Home > Get Involved, In the News, Preventable Diseases, Vaccine Advocacy > Take Action to Demand Federal Funding of Immunization Programs

Take Action to Demand Federal Funding of Immunization Programs

Right now, we need the voice of constituents to help support our nation’s immunization infrastructure.

317 CoalitionEvery Child By Two, as one of the founding members of the 317 Coalition, has been actively engaged with other leaders in the immunization community in advocating for federal appropriations to support our nation’s immunization infrastructure.  The focus of the 317 Coalition is to ensure that Congress adequately funds vaccine activities at the national, state and local levels.

However, as budgets continue to dwindle, legislators need to hear from constituents, like yourself, who agree that funding for vaccines is the most cost-effective health intervention known to mankind. That is why Every Child By Two is encouraging everyone to take action and contact your federal representatives in support of robust funding in the FY 2016 Labor-HHS-ED appropriations bill for the CDC’s Section 317 Immunization program. 

The majority of Section 317 program funds, over 75%, are used to support critical infrastructure functions such as vaccine effectiveness studies, disease surveillance, outbreak detection and response, vaccine coverage assessment, vaccine safety and provider education programming.  A smaller portion supports vaccine purchases for adult immunization programs that help to achieve high vaccination coverage, reduce health disparities among various populations, and provide underserved populations with vaccines to protect them from disease.  Quite simply, the mission of the coalition is to educate Members of Congress about the needs of the CDC immunization program, and not make or attempt to influence immunization policy.

Our nation was fortunate that the 317 program was funded at $611 million in FY 2015. Looking ahead, the House of Representatives has proposed to reduce funding of the program to $585.5 million in FY 2016, while the Senate maintains level funding at $611 million.  If the program were to be funded at the House’s proposed funding level, the reduction in funding of over $25 million would most certainly harm the immunization infrastructure, as well as reduce adult vaccine purchase functions in every state.

Therefore, we strongly encourage you to alert your representatives about the importance of 317 funding, and urge them to support the Senate’s FY 2016 funding level of $611 million.  

What you can do:

Contact your representatives in the House and Senate and tell them how important it is that they support the Senate’s proposed funding level of $611 million for the CDC’s 317 immunization program. 

You can find your representatives here, or by calling (202) 224-3121.  You’ll most likely be leaving a message with a staffer.  Let them know how critical it is to fully fund immunization infrastructure. If you have a specific concern about a state or local immunization issue (disease outbreak, low immunization rates, etc) then prepare a comment that addresses these concerns.

As an example, you could leave a message similar to this:

“Can you please let (name of Senator/Representative) know that as a constituent from (name of your town), I’m asking for (him/her) to support level funding for the CDC’s 317 program. It’s so important to know that my family and I have access to vaccines, especially with all the outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases that are occurring nationwide.”

Explore the 317 Coalition’s website to learn more about the 317 program, and this page to learn how much 317 funding your state receives.

Things to know/mention when talking to your state representatives:  

  • Ask for support of the Senate’s funding level of $611 million for the CDC’s 317 immunization program.
  • Indicate that vaccines are one of the greatest success stories in public health and are among the most cost-effective ways to prevent disease.  We know that for each dollar invested in the U.S. childhood immunization program, there are over ten dollars of societal savings and three dollars in direct medical savings.  Moreover, childhood immunizations over the past twenty years have prevented 322 million illnesses, 732,000 deaths, and nearly $1.4 trillion in societal costs.
  • 20-year-infographic2014 saw the largest number of cases of measles in the U.S. since the disease was eliminated in 2000, with over 644 reported cases across 27 states. CDC estimates that it can cost over $140,000 to contain each individual case of measles.
  • The 317 program serves as the key backbone for the national Vaccines for Children program to provide vaccine purchase funding for children, and it also supports the science that informs our national immunization policy, monitors the safety of vaccines and assists community education and outreach activities.
  • The 317 program also provides a safety net to uninsured, low-income adults for vaccine purchases.
  • The program conducts surveillance, laboratory testing and epidemiology to respond to disease outbreaks.  For example, during the 2015 measles outbreak, 317 funds supported local and state health departments in rapid response, public health communication, data gathering and diagnostics.

As always, we thank you for your support of Every Child By Two and the 317 Coalition, and we hope you will join us in advocating for critical issues facing our nation’s immunization programs.

  1. October 31, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    what we need is a vaccination to treat the ignorance of folks like you, and then one for you dam greed ! You people are very very sick and know nothing about real health…

    Like

  2. Nolan A
    October 31, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    No way! Why don’t we make it easier to have access to real food and nutrition. That’s where REAL health comes from. Not from all these man made vaccines which are full of toxic chemicals. Other countries around the world are starting to question the safety & efficacy of all these shots and, yet, we’re mandating them. We are so far behind when it comes to health.

    Like

  3. G.D.
    October 31, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    Must be another *astroturfer*. They are all over the internet. Astroturfing is the attempt to create an impression of widespread grassroots support for a policy, individual, or product, where little such support exists. Multiple online identities and fake pressure groups are used to mislead the public into believing that the position of the astroturfer is the commonly held view.

    Some big companies now use sophisticated “persona management software” to create armies of virtual astroturfers, complete with fake IP addresses, non-political interests and online histories. Authentic-looking profiles are generated automatically and developed for months or years before being brought into use for a political or corporate campaign. As the software improves, these astroturf armies will become increasingly difficult to spot, and the future of open debate online could become increasingly perilous.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/08/what-is-astroturfing

    Like

  4. Mary Pulles Cavanaugh
    October 31, 2015 at 7:17 pm

    It is a travesty that you are asking for public dollars to cause 55% of the population harm. There have been over 3 BILLION DOLLARS paid out in the VACCINE INJURY CLAIMS COURT!!! Please examine your conscience.

    Like

  5. Michele
    October 31, 2015 at 8:35 pm

    Parents need to read the actual vaccine insert, not the general adverse reaction stuff the doctor hands out. Read section 13.1!! Most Vaccine Inserts state they have not been studied for ” carcinogenic, mutagenic or teratogenic potential, or its potential to impair fertility”.

    Like

  6. Raven
    October 31, 2015 at 9:17 pm

    Um. Measles was never eliminated in the US. It is no longer considered endemic, since all of the cases that have originated in the US since 2000 were caused by the live virus vaccine. There is a difference.

    Like

  7. Caroline
    November 1, 2015 at 12:58 am

    There ought to be a vaccine moratorium until the #cdcwhistleblower, Dr. William Thompson is subpoena. Parents deserve to know the truth about the MMR-autism study that was intentionally destroyed by top CDC scientists. CDC claims vaccines do not cause autism YET the CDC and doctors cannot explain why more 1 in 50 kids, 1 in 31 boys has autism. This is an epidemic that no one is talking about. Who will care for these kids when they become adults and their parents have passed away?

    Like

  8. G.D.
    November 1, 2015 at 3:27 am

    The annual cost of caring for Americans with autism might reach $500 billion by 2025, a new study estimates, with outside estimates approaching $1 trillion. But instead of worrying about that, they’re worried about measles. Totally insane.
    http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20150729/autism-care-costs-could-hit-500-billion-by-2025-study

    Like

  9. Chris
    November 1, 2015 at 11:00 am

    Raven: “It is no longer considered endemic, since all of the cases that have originated in the US since 2000 were caused by the live virus vaccine.”

    Citation needed from a primary source, Natural News does not count.

    Everyone else, to be taken seriously please provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that any vaccine the present American pediatric schedule causes more harm than the disease.

    Like

  10. Nanya
    November 1, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    Focus on nutrition, hygiene & clean water supply stop treating vaccines like the one-size-fits-all silver bullets THEY ARE NOT!!

    Like

  11. CS Odenwald
    November 1, 2015 at 1:22 pm

    I have two questions and a comment about this:
    “The majority of Section 317 program funds, over 75%, are used to support critical infrastructure functions such as vaccine effectiveness studies, disease surveillance, outbreak detection and response, vaccine coverage assessment, vaccine safety and provider education programming.”

    First question: where do the other 25% of “Section 317 program funds” go?

    Second question: why is there no mention of vaccine safety studies nor the long-promised study of the recommended schedule/combinations of vaccines?

    My comment: “vaccine safety and provider education programming” sounds a whole lot like “reeducation.” (Google “reeducation” and you find entries about American Indian boarding schools, Vietnam, post WWI Germany, and China.)

    Like

  12. Pam
    November 1, 2015 at 2:11 pm

    I believe most people have access to vaccines and no longer want them and the risks they have come to learn about and have seen or experienced first hand. I don’t think anyone wants their child or themselves to be labeled as just another coincidence of adverse reactions that become lifetime damaging or end in death. If vaccines were so good, there wouldn’t be an overwhelming need to advertise so massively on every street corner, on radio, on TV, in the movie theaters, on billboards, on mass transits, on websites…It is starting to make many more people question and wonder why, such hard pushy selling campaigns…?

    Like

  13. Pamela
    November 1, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    No federal funding, not with my tax money. Enough Parma welfare. Reverse the National Childhood Vaccine Safety Act while we’re at it. Let pharma stand on their own two financial feet. Were is corporate responsibility?

    Like

  14. Lawrence
    November 1, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    No, the vast majority of people are perfectly happy and satisfied with vaccines….it is only a small minority of uneducated people that spread lies and misinformation on vaccines.

    Like

  15. Chris
    November 1, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    Ms. Cavanaugh: “It is a travesty that you are asking for public dollars to cause 55% of the population harm.”

    Please post the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researcher to support this claim.

    “There have been over 3 BILLION DOLLARS paid out in the VACCINE INJURY CLAIMS COURT!!! ”

    Here is a little math problem for you: go to the VICP Compensation Table here and look at the last row. Take the total number of vaccines given (2,532,428,541), and divide that by the total number compensated claims (2,012). Please tell us what that number means.

    G.D.: “Must be another *astroturfer*.”

    Yes, that is exactly what you are your friends are doing, especially if you are using sock puppets, with all of your fact free claims.

    Pamela: “Let pharma stand on their own two financial feet.”

    So please tell us what brings in more dollars to the pharmaceutical companies: vaccines or treating diseases? Give us the financial analysis that says it is much cheaper to let every child in the USA to get measles and treat the one in ten to fifteen cases in the hospital (usually for pneumonia, which occurs in about one in five measles cases) than to give each child two MMR vaccines. Be sure that your analysis is able to prove the following paper wrong:
    J Infect Dis. 2004 May 1;189 Suppl 1:S131-45.
    An economic analysis of the current universal 2-dose measles-mumps-rubella vaccination program in the United States.

    Like

  16. G.D.
    November 1, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    “A 1% increase in vaccination was associated with an additional 680 children having autism or speech or language impairment. The results suggest that although mercury has been removed from many vaccines, other culprits may link vaccines to autism.”
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535/
    Aluminum, maybe?

    Like

  17. G.D.
    November 1, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    “it is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964337/

    Like

  18. G.D.
    November 1, 2015 at 8:37 pm

    “The application of the Hill’s criteria to these data indicates that the correlation between Al in vaccines and ASD [autism] may be causal. ”
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22099159/

    Like

  19. G.D.
    November 1, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    Vaccines Proven To Cause Sudden Death in Children – 67 Deaths Only Explicable As Caused By Vaccines – Drug Safety Regulators Had The Information for Over 2 Years And Let Children Die.

    “The clustering of deaths around the time of vaccination demonstrates a link between the vaccination and the sudden deaths. It indicates this is not by chance as otherwise the deaths would be spread across the entire 20 days. Rather than showing the total deaths each day, GlaxoSmithKline showed the cumulative figures which had the effect of disguising the clustering of deaths around vaccination. They did this by listing the cumulative number of deaths. So by day 19 after vaccination GSK’s total was 67 deaths. But there had only been two deaths in those last 10 days and not 67. In contrast 65 deaths occurred on the first day of vaccination up to the 10th day following vaccination.”
    https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/vaccines-proven-to-cause-sudden-death-in-children-67-deaths-only-explicable-as-caused-by-vaccines-drug-safety-regulators-had-the-information-for-over-2-years-and-let-children-die/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24004825#cm24004825_8656

    Like

  20. G.D.
    November 1, 2015 at 8:49 pm

    “The findings of subdural hematoma and retinal hemorrhages in infants, without any documented history of major trauma, do not always indicate child abuse. A combination of ascorbate [vitamin C] depletion and the injection of foreign proteins [i.e. from vaccines] can cause a very high blood histamine level, leading to capillary fragility and venular bleeding.”
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15050101
    (via the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health website).

    Like

  21. Chris
    November 1, 2015 at 9:51 pm

    Oh my. It seems G.D. does not understand what the words “qualified”, “reputable” and “hypotheses” mean. He also does not seem to understand that comments to a PubMed indexed paper are not actual studies.

    Here goes:

    J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2011;74(14):903-16. doi: 10.1080/15287394.2011.573736.
    A positive association found between autism prevalence and childhood vaccination uptake across the U.S. population.
    Delong G1.

    A finance professor is not qualified, as a former board member of SafeMinds she also has a serious conflict of interest, along with not being reputable. Especially when she think any child getting speech and language help in a school is autistic, which would really be interesting to my daughter’s hearing impaired friend. Perhaps because Prof. DeLong has never studied any science she does not know the difference between autism, dysarthria, hearing disorder, stuttering and a whole host of speech/language disorders.

    PLoS Med. 2010 Oct; 7(10): e1000355.
    Editors, Publishers, Impact Factors, and Reprint Income
    Harvey Marcovitch*

    Has nothing to do with vaccines, and it could explain why DeLong’s idiotic paper got published.

    A comment on “Hum Vaccin Immunother. 2014;10(1):129-37. doi: 10.4161/hv.26269. Epub 2013 Sep 4.” by Clifford Miller

    Clifford Miller is a lawyer, is neither qualified nor reputable.

    Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(4):533-6.
    Elevated blood histamine caused by vaccinations and Vitamin C deficiency may mimic the shaken baby syndrome.
    Clemetson CA1.

    It is in a non-peer reveiw journal with a bad reputation. Try looking up the definition of “hypothesis.” It is by a doctor who had retired over a decade before, who spent his retirement trying to get baby killers off the hook by demonizing vaccines, like Alan Yurko. That is truly disgusting, and the author is definitely not reputable.

    Like

  22. Gray Falcon
    November 1, 2015 at 9:55 pm

    Also, aluminum is the third most common element in the earth’s crust. If exposure to the tiny amount in a vaccine could harm someone, then we’d all be dead now.

    Like

  23. G.D.
    November 1, 2015 at 10:01 pm

    In 1943 the well known child psychiatrist, Leo Kanner, announced his discovery of eleven cases of a new mental disorder. He noted that “the condition differs markedly and uniquely from anything reported so far…”(1) This condition soon became known as autism. Kanner coined the phrase “refrigerator mother” to describe emotionally cold parents. For many years, this behavior in the family was considered to be one of the causes for autistic behavior in children. Not till the 1970s was this hypothesis rejected.

    The first autistic child diagnosed in Japan was in 1945. When the United States ended the war and occupied Japan, a mandatory vaccination program was established. Hundreds of new cases of autism were being diagnosed annually in Japanese children shortly thereafter. Case closed.

    Big Pharma is going to LOVE IT. They can’t wait. The annual cost of caring for Americans with autism might reach $500 billion by 2025, a new study estimates, with outside estimates approaching $1 trillion.
    http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20150729/autism-care-costs-could-hit-500-billion-by-2025-study

    Like

  24. Chris
    November 1, 2015 at 10:08 pm

    What Leo Kanners says has not bearing on what causes autism. In fact he was not the first to document autism like behaviors in children. So that is not actual factual evidence.

    Like

  25. G.D.
    November 1, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    Are you intentionally trying to destroy our children’s immune systems with vaccines? “This new Medical Textbook has just come out concerning vaccines. In light of the discovery of Autoimmune Syndrome Induced by Adjuvants, or ASIA, ‘Vaccines and Autoimmunity’ explores the role of adjuvants – specifically aluminum in different vaccines – and how they can induce diverse autoimmune clinical manifestations. Edited by leaders in the field, Vaccines and Autoimmunity is an invaluable resource for advanced students and researchers working in pathogenic and epidemiological studies.”
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1118663438/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d1_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=00JEPPACRQ0B0V58K4M1&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2253014322&pf_rd_i=desktop

    Like

  26. Chris
    November 1, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    That book is by authors who are not reputable.

    Like

  27. G.D.
    November 1, 2015 at 10:15 pm

    That’s just not true, Chris.

    Like

  28. Chris
    November 1, 2015 at 10:44 pm
  29. G.D.
    November 1, 2015 at 11:08 pm

    Now that’s a matter of opinion, Chris.

    Like

  30. Gray Falcon
    November 1, 2015 at 11:11 pm

    Insisting autism didn’t exist before Kanner documented it reminds me of an old chestnut:
    “Did you know Lavoisier discovered oxygen in the 1770’s?”
    “Golly! What did people breathe before then?”

    Like

  31. Chris
    November 1, 2015 at 11:29 pm

    G.D.: “Now that’s a matter of opinion.”

    Yes, taking funds from folks who are blatantly anti-vaccine is only a matter of opinion.

    Like

  32. Chris
    November 1, 2015 at 11:29 pm

    Gray Falcon, that is hilarious!

    Like

  33. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 12:13 am

    It’s pretty clear to me from what happened in Japan what causes autism. But I’m sure the pharmaceutical industry who has much to gain from autism would dispute that. They aren’t looking for the CAUSE to prevent it. Just ways to treat it.

    Like

  34. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 10:44 am

    G.D.: Sorry, but there’s also a financial incentive for keeping vaccine usage down:
    http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/02/08/Just-One-Case-Measles-Cost-More-10000

    I’m going to need evidence, not allegations.

    Like

  35. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 11:17 am

    G.D., what is quite clear about Japan is that you are making claims without any evidence, plus you seem to not know much about history.

    Like

  36. Cynthia Maurer
    November 2, 2015 at 11:44 am

    Vaccines kill! I will not condone my taxes paying to kill children!

    Like

  37. Cynthia
    November 2, 2015 at 11:48 am

    Wonderful idea, Pamela!

    Like

  38. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    Cynthia: Measles kills, mumps cripples, rubella causes stillbirths.

    Like

  39. Lawrence
    November 2, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    And autism – don’t forget that Rubella is linked to getting diagnosed with autism…..therefore the MMR prevents autism.

    Like

  40. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    Ms. Maurer: “Vaccines kill!”

    There is a family in Spain you may want to talk to.

    Please provide the PubMed indexed study by reputable qualified researchers (no lawyers, no computer scientists, no finance professors, etc) that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule causes more deaths than the diseases. Otherwise, we will just assume you are making things up.

    And why should tax dollars be used to treat children who get measles? The 1990 measles epidemic caused a great deal of cost to Medi-Cal, which is funded by California taxes: Pediatric hospital admissions for measles. Lessons from the 1990 epidemic.

    Like

  41. Pam
    November 2, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    So ludicrous to think of measles as a deadly disease and to equate tax payers dollars to them for treatment, I guess that must equate to Pharma welfare these days. Most baby boomers had measles and recall getting through it quite easily with just mom, I know that was the case for me as million of other babyboomers. As for my once HEALTHY baby daughter who was vaccinated with the DPT vaccine and the MMR, she was harmed forever and will never be independent. Talk to and listen to all the families about that, too many to soon and growing in number. Vaccines do kill everyday. It’s always about the money …isn’t it…?

    Like

  42. Lawrence
    November 2, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    Is that you, Ms. Parker?

    Like

  43. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 2:34 pm

    Pam, your anecdote is worthless. Especially since you are making claims without any evidence.

    Like

  44. Lawrence
    November 2, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    And to say that Measles isn’t a deadly disease ignores that fact that even in developed countries, like the US, 1 in 1000 people who contract the disease will die…..

    Are you really that ignorant?

    Like

  45. APhoenix
    November 2, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    We do NOT need more vaccines, or more vaccine infrastructure. Communicable disease is NOT the problem in this nation. The huse rise in neurological, allergic and autoimmune diseases resulting in lifelong disability is the huge issue, and has risen hand in hand with the number of vaccines. We demand true unbiased vaccinated vs unvaccinated science immediately! We need multiple vaccines administered at the same time studied immediately vs saline placebo. We need to stop dismissing parental reports of vaccine harm as coincidence. We need to get safety studies out of manufacturers’ hands and out of the hands of agencies with revolving doors to said manufacturers (CDC and FDA… looking at you, corrupt to the core). We need to immediately restore liability for vaccine injuries to those who manufacture, mandate and inject vaccines instead of continuing to allow them to get away with no consequences for harming people. We need to value the lives of our children instead of treating them as pincushion for profit. Vaccine Injured Lives Matter!

    Like

  46. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    Yes, vaccines do kill. And sacrificing babies with vaccines just doesn’t work for me. It’s like a
    sick cult.

    Like

  47. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    “Communicable disease is NOT the problem in this nation.”

    The reason for that is that most people are responsible and vaccinate.

    “We demand true unbiased vaccinated vs unvaccinated science immediately!”

    Then go do it. APhoenix, design that study, make sure it complies with the Belmont Report, get it approved by a real independent review board, then write a grant to fund it. Send that fund to places like SafeMinds, The Dwoskin Family Foundation, Generation Rescue, Autism Speaks, etc to get it funded. Then go do it.

    Like

  48. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    G.D. “Yes, vaccines do kill.”

    Please provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that show any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule has caused more deaths than the disease. Last year influenza killed 147 children, so that is the level of death from vaccine you need to exceed.

    Like

  49. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    APheonix, G.D.: Do you know what polio is?

    Like

  50. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    Pamela (Ms. Parker?): “Reverse the National Childhood Vaccine Safety Act while we’re at it.”

    There is an interesting discussion elsewhere about the expectations fro the VICP. Two quotes:

    “Wait, these bozos basically want a system in which anyone can walk in and say “I was injured by something, give me cash?””

    and: “Exactly. In fact, Barbara Loe Fisher, who did more than anyone else to get the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program was livid when she realised it wouldn’t be like that.”

    The audacity of folks like you who think that your little anecdote is all that is needed to get taxpayer money. Especially when we have stories like Ms. Parker who claimed her child and encephalitis, but she never bothered to call 911 nor even get a diagnosis from a doctor. It is all because she said so.

    In short: don’t expect government handouts just because you have a story. Just like here, in order to be taken seriously you need to provide actual evidence.

    Like

  51. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    Killing even one child with a vaccine is just not acceptable. No child should have to endure this sacrifice of their whole life. Let’s look at the LIE of Vaccination – All in Plain Sight.
    Vaccines are said to prevent disease. The proof that vaccinations prevent disease “they say” is because vaccination aids in antibody production. If antibodies are present after vaccination, “they say” immunity is guaranteed. So a vaccine is not stamped “effective” because it was tested on people to prove vaccinated people are more immune to actual disease. A vaccine is stamped “effective” if you develop a change in your blood “they” call antibody production. So vaccines are “effective” based on antibody production and not because the vaccine was tested to actually decrease the incidence of disease.

    Is that so? So how do you explain this? A 99% vaccination rate for measles in a private school of over 1000 students and 93% testing positive for measles antibody production specific to the vaccine…….AND a FULL BLOWN measles outbreak.

    How do you explain it? Well, it’s easy to explain because vaccination is myth and fable not truth and reality. What caused the measles outbreak? The vaccine did of course and that’s what the average person isn’t understanding. Vaccination is a disease that’s masquerading as its’ own cure. The more sick a vaccinated person gets, the more vaccines the immoral system promotes, when the entire time it’s the vaccines causing the outbreaks and large increases of disease in general, because of these eugenic weapons of mass destruction. Face reality or live the illusion, either way your own government and conventional medicine are pumping poison into child and adult alike.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3821823

    Like

  52. Dublin
    November 2, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    @lawrence
    “And autism – don’t forget that Rubella is linked to getting diagnosed with autism…..therefore the MMR prevents autism.”

    The funniest comment I have ever read!! Thank you. You obviously don’t know what caused autism. Talk about ignorance.

    Like

  53. Dublin
    November 2, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    @chris
    “Please provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that show any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule has caused more deaths than the disease. ”

    It’s not just about deaths. It’s also about all of the injuries.

    Please, tell me how many have died from Measles in the US in the last couple of decades?

    Like

  54. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 4:16 pm

    When some resist the proven idea that vaccinations are dangerous, unhealthy and ineffective, what they’re really saying is this.

    “I was told that I was smart for repeating what my handlers told me was the truth. If I accept that what I was told isn’t true, it means the part of me that believes I’m smart, for repeating what ever I’m told without question or resistance, not only has to die a sudden death, I may even have to acquire real knowledge through research, effort and action.

    So I have a choice here. I can keep repeating and have the ruling families tell me exactly what to do in a day and exactly what to think or I can take my already busy day and add extra work to it, in a life where I already don’t have enough time to think as it is. I understand the point on its’ surface, that injecting poisons into children, is illogical…..but I was taught that these sort of things were beyond my comprehension. Sure lots of kids are sick and damaged in our society and if what you say is true, it means that our authority figures are literally trying to damage and kill children with these toxic injections. That’s pretty hard to think about, even though I see it might be true, as the evidence is all right there.

    I was taught that believing in some sort of magic that makes poisons healthy when they’re injected into my children, by accredited health professionals, is all part of the illusion and magic based package, which helps my day flow a little bit easier. Sure it doesn’t make any sense that poisoning children can make them healthier. I get that but who am I to think logically when I’ve always been taught that doctor knows best. I’ve been repeating what I’m told for so long, I think I forget how to connect the dots anymore. I’m good at remembering the dots and repeating the dots but I get very uncomfortable with connecting the dots. Yes, I see that no one who goes to the doctor is healthy so yes, I often wonder what they’re experts in, if no one who visits them becomes healthy but that’s the problem. How do I have time to process all this, when I’m taxed into poverty to pay for this poison, cut and burn medical system in the first place? You would have to assume that someone else would be taking care of this problem, like the government but then again it’s the government who’s injecting everyone with poison. You obviously understand my confusion and this confusion has paralyzed me from taking action but that’s the point maybe. See I’m confused all over again.

    I also feel safer in the crowd because look at how anyone’s treated when they actually do the research and find out that vaccines aren’t safe or effective. Look what happens to those people, who step away from the herd. The lie is so safe. If my child is healthy and unvaccinated, I get attacked. If my child is unhealthy and vaccinated, my child is celebrated and drowned in attention. The lie is so comfortable and secure, as opposed to actually researching, finding out that injecting poisons into children isn’t logical and then stepping outside the crowd in order to protect the child. The crowd is where all the safety and security can be found and I need safety and security to feel safe and secure in this highly bizarre world.

    Everything taken into consideration, I’m going to just poison my kids because it’s easier, safer, more secure and makes my day flow with less conflict and friction. I wish I could do better for my children and myself but I literally need the additional safety and security of running with the crowd, to maintain the illusions that keeps me favored inside our shallow, self serving and satanic society. When it comes down to me getting a shallow benefit or stroked in some way by the people who want me to poison my child, I’m going with “me” because in our society, the person who only thinks of themselves is obviously honored, celebrated and rewarded.. and the people who actually protect their children, are cast aside, attacked and ostracized. When it comes down to protecting me or my kids, I’m voting to protect myself. I’m making the vaccine decision based on how it effects me, not the kids. I won’t tell anyone that out loud of course because that sounds pretty crazy and self serving but I’m just going to lie to myself about why I’ve made this decision, because in a room full of liars, one more lie isn’t going to matter or even stand out,”

    May the children forgive us for favoring the fabricated illusion and ignoring reality.

    Like

  55. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    The reason for the outbreak is that one MMR vaccine confers 95% immunity. That leaves in a school with almost two thousand students a certain number who did not get immunity from measles, as it says (did you read it, or is it just a link from a website): “Only 4.1 percent of these students (74 of 1806) lacked detectable antibody to measles …”

    It also said: “After the survey, none of the 1732 seropositive students contracted measles.”

    So 74 students were susceptible to measles, and yet only fourteen actually got measles. So much for that “FULL BLOWN measles outbreak.”

    Then there is this sentence: “Stratified analysis showed that the number of doses of vaccine received was the most important predictor of antibody response.”

    It was due to outbreaks like this, and the 1990 measles epidemic that a second MMR dose was added to the schedule. The second dose gives 99% immunity, which is important with a disease as infectious as measles. At first the second dose was for entry into middle school, but then that was changed to entry to kindergarten.

    I suggest next time you post a citation, that you actually read it. Now where is the evidence that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule kills at least 147 children per year?

    Like

  56. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 4:22 pm

    “A history of prior vaccination is not always associated with immunity nor with the presence of specific antibodies.”
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3168353
    Let that sink in for a minute.

    Like

  57. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    Dublin: “Please, tell me how many have died from Measles in the US in the last couple of decades?”

    A few, several from SSPE: “Some are acute deaths caused by measles, measles encephalitis or measles pneumonia, for a total of 10 deaths during the 2000-2012 period. But there were also 32 deaths from subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (a relatively rare complication of measles that occurs after a patient seemingly recovers from the disease without any other problems; SSPE can manifest anywhere from weeks to years after primary measles infection, causing a slow, agonizing death) during that same period.”

    Remember, the reason there are few measles deaths is because of the MMR. We do not want to repeat the almost 200 deaths from the 1990 measles epidemic:
    J Infect Dis. 2004 May 1;189 Suppl 1:S69-77.
    Acute measles mortality in the United States, 1987-2002.

    Like

  58. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    “Most data collected by CDC is contained in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database. The VAERS is generally thought to contain only 3 to 5 percent of reportable incidents. This is simply because only some immediate reactions are reported by doctors; but many are not admitted to be reactions to the vaccine. Most importantly, the VAERS numbers are only immediate reactions, which would take place within a few hours to a few weeks. Long-term vaccine-induced diseases and disorders are not recognized by parents or doctors when these conditions develop perhaps a few months to five years or more and would never be realized to come from multiple vaccinations. In other words, many children and adults have diseases and disorders that are vaccine induced and they never suspect they are from the vaccines.”

    Like

  59. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    G.D.: “Clin Invest Med. 1988 Aug;11(4):304-9.
    An evaluation of measles serodiagnosis during an outbreak in a vaccinated community.”

    Still only 67 people, they do not give a very important number: the total population. It is too tiny. And again, one of the reasons for the second MMR vaccine.

    So where is the evidence that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule kills at least 147 children each year in the USA?

    Like

  60. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    According to historical records, smallpox burned itself out when people quit tossing feces into the streets (pre-indoor plumbing) and started isolating the sick. The smallpox vaccine was banned because it spread the disease. Clean water, improved sanitation, hygiene, nutrition, refrigeration, transportation and access to medical care caused a 90% drop in infectious disease mortality in the decades prior to vaccines.
    http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/history.html

    Like

  61. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    G.D.: “Clin Invest Med. 1988 Aug;11(4):304-9.
    An evaluation of measles serodiagnosis during an outbreak in a vaccinated community.”

    By the way, Manitoba is not an American state. Try to keep it where the vaccine and schedule is the same as the USA, like actual American statistics.

    Like

  62. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 4:30 pm

    The vaccinated become a mutated virus factory. A two-year-old boy who developed a serious reaction to his father’s smallpox vaccination has recovered but disease detectives found infectious virus all over his house…
    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSN1744524120070518?irpc=932

    Like

  63. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    G.D.: “According to historical records, smallpox burned itself out when people quit ”

    Smallpox is not on the present American pediatric schedule. So where is the evidence that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule kills at least 147 children each year in the USA?

    Mortality is not how you measure vaccine efficacy, it is morbidity. Please find a dictionary to learn the difference between the terms.

    Like

  64. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 4:36 pm

    G.D.: “A two-year-old boy who developed a serious reaction to his father’s smallpox vaccination…”

    Because his military father did not follow post-vaccination rules. Again, smallpox has not been on the American pediatric schedule for over forty years. Where is the evidence that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule kills at least 147 children each year in the USA?

    Like

  65. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 4:37 pm

    The MMR Vaccine has co-infected an entire generation of children with a more virulent strain of Measles, now referred to as Atypical Measles Syndrome (AMS). The Medical Industry has reluctantly confirmed this vaccine-derived mutation circulating throughout the environment.

    The Vaccine Industry doesn’t want you to know that vaccines cause the very signature disease/disorder they claim to protect you against; albeit a more virulent “transforming” strain of the primary pathogen.

    “… the measles vaccine is a live-virus vaccine, and individuals can potentially get the disease from the vaccine as well as shed the virus. Vaccine-strain attenuated live viruses can replicate and revert back into virulent form (which is why they don’t vaccinate immunocompromised individuals) or recombine with other viruses to create novel virulent strains. This means that individuals who have received a live-virus vaccine can potentially catch the disease, as well as transmit the virus to others. This is why the live oral poliovirus vaccine was withdrawn from the market in the US, for example; every single domestic case of polio since 1979 was caused by the vaccine.”
    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2015/07/05/a-measles-death-vaccines-and-the-medias-failure-to-inform/

    Like

  66. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 4:38 pm

    Do you remember that woman they claimed died due to pneumonia linked to measles? She was not among the unvaccinated. On the contrary, she not only had been vaccinated, but reportedly was tested and found to have a protective antibody titer. She nevertheless became infected with measles while seeking medical attention in a clinic. She died from pneumonia, which can be caused by any number of other bacterial or viral infections besides measles, including the common cold and flu. The reason her immune system couldn’t handle the infection was because doctors had her on immunosuppressive drugs. Hence, medical intervention was a contributing factor in her death.

    Like

  67. Dublin
    November 2, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    @Chris
    A pro vax website? That is your reference? Seriously? Doesn’t look like you would accept this type of reference from someone else, why would you expect anybody to accept yours?

    The answer is, it is very rare for somebody to die from measles here in the US, and if they do it is usually because of some other health issue.

    Now tell me how many die or are injured from the MMR vaccine?

    So now, please tell me again how the vaccine is safer than than the disease?

    Answer: The vaccine is NOT worth the risk of injury or death. Period.

    Like

  68. Dublin
    November 2, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    Agreed GD.

    Like

  69. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    Jeremy R. Hammond is not a qualified medical researcher. There is a difference between the OPV and MMR, which he clearly does not understand. It is also using the lie of equating mortality with morbidity.

    You made a claim about vaccines causing death, where is the evidence that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule causes at least 147 children to die in the USA each year?

    Like

  70. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    Dublin: “A pro vax website? ”

    Follow the links, like this one: http://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html . I linked to it because it was a decent summary.

    “Now tell me how many die or are injured from the MMR vaccine?”

    Okay, you tell me. From what I can tell, not very many according to these statistics, very few, and definitely much fewer over almost thirty years compared to those killed during the 1990 measles epidemic.

    Like

  71. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    Fritz ter Meer, found guilty of slavery and mass murder at Auschwitz, served only seven years in prison and became Chairman of the Board at Bayer in 1956. Still trust U.S. vaccines?

    Carl Krauch, Executive Member of IG Farben and Head of Military Economics for Hitler, found guilty of slavery and mass murder, served just 6 years in prison, then became Chairman of the Board for BASF in 1952. Still want to get those flu shots? How about that HPV shot for your daughter or son?

    This is the same vaccine industry today which protected and employed Nazi war criminals. The very industry that produced the Nazi gas chambers was purchased by Bayer. So, exactly whom are you trusting with your children’s health and welfare?

    Currently, the U.S. Government and the CDC rely solely on the manufacturers of vaccines to report problems, injuries and deaths. This is like letting murderers be their own judges in court. Vaccines have economic and political agendas now, and the FDA does absolutely no testing of their own before making decisions to release vaccines to the masses.
    Today’s vaccines not only contain live versions of the diseases you DO NOT WANT, but also contain GMOs, hormones from infected cows, pigs, chickens and monkeys, untested virus combinations (like H1N1), aluminum, mercury, emulsifiers, and crossbred bacteria from animals, mosquitoes, and diseased humans:
    http://yournewswire.com/nazi-mass-murderer-became-chairman-at-vaccine-drug-company-in-1950s/

    Like

  72. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    “Exclusive: The Spanish Influenza Epidemic Of 1918 Was Caused By Vaccinations”

    I heard that seven men dropped dead in a doctor’s office after being vaccinated. This was in an army camp, so I wrote to the Government for verification. They sent me the report of U.S. Secretary of War, Henry L. Stimson. The report not only verified the report of the seven who dropped dead from the vaccines, but it stated that there had been 63 deaths and 28,585 cases of hepatitis as a direct result of the yellow fever vaccine during only 6 months of the war. That was only one of the 14 to 25 shots given the soldiers. We can imagine the damage that all these shots did to the men. (See the chapter on What Vaccinations Did to Our Soldiers.)

    The first World War was of a short duration, so the vaccine makers were unable to use up all their vaccines. As they were (and still are) in business for profit, they decided to sell it to the rest of the population. So they drummed up the largest vaccination campaign in U.S. history. There were no epidemics to justify it so they used other tricks. Their propaganda claimed the soldiers were coming home from foreign countries with all kinds of diseases and that everyone must have all the shots on the market.

    The people believed them because, first of all, they wanted to believe their doctors, and second, the returning soldiers certainly had been sick. They didn’t know it was from doctor-made vaccine diseases, as the army doctors don’t tell them things like that. Many of the returned soldiers were disabled for life by these drug-induced diseases. Many were insane from postvaccinal encephalitis, but the doctors called it shell shock, even though many had never left American soil.
    http://www.getholistichealth.com/37731/exclusive-the-spanish-influenza-epidemic-of-1918-was-caused-by-vaccinations/

    Like

  73. Dublin
    November 2, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    @chris
    I think you are off on the amount and injuries and deaths caused by the MMR vaccine https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/data

    Like

  74. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    Where is the evidence that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule kills at least 147 children each year in the USA?

    G.D, Germany is not part of the USA, and this is 2015 not 1918.

    Dublin: Why does https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index contain these words: “Please read the following statement on the limits of VAERS data. You MUST click on the box below to access the VAERS database”? In the future just provide verified data, not random raw data.

    Like

  75. Lawrence
    November 2, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    Oh holy hell, we’ve got an infestation of the most odious kind of trolls – ones that get their information from Whale.to….

    Like

  76. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 5:13 pm

    That explains bringing up things that happened decades ago. Apparently he does not understand what “morbidity”, “mortality” nor “present” mean.

    Like

  77. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    One death as a result of vaccines is too many!! One injury as a result of vaccines to an infant is too many!! And all you have is a fanatical religious cult!! I’m just not a member of your cult and have no desire to be. Sacrificing children’s lives and health with vaccines just doesn’t appeal to me. Sorry. It’s just not going to work. It’s not for me.

    Like

  78. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    G.D. If a thousand lives were lost to a disease to prevent one death from a vaccine, would that be acceptable to you?

    Like

  79. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    No, it wouldn’t be acceptable because vaccines can be made safer if they wanted to make them safer. There is absolutely no incentive to make them safer because vaccine manufacturers cannot be sued even when the vaccines are made without defects. And the Supreme Court has ruled that vaccines are “unavoidable unsafe”. If vaccines are going to mandated for everyone, they need to make them safe for EVERYONE! Period.

    Like

  80. Lawrence
    November 2, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    Car seats and seat belts both injure and kill every single year, but they also save countless lives….and they are not only mandated, but it against the law not to use one.

    Vaccines are still a choice – one needs never get one, if they don’t want – but that choice also has consequences.

    You don’t like being held accountable, I guess.

    And yes, vaccines are always being made safer – which is why we don’t use old versions anymore.

    Like

  81. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    G.D: If somebody burned down a school with your children in it to possibly save one life, would you accept it?

    Also, there is always a chance that your children will choke to death, so would it be safer not to feed them?

    Like

  82. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 5:39 pm

    I had the measles before a vaccine was ever created and now have lifetime immunity to it. It wasn’t the dreaded disease the vaccine industry describes in America. Pregnant mothers didn’t fear it as they had had the measles in childhood and had lifetime immunity to it. It was about like having a common cold for me for about a week. And it was standard procedure for physicians to recommend Vitamin A whether you were deficient in it, or not, to prevent the risk of complications such as pneumonia or blindness. It wasn’t uncommon for a neighborhood to have measles parties during the summer months so fewer children missed school with it during the school year. That’s how serious the measles really was in the USA. If anyone ever died from it, it never even made the news. It wasn’t newsworthy.

    Do you remember that woman they claimed died due to pneumonia linked to measles? She was not among the unvaccinated. On the contrary, she not only had been vaccinated, but reportedly was tested and found to have a protective antibody titer. She nevertheless became infected with measles while seeking medical attention in a clinic. She died from pneumonia, which can be caused by any number of other bacterial or viral infections besides measles, including the common cold and flu. The reason her immune system couldn’t handle the infection was because doctors had her on immunosuppressive drugs. Hence, medical intervention was a contributing factor in her death.

    Like

  83. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    G.D.: [citation needed]

    Like

  84. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 5:47 pm

    Gray Falcon, if you need a citation for a quote, plug that quote into your search engine and find the source that suits you. It’s not hard to do your on search. Research much??

    Like

  85. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    G.D: “One death as a result of vaccines is too many!”

    But you are okay with influenza killing over a hundred kids per year in the USA. Why is that? You don’t seem to be bothered that measles causes pneumonia in one in twenty cases (correcting an earlier mistake) and deaths like this:
    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-measles-sspe-20150624-story.html

    G.D.: “No, it wouldn’t be acceptable because vaccines can be made safer if they wanted to make them safer.”

    Which has happened, and continues to happen. This is why the rubella strain in the American MMR vaccine was replaced in 1978, the earlier version caused issues. Your claim is incredibly hilarious after you brought up vaccines that have not been used for decades.

    Anyway, you made a claim that vaccines kill. You have yet to provide evidence that any vaccine on the present (2015, not 1918) American (not Canada, UK or Japan) pediatric (not adult military personnel) schedule kills as many children has influenza did last year (147 deaths).

    Like

  86. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 5:52 pm

    G.D.: “I had the measles before a vaccine was ever created and now have lifetime immunity to it.”

    So what? Why can’t Olivia Dahl say the same, nor the little boy in the article I linked to?

    So where is the evidence that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule causes in the USA at least 147 kid death per year?

    Like

  87. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 5:52 pm

    I noticed physicians just don’t recommend Vitamin A or any other nutrients to prevent complications of the measles, flu, or any other disease anymore. That’s just pitiful.

    Like

  88. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    G.D.: “I noticed physicians just don’t recommend Vitamin A or any other nutrients to prevent complications of the measles, flu, or any other disease anymore.”

    Because it only works for measles, it is only a problem if a child is malnourished (not much a problem in the USA), and it is better to prevent any disease compared to treating them. The point is to not let kids get sick in the first place.

    Like

  89. Dublin
    November 2, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    @Gray Falcon

    “G.D. If a thousand lives were lost to a disease to prevent one death from a vaccine, would that be acceptable to you?”

    What disease in the US is going to kill 1000 people this year? None. Heck, if 5 people get a disease they call it an epidemic.

    Vaccines do not work very well and they are not worth the risk of injury now, or later on down the road.

    Vaccines are NOT responsible for the decline of diseases.

    Like

  90. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    Doctor discovers that allergies and anaphylactic shock never existed in children before vaccination. The words allergy and anaphylaxis were created to describe vaccine injury.
    http://www.smartvax.com/?option=com_content&view=article&id=90

    Like

  91. Dublin
    November 2, 2015 at 5:57 pm

    @Gray Falcon

    I don’t think any of us appreciate comments like this, “G.D: If somebody burned down a school with your children in it to possibly save one life, would you accept it?”

    Please refrain from these types of statements, they are not necessary to make your point.

    Like

  92. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 5:57 pm

    G.D.: I spend 99.9% my time on the Internet reading people other than you. You want me to believe you, you had better be willing to work for it.

    Like

  93. Dublin
    November 2, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    9 year old girl paralyzed by the flu vaccine. This could be you or your kid or your Grandkid. This is NOT a rare reaction.

    http://theflushotsite.com/index.php/2015/11/01/flu-shot-leaves-girl-paralyzed/?utm_source=CCNewsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=FluShotParalyzedGirl

    According to the Doctor in this video, flu vaccine injuries are very rare. If they are so rare, why does this ONE single law firm represent so many with flu vaccine injuries? Scroll down to see all of the injuries caused by different types of flu vaccines.
    http://www.mctlawyers.com/vaccine-injury/cases/

    Like

  94. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 6:00 pm

    Dublin: Actually, they are. You need to understand that decisions have consequences, sometimes deadly ones. I need to be drastic because otherwise, you simply brush me off.

    Like

  95. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 6:00 pm

    Gray Falcon, I’m not interested in what you believe. What counts is what I believe.

    Like

  96. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    “This study suggests that vitamin D(3) supplementation during the winter may reduce the incidence of influenza A, especially in specific subgroups of schoolchildren.”
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20219962
    But it’s never mentioned by physicians. Odd isn’t it??

    Like

  97. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 6:11 pm

    Don’t over-vaccinate your pets either. It causes immune disorders. “If your pet is sufficiently immune, giving them a vaccine doesn’t make them more immune. It could be harmful to the body,” said Mahaney. He’ll be sick FOREVER. I would think this would apply to humans as well.
    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/Needless-Vaccinations-Could-Cost-You-and-Your-Pet-326530921.html

    Like

  98. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    “U.S. has highest first-day infant mortality out of industrialized world, group reports.”
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-has-highest-first-day-infant-mortality-out-of-industrialized-world-group-reports/
    Wouldn’t have anything to do with all those vaccines, would it??

    Like

  99. Dublin
    November 2, 2015 at 6:25 pm

    @Gray Falcon

    “Dublin: Actually, they are. You need to understand that decisions have consequences, sometimes deadly ones. I need to be drastic because otherwise, you simply brush me off.”

    I know decisions have consequences. I made a decision to vaccinate my daughter and she was injured. We had been spreading the vaccines out and after she turned two we thought she might be ready for them so we caught her up with a few vaccines all at once.

    This is the worst consequence to the worst decision I have ever made. You can’t go back, but I can let others know what happened to my daughter.

    Like

  100. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    G.D.: What you or I believe doesn’t matter. All that matters is the physical evidence. Also, our country has a terrible health care system compared to Europe. That’s why we have such a high infant mortality rate.

    Dublin: What makes you so sure it was the vaccine? Thousands of parents over the centuries have attributed their children’s afflictions on demons, witches, and fairies. Why should we just accept your word on it.

    Like

  101. Dublin
    November 2, 2015 at 7:11 pm

    Please don’t insult me Gray Falcon.

    Like

  102. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    If you take the time to do the research on vaccines and the history of them, Gray Falcon, you realize the problem is with the vaccines. There’s pro’s and con’s with everything you buy and every drug you take. And vaccines are no magic bullet. But clearly, you’re promoting them.

    Like

  103. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 7:25 pm

    Dublin: I’ll show you respect when you prove yourself worthy of respect.

    G.D.: I already did the research, from people who aren’t profiting from vaccines, whether through acceptance or rejection. Many of your sources have a financial interest.

    Like

  104. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    Autism will be worth $500 BILLION to one TRILLION dollars by 2025 to the pharmaceutical industry. And that is incentive enough to hide the true cause of it.

    Like

  105. Lawrence
    November 2, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    And what if you are wrong G.D. – what if autism is truly genetic & autism has nothing to do with it? What would you say to the parents of children who died from vaccine preventable diseases, because they decided not to vaccinate because of incorrect information.

    Like

  106. everychildbytwo
    November 2, 2015 at 8:13 pm

    @Raven … Measles was declared eliminated from the U.S. In 2000. This is not the same as eradication …..http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html

    A: Measles elimination is defined as the absence of continuous disease transmission for 12 months or more in a specific geographic area. Measles is no longer endemic (constantly present) in the United States.

    Like

  107. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 8:19 pm

    By 1955, deaths from measles had already dropped to three people in ten MILLION. You were more likely to be struck by lightening in the USA than die of the measles before a vaccine was ever created. I am sick and tired of all the fear mongering over the measles in this country simply because a vaccine was created. Physicians will operate on you (surgery) if your chances of dying are one percent, or less. It’s time to put things into perspective and just stop all the fear mongering.

    Like

  108. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    Meanwhile, one often overlooked in annual mortality statistics: Preventable medical errors persist as the No. 3 killer in the U.S. – third only to heart disease and cancer – claiming the lives of some 400,000 people each year. But they’re MORE concerned about measles…

    Like

  109. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    “You were more likely to be struck by lightening in the USA than die of the measles before a vaccine was ever created.”

    So, the average of 500 deaths per year during the 1950s is acceptable to you? And the thousands more who became permanently disabled with blindness, deafness, and other neurological problems is okay with you? You are fine with over a hundred American kids dying each year from influenza. Yet one vaccine death is too much. Wow.

    Here are some measles numbers from the CDC Pink Book Appendix E, which show the difference in fifty years:

    Measles:
    Year_Cases_Deaths__Year___Cases____Deaths
    2000____86___ 1____1950__319124____468
    2001___116___ 1____1951__530118____683
    2002____44___ 0____1952__683077____618
    2003____56___ 1____1953__449146____462
    2004____37___ 0____1954__682720____518
    2005____66___ 1____1955__555156____345
    2006____55___ 0____1956__611936____530
    Total__460____4_________3831277___3624

    Why do you want to go back to the 1950s? Why do you think it is better to treat a disease instead of prevent it?

    You seem to obsessed with death numbers, what about incidence? The following are US Census data of measles morbidity during the 20th century. Please tell us why incidence in the USA dropped 90% between 1960 and 1970. Do not mention deaths. Do not mention any other decade. Do not mention any other disease. Do not mention any other country (as noted before Japan, Canada, England and Wales are not American states).

    From http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf
    Year…. Rate per 100000 of measles
    1912 . . . 310.0
    1920 . . . 480.5
    1925 . . . 194.3
    1930 . . . 340.8
    1935 . . . 584.6
    1940 . . . 220.7
    1945 . . . 110.2
    1950 . . . 210.1
    1955 . . . 337.9
    1960 . . . 245.4
    1965 . . . 135.1
    1970 . . . . 23.2
    1975 . . . . 11.3
    1980 . . . . . 5.9
    1985 . . . . . 1.2
    1990 . . . . .11.2
    1991 . . . . . .3.8
    1992 . . . . . .0.9
    1993 . . . . . .0.1
    1994 . . . . . .0.4
    1995 . . . . . .0.1
    1996 . . . . . .0.2
    1997 . . . . . . 0.1

    Like

  110. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    Chris, you don’t seem to understand “vaccine failure” at all. People who have been vaccinated against the flu, measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc. are STILL getting these diseases.

    Like

  111. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 8:34 pm

    G.D.: ” claiming the lives of some 400,000 people each year. But they’re MORE concerned about measles…”

    Actually you are obsessing about measles. You really don’t care about kids who get measles, influenza, meningitis from Hib, babies who die from pertussis or have autism because of Congenital Rubella Syndrome.

    Now please post the verifiable evidence that a vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule causes the death of at least 147 American children each year.

    Like

  112. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    Well just ignore 400,000 deaths a year caused by the medical and pharmaceutical industry. That’s just irrelevant I see. You know they have nothing to brag about. I’m not about to listen to them.

    “it is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964337/

    Like

  113. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    G.D.: “People who have been vaccinated against the flu, measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc. are STILL getting these diseases.”

    Nirvana Fallacy. No, the vaccines are not perfect. This is why we need community immunity and booster shots. You don’t understand the science, nor the history. There have been several natural experiments when vaccination went down and diseases went up. Here are some examples:

    Expert Rev Vaccines. 2005 Apr;4(2):173-84.
    Acellular pertussis vaccines in Japan: past, present and future.

    “After two infants died within 24 h of the vaccination from 1974 to 1975, the Japanese government temporarily suspended vaccinations. Subsequently, the public and the government witnessed the re-emergence of whooping cough, with 41 deaths in 1979. This series of unfortunate events revealed to the public that the vaccine had, in fact, been beneficial.”

    J Infect Dis. 2000 Feb;181 Suppl 1:S10-22.
    Successful control of epidemic diphtheria in the states of the Former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics: lessons learned.

    “From 1990 through 1998, more than 157,000 cases and 5000 deaths were reported by the countries of the former Soviet Union, representing more than 80% of diphtheria cases reported worldwide. Three-quarters of the cases were reported from the Russian Federation. This was the largest diphtheria epidemic since the 1950s, the beginning of the era of widespread diphtheria immunization.”

    BMC Public Health. 2005 Jun 4;5:59.
    Measles vaccine coverage and factors related to uncompleted vaccination among 18-month-old and 36-month-old children in Kyoto, Japan.

    “In Japan, measles vaccine coverage has remained low, and either small or moderate outbreaks have occurred repeatedly in communities. According to an infectious disease surveillance (2000), total measles cases were estimated to be from 180,000 to 210,000, and total deaths were estimated to be 88 [11,12]. Measles cases are most frequently observed among non-immunized children, particularly between 12 to 24 months.”

    The above is what you advocating in the USA. Do tell us how the diseases themselves are so much safer than the vaccines. Post the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule causes more harm than the disease.

    Like

  114. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    G.D.: “Well just ignore 400,000 deaths a year caused by the medical and pharmaceutical industry”

    Which you want to add to by forcing children to suffer high fevers, seizures, meningitis, pneumonia, etc by actually getting sick. You are ignoring that measles, diphtheria, Hib, influenza, etc kill and maim children.

    You are repeating yourself with a paper I already told did not prove vaccines are worse than the diseases.

    Like

  115. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 8:51 pm

    Chris, no one is stopping you from getting vaccinated. No one. But mandating them for everyone is a violation of human rights. Furthermore you should stay home for two weeks after your vaccines due viral shedding and you potentially getting those who are immune compromised sick. It’s just a common courtesy. Decency as a human being.

    Like

  116. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 8:55 pm

    G.D.: “But mandating them for everyone is a violation of human rights.”

    Only to attend public school, and in some state’s private school. If you don’t like it, then home school your special snowflakes.

    “Furthermore you should stay home for two weeks after your vaccines due viral shedding ”

    Which only occurred with smallpox and OPV, neither of which are on the present American pediatric schedule.

    What would be common courtesy is you actually answering my questions, and stop dumping false information. In short: stop cut and pasting from Scudamore’s website and come up with real evidence to support your claims.

    Like

  117. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    Chris, it’s you that is making stuff up. Not me.

    Like

  118. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 10:32 pm

    G.D.: “Chris, it’s you that is making stuff up.”

    So all of those PubMed papers I posted are fictional? For others who actually care about the health of children: all but one of the papers I posted is available to read for free online.

    Like

  119. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 10:39 pm

    Another analogy to consider: We have numerous reports of police corruption, and crimes still occur. Should we just get rid of law enforcement?

    Like

  120. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    Get this through your head. “Corruption of the medical industry worldwide is a huge issue, perhaps more dangerous than the threat of all wars combined.”
    http://nsnbc.me/2015/06/19/shocking-report-from-medical-insiders/

    Like

  121. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 11:06 pm

    “A recent study conducted by Professor Vincent Lariviere from the University of Montreal’s School of Library and Information Science, and a number of other researchers, found that nearly all major scientific papers are controlled by the same six corporations.”
    http://yournewswire.com/nearly-all-scientific-papers-controlled-by-same-six-corporations/

    Like

  122. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 11:09 pm

    G.D.: Does the existence of police corruption mean we shouldn’t bother to enforce laws?

    Like

  123. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 11:14 pm

    Red herring. Not interested, Gray Falcon.

    Like

  124. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 11:19 pm

    Allow me to explain my analogy, G.D. You can make all the allegations you want, but we need evidence. Your are currently the prosecutor claiming the defendant’s alleged mob ties made by a paid witness are sufficient evidence to convict them of murder. We are the defense attorneys who just called the alleged victim to the witness stand. Your call.

    Like

  125. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 11:23 pm

    Let me clarify further: You can shout “corruption!” all you want, but we still have evidence that vaccines work that didn’t come from the pharmaceutical companies. Take a look at Chris’ articles, you’ll find most have no financial connection to anyone selling vaccines. Meanwhile, your sources are all people selling alternatives.

    Like

  126. G.D.
    November 2, 2015 at 11:36 pm

    Gray Falcon, another false statement from you. Can’t have an honest discussion with liars. Good night.

    Like

  127. Chris
    November 2, 2015 at 11:41 pm

    G.D. “Yes, vaccines do kill.”

    Where are the PubMed indexed studies that show any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule causes more than 147 children to die in the USA each year?

    Like

  128. Gray Falcon
    November 2, 2015 at 11:46 pm

    G.D.: Show me which statement is false, and the evidence supporting it. Don’t just make accusations.

    Like

  129. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:29 am
  130. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:33 am

    Forgot this.
    1955 – Measles death rate has naturally declined, without vaccines, to .03 per 100,000 by 1955.
    http://abundanthope.net/pages/Health_and_Nutrition_37/The-History-of-Health-In-Chronological-Order_printer.shtml
    This same figure is reported in many other places as well. I guess your figure is the “official” figure which doesn’t necessarily mean it’s correct.

    Like

  131. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:45 am

    And in case you didn’t notice….
    1936 – Pertussis vaccine introduced in the United States. Autism begins to appear in children shortly thereafter. (Autism: A mental illness of children characterized by inability to communicate or to relate to other people and, often, mental sub normality).
    AND
    1945 – Japan surrenders twice, followed by US bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki and a third and final surrender. The Allies mandate compulsory vaccination in Japan. The first cases of autism follow pertussis vaccine introduction.
    http://abundanthope.net/pages/Health_and_Nutrition_37/The-History-of-Health-In-Chronological-Order_printer.shtml

    And I believe this. There is no reason for anyone on this link to lie.

    Like

  132. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Wow – certainly one odious troll that lives in its own little dream world…..seriously though, and exhibits the same “mortality vs. incidence” lack of knowledge that all anti-vaxers seem to have.

    And of course, incidence of measles also led directly to SSPE – which kills years later.

    Like

  133. Chris
    November 3, 2015 at 8:59 am

    Wow, and he doesn’t even realize I posted a table showing measles morbidity in the USA dropped 90% between 1960 and 1970. G.D. is the most clueless person to troll this blog in years. He even surpasses the guy who claimed that there no vaccines for bacterial diseases.

    Like

  134. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 9:20 am

    I find that link to be extremely suspect on its face, for example:

    1860 Introduction of antibiotics and immunization into the US. (Thru 1896)

    Given that antibiotics were a 20th Century discovery, this is false. Also, immunizations were common in North America from colonial times…..and the first inoculation mandate was passed by the Commonwealth of Virginia in 1792.

    So, your link does lie.

    Like

  135. Chris
    November 3, 2015 at 9:21 am

    Go.D.: “1955 – Measles death rate has naturally declined, without vaccines, to .03 per 100,000 by 1955.”

    Due to better medical care like the invention of mechanical ventilators and antibiotics for secondary bacterial infections. Very expensive medical care. Look at the numbers I posted above:

    Measles:
    Year_Cases_Deaths__Year___Cases____Deaths
    2000____86___ 1____1950__319124____468
    2001___116___ 1____1951__530118____683
    2002____44___ 0____1952__683077____618
    2003____56___ 1____1953__449146____462
    2004____37___ 0____1954__682720____518
    2005____66___ 1____1955__555156____345
    2006____55___ 0____1956__611936____530
    Total__460____4_________3831277___3624

    The year 1955 was a dip in the natural cycle. Deaths were up again in 1956.

    Like

  136. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 9:26 am

    A quick read of that conspiracy-filled screed shows that it contains numerous contradictory and blatantly false entries…..

    Seriously, I can’t believe it wasn’t posted on Whale.to.

    Like

  137. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 9:59 am

    The anti-sugar, anti-psychiatry, anti-fluoride, anti-vaccine agenda is just dripping from that inaccurate garbage….

    Like

  138. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 1:56 pm

    Chris, I DID notice your GOV measles rate chart. That is why I mentioned what I did. Idiot. Do you know what GOV’s do best? They lie. Do you know what politicians do best? They lie. And fluoride is a poison, Lawrence. A neurotoxin. And it does nothing for teeth but destroy them. But that is good for dentistry. Both of you need to learn a little history and stop being so damn gullible.

    Anti-sugar? Good one.

    Like

  139. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    I guess you didn’t actually read that “history” you provided…..they certainly had a hard-on for “refined sugar.”

    And as I pointed out, the inaccuracies start piling up once you really start reading it.

    Like

  140. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    I’m certain Mr. G.D. is either a contributor or a frequenter of Whale.to….which says all we need to know about him.

    Like

  141. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    I’d like you to explain how antibiotics were introduced in the United States in 1860, when Penicillin wasn’t discovered until 1928.

    And that’s just one of the many, many inaccuracies in that “history of health” you so helpfully provided to us.

    Like

  142. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    And in the same entry, how were vaccinations introduced in the US in 1860, when what we call “vaccines” weren’t invented until the early to mid 20th Century?

    Like

  143. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    So, I’ll just leave this here for those who are interested in real facts – not fiction:

    http://www.historyofvaccines.org/

    Like

  144. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    Who gives a shit about Whale.to? Never heard of it. Maybe I should check it out. Lawrence is obsessed with it.

    Like

  145. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 2:08 pm

    Since you rely on a bunch of uncited inaccurate garbage, I’m surprised you don’t know the real source for most of that “information.”

    Also, I noticed the claim that the Spanish Flu Pandemic was blamed on “vaccines” – again, a completely uncited source, and interesting, given that the Flu killed people all over the world, whether they have access to health care or not…

    Seriously, you’ve done nothing but prove that you have nothing but a screw loose.

    Like

  146. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 2:09 pm

    And of course, this, for the educated among us:

    https://www.tycho.pitt.edu/

    Like

  147. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    “it is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964337/

    The annual cost of caring for Americans with autism might reach $500 billion by 2025, a new study estimates, with outside estimates approaching $1 trillion. http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20150729/autism-care-costs-could-hit-500-billion-by-2025-study

    1936 – Pertussis vaccine introduced in the United States. Autism begins to appear in children shortly thereafter. (Autism: A mental illness of children characterized by inability to communicate or to relate to other people and, often, mental sub normality).
    AND
    1945 – Japan surrenders twice, followed by US bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki and a third and final surrender. The Allies mandate compulsory vaccination in Japan. The first cases of autism follow pertussis vaccine introduction.
    http://abundanthope.net/pages/Health_and_Nutrition_37/The-History-of-Health-In-Chronological-Order_printer.shtml

    And I believe this.

    Like

  148. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    I believe the potential side-effects of vaccines listed on vaccine package inserts as well. See page eleven of this vaccine package insert from the FDA. See the word “Autism”? See the word “SIDS”? It means Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.
    http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm101580.pdf
    It is put on there to avoid future lawsuits.

    Like

  149. V. Boyd Alexander
    November 3, 2015 at 2:39 pm

    Thank you for the information GD. I tend to agree with you.

    Like

  150. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    Except that people with symptoms of autism have been noted throughout history….

    And your reliance on that garbage just shows that you can’t think for yourself or even notice the massive inconsistencies in the information provided.

    And I also notice that you can’t or won’t answer my questions.

    Like

  151. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    And G.D. doesn’t know the difference between a side-effect and reported adverse event either…..

    Like

  152. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 2:50 pm

    Because reported “adverse events” also include broken legs, drowning and car accidents…..

    Like

  153. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:03 pm

    I so see the words autism and SIDS: they appear in afollowing paragraph which states that no causal association between Tripedia vaccination and either of these has been demonstrated, and they were instead included in the list “because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine”.

    Did YOU note in the insert that in fact the incidence of SIDS following vaccination with Tripedia was roughly half the overall incidence of SIDS in the US (“The rate of SIDS observed in the US open-label safety study was 0.8/1,000 vaccinated infants and the reported rate of SIDS in the US from 1985-1991 was 1.5/1,000 live birth”)?

    If you were trying to argue Tripedia is protective against SIDS this insert would support your case, but it doesn’t constitute evidence of an increased SIDS risk following vaccination.

    Like

  154. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:06 pm

    Dublin, the report indicates that the family of the 9 year old girl BELIEVES her paralysis was caused by the flu shot, but offers no evidence that was actually the case. In fact, their believe seems to be founded in nothing other than a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.

    You do see the problem here, I trust.

    Like

  155. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:10 pm

    “No, it wouldn’t be acceptable because vaccines can be made safer if they wanted to make them safer. There is absolutely no incentive to make them safer because vaccine manufacturers cannot be sued even when the vaccines are made without defects.”

    Nonsense: any pharmaceutical company that successfully produced a demonstrably safer/and or more effective vaccine would capture the entire market for that vaccine in very short order, generating millions in increased revenue.

    Like

  156. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:12 pm

    @jgc56
    I see no problem. It’s very simple to follow. The girl received a flu shot, had a reaction, and is now paralyzed and possibly going blind. Unless somebody is a complete idiot, it shouldn’t be too hard to figure out.

    Like

  157. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    “And fluoride is a poison, Lawrence.”

    At levels of exposure achievable by regular consumption of fluoridated drinking water? Citations needed.

    Surely you’re aware that the fundamental principle of toxicology is “The dose makes the posion”?

    Like

  158. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    jgc56, I do believe the girl’s paralysis was due to her flu shot. Guillain-Barré syndrome isn’t really all that rare following a flu vaccine.

    Like

  159. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:15 pm

    And the rate of GBS in the general population would be what, G.D.?

    Like

  160. Chris
    November 3, 2015 at 3:15 pm

    Though Guillain-Barré is even more common after actually getting influenza, a disease that killed 147 American children last year.

    Like

  161. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    @jgc56
    “Nonsense: any pharmaceutical company that successfully produced a demonstrably safer/and or more effective vaccine would capture the entire market for that vaccine in very short order, generating millions in increased revenue.”

    Hmmmm, if that were to happen, it would have to mean that current vaccines are not safe.

    Like

  162. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    “Most data collected by CDC is contained in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database. The VAERS is generally thought to contain only 3 to 5 percent of reportable incidents. This is simply because only some immediate reactions are reported by doctors; but many are not admitted to be reactions to the vaccine. Most importantly, the VAERS numbers are only immediate reactions, which would take place within a few hours to a few weeks. Long-term vaccine-induced diseases and disorders are not recognized by parents or doctors when these conditions develop perhaps a few months to five years or more and would never be realized to come from multiple vaccinations. In other words, many children and adults have diseases and disorders that are vaccine induced and they never suspect they are from the vaccines.”

    Like

  163. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:17 pm

    Science continues to march forward – vaccines today are safer than they used to be & in coming years, they will continue to get safer and more effective….that’s the way it works.

    Like

  164. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:17 pm

    And what is your source for that statement, G.D.?

    Like

  165. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    And you do also realize that VAERS is only one of the multiple safety tracking systems dedicated to vaccines, right?

    Ever heard of the Vaccine Safety Datalink?

    Like

  166. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    Look at all of the injuries from flu vaccines, including GBS.
    http://www.mctlawyers.com/vaccine-injury/cases/

    Like

  167. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    Chicken Pox vaccine strain virus can reactivate to cause meningitis.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20844461

    Like

  168. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    And as suspected, I believe that statement comes from a notorious anti-vax immunologist – one who doesn’t even know the proper definition of her chosen profession.

    Like

  169. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    Oh, look at the lawyers who make money off of convincing people that their reactions are caused by vaccines…..

    Like

  170. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    “1936 – Pertussis vaccine introduced in the United States. Autism begins to appear in children shortly thereafter.”

    Uhhh…no. Autism didn’t begin to appear in children shortly thereafter (autistic juveniles and adults existed prior to 1936).

    What actually happened ‘shortly thereafter’ was that Leo Kanner of Johns Hopkins hospital first used the term ‘autism’ to describe a common set of behavioral and developmental symptoms exhibited by 11 subjects, which we now understand to be characteristic of autism spectrum disorders.
    .

    Like

  171. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    Good research article showing vaccinated child had live vaccine-derived measles in his throat 12 days after vaccination. Unvaccinated people can’t magically give other people measles, but recently vaccinated people can.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11858860?dopt=AbstractPlus

    Like

  172. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:22 pm

    And I’m guessing that G.D. didn’t bother to read anything other than the abstract…..

    Like

  173. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:23 pm

    You really are grasping at straws….there has never, ever been a case of vaccine strain attenuated measles virus causing an infection in anyone else…i.e. never a single case of “shedding.”

    Like

  174. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:24 pm

    Let’s spread the mumps too. Children who were the source of transmission had been vaccinated with the MMR vaccine. Never mind that the children at the source of the infection spread were vaccinated. Ignore it. Our religion dictates that vaccines do not spread disease and no study is going to tell us otherwise. You cannot stop a religion with facts and science.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22749598

    Like

  175. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:24 pm

    @lawrence
    “Oh, look at the lawyers who make money off of convincing people that their reactions are caused by vaccines…..”

    That’s not how it works. Maybe you should do some research and find out what the relationship is between the lawyers and the vaccine court and also how they are paid.

    Like

  176. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:24 pm

    Dublin, I’ve seen that list of casesa awarded before–how did you fail to not that they represent cases where plaintiffs have been compensated by the NVICP for table injuries, where no legal finding is made that vaccines caused the injuries for which compensation is awarded?

    Like

  177. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    “I see no problem. It’s very simple to follow”

    Google ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’, Dublin. It will save you much embarassament in the future.

    Like

  178. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    I know exactly how they get paid – and they get paid whether or not the plaintiff wins….allowing them to rake in huge fees.

    Like

  179. Chris
    November 3, 2015 at 3:28 pm

    G.D.: Children who were the source of transmission had been vaccinated with the MMR vaccine.”

    From the abstract: “Here we report horizontal symptomatic transmission of the Leningrad-Zagreb (L-Zagreb) mumps vaccine virus.”

    Not used in the USA. Plus single case reports are not data.

    Like

  180. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    ” Guillain-Barré syndrome isn’t really all that rare following a flu vaccine.”

    Only if by ‘not really all that rare” you mean “0.8 excess cases of GBS per 1 million vaccinations.” (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm59e0602a1.htm)

    Like

  181. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    @jgc56
    “they represent cases where plaintiffs have been compensated by the NVICP for table injuries, where no legal finding is made that vaccines caused the injuries for which compensation is awarded?”
    Wrong. They are legal findings, there is a process. The evidence is right in front of you. Many people injured by the flu vaccine, and all you people want to do is deny it, make fun of it, insult the injured and their parents, and make excuses. It’s really sad that you go to such measures to cover up the facts.

    Like

  182. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    “Hmmmm, if that were to happen, it would have to mean that current vaccines are not safe.”

    No, it would only mean that the next generation of vaccines were even safer.

    Like

  183. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    The first court award in a vaccine-autism claim is a big one. CBS News has learned the family of Hannah Poling will receive more than $1.5 million dollars for her life care; lost earnings; and pain and suffering for the first year alone.

    In addition to the first year, the family will receive more than $500,000 per year to pay for Hannah’s care. Those familiar with the case believe the compensation could easily amount to $20 million over the child’s lifetime.

    Hannah was described as normal, happy and precocious in her first 18 months.

    Then, in July 2000, she was vaccinated against nine diseases in one doctor’s visit: measles, mumps, rubella, polio, varicella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, and Haemophilus influenzae.

    Afterward, her health declined rapidly. She developed high fevers, stopped eating, didn’t respond when spoken to, began showing signs of autism, and began having screaming fits. In 2002, Hannah’s parents filed an autism claim in federal vaccine court. Five years later, the government settled the case before trial and had it sealed. It’s taken more than two years for both sides to agree on how much Hannah will be compensated for her injuries.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

    Like

  184. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    “Wrong. They are legal findings, there is a process.”

    Yes, and I understand that process while clearly you do not. NVICP awards for table injuries represent settlements, with no requirement that the plaintiff demonstrates causality and no finding by the NVICP that the vaccine caused the injury for which compensation is awarded.

    Note that to date better than 95% of all NVICP awards of compensation represent settlements for table injuries.

    Like

  185. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    “A positive and statistically significant relationship was found: The higher the proportion of children receiving recommended vaccinations, the higher was the prevalence of autism or speech or language impairment. A 1% increase in vaccination was associated with an additional 680 children having autism or speech or language impairment.”
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535/

    Like

  186. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    @jg
    “No, it would only mean that the next generation of vaccines were even safer.”

    Thank you for finally admitting that vaccines are not safe.

    Like

  187. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    More junk science? Why am I not surprised.

    Like

  188. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:38 pm

    It’s clear to me all this people defending vaccines here are nothing but astroturfers. Astroturfing is the attempt to create an impression of widespread grassroots support for a policy, individual, or product, where little such support exists. Multiple online identities and fake pressure groups are used to mislead the public into believing that the position of the astroturfer is the commonly held view.

    Some big companies now use sophisticated “persona management software” to create armies of virtual astroturfers, complete with fake IP addresses, non-political interests and online histories. Authentic-looking profiles are generated automatically and developed for months or years before being brought into use for a political or corporate campaign. As the software improves, these astroturf armies will become increasingly difficult to spot, and the future of open debate online could become increasingly perilous.
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/08/what-is-astroturfing
    They defy logic and jump through all kinds of hoops to perpetuate a lie.

    Like

  189. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:38 pm

    “The evidence is right in front of you. Many people injured by the flu vaccine, and all you people want to do is deny it, make fun of it, insult the injured and their parents, and make excuses. It’s really sad that you go to such measures to cover up the facts.”

    I haven’t insulted anyone, Dublin, and I’m not making excuses because to the best of my knowledge there’s nothing that requires excuse.

    I do wonder why, if as you claim there is evidence demonstrating ‘many people are injured by the flu vaccine” you’re not offering actual evidence this is so, and instead are pointing us to sites offering lists of legal settlements by the NVICP.

    Surely you realize that court awards of compensation do not constitute scientific evidence demonstrating causality?

    Like

  190. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:38 pm

    That’s just a stupid statement – if I come out with a new model of car that performs better in crash tests, does that mean the previous model was unsafe?

    Like

  191. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:39 pm

    I haven’t admitted the current generation of vaccines are unsafe, Dublin. please stop assigning me positions I do not hold.

    Like

  192. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    Since G.D. appears to be unable to answer simple questions & instead resorts to nothing but copy and paste, I suspect that he may be nothing more than a Turing Test…..

    Like

  193. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    @jg
    “Note that to date better than 95% of all NVICP awards of compensation represent settlements for table injuries.”
    So what. Table injuries are just definitions of what has been set that you can sue for. There is still a legal process and hearing. I happen to know this very well.
    You think you can make a claim and just get paid? Maybe it is you who needs to not embarrass yourself, jg.

    Like

  194. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    The Vaccine Hoax is Over. Google that.

    Like

  195. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    GD, as I’m not trying to create an impression of widespread grassroots support for any policy (I’m speaking instead to the absolute lack of any scientific evidence supporting the existence of a causal association between routine childhood vaccination and autism spectrum disorders, SID, etc.) I trust you were including me in your post regarding astro-turfing.

    Like

  196. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    No need to – you’re nothing more than a mess of paranoid delusions.

    Like

  197. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:43 pm

    @jg
    “I haven’t admitted the current generation of vaccines are unsafe, Dublin. please stop assigning me positions I do not hold.”

    You did. Did you forget already?

    Here it is..”No, it would only mean that the next generation of vaccines were even safer.”

    Like

  198. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:44 pm

    @jg
    “Surely you realize that court awards of compensation do not constitute scientific evidence demonstrating causality?”

    More nonsense and excuses.

    Like

  199. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:45 pm

    I don’t know where G.D. gets his misinformation (though I suspect it is the usual sources), but given that vaccines are almost universally supported by the vast majority of Americans…the only astroturfers are the anti-vaxers that are attempting to make themselves appear to be in larger numbers than they are (just look at the few hundred people that showed up at the CDC – very embarrassing for anti-vaxers).

    Like

  200. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    Dublin doesn’t realize that he should be addressing me…..

    Like

  201. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:46 pm

    @lawrence
    “That’s just a stupid statement – if I come out with a new model of car that performs better in crash tests, does that mean the previous model was unsafe?”

    I think you answered your own question.

    Like

  202. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:47 pm

    Why is that lawrence? Are you the manager or boss of these folks?

    Like

  203. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    Dublin, I’m not paid to post, here or on any other forum, and table injuries are not definitions of what you can sue for: they’re instead lists of injuries for which compensation is awarded automatically, as a settlement, if the plaintiff can establish the onset of injury occurred within a specific period of time following vaccination. In all cases where compensation is awarded for table injuries the court does not issue a finding that the vaccine caused the injury.

    Really, your problem seems to be not what you don’t know, but the things you think you know for certain that simply aren’t so.

    Like

  204. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:50 pm

    @lawrence
    “majority of Americans…the only astroturfers are the anti-vaxers that are attempting to make themselves appear to be in larger numbers than they are (just look at the few hundred people that showed up at the CDC – very embarrassing for anti-vaxers).”

    Then you have nothing to worry about and shouldn’t get all worked up with people commenting here. I feel so embarrassed.

    Like

  205. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:50 pm

    Dublin, is English your first language? because if it’s not I can’t comprehend how you can interpret “The next generation was even safer” as a statement “The current generation wasn’t safe”.

    Like

  206. Gray Falcon
    November 3, 2015 at 3:50 pm

    Ever since the Disneyland outbreak, the antivaccine movement seems to have been falling apart.

    Like

  207. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:51 pm

    How to hide vaccine problems. Make sure that large batches don’t go to the same place!
    https://therefurbishedrogue.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/one-of-the-sickest-examples-of-vaccine-industry-corruption-wyeth-internal-memo/

    Like

  208. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    @jg
    “the court does not issue a finding that the vaccine caused the injury.”
    Of course not, that is part of the deal. Pretty nice for the vaccine manufacturers and the government don’t you think? I guess that makes it right. Time to move on.

    Like

  209. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 3:54 pm

    @jg
    “Dublin, is English your first language? because if it’s not I can’t comprehend how you can interpret “The next generation was even safer” as a statement “The current generation wasn’t safe”.

    It is not my first language, but believe me I understand. If something is “safer”, then it wasn’t as safe before. That is not hard to understand. Is English your first language jg?

    Like

  210. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    So may I take it that since (for whatever reason) the court does not issue a finding the vaccine caused the injury compensated for, lists of cases where people have received compensation for table injuries does not represent evidence that vaccines caused those injuries. Agreed?

    Good–we may be making progress.

    Like

  211. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    From May 10, 2011. “Government program has been quietly paying awards to vaccine-injured children with autism for two decades but continues to deny vaccine-autism link.”
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/83-cases-of-autism-associated-with-childhood-vaccine-injury-compensated-in-federal-vaccine-court-121570673.html
    And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

    Like

  212. Gray Falcon
    November 3, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    Dublin: “Not as safe” is not the same thing as “unsafe”. Now tell me something. There is always a risk of your child choking to death while eating. Would it be safer not to feed him?

    Like

  213. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 3:58 pm

    ‘Not as safe” is not equivalent to ‘IS unsafe’–agreed? More progress.

    And yes, English is my first language.

    Like

  214. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 4:00 pm

    No, gray, but since it would be safer to feed him only pureed foods eating a hot dog is unsafe . /sarcasm

    Like

  215. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    @jg
    “So may I take it that since (for whatever reason) the court does not issue a finding the vaccine caused the injury compensated for, lists of cases where people have received compensation for table injuries does not represent evidence that vaccines caused those injuries. Agreed?”

    It’s a scam. You already admitted that people can get GBS from the flu vaccine. So if this happens, the court awards but denies it was the vaccine – correct? So in theory it is impossible to get GBS from a vaccine because they’ll never admit to it. The you all can say that nobody has ever been awarded money for a vaccine causing GBS.

    You do understand that this denial is not honest, don’t you?

    Like

  216. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    If you need to make something “safer” then there is something about it that is not safe.
    English really your first language jg?

    Like

  217. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    Re: those 83 cases, GD: That’s Holland et al, and as evidence for a causal association it’s worthless. See https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/when-you-cant-win-on-science-invoke-the-law-2/ for details.

    Like

  218. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    ” You already admitted that people can get GBS from the flu vaccine.”

    No, actually I didn’t: note again that the incidence of GBS following flu vaccine is LOWER than the incidence in the general population (0.8/1000 innoculation versus 1.6 per 1000 live births). If anything, it’s protective against GBS.

    Like

  219. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    jgc56, sciencebasedmedicine is an astroturfer website. Now we know exactly what YOU are. That website is worthless. Not credible.

    Like

  220. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    So, if something is 99% safe, and I figure out a way to make it 99.1% safe, it is by definition, safer…..

    The only one here (well the only two – G.D. is just hopeless) looking foolish is you, Dublin.

    Like

  221. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    Science Based Medicine – really? Those guys deny that acupuncture works. I wouldn’t trust anything they have to say.

    Like

  222. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    And why is that GD, because Sharyl said so? She even admitted that she made her “list” from less than two hundred tweets she received….

    You really don’t know the definition, if you’re listening to her.

    And still no answers to be earlier questions, huh? As it how antibiotics were introduced to the United States nearly 70 years before they were discovered?

    Like

  223. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    Such a fool lawrence. I am so foolish and embarrassed. What am I to do?

    Like

  224. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    That last statement just shows us how delusional you are, Dublin.

    Like

  225. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    @jg
    “If anything, it’s protective against GBS.”

    I just laughed out loud.

    Like

  226. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    I am delusional because I know that acupuncture works?
    Better wake up lawrence, there’s a big world out there and many things to learn.

    Like

  227. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    “So, if something is 99% safe, and I figure out a way to make it 99.1% safe, it is by definition, safer…..”

    It’s too bad that vaccine’s aren’t 99% safe. Then you would have a point.

    Like

  228. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    No, you’re delusional because you think it works…..I’m sure Chairman Mao is laughing in his grave that his grand illusion of TCM that he instituted during the Cultural Revolution, has gotten so many adherents in the decadent West…..

    Like

  229. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    Skeptical Raptor is just another astroturfer website. I generally get my information from the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health website. I can read the pro’s and the con’s of most everything and make my own mind up.

    Like

  230. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    You’re right, they aren’t 99% safe – they are more like 99.9% safe.

    Like

  231. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:16 pm

    Actually, maybe my numbers are off – they’d be 99.9999% safe.

    Like

  232. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:16 pm

    Acupuncture does work. It even healed my dog when nothing else did.

    Like

  233. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:16 pm

    I’m sorry that you felt it was necessary to subject your dog to such quackery.

    Like

  234. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    @lawrence
    “they are more like 99.9% safe.”
    Too bad the injuries don’t support your statement.

    Like

  235. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    Really? My dog sure appreciated getting better and having a better life.

    Like

  236. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    Lawrence, injecting aluminum, thimerosal (mercury), and foreign DNA into infants isn’t safe no matter how you slice it.

    Like

  237. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    The actual evidence belies your statement….

    Like

  238. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:20 pm

    I’m sure you know more than thousands of years of practiced medicine. Wonder why they would keep doing it for so long with no results? Crazy.

    Like

  239. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:21 pm

    The evidence proves acupuncture works lawrence. Just ask my dog.

    Like

  240. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 4:23 pm

    “it is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964337/

    “Corruption of the medical industry worldwide is a huge issue, perhaps more dangerous than the threat of all wars combined.”
    http://nsnbc.me/2015/06/19/shocking-report-from-medical-insiders/

    Like

  241. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    They you don’t know the history of Acupuncture……

    Like

  242. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    GD – agreed. It was admitted that the Hep B is given to new-borns to get the trend of vaccines going in families early.

    Like

  243. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    More cut and paste? I don’t believe GD has ever had an original thought.

    Like

  244. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    I know it has been used for a very, very long time, and for a reason. I also know it healed my dog. What else do I need to know?

    Like

  245. Gray Falcon
    November 3, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    GD and Dublin, how do we know you aren’t out to increase hospital profits by discouraging vaccination?

    Like

  246. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:28 pm

    @Gray
    You’re right I am a Doc, so I don’t want people to vaccinate so that I can have more sick people to work on. Got me.

    Like

  247. Gray Falcon
    November 3, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Dublin, there are numerous cases of people attributing diseases to a witch’s curse, and recovery to killing said witch. Should we be going back to witch hunting again?

    Like

  248. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Lawrence, you complain when you don’t get sources of citations. Then you complain when you do. Goodbye. Can’t handle anymore of your insanity.

    Like

  249. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:30 pm

    Good riddance – I’m sure your conspiracy circles are missing you.

    Like

  250. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    Lawrence, conspiracies are ongoing and happen all the time. What the shit do you think WaterGate was?? The silliness!!

    Like

  251. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    @Gray
    Yes, I think that would be a splendid idea.

    Like

  252. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:35 pm

    GD, I believe these guys are paid to make these comments. Nobody is this foolish.

    Now, I’ve got to go. I need to eat some GMO’s.

    Like

  253. Gray Falcon
    November 3, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    Dublin, G.D.: If I declared that I believed you were murderers, would that be sufficient for your arrest and conviction? No, evidence is required, Evidence you have not provided. We have no reason to trust you.

    Like

  254. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    Please point to specific errors or misstatements of fact in the article at science based medicine, GD, rather than trying to dismiss it on the basis of supposed bias..

    Like

  255. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    @Gray
    Wonder what is wrong with you Gray? Too many video games? Something is off.

    Like

  256. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    He won’t be able to – to admit that even one of his sources is wrong means his entire world is going to come crashing down.

    Like

  257. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    Dublin, please provide credible evidence which demonstrates that acupuncture is more effective as a treatment for any non-self-limiting illness or injury than are placebo’s/sham acupuncture.

    Like

  258. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    @jg
    If you can’t trust a source, you can’t trust it. No need to waste time by reading and pointing out specific errors. Science Based Medicine website can not be trusted with accurate information. Period.

    Like

  259. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    Dublin, how have you established that what you believe healed your dog (acupuncture) actually was responsible for the improvements in his health you observed?

    Again, I trust it’s on some basis other than a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.

    Like

  260. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    @jg
    “Dublin, please provide credible evidence which demonstrates that acupuncture is more effective as a treatment for any non-self-limiting illness or injury than are placebo’s/sham acupuncture.”

    Are you for real? My dog was healed. How is that a placebo effect?
    Believe what you want and don’t ever get acupuncture. I don’t care.

    Like

  261. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    G>D>< your evidence demonstrating that aluminum and thimerosal (which by the is no more mercury than table salt is chlorine) are toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine vaccination would be…what,. exactly?

    I mean, you do actuall have some-right?

    Like

  262. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    @jg
    “Dublin, how have you established that what you believe healed your dog (acupuncture) actually was responsible for the improvements in his health you observed?
    Again, I trust it’s on some basis other than a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.”

    You are a big joke. According to you, none of us can be sure about anything. I am surprised you can live like that. Always questioning yourself and your abilities to make decisions. Worried, it is a placebo or that you don’t have the proof you need to make a decision. Maybe you should settle down and chill out a bit. The stress and anxiety must be killing you.
    I have some supplements that would help with the stress and anxiety but I am sure you are not interested and I’m sure your would rather choose to be on medication.

    Like

  263. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    “If you can’t trust a source, you can’t trust it.”
    You’ve offered nothing that demonstrates that science based medicine is untrustworthy.

    “No need to waste time by reading and pointing out specific errors.”
    yes there is: if you wish to convince anyone that 1) the article is wrong or misleading and 2) the site is untrustworthy.

    But am I correct is assuming from your post you didn’t even read the article I linked to?

    Like

  264. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    “According to you, none of us can be sure about anything.”
    I haven’t said this, however, have I? I’m simply asking how you’ve established it was actually the acupuncture that cured your dog.

    (Which supplements, by the way, and where can I find appropriately controlled and blinded clinical studies demonstrating they’re actually effective at relieving stress and anxiety?)

    Like

  265. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    @jg
    ““If you can’t trust a source, you can’t trust it.”
    You’ve offered nothing that demonstrates that science based medicine is untrustworthy.
    “No need to waste time by reading and pointing out specific errors.”
    yes there is: if you wish to convince anyone that 1) the article is wrong or misleading and 2) the site is untrustworthy.
    But am I correct is assuming from your post you didn’t even read the article I linked to?”

    I am not obligated to accept your sources. There are a whole list of things those guys have wrong on various topics. It is not a credible website.

    Like

  266. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:55 pm

    @jg
    “I’m simply asking how you’ve established it was actually the acupuncture that cured your dog.”

    Gee, I don’t know. I just made it up.

    “(Which supplements, by the way, and where can I find appropriately controlled and blinded clinical studies demonstrating they’re actually effective at relieving stress and anxiety?)”

    It’s OK, just stick with your medications. I don’t want you to stress any more.

    I hope you don’t live your whole life and make every decision in regards to “appropriately controlled and blinded clinical studies”

    Like

  267. Dublin
    November 3, 2015 at 4:56 pm

    I do have to go now. I am scheduled to film some chem trails.

    Like

  268. Gray Falcon
    November 3, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    Dublin; “Wonder what is wrong with you Gray? Too many video games? Something is off.”
    It’s because you don’t understand analogies and abstract thought. I’m asking you those questions so you can see the logical fallacies in your statements, but you simply lack the necessary mental skills to comprehend them. I suggest you read this before you comment here again:

    http://www.fallacyfiles.org/

    Like

  269. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 5:26 pm

    Just once, I’d like an anti-vaxer to be prepared to discuss real science, instead of the current crop of garbage…..

    Any discussion is hopeless when they show a complete lack of understanding of biology, chemistry or immunology.

    Like

  270. Lawrence
    November 3, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    Actually, I made the mistake of checking out the main page where GD got his “history.”

    I wouldn’t recommend anyone go there, unless they want to see the depths of delusion and antisemitism that is posted there…..

    Like

  271. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    “Gee, I don’t know. I just made it up.”

    That is what it looks like to me–you tried acupuncture, at some time after acupuncture your dog improved, and you conclude on no basis other post hoc ergo propter hoc the acupuncture was responsible for the improvement.

    It’s no different than concluding that rubbing a lucky rabbit’s foot improves your luck at cards, because one time after after rubbing you won a big pot.

    Like

  272. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    “I am not obligated to accept your sources.”
    If you possessed any intellectual honesty at all you’d address the article itself indicating where it misstated facts or arrived at false conclusions rather than the reject on no basis other than the website it appears on.

    With that in mind, I’m actually not really surprised you haven’t even attempted to do so.

    “There are a whole list of things those guys have wrong on various topics.”

    What, however, have ‘those guys’ gotten wrong in this specific article?

    Like

  273. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 6:45 pm

    jgc56, I couldn’t get past the title of the article. “When you can’t win on science, invoke the law…” It’s all fraud for the most part. Why even bother with rest??? Fraud and corruption. Get that through your head. “Corruption of the medical industry worldwide is a huge issue, perhaps more dangerous than the threat of all wars combined.”
    http://nsnbc.me/2015/06/19/shocking-report-from-medical-insiders/

    Why bother? Everyone is essentially on their own now. Do what you want to do.

    Like

  274. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    So you admit you did not read the article, yet you’re going to assert it lacks credibility or displays bias? Way to demonstrate your intellectual integrity, GD–not!

    Like

  275. G.D.
    November 3, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    What part of F-R-A-U-D and C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N within the medical industry worldwide do you just not understand??

    Like

  276. jgc56
    November 3, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    “What part of F-R-A-U-D and C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N within the medical industry worldwide do you just not understand??”

    Their relevance to the subject under discussion.

    You do have SOME other argument to offer in support of your position other than “Routine vaccination is causally associated with autism spectrum disorders because F-R-A-U-D and C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N!”, don’t you?

    Like

  277. Chris
    November 3, 2015 at 9:04 pm

    G.D.: “What part of F-R-A-U-D ….”

    Because due to your fact free ramblings, it can be concluded that you are a fraud.

    Like

  278. Larry
    November 4, 2015 at 5:35 pm

    Great comments. I especially like the debate about acupuncture. I have tried it and believe it or not, it worked for me.

    As for funding for vaccinations, I am not sure I understand the problems.

    Like

  279. Gray Falcon
    November 4, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    Larry: “I have tried it and believe it or not, it worked for me.”

    That same argument has also been used to support bloodletting. There’s a reason why we demand evidence.

    Like

  280. Larry
    November 4, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    Gray Falcon,

    Who are you? Pretty harsh aren’t you?
    You choose to focus on my acupuncture statement and debate acupuncture rather then address my other statement about funding for vaccines which is what the post is about?
    Sounds like you may have some issues to get over before having a civil conversation with anybody.

    Like

  281. Lawrence
    November 4, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    Actually, trying to extrapolate a single instance of success across the entire acupuncture paradigm, is part of the problem – when one can’t see the problem with that, it leads to other incorrect assumptions about science.

    As to funding for vaccine programs – every vaccine given and every case of disease prevented is a net positive, both for the individual and society.

    Like

  282. Larry
    November 4, 2015 at 7:26 pm

    Lawrence, preposterous, I happen to believe in acupuncture and vaccines. Yet your logic would dictate that is impossible.

    Acupuncture works, why wouldn’t it? You don’t believe there are pressure points in the human body?

    Vaccines: Mainly work, but some are better than others and there are side effects and injuries, so pick them wisely.

    Like

  283. Lawrence
    November 4, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    Yet vaccines are supported by science, acupuncture is not.

    Like

  284. jgc56
    November 4, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    “Acupuncture works, why wouldn’t it?”

    I’m aware of no appropriately designed, controlled and blinded studies demonstrating acupuncture is more effective than placebos or sham acupuncture as a treatment for non-self limiting injuries or illnesses, Larry. Can you provide citations to such?.

    Like

  285. Larry
    November 5, 2015 at 4:06 pm

    Lawrence, all you have to do is Google “Pub Med acupuncture” and you will find 100’s of studies on acupuncture.
    Here is the very first one that comes up http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22965186

    Like

  286. Chris
    November 5, 2015 at 4:21 pm

    By the way, toothpicks work just as well:
    http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=414934

    🙂

    Like

  287. jgc56
    November 5, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    Larry, you’ll find a detailed analysis (far more detailed than I could provide in this forum) of the study you linked to explaining why it fails to represent credible evidence that acupuncture is clinically effective as a treatment for chronic pain at http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/09/12/can-we-finally-just-say-that-acupuncture-is-nothing-more-than-an-elaborate-placebo-can-we-2012-edition/.

    Like

  288. Larry
    November 5, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    I didn’t come here to debate acupuncture.
    I can find opinions, analysis’, and studies on any view I would like to support on any topic. I for one know that acupuncture works and the guy above who cured his dog does too. That is all that matters.

    Like

  289. Lawrence
    November 5, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    The great thing about science is that it doesn’t rely on “beliefs,” it just is.

    Like

  290. Gray Falcon
    November 5, 2015 at 4:57 pm

    Larry: Lots of people “know for a fact” that vaccines cause autism, or that witches place curses on people. We need evidence.

    Like

  291. Larry
    November 5, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    As I said Lawrence, just google “Pub Med Acupuncture” and you’ll find lots of positive studies on acupuncture. If you choose to belittle those studies, that is your prerogative.
    That’s the great thing about living in the USA, I don’t have to agree with your view.

    Like

  292. Larry
    November 5, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    Are you all so really bored that you want to argue about acupuncture? I thought this was a blog about vaccines?

    Like

  293. Lawrence
    November 5, 2015 at 5:09 pm

    No, you don’t….but the actual science doesn’t support acupuncture – which, in the form we know today, is nothing more than a sham made up by Chairman Mao to offer to the populace of China after he had the bulk of the medical professionals liquidated in the Cultural Revolution….

    Like

  294. Lawrence
    November 5, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    It is, and I am glad that you support them.

    Like

  295. Larry
    November 5, 2015 at 5:19 pm

    Lawrence, I’ve told you where to find the science, just because your choose to disregard it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. That is called ignorance.

    Like

  296. Lawrence
    November 5, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    Not recognizing where “acupuncture” came from, leads me to believe that you are unable to rationally gauge the science behind it – and why it isn’t supported.

    Like

  297. Larry
    November 5, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    I don’t care where it came from. I can read pub med studies and conclusions.

    Like

  298. Larry
    November 5, 2015 at 5:32 pm

    I don’t know too much about how vaccines came about or the science behind them, but I know they work. What else do I need to know about vaccines?

    Like

  299. Lawrence
    November 5, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    And I’m going to leave this here:

    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html

    Then perhaps we can get back on track.

    Like

  300. Larry
    November 5, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    Acupuncture worked for me and my Aunt has recovered 90% from Rheumatoid Arthritis from acupuncture, when ALL other conventional medicine FAILED.

    Like

  301. Lawrence
    November 5, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    The Bottom Line

    TCM theory and practice are not based upon the body of knowledge related to health, disease, and health care that has been widely accepted by the scientific community. TCM practitioners disagree among themselves about how to diagnose patients and which treatments should go with which diagnoses. Even if they could agree, the TCM theories are so nebulous that no amount of scientific study will enable TCM to offer rational care

    Like

  302. Larry
    November 5, 2015 at 6:34 pm

    Are you really listening to yourself?

    “TCM practitioners disagree among themselves about how to diagnose patients and which treatments should go with which diagnoses. Even if they could agree, the TCM theories are so nebulous that no amount of scientific study will enable TCM to offer rational care”

    This is no different then MD’s.

    Like

  303. Lawrence
    November 5, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    No, it is completely different – since there is a proven body of knowledge that drives the practice of medicine vs. the bs that drives what has become known as TCM (but there is nothing traditional or chinese about it).

    Like

  304. jgc56
    November 5, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    ” I for one know that acupuncture works and the guy above who cured his dog does too. That is all that matters.”

    How do you know it works? How do you know the acupuncture the dog received was the responsible for any improvements in his condition thereafter? It is, I trust, on some basis other than a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy?

    “Acupuncture worked for me and my Aunt has recovered 90% from Rheumatoid Arthritis from acupuncture, when ALL other conventional medicine FAILED.”
    Again, how have you established it actually was the acupuncture that was responsible for your aunt’s recovery? Describe the process.

    Like

  305. Larry
    November 6, 2015 at 5:28 pm

    jgc56, we know because we are not stupid.

    Like

  306. jgc56
    November 6, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    Whether your smart or stupid isn’t the issue–stupid people can sometimes get things right, after all, while even very smart people can get be mistaken. Describe the method by which you established that it was actually the acupuncture that was responsible for the improvement in your aunt’s RA, on any other basis that post oc ergo propter hoc or “I dunno–what else could it have been?”

    Like

  307. Larry
    November 6, 2015 at 5:47 pm

    You are very condescending. I’ll say it again, we’re not stupid, we can put two and two together. Don’t worry about us. My aunt feels great because of the acupuncture and that is all that counts.

    Like

  308. Gray Falcon
    November 6, 2015 at 5:50 pm

    Larry: Much of early medicine consisted of “My aunt feels great because we bled her” or “My aunt feels great because we hung the witch.” Try harder.

    Like

  309. jgc56
    November 6, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    How am I condescending? You’ve stated that acupuncture is responsible for a 90% improvement in your aunt’s RA, but when asked how you determined the acupuncture actually was the cause of her improvement all you seem able to offe in response takes the form “I just know”.

    So again: HOW do you know? I trust it’s founded in something more reliable than a simple temporal association (i.e., that the improvement occurred at some a point in time after she’d received the acupuncture).

    Like

  310. CL
    November 18, 2015 at 3:39 pm

    How about find/call your representatives and let them know you oppose mandated vaccines. Ask them to Sponsor “VACCINE FREE 2015” Legislation due to Poisonous Ingredients in vaccines.

    Like

  311. Gray Falcon
    November 18, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    CL, did you read the article you posted to?

    Like

  312. jgc56
    November 18, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    What vaccines do you believe are mandatory in the United States, CL? As far as I’m aware, unless you’re an active member of the US Armed Forces you can choose whether or not you’ll receive any and all vaccines.

    Like

  313. Lawrence
    November 18, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    I love the “poisons / toxins” argument – because my response is always – “well, water is toxic in large enough quantities – shouldn’t it be banned as well?”

    Like

  314. Jessica
    November 19, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    They are also mandatory for many health professionals.

    Like

  315. Chris
    November 19, 2015 at 7:17 pm

    Jessica: “They are also mandatory for many health professionals.”

    That is a good thing. When you have a loved one who has had to be hospitalized, it is nice to know that they are reducing the chance of them getting an infectious disease like influenza.

    I was very glad that the last two hospitals that my son was in, including the one where he got open heart surgery, require their staff to be fully vaccinated. Just like they require everyone to use the sanitizing hand gel upon entering and leaving the room.

    And why would you want to be cared for by a “health professional” who does not comply to public health protocols?

    CL: “due to Poisonous Ingredients in vaccines.”

    Please list the ingredients in the vaccines that are more toxic than tetanospasmin, with verifiable documentation to support your claim..

    Like

  316. jgc56
    November 20, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    I guess they’re “mandatory for many health professionals” in the same way that licensing is mandatory for many plumbers, electricians, and real estate agents–and just as is the case with plumbing, electrical contracting and selling real estate no one is being forced to pursue a career in health care but if you make the free choice to do I don’t see you have any valid complain about having to comply with the standards and requirements of that profession.

    Like

  317. Jessica
    November 23, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    uh, I have been a nurse for over 20 years and this was never required before. So I don’t have a valid complaint? Unbelievable.

    Like

  318. Lawrence
    November 24, 2015 at 7:47 am

    Nope, you don’t have a valid complaint.

    Protecting patients should be paramount.

    Like

  319. jgc56
    November 24, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    So your ‘valid’ complaint takes the form “But we never had to worry about needlessly increasing our patients’ risk of exposure to serious infectious diseases before-WAHHH!”? Really?

    Like

  320. Esther
    November 24, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    Great comments! Thanks, G.D., I copied your links to my desktop.

    Like

  321. Gray Falcon
    November 24, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    Esther: If you want to contribute to this conversation, do something other than brown-nose.

    Like

  322. Michael Jessop, MD
    November 25, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    On the contrary, not only does Jessica have a valid complaint, she may have a valid law suit as well. Depending on her employer, work history, policies, etc. There has been about an 83% success rate with similar litigation most recently.
    Jessica, contact an attorney if you are unwilling to get vaccinated but want to keep your job.
    Best of luck.

    Like

  323. Gray Falcon
    November 25, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    Mr. Jessop, does she have a right to show up to work drunk, as well?

    No, I’m not calling you a doctor. If you were a doctor, you’d know why you don’t want to spread diseases to people who are already in bad condition.

    Like

  324. jgc56
    November 25, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    Could you describe what that similar litigation actually addressed? I’m curious if it were requiring health care workers to be vaccine-compliant, or the legality of offering workers an alternative choice of receiving the vaccine or wearing a mask, or the legality of refusing workers an exemption for a secular objection while allowing religious exemptions.

    Like

  325. Barbara
    December 4, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    Why are we funding a third party’s product???? The pharmaceutical companies make trillions of dollars and my taxes need to fund their efforts? Get real! Fight this people – this is absurd!!

    Like

  326. jgc56
    December 4, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    The same reason we fund food banks, even though the foods they distribute represent 3rd party products. And we fund the military, even though the guns, bullets, uniforms, vehicles, etc. represent third party products. And we fund public education, even though the books, chalkboards, chairs, desks, etc. represent third party products. And we fund….well, I trust you get the picture.

    We fund them because they provide significant material benefits to our society as a whole: fewer families and children going hungry, ,The ability to respond to effectively respond to threats to our national security and interests. An educated society resulting in a healthy and productive economy. And in the case of vaccine programs, significant reduction in illness, suffering and deaths due to infectious diseases, significant financial savings in terms of not only the costs associated with treating rather than preventing disease but also preventing lost productivity.

    TLDR version? We do it because we all benefit greatly as a consequence.

    Like

  327. Chris
    December 4, 2015 at 9:07 pm

    Barbara: “The pharmaceutical companies make trillions of dollars and my taxes need to fund their efforts?”

    Because supporting public health measures is cheaper than paying for the consequences. It is much cheaper to prevent diseases, than to treat them (sometimes with public medicare funds). This is one reason why sewage treatment infrastructure and flood control systems are on our property tax bills. Here is some reading for you:

    An economic analysis of the current universal 2-dose measles-mumps-rubella vaccination program in the United States

    and (see how much it cost MediCal, California’s health insurance for low income):

    Pediatric hospital admissions for measles. Lessons from the 1990 epidemic.

    If you have evidence that pharmaceutical companies would get less profits from treating the one out ten who get measles in the hospital (usually for pneumonia) than they get by selling two MMR vaccines for each child, please present it. Make sure meets the caliber of the linked studies.

    Like

  328. Lawrence
    December 5, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    And no, they don’t make “trillions” of dollars….you might be thinking about oil companies.

    Like

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