Home > Expert Insights, In the News, Preventable Diseases > Serogroup B Meningococcal Vaccine Approved But Awaiting CDC Recommendations

Serogroup B Meningococcal Vaccine Approved But Awaiting CDC Recommendations

This mMeningococcalonth another college student succumbed to a strain of meningitis that is not covered in the currently recommended meningococcal vaccine. In 2013 and 2014 outbreaks of serogroup B meningococcal disease occurred at Princeton University and University of California’s Santa Barbara (UCSB) campuses, prompting health officials to request special permission from the Food and Drug Administration to utilize a vaccine that is not currently licensed in the United States. More than 5,000 Princeton University students received the first dose of the MenB vaccine in December 2013, and more than 4,700 students received the second dose in February 2014. At UCSB, as many as 9,000 students received the first dose in February and March 2014 and more than 7,000 received the second dose in April 2014.

While some questioned the wisdom of using a vaccine that had yet to be licensed here in the U.S., clinical trials in other countries have shown that the same vaccine met safety and efficacy standards that cleared the way for licensure in the European Union, Canada, and Australia back in 2013. More than one million doses of the vaccine have since been distributed to over 30 countries where the vaccine was licensed, with little to no sign of serious adverse events. And, it has been determined that there have been no unusual patterns or occurrence of serious reactions reported among the students vaccinated here in the U.S.

Two different manufacturers (Pfizer and Novartis) have sought FDA approval of their MenB vaccines. Yesterday Pfizer received final approval and Novartis will be informed regarding the FDA’s decision in the next few months. In anticipation, the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), a group of medical and public health experts that develop vaccine recommendations to help control diseases in the U.S., has been receiving reports from their meningococcal subcommittee. This subcommittee is tasked with investigating the epidemiology of this disease and the results of the clinical trials. These reports become critical in helping the ACIP to ultimately vote on whether the vaccines will be recommended to the public once approved and under what parameters.

Of course, this will be no easy job. It’s important to understand that there are five main serogroups (“strains”) of meningococcal bacteria: A, B, C, Y, and W. The most common ones that cause disease in the United States are B, C, and Y. Our current U.S. meningococcal vaccine covers the A,C, Y and W strains, but not serogroup B. The strain prevalence often varies by country. For instance, Australia and Europe see far more cases of serogroup B than we do here in the U.S. However, in 2012, there were about 500 total cases of meningococcal disease in the U.S, and 160 of those cases were caused by serogroup B. According to a presentation made at today’s ACIP meeting, in the years spanning from 1998-2012 there have been an average of 50 cases of serogroup B meningococcal disease per year in 18-24 year olds. When factoring in the recent outbreaks, serogroup B now causes 40% of all meningococcal disease cases among 11-24 year olds.

While statistically speaking, an average of 50 cases a year may not sound like a lot, how can one quantify the number of deaths, and life-long disabilities caused by meningococcal disease that is considered acceptable?

Unfortunately, while meningococcal disease may not be highly prevalent, the disease can result in devastating consequences. Jessica MacNeil, who presented the epidemiology data on behalf of the CDC at this morning’s ACIP meeting, noted that there is a 12.4% fatality rate for serogroup B meningococcal disease.

A common outcome of meningococcal infection is meningitis, in which a bacterium infects the protective membranes covering the brain and spinal cord. Symptoms typically develop quickly and, in fatal cases, deaths can occur in as little as a few hours. In non-fatal cases, permanent disabilities can include hearing loss and brain damage. Another common outcome is bloodstream infection in which the bacteria enters the bloodstreams and multiplies, damaging the walls of the blood vessels and causing bleeding into the skin and organs. This type of infection is also very serious and again fatality can occur in as little as a few hours. In non-fatal cases, permanent disabilities can include amputation of toes, fingers, or limbs and severe scarring as a result of skin grafts.

Having the privilege of knowing some very courageous and inspirational survivors of meningitis, I would say that as a parent I want to do all I can to protect my children from this disease. Knowing that a vaccine is now licensed makes me eager to know how soon it will be available and what the ACIPs recommendations will be.

Just this summer, before my oldest daughter headed to college, I made sure she had her meningococcal booster (which covers the A, C, Y and W strains). However, with the ongoing outbreaks in university settings, I worry that she is not yet protected against the serogroup B strain. But it’s not just about my college-aged daughter. I have four others I want to protect. And I know lots of parents who would want to do the same. Unfortunately, there are many parents who don’t realize that the current meningococcal vaccine leaves their children susceptible to the serogroup B strain. And even some parents who are not aware of the current vaccine and the fact that it is recommended for all children between the ages of 11-12, with a booster shot at age 16. This is why I’ve been following the ACIP’s discussion of the new serogroup B vaccine for some time.

It appears that at the February 2015 ACIP meeting the committee will be discussing the use of MenB vaccine in persons 10 years of age and older for those with high-risk medical conditions, microbiologists and to address ongoing outbreaks. There is a planned vote on recommendations specifically for high risk groups. Then, at their upcoming June and October 2015 meetings, they will review the evidence for recommending the vaccine for expanded target groups, while also reviewing the economic and impact analysis.

While today’s ACIP presentation resulted in many answers, it also prompted more questions for me:

Does the prevalence of the serogroup B strain necessitate a vaccine recommendation for all children, or just for those people considered high risk? And, knowing that there have been, on average, about 50 cases per year in the 18-24 age group, will this age group be considered high risk?
Since 1/3 of the cases of MenB are among college students, will college students be considered in the high risk category? If so, aren’t we missing the opportunity to protect the remaining 2/3 of 18-24 year olds who appear to also be at risk, though not attending college?

Additionally, if the vaccine is recommended only for use in high risk and outbreak situations, it’s quite possible that a severe case or death will have to occur before the outbreak recommendation is implemented.  In those instances, how will immunization efforts be coordinated in response to these outbreaks? In the cases of Princeton and UCSB, the universities paid for and facilitated mass vaccination clinics. Will the universities be expected to take responsibility, or will parents need to coordinate the receipt of the vaccine for their children independently?

While the current adolescent schedule includes meningococcal vaccine that is administered initially between the ages of 11-12, followed with a booster dose at 16 along with their Tdap booster and HPV vaccine series, the new MenB vaccine will be administered as a separate vaccine requiring multiple doses for optimal immunity. How will this additional vaccine be incorporated into the current immunization schedule and what steps will be taken to ensure parents and providers are aware of the changes to the schedule? At today’s meeting, Cynthia Pellegrini, a current member of the Adolescent Immunization Working Group, urged the committee to make a recommendation that aligns with the current adolescent schedule, prompting me to consider just how complicated the delivery of vaccines can be with the varied age recommendations.

Even though one of the MenB vaccine has been approved, there are still some questions as to how parents can get their children vaccinated prior to formal ACIP recommendations.  I plan to continue to follow the ongoing discussions of the MenB vaccine and the ACIP’s efforts to prevent additional cases of such a debilitating disease. If you have further questions for consideration, please add them to the comments below so we can work to address them in follow-up posts.

  1. October 30, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    Reblogged this on Jessica A Bruno (waybeyondfedup).

    Like

  2. October 30, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    This is so exciting. Even if the number of people affected is relatively low, this disease is so devestating. Being able to save lives and prevent life-long disability is a huge gift to our country. Thank you!

    Like

  3. Lawrence
    November 1, 2014 at 9:03 am

    I’ll be very interested to see what the final recommendations will be – there are a lot of factors to weigh, including the timing of the vaccine administration & whether or not it’ll become a requirement for admission to colleges….

    Like

  4. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 1:46 pm

    50 cases a year is not worth the risk of throwing yet another vaccine in the mix. Soon, we’ll be taking hundreds of vaccines a year. Sounds healthy doesn’t it.

    Like

  5. Jim Polk
    November 4, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    I agree, Spencer. Not worth the risk.

    Like

  6. Lawrence
    November 4, 2014 at 2:29 pm

    @Spencer – so you don’t care when college kids get this disease & die?

    Personally, adding a vaccine for much older teens as a requirement before College isn’t really much to ask, right?

    Disease prevention is always a good thing – especially in conditions like college dormitories.

    Like

  7. Lawrence
    November 4, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    Oh, and “hundreds” of vaccines per year? Most vaccines are given, at most, twice a lifetime (and a number of them are only given once)….so who is “scaremongering” here?

    Like

  8. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    @law
    I do care about college kids, but I also think more people will be injured by the vaccine than the amount of 50 cases per year.
    Most vaccines need booster shots now and more and more boosters are going to be needed and also don’t forget they are making vaccines for everything now. Soon you will be getting a vaccine to lose weight or to grow hair or to get a date.

    Like

  9. Lawrence
    November 4, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    @Spencer – how about some “evidence” or proof? Otherwise, you’re only repeating anti-vax talking points.

    Like

  10. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    Really? 50 cases? I guarantee there are more than 50 vaccine injuries every year. “anti-vax” talking points? You are hilarious. Yes, I just read the anti-vax book and can only conjure up their thoughts. I have no brain myself.

    Like

  11. Lawrence
    November 4, 2014 at 4:44 pm

    @Spencer – that’s what I thought….

    Like

  12. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 5:44 pm

    So you don’t believe there are at least 50 vaccine injuries per year? You should really do your research. Your attitude is very unbecoming.

    Like

  13. Lawrence
    November 4, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    @Spencer – vaccine reactions occur, of course they do. Serious reactions, however, are extremely rare. Certainly, a vaccine that would prevent a disease that can easily kill (like the one referenced in this article) is a very good thing….especially in situations like College, for instance, where the disease can spread rapidly and affect a large number of individuals.

    And yes, you are doing very well in “anti-vax” bingo, since you are already well on your way to using a variety of anti-vaccine tropes in your posts.

    Vaccines have a safety profile that should be envy of not only every medical product or drug, but of any manufactured item anywhere……

    If you have any specific evidence to offer to the contrary – I invite you to do so. Otherwise, you’ve got nothing.

    Like

  14. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    So you are not going to answer the question? That’s what I thought.

    Like

  15. Lawrence
    November 4, 2014 at 6:11 pm

    @Spencer – you’ve provided nothing but an opinion backed up by what we would typically hear from an anti-vax troll.

    So, if you’d like to provide anything at all, evidence-wise, to back up your initial assertion, well then, that would be something.

    Otherwise, you’re making light of a disease that has, is, and will kill people – I would prefer that action be taken to approve this vaccine appropriately, so that people don’t die in the future – or even have to suffer from infection.

    Like

  16. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 6:14 pm

    Instead of spending your time insulting me why don’t you just answer the question?

    Like

  17. Lawrence
    November 4, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    No, I rather prefer pointing out that you’ve provided no actual evidence to support your initial contention or any you’ve made since.

    Like

  18. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    That’s what I thought.

    Like

  19. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 6:25 pm

    I will answer the question for you. Yes, there are more than 50 vaccine injuries in a year.

    Like

  20. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 6:25 pm

    There were 611 vaccine injuries reported just last month. Compared to the 50 cases in a whole year. It’s a no-brainer.

    http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/statisticsreport.pdf

    Like

  21. November 4, 2014 at 7:01 pm

    @Spencer – and this is related to a vaccine that hasn’t even been added to the schedule yet (and not applicable to your link) how exactly?

    Like

  22. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 7:05 pm

    Uh, yes it is applicable as this vaccine will also cause injuries and many more than the 50 cases a year it may (and that’s a big may) help.

    Like

  23. November 4, 2014 at 7:15 pm

    Prove it and how many vaccines do College-age teens get, anyway?

    Like

  24. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    The proof is in the pudding, all other vaccines injure and this one won’t be any different. As I stated in my very first comment. The vaccine injury risk is not worth getting this vaccine.

    Like

  25. November 4, 2014 at 7:24 pm

    Your opinion is great comfort to those who die of this disease.

    You are a monster.

    Like

  26. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 7:29 pm

    Just made me laugh out loud! Monster? 50 cases a year and what 10% death rate?
    Now Monster, tell me how many die from vaccines every year? Hint, see the link I provided above. I guess you don’t care about all of those deaths and I guess you can’t do math and risk analysis very well either.

    Like

  27. November 4, 2014 at 7:37 pm

    Hmmmm….hundreds of millions of vaccines given and less than 4000 compensated?

    Your risk analysis is seriously screwed up.

    Now screw off….

    Like

  28. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    Just what I thought, you don’t care about 4000 injuries or all the others that weren’t compensated. That how you view the injuries? Only if a person was compensated?

    Monster!

    Like

  29. November 4, 2014 at 7:58 pm

    You are 1000x more likely to be injured or killed operating a motor vehicle than by receiving a vaccine, so please tell us how you never drive in a car…..

    Or better yet, tell us how you feel about the hundreds of thousands and millions of people who were harmed by vaccine preventable diseases…..

    We’re done here – and you are an anti-vaccine troll.

    Like

  30. Spencer Love
    November 4, 2014 at 8:46 pm

    I am not comparing motor vehicle accidents to vaccine injuries. I am comparing vaccine injuries to 50 cases a year of Meningitis. The risks outweigh the benefits of this vaccine.

    Also, “It appears that at the February 2015 ACIP meeting the committee will be discussing the use of MenB vaccine in persons 10 years of age and older for those with high-risk medical conditions,”

    Not a smart move to vaccinate those with high risk medical conditions. Something the medical community can’t quite seem to figure out.

    I am done here – and you are a pro-vaccine troll. No using your brains or thinking for yourself, sad really.

    Like

  31. Chris
    November 4, 2014 at 9:59 pm

    Lawrence: “Hmmmm….hundreds of millions of vaccines given and less than 4000 compensated?”

    It is billions of vaccines. According to the link that Spencer gave the “No. of Doses Distributed US CY 2006 – CY 2013” is 2,236,678,735 . The total number that were compensated was 1595. That is one claim compensated for 1,402,300 doses.

    Now the row for meningococcal shows only 25 claims compensated for 58,412,363 doses. That is one claim compensated for 2,336,494 doses.

    And remember that proof to get a claim compensated is very low, so something other than the vaccine could have caused the injury. Since 2006 there have been less than three cases of meningococcal vaccine compensations per year. How is that more than fifty actual cases of the disease per year?

    “I am done here – and you are a pro-vaccine troll. No using your brains or thinking for yourself, sad really.”

    Interesting coming from someone who cannot calculate a simple ratio.

    Like

  32. Lawrence
    November 5, 2014 at 6:41 am

    @Chris – I was attempting to give “Spencer” the benefit of the doubt by not including the Influenza vaccine numbers & concentrate the ratio on only those vaccines that are part of the Pediatric Schedule (routine)….hence the hundreds of millions number, though going back and looking at the numbers again, it appears that we are still talking about 1.2 Billion vaccines (that aren’t influenza), so I should have said over “1 Billion.”

    What it still means is that “Spencer” can’t calculate odds ratios – he is comparing “reactions” across all vaccines to a single vaccine (which in itself, doesn’t make sense), and he also never defined “vaccine injury” which seems to be a nebulous idea – much like “toxins” which allows the anti-vaxers to cram in whatever they feel like as a definition, without the requirements for being specific (or provide evidence).

    Like

  33. Chris
    November 5, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    I did not know you were excluding influenza vaccines. But I was surprised with I took the ratio of the number of other meningococcal vaccine doses versus compensated claim the number was over two million.

    I also found Spencer’s lack of compassion for the fifty cases per year of this very serious disease troubling. He obviously has no idea what it is like to have a college age child go through so much suffering.

    Like

  34. jgc56
    November 5, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    “I do care about college kids, but I also think more people will be injured by the vaccine than the amount of 50 cases per year.”

    Details please, Spencer. Why do you believe this, what injuries are you concerned about, and what evidence demonstrates a causal association with vaccination?

    “Yes, there are more than 50 vaccine injuries in a year.”

    Which in the absence of context doesn’t tell us anything, does it Spencer? There are, after all, way more than 50 infectious disease injuires a year as well.

    The meaningful question is whether the risks associated with being vaccinated–the likelihood you will suffer a ‘vaccine injury’–are greater than the risks associated with remaining vulnerable to infection–i.e., the liklihood you will instead suffer an ‘infectious disease injury’.

    Consider on of the known side effects of MMR vaccination, encephalopathy. It’s an adverse outcome that occurs rareli, in 1 out of every 1 million MMR vaccinations given. It’s also however a relatively common adverse event associated with measles itself, occurring in 1 out of every 1 thousand measles infections. If you’re reall concerned about avoiding this injury, the evidence is clear: you want to be vaccinated with MMR.

    Like

  35. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 8:01 pm

    And Chris obviously has no idea what it is like to have a child go through so much suffering after a vaccine injury. That is troubling and must explain his/her lack of compassion.

    Like

  36. November 6, 2014 at 8:29 pm

    @spencer – wow, you really stepped in it this time .

    Chris’ child is disabled due to the side effects of a vaccine preventable disease.

    You are officially persona non grata….

    Like

  37. Chris
    November 6, 2014 at 8:53 pm

    What’s worse, he is probably one of our frequent name morphing trolls so should already know that. He has probably refused to answer which vaccine causes more seizures than the diseases multiple times.

    Like

  38. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 10:10 pm

    So I was correct, Chris DOES NOT have a vaccine injured child, so this explains his/her lack of compassion for vaccine injured children.

    Like

  39. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 10:12 pm

    Here are the clients of just one law firm representing people with vaccine injuries.

    http://www.mctlawyers.com/vaccine-injury/cases/

    Like

  40. Lawrence
    November 6, 2014 at 10:19 pm

    @Chris – ignore him, he’s proven to be a complete ass.

    Like

  41. jgc56
    November 6, 2014 at 10:22 pm

    Spencer, regarding your link to the clients of the law firm representing people claiming vaccine injuries–did you have a point?

    Surely you realize that it does nothing to support a claim that the risks associated with vaccination exceed the risks associated with remaining vulnerable to infection.

    Like

  42. Chris
    November 6, 2014 at 10:39 pm

    Sockpuppet: “Chris DOES NOT have a vaccine injured child, so this explains his/her lack of compassion for vaccine injured children.”

    My son was injured by an actual disease. I have sympathy for all disabled children, it is just that you have not provided any proof that the vaccines are dangerous. What you need to do now is to provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that vaccines cause more seizures than the diseases.

    Like

  43. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    Lawrence,

    Here’s what Chris said, “He obviously has no idea what it is like to have a college age child go through so much suffering.”

    Guess what, I don’t, why? Because I have a vaccine injured child, so maybe Chris “really stepped in it” What a stupid expression.

    Jgc56, it proves that it is more common than you would have us believe. Stop blowing off the vaccine injured.

    Like

  44. Chris
    November 6, 2014 at 10:41 pm

    “Because I have a vaccine injured child, so maybe Chris “really stepped in it” What a stupid expression.”

    Prove it. Post the NVICP court ruling where you were awarded compensation for the vaccine injury.

    Like

  45. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 10:48 pm

    You prove it Chris!!

    Like

  46. Chris
    November 6, 2014 at 10:51 pm

    And when you are done provide the PubMed indexed studies that show “vaccine injuries” happen at a rate equal to the injuries caused by the actual diseases. Since measles causes encephalitis in one out of a thousand cases, you need to prove that vaccines harm that number.

    About four million children are born each year in the USA, you need to show that 4,000,000/1000 are injured by vaccines each year. That is four thousand each year. You need to find those numbers, because they are not on the NVICP statistics page. In fact there are less than four thousand compensated claims for the last twenty six years.

    Like

  47. Chris
    November 6, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    You made the claim that your child is vaccine injured, it is up to you prove it.

    Until then there is: Vaccine Safety: Examine the Evidence

    And.. Historical Comparisons of Morbidity and Mortality for Vaccine-Preventable Diseases in the United States

    Like

  48. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    Oh I see, you have compassion for all disabled children, unless they were injured by a vaccine. Because in your mind vaccines aren’t dangerous, therefore my kid doesn’t count. I think Lawrence likes to use the term Monster, which is what you sound like.

    Like

  49. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 10:58 pm

    You made the claim your child was injured by a disease, so up to you to prove it.

    WTF are those links? Again, blowing off my child. Worse than a Monster.

    Like

  50. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 11:00 pm

    Also, since vaccines are not 100% effective you don’t know a child won’t get a disease even if vaccinated. And, if a child is susceptible, a vaccine may trigger the disease or worse.

    Like

  51. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 11:04 pm

    You think the only vaccine injuries are those that are compensated? That is a little tiny, tiny fraction of the injuries. You better think again.

    Like

  52. jgc56
    November 6, 2014 at 11:05 pm

    Spencer, what injury do you believe your son suffered as a result of vaccines, and how has you factually established that the injury you believe was caused by the vaccine actually was caused by the vaccine? It is on some basis other than a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy, I trust.

    Like

  53. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 11:05 pm

    So 4 million children are born each year and you think they are all vaccinated?

    Like

  54. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 11:07 pm

    Yes you trust.

    Like

  55. jgc56
    November 6, 2014 at 11:09 pm

    “Jgc56, it proves that it is more common than you would have us believe.”

    It does nothing, however, to support a claim that the risks associated with routine vaccination exceed the risks associated with remaining vulnerable to infection.

    Like

  56. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 11:14 pm

    That’s all you people care about, percentages. People are not percentages they are real people.

    You make such a blanket claim. Not all vaccines are a like and not all diseases are the same. You have to weight the vaccine, effectiveness etc, and also the disease it is aiming to protect. When you do that, you come up with all sorts of different risk/benefit scenarios.

    Like

  57. jgc56
    November 6, 2014 at 11:28 pm

    “Also, since vaccines are not 100% effective you don’t know a child won’t get a disease even if vaccinated.”

    Might want to google “Nirvana fallacy”, spencer. I’m curious, do you apply this standard of “100% effectiveness” to preventive measures other than vaccines? Do you believe seat belts and smoke alarms are without value because they cannot guarantee absolutely no one at all will ever be injured in an car accident or fire?

    While vaccines cannot guarantee that no vaccinated individual will become infected, it has been demonstrated that they significantly reduce the likelihood that one will become infected. For example, 97% of the people who receive the MMR vaccine will develop a protective antibody titer against mumps. By what rational argument is 97% efficacy insufficient benefit?

    ” And, if a child is susceptible, a vaccine may trigger the disease or worse.”

    What evidence demonstrates the risk a child will be ‘susceptible’ and as a consequence suffer a vaccine injury is greater than the risks associated with remaining vulnerable to infection? Be specific.

    “That is a little tiny, tiny fraction of the injuries.”

    Citation needed:what vaccine injuries do you believe are being compensated for, what fraction of all vaccine injuries do these represent, and most critically how has it been demonstrated that these injuries are actually are caused by routine vaccination?

    Like

  58. jgc56
    November 6, 2014 at 11:47 pm

    “When you do that, you come up with all sorts of different risk/benefit scenarios.”

    Agreed, which is why the recommended childhood vaccination schedule only includes those vaccines for whose relative risk/benefit ratio is sufficient to support their inclusion.

    Like

  59. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 11:48 pm

    No Nirvana Fallacy here. I said that because that is the attitude you all have. If you get the vaccine you won’t get the disease, and just as you said, you cannot guarantee it. Your 97% efficacy is missing the other part of the equation and that is the injuries and/or possible future health issues or autoimmune diseases. So you see it is not just about the 97%. Plus, one must prove it is 97% anyway. The pertussis vaccine sure isn’t at 97% and the flu vaccine is very ineffective. This goes back to your blanket statement. One must analyze the vaccine, and the disease, and there will be many different benefit/risk scenarios.

    “What evidence demonstrates the risk a child will be ‘susceptible’ and as a consequence suffer a vaccine injury is greater than the risks associated with remaining vulnerable to infection? Be specific.”
    No evidence, again this is not a one size fits all. I know a person that got the mumps from the MMR vaccine and went into cardiac arrest.

    “Citation needed:what vaccine injuries do you believe are being compensated for, what fraction of all vaccine injuries do these represent, and most critically how has it been demonstrated that these injuries are actually are caused by routine vaccination?”

    Citation needed for what? You believe that the only vaccine injuries are the ones that get compensated. Many don’t get compensated at all and that’s after 2-3 years of BS and there are many vaccine injuries that are not reported. One would have to be not too bright to think that the only injuries are those that are compensated.

    Like

  60. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 11:51 pm

    “Agreed, which is why the recommended childhood vaccination schedule only includes those vaccines for whose relative risk/benefit ratio is sufficient to support their inclusion.”

    BS, HepB, Flu, HPV, Chicken Pox, Pertussis are all perfect examples. If you look at the disease and/or how effective the vaccine is, none of these vaccines would qualify.
    Polio?

    Like

  61. Spencer Love
    November 6, 2014 at 11:57 pm

    HepB for a new born, way too young to get a vaccine and for risk of getting HepB? Only if the mother is infected.

    Flu – One of the least effective vaccines and only work if you have influenza. 90% of the time people have flu symptoms and not influenza.

    HPV – awful, awful vaccine.

    Chicken Pox – the disease is very low risk for major complications.

    Pertussis – doesn’t even work and is so bad, the solutions is to give everybody a booster every year. And people who get vaccinated can be infected and spread it without have any symptoms.

    Polio – no Polio in the US.

    Like

  62. Chris
    November 7, 2014 at 12:20 am

    The sock puppet: “You made the claim your child was injured by a disease, so up to you to prove it.”

    Actually, I can do that. I have the medical records, and there is no equivalent of the NCIVP for disease injuries. Except it would just be another anecdote, and those are worthless. You just have to go by the reported statistical evidence, which I have provided many times.

    “And, if a child is susceptible, a vaccine may trigger the disease or worse.”

    And why would they not suffer even more with the actual disease?

    “You think the only vaccine injuries are those that are compensated? That is a little tiny, tiny fraction of the injuries. You better think again.”

    Ah, I see your NVICP claim was dismissed. Perhaps that is because you had no actual evidence. Because just like this blog, the legal system does not take a blanket “Because I said so!” as evidence.

    “HepB for a new born, way too young to get a vaccine and for risk of getting HepB? Only if the mother is infected.”

    Factually wrong.

    “Flu – One of the least effective vaccines and only work if you have influenza. 90% of the time people have flu symptoms and not influenza.”

    Factually wrong. Trust me, you do not want real influenza. Plus even 60% effectiveness is better than 0%.

    “HPV – awful, awful vaccine.”

    Citation needed. By this I mean real PubMed indexed studies by qualified reputable researchers.

    “Chicken Pox – the disease is very low risk for major complications.”

    So says the father who goes to work and leaves all of the work to the mom. I had an entire sleepless month due to chicken pox in three kids. This is due to a six month old baby getting it, and a very sick six year old who kept wetting his sheets. Only a very very sadistic person would with a child to get up to two weeks of dozens of itchy open sores.

    “Pertussis – doesn’t even work and is so bad,..”

    Nirvana Fallacy. Guess what, Ms. Parker… the disease doesn’t confer perfect immunity either. You have been told this several times. It is idiocy to expect a vaccine to provide better immunity than the actual disease.

    “Polio – no Polio in the US.”

    Because of vaccination!

    Like

  63. jgc56
    November 7, 2014 at 12:22 am

    “No Nirvana Fallacy here.”
    So you agree that the fact that vaccines are not 100% effective is an invalid crutucusm? Why then did you raise the point?

    “I said that because that is the attitude you all have.”
    Demonstrably false, since I don’t ‘have that attitude’ and have never claimed that vaccination guarantees one won’t become infected.

    “Your 97% efficacy is missing the other part of the equation and that is the injuries and/or possible future health issues or autoimmune diseases.”
    Which is exactly why I keep asking you to provide evidence demonstrating that the risks associated with vaccination exceed the risks associated with remaining vulnerable to disease. To date you’ve offered nothing.

    “So you see it is not just about the 97%. Plus, one must prove it is 97% anyway. The pertussis vaccine sure isn’t at 97% and the flu vaccine is very ineffective.”
    What constitutes “very ineffective”? Be specific.

    “This goes back to your blanket statement. One must analyze the vaccine, and the disease, and there will be many different benefit/risk scenarios.”
    What risk/benefit assessment argues against receiving a seasonal flu vaccine?

    “No evidence, again this is not a one size fits all.”
    Thank you for admitting that your concern vaccination may trigger ‘the disease or worse’ in susceptible individuals is entirely without merit.

    “I know a person that got the mumps from the MMR vaccine and went into cardiac arrest.”
    Here you’re the one ignoring the other part of the equation–the risks associated with remaining vulnerable to infection. In the USA, mumps caused an average of one death per year in the decade from 1980-1999. It ‘s seen to cause encephalitis with an incidence of 2 per 100,000 cases and deafness in 5 per 100,000 cases]. Infection in older males can also result in sterility, but this is not a risk to the under five population.

    “Citation needed for what?”
    Your claim that the cases where vaccine injuries have been compensated represent ‘a little tiny, tiny fraction” of all instances of vaccine injuries.

    “You believe that the only vaccine injuries are the ones that get compensated.”
    Actually, I believe that he cases where people have been compensated for vaccine injury includes a substantial number of cases where compensation has been paid but vaccine injury has occurred, as a consequence of the no fault nature of the NVICP and the fact that 90% of all settlements have been for table injuries where there is no requirement causality be demonstrated.

    “Many don’t get compensated at all and that’s after 2-3 years of BS and there are many vaccine injuries that are not reported.”
    In what circumstances do people not receive compensation, other than failing to report injury? I’m guessing the majority of these cases would be ones in which no causal association tween the claimed injury and vaccination can be demonstrated.

    “One would have to be not too bright to think that the only injuries are those that are compensated.”
    One would also have to be not too bright to think that a significant portion of claimed injuries which did not receive compensation were actually a consequence of vaccination.

    Like

  64. jgc56
    November 7, 2014 at 12:28 am

    “HepB, Flu, HPV, Chicken Pox, Pertussis are all perfect examples.”

    Let’s start with your perfect example of Chicken Pox.

    Before vaccination, in the US, there were 4 million cases (mostly children) every year, requiring 10 to 13 thousand hospitalizations and causing 100 to 150 deaths.

    Does routine childhood vaccination against chicken pox cause more than 4 million people to become ill every year?

    Does routine childhood vaccination against chicken pox cause more than 10 to 13 thousand people to require hospitalization every year?

    Does routine childhood vaccination against chicken pox cause more than 100 to 150 deaths every year?

    Like

  65. novalox
    November 7, 2014 at 12:42 am

    @spencer

    Since you have proven yourself to have no empathy and no evidence for your assertions, we can only assume that you must be a sociopath who just wants children to suffer from VPDs, as well as admitting that you have been lying to us the entire time and admit that vaccines are beneficial to children.

    I truly pity your child, who has to live with such a vile person.

    Like

  66. jgc56
    November 7, 2014 at 12:48 am

    “HepB for a new born, way too young to get a vaccine and for risk of getting HepB? Only if the mother is infected.”

    Visit “https://shotofprevention.com/2010/05/06/why-infants-should-receive-the-hepatitis-b-vaccine-at-birth/” to see why this isn’t true.

    “Flu – One of the least effective vaccines and only work if you have influenza.flu vaccines aren’t effective because they ”
    You’re arguing that flu vaccines aren’t effective because they don’t protect from diseases other than flu? Seriously?

    “HPV – awful, awful vaccine.”
    What evidence supports this characterization? be specific.

    “Chicken Pox – the disease is very low risk for major complications.”
    By what major argument is vaccination’s only benefit preventing ;major complications’, however you’re choosing to define these? By what rational argument is preventing 4 million cases and 10 to 13 thousand hospitalizations each year insufficient benefit?

    “Pertussis – doesn’t even work and is so bad”
    Contrary to our claim the pertussis vaccine does work: See http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/824232 for a discussion of a recent (2014) study, which found that vaccine effectiveness ranged from 95% (95% CI [confidence interval], 92%–97%) among children 15–47 months of age to 47% (19%–65%) among adolescents 13–16 years of age, and that being unvaccinated against pertussis was significantly associated with higher disease incidence for every age cohort studied.

    ““Polio – no Polio in the US”
    That would be because we vaccinate against, spencer.

    Like

  1. November 6, 2014 at 4:02 am

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