Home > Preventable Diseases > Measles Outbreaks Are Concerning, Even to the Vaccinated

Measles Outbreaks Are Concerning, Even to the Vaccinated

Last week  New York City health officials announced that there was a measles outbreak in Manhattan and the Bronx. So far they have identified 16 cases of measles, representing the worst outbreak in the state in the past 17 years.

After sharing this news with our Vaccinate Your Baby Facebook followers, we began receiving inquiries about measles and the concern of outbreaks.  Below I’ve addressed some of the more common questions, and hopefully they will help people understand why outbreaks are a concern for everyone, even the vaccinated.

What’s the big deal?  Is measles even that dangerous?

This child with measles displays the characteristic red, blotchy pattern on his face and body during the third day of the rash.    Source: American Academy of Pediatrics, Red Book Online Visual Library

This child with measles displays the characteristic red, blotchy pattern on his face and body during the third day of the rash.
Source: American Academy of Pediatrics, Red Book Online Visual Library

Measles is certainly unpleasant, but it can also be quite dangerous. As many as one in three people with measles develop complications to include pneumonia, miscarriage, brain inflammation, hospitalization and even death.  Infants under one year of age, people who have a weakened immune system and non-immune pregnant women’s are at highest risk of severe illness and  complications.  One out of 1,000 people with measles will develop inflammation of the brain, and about one out of 1,000 will die.

How contagious is measles?

One of the most challenging things about containing the spread of measles is that it is highly contagious.  The virus resides in the mucus of the nose and throat and once an infected person sneezes or coughs, droplets spray into the air and spread the disease to others.  The most amazing part is that the droplets remain active and contagious on infected surfaces for hours.  Therefore, you could be in the same place that an infected person once was, and still get sick even if you never encounter them face to face.

How effective is the measles vaccine?

Fortunately, the measles vaccine (which is part of the MMR vaccine) is highly effective against the virus, especially after the recommended two doses.  About 95 of every 100 children will develop immunity after one shot (typically administered between 12-15 months), and about 99 of 100 children will develop immunity to measles after two shots (with the second shot recommended between 4-6 years). Immunizing that additional 4 percent of children a second time is important when trying to protect against a disease as highly contagious as measles. However, with the challenges we’ve faced in obtaining global vaccine coverage, we see that measles is still quite common worldwide.  There are an estimated 20 million cases each year and 164,000 deaths.  (For more information on measles in the United States and worldwide, visit the Global Elimination page.)

If children are vulnerable until they’re vaccinated, why do we wait until their first birthday to begin measles vaccination?

The MMR vaccination timeframe hinges upon the passive protection that children get against measles, mumps, and rubella in the form of antibodies from their mothers. These antibodies can destroy the vaccine virus if they are present when the vaccine is given and therefore can reduce the efficacy of the vaccine.  By 12 months of age, almost all infants have lost this passive protection and no longer have the antibodies that will interfere with the protection offered from the vaccine.  However, this window may differ slightly by child and is often the reason we see children who contract measles before they have a chance to be vaccinated.

How many of the cases in New York were in vaccinated individuals?

Whenever there is an outbreak people often ask how many of cases have occurred in people who had been previously vaccinated.  Although we don’t know all the specifics yet, we do know that out of the New York cases seven are adults, nine are children and four patients have been hospitalized. CBS 2 reports that most of the pediatric cases have been in children too young to be immunized and that two cases have been in patients where their parents refused to have them immunized. In regards to the adults, the vaccination status is often unknown as adults rarely have documentation of measles vaccination that they may have received as a child.  However, this is a good reminder of the importance of adult vaccination.  And since the recommendation of the second dose didn’t come about until the early 1990’s, it’s probably that most adults are unknowingly undervaccinated.

Typically this question gets to the heart of the vaccine efficacy.  If we look at the decade before the measles vaccination program began, we can see just that measles vaccination has been largely effective.  For instance, there was about 3–4 million people in the U.S. infected each year, of which 400–500 died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and another 1,000 developed chronic disability from measles encephalitis. Fortunately, widespread use of measles vaccine has led to over a 99% reduction in measles cases in the United States compared with the pre-vaccine era.  In 2012 there were only 55 cases of measles reported in the United States.

Why should I be concerned about this outbreak?

Even though the risk of disease may be low for a fully vaccinated child or adult, we must consider that there are still people who remain vulnerable. For example, children under a year old who haven’t been vaccinated as explained above, as well as children who haven’t had their second dose who may only remain at greater risk.   And of course there are those, both children and adults, who can’t receive an MMR vaccine due to various medical reasons.  They must rely on protection from those of us who can.

How common are measles outbreaks in the U.S.?

Since measles was declared eliminated in the U.S. in 2000, cases that occur in this country are heavily monitored.  Each year about 60 people in the U.S. are reported to have measles. However, in 2013 we recorded the second highest number of cases in a single year since elimination with 189 cases.  About 28% of these cases came from patients who were infected in other countries and brought it back to the U.S. where they spread it to others. This caused 11 measles outbreaks in various U.S. communities, including the largest U.S. measles outbreak since 1996 (58 cases). (See Measles—United States, January 1-August 24, 2013 for more information.)

According to a recent report in The Examiner, measles is being seen all across the country this year.  For example:

Massachusetts:  The Massachusetts Department of Public Health stated that they’ve seen six measles cases so far in 2014.   Typically they see about six for the entire year, with the exception of 2011 when they had 24 measles cases, and 2006 when there were 19.

Rhode Island:  On March 2, the Rhode Island Department of Health announced that staff and patients at two hospitals and a walk-in clinic may have been exposed to measles in the week prior. An unvaccinated patient was seen at several facilities for an illness that meets the diagnostic criteria for a probable case of measles. Laboratory confirmation is pending.

Pennsylvania:  Back in February, authorities from Pittsburgh were on alert after a vaccinated college student, who had recently traveled to New York City, had contact with a measles patient and fell ill.

Illinois:  In March a county health department was concerned when it was discovered that one of two measles patients had attended a volleyball game between two schools.  The story indicated that there were at least a dozen students from both schools that had religious immunization exemptions, which is not surprising considering that Illinois has over 8,000 students who have religious exemptions to school vaccinations and therefore remain unimmunized.  (See an example of an outbreak based on religious refusal of vaccination here.)

California:  Current outbreaks include two new cases of measles reported in San Diego County last week with one patient who is believed to have contracted the disease during recent travel to the Philippines where there is a measles epidemic.  Orange County has reported five measles cases so far this year, and the local news claims that the most recent case may have exposed others to the illness while at a hospital emergency department.  And in Contra Costa County, a college student who visited the Philippines was diagnosed with measles in mid-February and has spread it to two additional family members.

As the year progresses, we’ll have to wait and see just how 2014 will compare to previous years in regards to measles outbreaks.  In the meantime, the best way for our readers to stay informed would be to follow your local public health department’s alerts and media announcements to ensure you are getting updated on infectious disease outbreaks in your local area.  You can also visit Healthmap to track outbreaks of diseases near you.  
  1. m
    March 11, 2014 at 10:13 am

    Quote sources, please. Much more credible this way.

    Like

  2. Chris
    March 11, 2014 at 10:36 am

    m, just click on the blue text. They are URL links that will send you to the sources and you can read them for yourself.

    Like

  3. Marsha
    March 12, 2014 at 11:48 pm

    Reason & logic better set in to enough people & soon if we are to save posterity from the evil behind the vaccine hoax. Question for all the beLIEvers in vaccines. It is supposed to be known vaccines wear off. So where has all that disease been because we know most people in the world do not ever get those boosters?

    You can’t say outbreaks are happening as we hear about whooping cough, measles & mumps of late because it is known they are in vaccinated populations.

    The trade off for getting vaccines only caused many different disease epidemics & illness of huge magnitudes because all the vaccines did was suppress childhood disease & morph into the sick state we all can see with our own eyes. Ruining immune systems giving whole new meaning to survival of the fittest.

    Like the lies saying chicken pox caused the horrible shingles. It is the vaccines! Older people can attest to the fact chicken pox has been around for ever but shingles is relatively new in especially the huge numbers it is now affecting.

    They say autism & cancer is not really on the rise because media reporting it just makes it seem that way. But older people can attest to the fact we are seeing that increase with our own eyes because years ago it was not so. THE LIARS!

    History if researched properly will show death from disease was already on the decline before vaccines were even invented. The decrease was do to better sanitation, food & water.

    Salk went on record before he died to say his polio vaccine actually causes the disease it was intended to prevent. Many doctors & scientists have been warning us. Research all that!

    All those children in California who are right now losing use of limbs is said to be a polio like condition. It is polio. It was never eradicated. They just changed the name. Look up ‘polio Myth” & study up. Maybe this polio outbreak is in part because Governor Jerry Brown signed into law that they can vaccinate our children behind parents backs in school?

    Did you know Jenner’s son who he exposed to pox soon became very ill & even retarded. Some people hate that word being used due to the insensitivity of others when it comes to their vaccine injured children. But truth is truth & vaccines do cause neurological disorders that ‘slow’ down the brain or change it in bad ways along with a lot else. Look it all up people & stop buying the snake oil. It is experiments & our children are the guinea pigs.

    They discredited Dr. Andrew Wakefield & took his license while the real criminal, Poul Thorsen is on the run from the FBI. He stole the CDC’s research money. He was head scientist behind the Danish studies they had hoped would be the last nail in the coffin of the truth that vaccines do cause autism. But it should not be called that. It is neurological brain injury that comes with a variety of other horrible conditions.

    Media dragged the good name of Wakefield through the mud but nary a word on Thorsen.

    Kathleen Sebelius , Secretary of Health and Human Services, told Readers Digest;

    “There are groups out there that insist that vaccines are responsible for a variety of problems, despite all scientific evidence to the contrary. We have reached out to media outlets to try to get them not to give the views of these people equal weight in their reporting.”

    Now why would she do that unless there was something to hide? Where is the fair debate. Big ‘tell’ huh?

    Look up ‘Dan Burton and 2002 congressional hearing’ to learn real facts. In that hearing watch the little vaccine injured boy in frustration & pain if you can. It is a nightmare many have been going through for far too long. It is past time the barbarians causing this are stopped. Wake up people & wake up all you can. Save our children & do it now. Hit the streets & see many already know but still we have a long way to go & many more to wake.

    Like

  4. Chris
    March 13, 2014 at 12:21 am

    That was a Gish Gallop of nonsense.

    Here is one question you need to answer, Marsha: The MMR vaccine was introduced in the USA in 1971. It was the preferred vaccine for the 1978 Measles Elimination Program. If Wakefield was correct and it caused autism, then that would have been noticed before he came on the scene in the 1990s… a full twenty years after it had been in use.

    Now here is the question: What documentation is there dated before 1990 that shows a sharp increase in autism in the USA coinciding to the use of the MMR in the 1970s and 1980s?

    Like

  5. JGC56
    March 13, 2014 at 5:01 pm

    “ It is supposed to be known vaccines wear off. So where has all that disease been because we know most people in the world do not ever get those boosters?”
    Some vaccines do wear off rapidly enough that boosters are necessary, but many vaccines provide long lasting protection (e.g., 99% of people who receive the MMR vaccine will still be protected against infections 20 years later). The continual entry into the population of new individuals who are vaccinated as children acts to maintain herd immunity even as others’ immunity fails with time.

    “You can’t say outbreaks are happening as we hear about whooping cough, measles & mumps of late because it is known they are in vaccinated populations.”
    Not in ‘vaccinated’ populations: in the population as a whole, and they’re occurring as a consequence of people electing not to be vaccinated and so compromising herd immunity.

    “The trade off for getting vaccines only caused many different disease epidemics & illness of huge magnitudes because all the vaccines did was suppress childhood disease & morph into the sick state we all can see with our own eyes.”
    And your evidence that vaccination, rather than preventing infectious diseases, instead causes epidemics of infectious diseases would be…what, exactly? Be specific.

    “Ruining immune systems giving whole new meaning to survival of the fittest.”
    And your evidence that vaccination ‘ruins immune systems’ would be…what, exactly? Be specific.

    “Like the lies saying chicken pox caused the horrible shingles. It is the vaccines!”
    Shingles is a rash caused by the virus varicella zoster, the same virus which causes chicken pox—not by the vaccine which protects against chicken pox.

    “Older people can attest to the fact chicken pox has been around for ever but shingles is relatively new in especially the huge numbers it is now affecting.”
    It isn’t relatively new: our ability to accurately diagnose it isn’t even relatively new. By 1940 it was observed that lymph from a shingles patient could cause chicken pox in young volunteers, and in 1953 Nobel laureate Thomas Huckle Weller isolated the virus from cells in culture, proving the same virus caused both conditions.

    “They say autism & cancer is not really on the rise because media reporting it just makes it seem that way.”
    It’s correct that diagnoses of autism are increasing due to broadened diagnostic criteria, diagnostic substitution and increased surveillance while the actual incidence of autism has not appeared to have significantly changed. Some cancers may be increasing, but again our ability to detect cancers early has improved to the point where we’re actually over-diagnosing–finding cancers (esp. prostate and breast) early on that will never progress to the point they would require treatment.

    “But older people can attest to the fact we are seeing that increase with our own eyes because years ago it was not so. THE LIARS!”
    Years ago it WAS so, however—it’s just that years ago the people now diagnosed as autistic were instead diagnosed as suffering from other disorders such as ‘mental retadartion’.

    “History if researched properly will show death from disease was already on the decline before vaccines were even invented. The decrease was do to better sanitation, food & water.”
    You’re inappropriately confusing mortality and incidence: yes, death from diseases decreased with the introduction of better medical care. I suppose that once the iron lung was developed one could accurately claim “Deaths due to polio have gone down” but that wouldn’t be a rational argument to oppose vaccination against polio.

    The actual incidence of disease—the number of people who became ill rather than the number of people who would die of that illness—did not decrease until the introduction of vaccines. Better sanitation had little to do with it—and better sanitation, food and water certainly nothing to do with reduced incidence of airborne diseases like chickenpox, mumps, measles, pertussis, etc.

    “Salk went on record before he died to say his polio vaccine actually causes the disease it was intended to prevent.”
    Citation needed.

    “Many doctors & scientists have been warning us. Research all that!”
    Which doctors and scientists are these, exactly? Be specific.

    “All those children in California who are right now losing use of limbs is said to be a polio like condition. It is polio.”
    Tests have actually confirmed infection by different human enteroviruses which cause polio-like symptoms.

    “It was never eradicated. They just changed the name. Look up ‘polio Myth” & study up.”
    Actually it was eradicated in the US. Your problem is that you fail to realize other enteroviruses can also cause paralysis similar to that caused by the poliovirus.

    “Maybe this polio outbreak is in part because Governor Jerry Brown signed into law that they can vaccinate our children behind parents backs in school?”
    By what mechanism would the passage of this piece of legislation cause children to be infected by an enterovirus? Walk us through this extraordinary claim.

    “Did you know Jenner’s son who he exposed to pox soon became very ill & even retarded.”
    No, I didn’t, and to be honest I still don’t: citation, please.

    “But truth is truth & vaccines do cause neurological disorders that ‘slow’ down the brain or change it in bad ways along with a lot else.”
    And your evidence that vaccines cause neurological disorders that ‘slow’ down the brain would be…what, exactly?

    “They discredited Dr. Andrew Wakefield & took his license while the real criminal”
    Dr. Wakefield had his license revoked after being found guilty of multiple separate instances of professional misconduct, including callous disregard for his patients well being—in all he was found guilty of more than 30 separate charges.

    “Poul Thorsen is on the run from the FBI. He stole the CDC’s research money. He was head scientist behind the Danish studies they had hoped would be the last nail in the coffin of the truth that vaccines do cause autism.”
    This is false: Thorsen was neither a lead, principal or senior investigator for any Danish study. He was a minor contributor to two studies for which Madsen was lead investigator.

    The charges of fraud address financial, not scientific, misdoing and do not speak to confidence in the results reported By Madsen et al in any way.

    “But it should not be called that. It is neurological brain injury that comes with a variety of other horrible conditions.”
    And your evidence that autism is a ‘neurological brain injury’ would be. ..what, exactly?

    “Media dragged the good name of Wakefield through the mud but nary a word on Thorsen.”
    Wakefield does not have a good name. He demonstrably committed scientific fraud, concealed significant financial conflicts of interests, subjected patients to entirely unnecessary medical procedures (like lumbar punctures) for no valid medical reason, etc. If he’s your idea of an ethical researcher with a good name who’s been dragged through the mud you must consider Bernie Madoff to be an ethical financier with a good name who has likewise been dragged through the mud.

    “Now why would she do that unless there was something to hide?”
    For the same reason that we also encourage the media not to give equal weight to eproponents of evolutionary models and young earth creationists, or to the standard heliocentric model of the solar system and the flat earth society’s ‘sun orbits the earth’ claptrap: it implies a false equivalence between two positions which does not exist.

    “Where is the fair debate. Big ‘tell’ huh?”
    That debate is carried on in peer reviewed scientific journals—they are, after all, the forum in which real scientists present their findings are argue for or against the conclusions they support. If the anti-vax side has actual science to present, let them submit their work for review.

    “Look up ‘Dan Burton and 2002 congressional hearing’ to learn real facts.”
    Dan Burton’s been ignoring the facts regarding vaccine safety for decades.

    Like

  6. Chris
    March 13, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    Another question for you, Marsha. It pertains to this statement: “History if researched properly will show death from disease was already on the decline before vaccines were even invented. The decrease was do to better sanitation, food & water.”

    The following is American census data on the incidence of measles through most of the twentieth century. Do tell us exactly why the rate of measles incidence in the USA dropped by 90% between 1960 and 1970, with verifiable documentation to support your answer. Please do not mention deaths, any other decade or any other country. Thank you.

    From http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf
    Year…. Rate per 100000 of measles
    1912 . . . 310.0
    1920 . . . 480.5
    1925 . . . 194.3
    1930 . . . 340.8
    1935 . . . 584.6
    1940 . . . 220.7
    1945 . . . 110.2
    1950 . . . 210.1
    1955 . . . 337.9
    1960 . . . 245.4
    1965 . . . 135.1
    1970 . . . . 23.2
    1975 . . . . 11.3
    1980 . . . . . 5.9
    1985 . . . . . 1.2
    1990 . . . . .11.2
    1991 . . . . . .3.8
    1992 . . . . . .0.9
    1993 . . . . . .0.1
    1994 . . . . . .0.4
    1995 . . . . . .0.1
    1996 . . . . . .0.2
    1997 . . . . . . 0.1

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  7. JS
    March 14, 2014 at 11:40 pm

    I’m confused on your statistics. You report 1 in 1000 die and 1 in 1000 develop encephalitis. In a later paragraph you report 3-4 million cases prior to vaccination with 400-500 deaths and 1,000 cases of encephalitis. So if there were 3-4 million cases, shouldn’t it have been 3,000-4,000 deaths and another 3,000-4,000 cases of encephalitis? Somehow your statements don’t add up!

    Like

  8. Marsha
    March 14, 2014 at 11:56 pm

    Power to truth. Please pay attention. We the truth tellers who have done the proper research will never go away & our numbers are growing. No matter the bull being parroted truth is winning this war waged against our children & posterity.

    http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/thanks-pharma-you-created-the-anti-vaccine-movement/#comment-4390

    Like

  9. Narad
    March 15, 2014 at 3:10 am

    JS :
    I’m confused on your statistics. You report 1 in 1000 die and 1 in 1000 develop encephalitis. In a later paragraph you report 3-4 million cases prior to vaccination with 400-500 deaths and 1,000 cases of encephalitis. So if there were 3-4 million cases, shouldn’t it have been 3,000-4,000 deaths and another 3,000-4,000 cases of encephalitis? Somehow your statements don’t add up!

    The trick here is that measles incidence was underreported in the prevaccine era. The 3–4 million figure is based on the assumption that an entire birth cohort, on average, was infected every year, even though measles actually comes in waves when the susceptible group reaches a critical mass for large-scale outbreaks (e.g., about 775,000 reported in 1959).

    So, from 1956 to 1960, there were, again on average, 542,000 cases reported annually, along with 450 deaths. Hence the 0.1% case-fatality ratio. (This number looks to more than double if taken back another 10 years.) The encephalitis figure was right on 4000, though.

    If one moves closer to the present, when measles is going to be noticed, the CFRs are sitting at… 0.1%–0.3%, with small number statistics (Table 2). These are the numbers to be looking at in the modern day.

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  10. Narad
    March 15, 2014 at 3:14 am

    Marsha :
    Power to truth. Please pay attention. We the truth tellers who have done the proper research will never go away & our numbers are growing.

    Are they, Marsha? It just seems to be the same old bunch repeating the same old lines over and over again, even when they’re trivially falsified.

    Like

  11. SPD
    March 15, 2014 at 3:37 am

    What is even funnier is the article states there are 16 confirmed cases. Then down below where it asks how many were vaccinated, it states 7 adults and 9 children!!!! So they were ALL vaccinated!!! rofl BAHAHAHA! Glad those vaccines worked for ya! Ridiculous!

    Like

  12. Lawrence
    March 15, 2014 at 9:01 am

    @SPD – if vaccines didn’t work, then why aren’t we seeing more cases of measles (since it is one of the most contagious diseases on the planet)?

    Any why is it that the index case is always an unvaccinated individual?

    Like

  13. Lawrence
    March 15, 2014 at 9:11 am

    @SPD – and vaccine-preventable diseases are never “Funny.”

    Like

  14. March 15, 2014 at 9:27 am

    Marsha, why did you not answer my questions? Surely your research uncovered the verifiable documentation of MMR causing autism before 1990 in a country much larger than the UK that had been using that vaccine much longer. How about why measles incidence plummeted in less than a decade?

    Like

  15. Christine Vara
    March 15, 2014 at 11:45 am

    JS, I can see where the statistics may have been confusing, but as Narad explains, the 1 in 1,000 statistic that appears first has to due with the current impact of a disease that is largely controlled through mass vaccination and is a statistic that applies to U.S. cases as documented through the CDC. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/faqs-dis-vac-risks.htm

    Like

  16. Christine Vara
    March 15, 2014 at 11:56 am

    SPD, Your reading comprehension skills have failed you. Yes there are 16 confirmed cases so far and out of those 16, seven were adults and nine were children. However I never stated that they were all vaccinated. In fact, I linked to reports which state that at least 2 children were too young to have received the vaccine and 2 other children were intentionally unvaccinated. I’m still working on confirming the vaccination status of the rest of the individuals. Yet, if you are able to comprehend some of the other points I’ve raised in this article you will understand that adults often believe they are vaccinated, but typically have not received a second dose or have documentation of their vaccination status and children under 4 have typically only received one dose. And sadly some people don’t receive full immunity from a single dose and remain vulnerable to outbreaks like these. I hope this helps clarify the information for you. http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/03/10/nyc-health-department-investigating-measles-outbreak/

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  17. Narad
    March 15, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    Christine Vara :
    I’m still working on confirming the vaccination status of the rest of the individuals.

    As I recall the age spread of the adult cases, some may have landed in the pre-1968 inactivated measles vaccine window.

    Like

  18. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    Chris you are preaching to the choir here for the most part. Thank the good God is for that! I have debated you & answered questions in the past. I am not here for you who are deceived & brain dead or working to deceive purposely. I am here in case you hook parents or people with the deception who are actually looking for the truth. For them. I no longer play the back & forth game you play designed for deception to cover the real truth. The world is waking & it shows. Actually you help as for years many educated on this horrid matter have challenged you by drowning out the lies parroted & created to allow the harm to continue. Your JIG is up. People are paying attention.

    Like

  19. Lawrence
    March 15, 2014 at 2:53 pm

    @Marsha – it is a shame that you have nothing left but to resort to lies, misinformation, misinterpretations and misrepresentations to attempt to support your position….luckily for the rest of us, we know that the evidence has shown and does show that vaccines are effective and safe….and vaccine preventable diseases are still dangerous and should be avoided.

    For you to take such a “pro-disease & pro-suffering” stance is completely beyond me.

    Like

  20. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    Thinking people paying attention realize who the real liars & deceived are. You people fool no one now a days except the brain dead too ignorant to know they need do their own research on vaccines.

    Like

  21. Lawrence
    March 15, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    Marsha – this one link alone shows just how wrong you are:

    http://www.tycho.pitt.edu/

    Like

  22. Narad
    March 15, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    Marsha :The world is waking & it shows.

    You can say this until you’re blue in the face, but that doesn’t make it so. Let’s have the goods.

    Like

  23. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 8:20 pm

    Okay. I’ll bite on this one. Here are the goods. Among all the deception Pub Med, you vaccine pushers beLIEve in them, right? Some truth is right here in this Pub Med abstract.

    “Vanishing vaccinations: why are so many Americans opting out of vaccinating their children?”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15568260

    Quote among many lies there;

    “Antivaccination sentiment is growing fast in the United States, in large part due to the controversial and hotly disputed link between immunizations and autism”

    “The rise in parents opting out has caused the AMA grave concern, with many experts decrying the rise of so-called “exemptions of convenience.” In some areas, nearly one out of five children have not received their recommended vaccines.”

    See! Proof from one of the many deceptive references beLIEvers in toxic vaccines buy into that people really are waking up.

    Try again Narad.

    Like

  24. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 8:22 pm

    Lawrence that link showed nothing when it comes to the core of this matter. Nothing!

    Like

  25. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 8:41 pm

    Narad said>>>

    “Are they, Marsha? It just seems to be the same old bunch repeating the same old lines over and over again, even when they’re trivially falsified.”

    That shoe fits your foot. Not ours Narad. We are many & growing daily. You are the parrots & need new material. There is none though because the real science is on our side & it shows.

    “Vaccine fraud exposed: Measles and mumps making a huge comeback because vaccines are designed to fail, say Merck virologists.”

    “Merck falsified its mumps vaccine efficacy results, say former employees”

    http://www.naturalnews.com/042864_measles_outbreak_mumps_vaccines_scientific_fraud.html##ixzz2w55lfdhF

    See! Truth is shining through. Even Merck employees are coming clean. I have some of them on video confessing to being part of these past crimes. Why would they lie? Many doctors & scientists, too, are coming clean. Anyone want to request the mountain of goods on this fact?

    Any takers? As I said;Truth to POWER!

    Not only is the cat out of the bag. Many cats are still crawling out & never going back in. You guys cannot & will never win this battle because it is the greatest crime against humanity & too many are now awake & they will continue to wake others until this barbaric practice becomes a thing of the past just like blood letting has…

    Like

  26. Lawrence
    March 15, 2014 at 9:22 pm

    @marsha – no, the core issue is your side has no facts, no evidence and don’t care that you are actively seeking to bring back diseases that used to regularly kill and maim children by the tens of thousands…

    Like

  27. Mel Thornburg
    March 15, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    Wonder if they are trialing the NEW MMR with a extra kick for good measure with RABIES antigens in it with the kids they are STEALING with lie of PSYCH disease like the dozens BCH have kept locked up for over a yr. and REFUSE to release?

    How these psychopaths get away with MASS MURDER IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION. KNOWING WE ALL ALREADY HAVE THE REAL CAUSE OF THE ANTIGENIC VARIATION FROM HADES THAT IS THE REAL CAUSE OF AIDS….Spirochetal disease in all of its possible thousands of morphological forms…..
    http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5147&p=37251#p37251

    Surely not, that would be mass murder! Oh Wait….That’s what Autisms is…..

    Like

  28. Lawrence
    March 15, 2014 at 10:11 pm

    @mel – psycho much?

    No wonder no one can take you seriously……

    Like

  29. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 10:38 pm

    LOL. Same old same old. Deny, deny, deny. Thank you Mel. We know who the real psychopaths are. They have to be because a psychopath feels no empathy & any sane person would because the facts on vaccines are no longer a big secret. Why aren’t you guys asking me for the goods on the honest doctors & scientist I claim exist? I thought for sure there would be takers. LOL. Not! Because you know I have the dirt on you. Think i’ll post it anyway. From the mountain here’s a tip of that ice burg.

    http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-caught-hiding-data-showing-mercury-in-vaccines-linked-to-autism/

    Did he say Poul Thorsen? Yes he did. This is the scientist who is wanted by the FBI who was head of the department responsible for the Danish studies they hoped would take heat off vaccines. He ran away with the research money from the CDC. But not one word in media about that, But they did drag the good Dr. Andrew Wakefield’s good name through the mud as they unjustly took his licence. He is suing the lying Brian Deer who is a crooked journalist who scapegoated him as well as The British Medical journal.

    That was the 2014 congressional hearing. Very eye opening! More to come. Much more!

    Like

  30. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 10:41 pm

    Then, we have Dan Burton at the 2002 congressional hearing…Way back then even…be sure to watch the little boy who was vaccine injured who is in pain & so very frustrated. No speech. Just torment. Thank you fool vaccine pushers for all these nightmares so many have had to endure. Did you hear Dan point out all the doctors & scientists testifying to that shady FDA doctor? He asked her if she heard their testimonies. How about his drilling & making a fool of that FDA doctor? Priceless!

    Like

  31. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 10:42 pm

    Landmark Congressional Hearing On Autism

    Even health care workers will not take vaccines. Doctors will not even vaccinate their own children

    Like

  32. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 10:43 pm

    Silent Epidemic; The Untold Story of Vaccines Movie dire

    As I said just the tip of the ice burg!

    Like

  33. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 10:55 pm

    Lawrence :
    @mel – psycho much?
    No wonder no one can take you seriously……

    This is usual for the deceivers & a big ‘tell’ as to who the liars & deceived are. They attack the messenger because they can’t attack or disprove their messages. But now we are too many to stand against & their bull won’t work any longer. They have already lost but refuse to lay down. We have buried them all in their own deception but they still try to fool as many as they can. They are losing ground fast as people wake & stop vaccinating just as I pointed out Pub Med stated.

    Losers! You need to get another hobby & stop working to hold children in harm’s way. you are the ones with blood on your hands.

    “Scientists Sue Merck: allege fraud, mislabeling, and false certification of MMR vaccine. Suzanne Humphries, MD ”

    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/06/25/scientists-sue-merck-allege-fraud-mislabeling-and-false-certificaion-of-mmr-vaccine-suzanne-humphries-md/#sthash.MPglQCSB.dpuf

    Then look up ‘faked studies and paid doctors to put their names on them’ Big pHARMa is going down & soon. So is the FDA & all other discredited organizations who are their partners in crime.

    Truth is out so thank you for allowing our team platform by your constant propaganda, rhetoric & denial. You are playing your parts well & it does help to wake people.

    Like

  34. Lawrence
    March 15, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    @Marsha – luckily for humanity, youtube videos aren’t science or facts…..good luck with your tilting at windmills….too bad it is the children that will pay for your ignorance.

    Like

  35. Marsha
    March 15, 2014 at 11:04 pm

    Lawrence :
    @marsha – no, the core issue is your side has no facts, no evidence and don’t care that you are actively seeking to bring back diseases that used to regularly kill and maim children by the tens of thousands…

    Not true. Research history & learn death from disease declined before vaccines even came on the scene. It was better sanitation, water & food that deserved the credit. Not vaccines.

    http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

    “This is the data the drug industry do not want you to see. Here 2 centuries of UK, USA and Australian official death statistics show conclusively and scientifically modern medicine is not responsible for and played little part in substantially improved life expectancy and survival from disease in western economies.

    The main advances in combating disease over 200 years have been better food and clean drinking water. Improved sanitation, less overcrowded and better living conditions also contribute. This is also borne out in published peer reviewed research”

    Again; Truth to POWER. And strength in numbers. We have those numbers now & we don’t need paid to speak out. We do it for free because we love children. Good night & good riddance to your bull.

    Like

  36. novalox
    March 15, 2014 at 11:37 pm

    @marsha

    You do know that childhealthsafety isn’t considered a valid source of information.

    Also, why won’t you answer Chris’ questions? Let’s give you 3 chances to answer her question with actual scientific evidence, otherwise, you admit that your position is completely without merit.

    Like

  37. a polaschek
    March 15, 2014 at 11:39 pm

    Marsha lets face it ” You can not reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into” http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/thanks-pharma-you-created-the-anti-vaccine-movement/

    Like

  38. a polaschek
    March 15, 2014 at 11:46 pm

    Here are 80plus studies connecting vacs and autism etc…http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2007/06/no-evidence-of-any-link.html

    Like

  39. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:01 am

    Marsha: “Not true. Research history & learn death from disease declined before vaccines even came on the scene. It was better sanitation, water & food that deserved the credit. Not vaccines.”

    That does not answer the question of why the incidence of measles in the USA plummeted 90% in one decade. I specifically told you do not mention deaths. But is seems you need a small vocabulary lesson:

    morbidity = incidence

    mortality = deaths

    Those are all mortality graphs. Now try again to explain why the morbidity of measles in the USA dropped 90% between 1960 and 1970.

    Also, here is a small geography lesson: neither England nor Wales are in the USA.

    You have also failed to provide the verifiable documentation dated before 1990 about the rates of autism increasing in the USA due to the introduction of MMR in 1971.

    Now you did post several things about thimerosal. Here is an interesting thing you must not know about, and reflects your general knowledge about the issues:

    The MMR vaccine has never contained thimerosal. So that is something completely different.

    Like

  40. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:04 am

    a polaschek, not really. Those studies don’t really say what Ms. Taylor thinks they say:
    http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2013/08/-those-lists-of-papers-that-claim-vaccines-cause-autism-part-1.html

    You are also quite welcome to answer the questions I have asked Marsha in Comments #4 and #6. I hope you know the difference between mortality and morbidity.

    Like

  41. Marsha
    March 16, 2014 at 12:24 am

    Lawrence :
    @Marsha – luckily for humanity, youtube videos aren’t science or facts…..good luck with your tilting at windmills….too bad it is the children that will pay for your ignorance.

    Lawrence you need learn to stop using that cliche that u tube videos are not evidence by looking past they are videos to see the true facts. Saying that is really stupid you know? Thinking people will find the real evidence by way of many videos. That accusation does not work at all. never did. you guys just keep repeating that lie in hope you will be believed. NOT! LOL at you.

    Like

  42. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:28 am

    Marsha, why did the incidence rates of measles in the USA drop 90% between 1960 and 1970?

    Please do not mention deaths (mortality), nor mention any other decade, nor any other country… also do not mention thimerosal because it was never used in the MMR.

    Also, where is the evidence dated before 1990 that the MMR vaccine caused autism in the USA after its introduction in 1971?

    By the way, the word is spelled “youtube.”

    Like

  43. Marsha
    March 16, 2014 at 12:35 am

    novalox :
    @marsha
    You do know that childhealthsafety isn’t considered a valid source of information.
    Also, why won’t you answer Chris’ questions? Let’s give you 3 chances to answer her question with actual scientific evidence, otherwise, you admit that your position is completely without merit.

    None of our resources are ever good enough for you guys. normal protocal for your team. That does not work any longer either. And I have played Chris’s game too often & always bury her in truth anyway. I am tired of her game & have no time for her. She is a danger to children everywhere so I will let her play by herself as I address the issue in factual manner.

    We just lost one of our great warriors to death a few days ago. But her hard work will live on. She has saved many. Some from fates worse than death. She was harmed by medical deception as I was & many more of us including our children & my grandchildren. The deception took her life but she lived way beyond what doctors told her using alternative ways that you shills & parrots love to try to discredit. Her name is Heidi Stevenson & I unknowingly that she has passed posted this article of hers the day she died. We will miss her sorely.

    http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2013-05-12/vaccines-do-irreparable-harm-study-from-poland/

    Like

  44. Marsha
    March 16, 2014 at 12:36 am

    “youtube.” or u tube who cares.Just shows you can’t tell what’s important & what’s not. So petty are you who beLIEve in vaccines. Or do you really?

    Like

  45. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:42 am

    “She is a danger to children everywhere so I will let her play by herself as I address the issue in factual manner. ”

    Then provide us some actual facts. You can start by answering my questions.

    Marsha, why did the incidence of measles in the USA plummet 90% between 1960 and 1970? Just give us the truth. I have given you the actual US Census data that you can look up yourself. You can use a standard dictionary to to learn the difference between “morbidity” and “mortality.” Plus you can use any global map to learn that England and Wales are no where near the USA.

    Is the fact the MMR vaccine was introduced in the USA not a “fact”? Do tell us why if that is not so why it was the preferred vaccine for the 1978 Measles Elimination Program. Then provide the documentation dated before 1990 that autism increased in the USA in the 1970s and 1980s due to the MMR vaccine. That would help exonerate Wakefield. Why don’t you want to help him with this data?

    Also isn’t it a fact that the MMR vaccine has never ever contained thimerosal?

    Like

  46. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:46 am

    Marsha: ““youtube.” or u tube who cares.Just shows you can’t tell what’s important & what’s not. So petty are you who beLIEve in vaccines. Or do you really?”

    I care, because you made this all about “facts.” If you cannot spell a service correctly, then you do not care about that little fact. You also do not seem to understand that mortality and morbidity are not the same.

    Here is another fact you don’t seem to understand: it is not belief that is important, it is the science and facts.

    Try providing some by answering my questions. So why did the measles morbidity in the USA drop 90% between 1960 and 1970? Provide real scientific documentation.

    Like

  47. Marsha
    March 16, 2014 at 12:48 am

    a polaschek :
    Marsha lets face it ” You can not reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into” http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/thanks-pharma-you-created-the-anti-vaccine-movement/

    So true my friend. But I am not expecting them to listen to reason. They won’t reason themselves into learning because they either won’t or can’t do the proper research. I suspect some are paid to hold these dangerous positions, also. I just know those looking for truth who may be watching see this debate & they are smart enough to see who is telling the truth & who is not.

    Chris what the MMR contains is still toxic & yes they do still use thimerosal & other toxins as preservatives. It is not save at any level. Go to the CDC website & see. Give up you guys. You lost this debate long ago. You just keep on keeping hoping to fool enough people. It won’t happen. children lives depend on it & we are way too many for you to handle now.

    You have to have a Face Book account to see this great analogy of what is happening. I just love this>>>

    Like

  48. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:56 am

    “Chris what the MMR contains is still toxic & yes they do still use thimerosal & other toxins as preservatives.”

    So? This article is about measles. The MMR has never contained thimerosal, so any comment to that issue is off topic. This comment has obligated to answer another request for actual scientific data:

    Please provide us the PubMed indexed study by reputable qualified researchers that show the MMR vaccine causes more harm than measles, mumps and rubella. Just to let you know, none of the studies on Ms. Taylor’s website qualify.

    I don’t do Facebook. Even so, it is not a source of scientific documentation so it does not qualify. So you still need to provide the verifiable documentation dated before 1990 that autism increased in the USA in the 1970s and 1980s due to the MMR being introduced in 1971. Also, you need to answer why measles incidence in the USA dropped 90% between 1960 and 1970.

    Like

  49. Narad
    March 16, 2014 at 12:56 am

    Marsha :
    Okay. I’ll bite on this one. Here are the goods. Among all the deception Pub Med, you vaccine pushers beLIEve in them, right?

    Of course not. PubMed isn’t even Medline.

    Some truth is right here in this Pub Med abstract.
    “Vanishing vaccinations: why are so many Americans opting out of vaccinating their children?”

    Did you fail to notice that that’s a 10-year-old paper from a law journal?

    Quote among many lies there;
    “Antivaccination sentiment is growing fast in the United States, in large part due to the controversial and hotly disputed link between immunizations and autism”
    “The rise in parents opting out has caused the AMA grave concern

    You’re quoting from the abstract. As it happens, I have this to hand (not that it’s particularly difficult to find). The “grave” part is absent from the actual text, and the few mentions of the AMA boil down to two references: Maldonado, PMID 12495396, and a New York Times article on bogus antivaccine churches. The “growing fast” bit is quantified nowhere.

    with many experts decrying the rise of so-called “exemptions of convenience.” In some areas, nearly one out of five children have not received their recommended vaccines.”

    Again sourced to the Times. And you know what? It’s the same old places, such as Vashon Island.

    See! Proof from one of the many deceptive references beLIEvers in toxic vaccines buy into that people really are waking up.
    Try again Narad.

    I think your demonstration that the antivaccine movement hasn’t accomplished anything* in a decade makes that unneccessary.

    * Aside from falling further into disrepute, of course. These things can happen when one just keeps repeating the same thing over and over again.

    Like

  50. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 1:01 am

    Folks, I am going to bed. I hope Marsha figures out some basics like vocabulary and what actually are scientific citations by tomorrow evening.

    Like

  51. Narad
    March 16, 2014 at 1:02 am

    Marsha :
    See! Truth is shining through. Even Merck employees are coming clean. I have some of them on video confessing to being part of these past crimes. Why would they lie?

    I further take it that you don’t realize that Krahling and Wlochowski stand to realize a substantial payday, which is why they proceeded with the action under the False Claims Act qui tam when the DOJ expressed disinterest after a two-year investigation. Did the “Health Ranger” leave that part out?

    Like

  52. Narad
    March 16, 2014 at 1:14 am

    Marsha :
    We just lost one of our great warriors to death a few days ago. But her hard work will live on…. Her name is Heidi Stevenson & I unknowingly that she has passed posted this article of hers the day she died.

    That’s a post from last May, Marsha. It appears that you can’t even read your own material.

    Like

  53. Narad
    March 16, 2014 at 1:16 am

    ^ No, I appear to have gotten tangled in the word-ramen. I take it that the intent was that Marsha posted it.

    Like

  54. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 1:47 am

    Narad, Ms. Stevenson seems to have passed away quite recently this past week:
    https://www.facebook.com/HonorHeidiStevenson

    I will assume that Marsha is quite upset, so it is reasonable to assume that she posted that her demise coincided with a post made several months ago was an honest mistake.

    But this does not exonerate her lack of answers to my questions. I hope Marsha finds them by tomorrow evening. Good night (for reals this time!).

    Like

  55. novalox
    March 16, 2014 at 1:58 am

    @marsha

    Since you failed to answer Chris’ question within 3 postsm we can assume that you admit that your position has no merit, and that you believe that vaccines are beneficial for humanity.

    Like

  56. Sallie
    March 16, 2014 at 3:24 am

    Thanks to Marsha for trying to educate people about the dangers of vaccines. Keep up the good work. You are setting yourself up for hateful remarks, but keep doing it. Those with vaccine injured children cherish you. I hope one day to meet you and hug you for being so conscientious in the face of it all. A true heroine. Blessings to you Marsha.

    Like

  57. Narad
    March 16, 2014 at 4:36 am

    Sallie :
    Thanks to Marsha for trying to educate people about the dangers of vaccines. Keep up the good work. You are setting yourself up for hateful remarks, but keep doing it.

    “Hateful” as in knowing more about what she’s tossing out than she does?

    Like

  58. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 7:49 am

    @Salllie – who is being hateful? Those of us that are merely attempting to prevent the return of vaccine-preventable diseases or those that don’t care about cases like this:

    And another SSPE case: Angelina is dying
    I had seen girl previously on a board, but the parents had not gone public until now, after Natalie’s death.

    Angelina caught measles in 2006 from an adult, when she was 7 months old. She recovered well – this is her before SSPE broke out:

    This is her now:

    Gina, Angelina’s mum says (my translation):

    “In February of this year, we noticed pronounced problems with our daughter. She kept falling off her bike, and had speech blockades. When this was getting worse, we went to the clinic. The diagnosis SSPE was a shock for us. Our child became dependent on care within 8 weeks. She cannot walk nor speak and needs to be tube fed. She would have entered school this year. This blow of fate is very hard for us all.”

    According to Sean Monks, spokesperson of the German Association of Pediatricians, this is the third case of SSPE from measles infection in infants in 2006 – in 2006 a total of 313 infants with measles were reported to the RKI (German CDC equivalent) in Berlin. One of these children died in 2007, another has been suffering from SSPE since 2009, and now Angelina is the third victim from that year.

    Importantly, this shows that the risk of SSPE is much higher than previously thought. Overall risk for SSPE had recently been adjusted to about 1 in 11’000 notified cases of all ages, and “at least” 1 in 2’000 for infants (German pdf). From 2005 to 2010, 27 patients died of SSPE in Germany, although measles incidence had been sinking to reported numbers under 2000/year for some time. The current cluster of SSPE cases indicates that the risk of SSPE for infants who contract measles lies closer to 1 in 200.

    Research has not yet identified the causative mutation for SSPE (see for example here) nor found strains with a particularly high risk of causing SSPE which could explain this high incidence. What is clear is that all cases in which measles virus has been amplified from the brain of SSPE victims, it was the wild type rather than the vaccine virus, and that with increasing vaccination coverage, SSPE incidence sank (see for example here and here, for review here).

    The only way to prevent more SSPE cases is to vaccinate your child against measles (2xMMR) and to check your own immunity if you are unsure of your history of measles/measles vaccination. Your immunity protects those too young or too sick to be vaccinated. Your decision not to vaccine could cost lives, not necessarily yours.

    Like

  59. Meredith
    March 16, 2014 at 8:44 am

    Please show me where the heck you got information that the MMR never contained thimerisol?

    Like

  60. Lawrence
  61. Lawrence
  62. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 9:39 am

    @Meredith – not only did the MMR never contain thimerisol, it is biologically impossible to have utilized it because of the nature of the vaccine itself…..not to mention that no vaccine on the US Pediatric schedule (or the UK schedule for that matter) still contain the ingredient – with the exception of the Flu vaccine (and of those, only a couple still use it & FluMist, the vaccine of choice for children, does not contain it anyway).

    And several states, including California, prohibit any thimerisol-containing vaccines anyway…

    Like

  63. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 9:42 am
  64. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 9:45 am
  65. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 9:46 am

    @Meredith – if you don’t understand something as basic as this, how can you possibly understand the rest of the Science around the safety of vaccines?

    Like

  66. Nat
    March 16, 2014 at 11:02 am
  67. Nat
    March 16, 2014 at 11:14 am

    @Lawrence
    All multidose injections (contain several doses in the same container), must contain a preservative, this is often thimerosal/mercury.
    To have preservative properties it must be present in a strength of at least 0.01% in the final product. (Equivalent to 50 microgram thimerosal per 0.5ml dose, or 25 microgram mercury).

    The reason why multidose preparations contain preservatives is to prevent contamination from the surroundings in connection with withdrawal of several doses.

    Single dose injections do not normally require preservatives. They are discarded after the one dose is withdrawn.
    HOWEVER
    During the manufacturing processes mercury may be used to prevent microbial contamination, even though it will not be present IN PRESERVATIVE STRENGTH in the end product. (This is the case with many single dose injections).

    The intention is to remove the mercury, but because it is difficult and expensive to remove absolutely all, up to 0.3 microgram per 0.5 ml dose is permitted to remain.

    This is termed “trace” mercury and is not sufficient to have preservative properties because it is not present in sufficient strength.

    It is often misleading due to the fact that injections may be termed “preservative free” because they do not contain mercury in a high enough concentration to have preservative properties – but they may nevertheless contain traces of mercury!

    Like

  68. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 11:19 am

    @Nat – once again, you fail basic science & biology. Since the MMR uses live virus, it cannot use a mercury-based preservative…..

    As to “trace amounts” you again fail to realize that the amounts we are discussing are minuscule compared to everyday exposures that we get from the environment.

    Like

  69. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    Nat, no matter how many influenza vaccines a person gets, they will not be protected against measles. The MMR vaccine has never contained thimerosal, even when it was introduced in 1971.

    Now, please as a new sock puppet answer the questions I asked in comments #4 and #6.

    Like

  70. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    By the way, Nat, the MMR vaccine is stored as a dry powder. It is then mixed with sterile water and must be used within a certain time limit.

    Like

  71. Meredith
    March 16, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    That’s not an answer.

    Like

  72. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    @Meredith – an answer for what? That you incorrectly assumed that the MMR Vaccine contained Thimerisol, when all available sources point out that is does not & has never?

    Like

  73. Meredith
    March 16, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    Most vaccines still contain thimerisol. They just changed when they add it to avoid reporting it. You obviously only do your research on the CDC website.

    Like

  74. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    @Meredith – you obviously didn’t read the multiple sources that were provided (not just the CDC, but UK & Australian sources a well) – and don’t understand that a biologically active vaccine like the MMR “CANNOT” use a mercury-based preservative……

    You continue to believe lies – which really isn’t helping your cause.

    Like

  75. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    Meredith, it was never in the MMR. The vaccine one needs to use to prevent measles is the MMR. The MMR vaccine does not, nor has it every contained thimerosal. And all pediatric vaccines have thimerosal free versions, including half of the influenza vaccines (note the last column in the MMR row says: “Never contained Thimerosal“)

    Therefore discussion of thimerosal is off topic.

    Now, please tell us where the verifiable documentation dated before 1990 is that shows autism increased in the USA during the 1970s and 1980s corresponding to the 1971 introduction of the MMR vaccine.

    Like

  76. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    @Chris – what I find most disconcerting at this point, is that we are seeing a higher level of SSPE than we would expect given the current frequency of measles cases – that the evidence points to a greater incidence of SSPE occurring in unvaccinated infants exposed to the measles….

    Like

  77. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    @Chris – if she comes back with anything related to peanut oil & vaccines, I won’t be surprised.

    Like

  78. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 12:38 pm

    Another fantastic debunking of common anti-vaccine claims (which shows them to be made up of lies, misinterpretations and misrepresentations):

    http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/page/2/

    Like

  79. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:38 pm

    So how many socks did she use this time? What gets me is that I was very tired last night, and it was around 11pm. She lives two time zones east of me, so she is up at 1am typing nonsense. That’s manic.

    Like

  80. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    @Chris – not sure. I know exactly who Marsha is….the others, well, could be a variation – but I believe Meredith is not a sock (at least, not Marsha) – because even Marsha knows (or has stated in the past) that the MMR does not contain Thimerisol (and never has). Usually, those individuals ride Andy Wakefield’s coat tails & claim the MMR causes autism by doing “something, something” to the digestive track.

    It is always:

    Step 1: Vaccination
    Step 2: ???????
    Step 3: Autism

    Over and over again, step 2 anti-vax hypotheses have been debunked and disproven…..yet they cling to the fiction.

    Like

  81. Nat
    March 16, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    A 96 percent drop in death rate associated with measles occurred in only 40 years, in the USA. (1920-1960) If we begin in 1900, the decline in death rate over a sixty year span from 1900-1960 was about 98%.

    Death per Cases Versus Death per Births
    Using the average of 8377 deaths per year, 1900-1909, and 2 million susceptible children (rough estimate), then one child died for every 238 cases of measles or one death per each 272 births. These are rough estimates. From 1953-1962, using the CDC figure of 450 measles death per year at a time when there were an average of 4.1 million births per year gives measles death to birth ratio of 1 in 9,111 children. From 1959-1962, 402 children per year died of measles with about 4.2 million added to the susceptible group per year giving one child dying of measles for each 10,448 born.

    Formulas: change one number and other numbers must change as well:
    Some vaccine proponents would like us to believe that almost everybody had measles before the measles vaccine was introduced and thus the number of “reported” cases of 450,000 represents about 3.6 to 4 million actual cases.
    At the same time, the report of 1 death per 1000 cases is something some people seem to believe is fixed. However, the deaths, cases and the death/case ratio are numbers locked together in the formula:
    Death/Case-Ratio = number of deaths divided by number of cases.
    likewise deaths times the inverse of case/death-ratio = cases. Examples: 450 deaths per year with various death/case ratios:
    450 deaths times 1000 (1 death per 1000 cases) = 450,000 cases (not reports
    450 deaths times 500 (1 death per 500 cases) = 225,000 cases
    450 deaths times 9000 (1 deaths per 9,000 cases) = 4,050,000 cases
    450 deaths times 10,000 (1 deaths per 10,000 cases) = 4,500,000 cases.
    It should be noted that that from 1954 to 1964 more than 4 million babies were born each year with a peak of 4.3 million born in 1957.

    Is the CDC an appropriate agency to keep health statistics?.
    The CDC is an official source of statistics. Unfortunately, one branch of the CDC receives 2.1 billion dollars per year to promote vaccines. People hired by the CDC are believers in the power of vaccines to prevent disease and of a belief system that promotes “vaccinations are immunizations” paradigm.
    .
    It is hard to have confidence in figures that the CDC obviously does not themselves believe. That is the 450,000 measles cases are also labeled as reports of measles, meaning that the true number of cases are believed by some vaccine proponents to have been much higher, perhaps nearly 100 percent of the birth cohort or over 4 million cases per year in the 1950’s. We will show below that a decline in the percentage of children had already started prior to the introduction of measles vaccines. In the controversial arena of epidemiology where estimates must be made, the most reliable figures tend to be death figures, at least before a vaccine is put on the market to cause deaths associated with the disease in vaccinated individuals as well as deaths associated with the vaccine to be attributed to other causes. You can see from the CDC graph below that 450 measles associated deaths per year prior to the introduction of measles vaccines is a “reasonable” number. It can be argued that the true pre-vaccine number was considerable lower 450 per year or even that all deaths attributed to measles are actually due to other causes but we will not go into that phase of this subject here.

    http://drtenpenny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Decline-of-infectious-disease.pdf

    Like

  82. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Nat: “A 96 percent drop in death rate associated with measles occurred in only 40 years, in the USA. (1920-1960) If we begin in 1900, the decline in death rate over a sixty year span from 1900-1960 was about 98%.”

    Again, the question was not about deaths, it was about incidence. Do I need to repeat the question for you? Oh, I guess I shall. But here is a tiny hint, get a dictionary and look up the words “mortality” and “morbidity”, Figure it out.

    The following is American census data on the incidence of measles through most of the twentieth century. Do tell us exactly why the rate of measles incidence in the USA dropped by 90% between 1960 and 1970, with verifiable documentation to support your answer. Please do not mention deaths, any other decade or any other country. Thank you.

    From http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf
    Year…. Rate per 100000 of measles
    1912 . . . 310.0
    1920 . . . 480.5
    1925 . . . 194.3
    1930 . . . 340.8
    1935 . . . 584.6
    1940 . . . 220.7
    1945 . . . 110.2
    1950 . . . 210.1
    1955 . . . 337.9
    1960 . . . 245.4
    1965 . . . 135.1
    1970 . . . . 23.2
    1975 . . . . 11.3
    1980 . . . . . 5.9
    1985 . . . . . 1.2
    1990 . . . . .11.2
    1991 . . . . . .3.8
    1992 . . . . . .0.9
    1993 . . . . . .0.1
    1994 . . . . . .0.4
    1995 . . . . . .0.1
    1996 . . . . . .0.2
    1997 . . . . . . 0.1

    Like

  83. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    @Nate – would love to see you explain the difference between mortality rates & incidence rates…since you really don’t seem to know the difference.

    What part of “modern medicine is better at keeping people alive, when they get the measles, but can do nothing to prevent its spread” don’t you understand?

    The only way to prevent the spread of measles is vaccines.

    Like

  84. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 1:09 pm

    @Nate – and please explain specifically how improved sanitation prevents the spread of a highly-contagious airborne disease….

    Like

  85. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    I believe there is a literacy issue in not being able to tell what some words mean.

    Like

  86. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    @Chris – I agree….I mean, how hard is it to understand that “mortality” doesn’t mean the same thing as “incidence.”

    It would be like trying to compare rates of people who die from ruptured appendixes today vs. 100 years ago……people still get them at the same rate, but we can keep them from dying a lot better now….

    Like

  87. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 1:27 pm

    @Chris – also, we all know that there has been an overall decline (a huge decline in the developed world) in mortality rates for a whole host of afflictions – not just vaccine preventable diseases…..and were water-borne diseases like Cholera severely reduced by improved sanitation? Of course – we also have modern medical practice to thank for our ability to keep people alive for a lot longer, particularly those that get these diseases and can be treated…..treatments that weren’t available in the past.

    But, for the majority of vaccine-preventable diseases, there are no other ways to prevent infection (i.e. incidence) – they are airborne and extremely contagious.

    Again, concepts that seem to be completely over the heads of the typical anti-vax person.

    Like

  88. Marsha
    March 16, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    I see you who are ignorant or worse as in ‘paid’ to lie have been busy. The only socks I have are ones I’d like to do to your faces for working to harm children. Your evil shows. Karma has made you ‘a mark’ an anagram for the wrath that will come upon you eventually. You will pay for all the children you have helped harmed. You have seen the facts so it is known you reject truth purposely. You better hope ‘HELL’ is only imaginary. Because if not, there’s a special place reserved for those who harm children.

    Like

  89. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 3:01 pm

    @Marsha – I’m sure the irony of your statement goes completely over your head……

    Like

  90. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    Let’s see…..

    1) Millions upon millions of cases of disease have been prevented by vaccines
    2) Smallpox, once the #1 killer of man throughout the ages – eradicated
    3) Polio – once a scourge for children, almost eradicated
    4) Almost every other vaccine-preventable disease has seen incidence rate reductions of anywhere from 95 – 99.9% (in the US)
    5) Infant & child mortality rates have plummeted across the globe
    6) Life-expectancy is at all time highs

    Yes, I do sleep very well at night….only trouble by the fact the ignorant loons such as yourself would seek to undo all of the good that has been done, just because you have so basic understandings of Science or Evidence.

    Like

  91. Lawrence
    March 16, 2014 at 3:16 pm

    “no understanding” – hate typos.

    Like

  92. Narad
    March 16, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    Nat :
    All multidose injections (contain several doses in the same container), must contain a preservative, this is often thimerosal/mercury.

    Nope. Multidose versions of live vaccines are distributed as lyophilized powders with liquid diluents. For MMR, that gives you 8 hours to get through the vial.

    Like

  93. Narad
    March 16, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    I now see that my comment 92 had already been covered by Chris.

    Like

  94. Narad
    March 16, 2014 at 4:12 pm

    Marsha :
    Karma has made you ‘a mark’ an anagram for the wrath that will come upon you eventually.

    Marsha, you really oughtn’t to stray into yet more subjects that you don’t understand. Leaving aside that karma is anathema to the Abrahamic monotheism that you routinely invoke to reduce G-d to a foot soldier under your generalship, it mainly applies to future lives and is conditioned by intention. There is, technically, no distinction between “good” and “bad” karma – the entire point is to be rid of it entirely. However, to the extent that one’s actions arise from attachment, the results are irrelevant.

    Like

  95. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 4:44 pm

    Marsha, why do you think insults are a valid substitute for data and evidence?

    I expressly asked you about incidence, but you only brought up graphs on deaths. Here is a little hint: they are not the same thing. So please try again to answer my questions with real verifiable evidence and not insults:

    1: What documentation dated before 1990 that shows the MMR vaccine caused autism to increase in the USA during the 1970s and 1980s after it was introduced in 1971?

    2: Why did measles incidence in the USA drop 90% between 1960 and 1970? Please do not mention deaths, nor any other decade nor any other country.

    3: Please provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that the MMR vaccine is more dangerous than measles. Remember up until the early 1960s measles killed between four hundred and six hundred each year, plus permanently disabled thousands more. So your study needs to show that the MMR kills at least four hundred each year in just the USA.

    Like

  96. novalox
    March 16, 2014 at 4:45 pm

    @marsha

    Nice to know that you are resorting to threats and ad hominems, a sure sign that you admit that your argument has no merit.

    Again, where is your evidence, since you continually fail to produce anything of merit, and have to resort to using biased blogs and youtube videos.

    Also, whatever god you are worshipping doesn’t seem to be any god I would want to worship, since he/she/it would wantonly kill others at a whim.

    Like

  97. Kristina Ray
    March 16, 2014 at 9:53 pm

    Merck quadrupled the amount of mumps virus used in the MMR in 1990, later quietly reduced it again when they saw the huge increase in autism it was causing. Could that explain why autism incidence went up so much after 1990? It wasn’t the only cause of autism, but it was one.

    Like

  98. Chris
    March 16, 2014 at 10:03 pm

    Kristina Ray,

    Citation needed. There is no reason to believe you.

    Also, mumps is not measles. Though this may be of interest: Increasing Exposure to Antibody-Stimulating Proteins and Polysaccharides in Vaccines Is Not Associated with Risk of Autism.

    Like

  99. Narad
    March 17, 2014 at 2:18 am

    Kristina Ray :
    Merck quadrupled the amount of mumps virus used in the MMR in 1990, later quietly reduced it again when they saw the huge increase in autism it was causing. Could that explain why autism incidence went up so much after 1990?

    Hey, that sounds familiar.

    Like

  100. Lawrence
    March 17, 2014 at 6:31 am

    @Narad – of course, it could have nothing to do with the vastly expanded definition that was used to diagnose cases of autism in the mid-1990’s, could it?

    Like

  101. JGC56
    March 17, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    The polio vacine wasn’t needed! After all, before the development of a vaccine the invention of the iron lung had already caused deaths due to polio to fall…

    (toggle sarcasm off)

    Like

  102. Lawrence
    March 17, 2014 at 1:36 pm

    @JGC – that’s a perfect example….thank you.

    Like

  103. Ted
    March 17, 2014 at 5:54 pm

    Thank you Marsha! I like the videos!

    Like

  104. Chris
    March 17, 2014 at 7:29 pm

    Ted, here are some questions for you:

    1: What documentation dated before 1990 that shows the MMR vaccine caused autism to increase in the USA during the 1970s and 1980s after it was introduced in 1971?

    2: Why did measles incidence in the USA drop 90% between 1960 and 1970? Please do not mention deaths, nor any other decade nor any other country.

    3: Please provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that the MMR vaccine is more dangerous than measles. Remember up until the early 1960s measles killed between four hundred and six hundred each year, plus permanently disabled thousands more. So your study needs to show that the MMR kills at least four hundred each year in just the USA.

    Like

  105. Ken
    March 17, 2014 at 9:00 pm

    Well, the anti-vaccine crowd proved the math that exactly 50% of the public is below average intelligence.

    Like

  106. Gray Falcon
    March 17, 2014 at 10:45 pm

    Ken, I think you mean below the median.

    Like

  107. SirTruthalot
    April 2, 2014 at 12:50 am

    http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120622-710001.html

    They say it’s 95 percent successful but these whistle blowers beg to differ. If you haven’t read about the recent mumps outbreak where 27 of 28 were vaccinated, you are missing something! Wake up and realize how toxic these vaccines are!

    Like

  108. Narad
    April 2, 2014 at 1:05 am

    SirTruthalot :
    They say it’s 95 percent successful but these whistle blowers beg to differ.

    Yah. How’s that case going? You do know that the DOJ declined to intervene after a two-year investigation, which is why Krahling and Wlochowski filed qui tam, right? And that they have a tremendous financial motivation?

    Like

  109. Narad
    April 2, 2014 at 1:19 am

    In any event, nobody thinks mumps vaccine is 95% effective in the real world. Two doses come in at 88%. The problem with “they say it’s 95 percent successful” is that you don’t understand the difference between efficacy (which is what the FCA action is about) and effectiveness; the former refers to performance under ideal circumstances.

    Like

  110. Chris
    April 2, 2014 at 9:54 am

    Some people, like me, have gotten mumps twice. Even getting the disease does not guarantee immunity. It is disingenuous to believe the vaccine should give better immunity than the actual disease.

    It is why there should be community immunity through getting all who can two doses of the MMR vaccine.

    Like

  111. Chris
    April 2, 2014 at 10:55 am

    Decided to look at that Wall Street Journal link, the first thing I saw: June 22, 2012

    That was almost two years ago! Wow, just wow. And how can they be “whistle blowers” when there are several PubMed indexed studies comparing the various mumps vaccines strains? Like PMID 16291282, PMID 6344550, PMID 17638194, etc.

    Oh, wait… like Narad said: they just want cash.

    Like

  112. Narad
    April 2, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    Chris :

    That was almost two years ago! Wow, just wow.

    That’s not too surprising for federal litigation. I looked at the docket around a month ago; it’s still plodding along. I didn’t much care to pay for it again.

    And how can they be “whistle blowers” when there are several PubMed indexed studies comparing the various mumps vaccines strains?

    It’s easy enough to find the redacted complaint: search for “2:10-cv­-04374 complaint” (you’ll see why I didn’t just link). ­They’re claiming that successive passaging has rendered the Jeryl Lynn strain less likely to seroconvert, with plaque neutralization as a proxy. It seems as though this would be straightforward enough to check by sequencing against the reference strain, but no matter: they then immediately change their tune to saying that Merck was comparing against… you guessed it, the Jeryl Lynn strain instead of a wild-type one.

    Then Merck added animal antibodies, and, it is claimed, it was the combination of nonhuman antibodies and human antibodies that yielded 95% efficacy. But the animal antibodies were so effective by themselves that to get the number of prevaccine neutralization figures under the normal background of 10%, they then had to falsify the data.

    And, as noted, this has bupkis to do with the effectiveness as already documented in the real world (the problem was purportedly discovered in 1999, so the effect obviously would have been detectable on the ground much earlier).

    Like

  113. Deni
    April 7, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    I was fully vaccinated for measles and I got the measles!

    Like

  114. Lawrence
    April 7, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    @Deni – then you should blame the unvaccinated person that infected you, since if they had been vaccinated, the chances that you would have been exposed (being the very small percentage of people that don’t achieve full immunity with the vaccine) would have been significantly reduced (if not eliminated entirely).

    Like

  115. JGC56
    April 8, 2014 at 5:12 pm

    Deni, my son contracted chicken pox((confirmed)three times. The second time our response was “Well, it’s been known to happen” while the third time we were more like “WTF?”

    Some individuals are simply incapable of developing protective antibody titers, either as the result of infectious disease or as the result of vaccination.
    This of course argues strongly in support of routine vaccination, as such individuals rely on herd immunity for protection from infection.

    Like

  116. Sterisky
    April 8, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    “It is disingenuous to believe the vaccine should give better immunity than the actual disease.”

    How can you talk out of both sides of your mouth? On one hand you say get your vaccinations they protect you, and on the other, you say it is disingenuous to believe they do protect you? Do you ever hear anybody say these vaccines are only XXX effective? The average Joe believes that vaccines do protect you. Most don’t know that they only offer partial protection. So your statement above really is ridiculous.

    Like

  117. Chris
    April 8, 2014 at 6:15 pm

    Sterisky, the more people have been vaccinated the better the immunity is for the entire community. If some do not understand that, it is not do to the folks who run this website being misleading. You might want to try reading the comment in context, and not distort the meaning. It was an argument for community immunity.

    Since you are just reacting to the article title and your own interpretation of some of the comments I will repeat a paragraph from the top of this page:

    Even though the risk of disease may be low for a fully vaccinated child or adult, we must consider that there are still people who remain vulnerable. For example, children under a year old who haven’t been vaccinated as explained above, as well as children who haven’t had their second dose who may only remain at greater risk. And of course there are those, both children and adults, who can’t receive an MMR vaccine due to various medical reasons. They must rely on protection from those of us who can.

    And repeat a paragraph the comment above yours:

    Some individuals are simply incapable of developing protective antibody titers, either as the result of infectious disease or as the result of vaccination.This of course argues strongly in support of routine vaccination, as such individuals rely on herd immunity for protection from infection.

    Is my comment a bit more clear, or do you need more explanation?

    Now, if you have a better way to prevent measles, mumps and rubella, please present it along with supporting documentation that your plan would work. Also if you have evidence that the MMR vaccine which has been used in the USA since 1971 causes more harm than measles then post the PubMed indexed study by reputable qualified researchers to support your answer.

    Like

  118. Chris
    April 8, 2014 at 6:16 pm

    Stupid typo of homonym: ” not do to the folks” should be ” not due to the folks”

    Like

  119. dingo199
    April 8, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    Ken :
    Well, the anti-vaccine crowd proved the math that exactly 50% of the public is below average intelligence.

    I guess you could be more accurate by stating that “Less than 50% of the public are of above average intelligence”

    Like

  120. dingo199
    April 8, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    Sterisky :
    “It is disingenuous to believe the vaccine should give better immunity than the actual disease.”
    How can you talk out of both sides of your mouth? On one hand you say get your vaccinations they protect you, and on the other, you say it is disingenuous to believe they do protect you? Do you ever hear anybody say these vaccines are only XXX effective? The average Joe believes that vaccines do protect you. Most don’t know that they only offer partial protection. So your statement above really is ridiculous.

    No, it is quite sensible.
    We know that not everyone getting a natural, wild viral infection generates protective immunity. A tiny minority of kids do have suboptimal responses to generate neutralising antibody, likely due to genetic variation in some specific immune responses.
    If a natural viral infection won’t generate good adaptive immunity, why would you expect that in the same child, vaccine-induced adaptive immunity should be “better”?
    That is all that Chris was saying.

    Like

  121. Chris
    April 8, 2014 at 8:49 pm

    Thank you, Dingo. I guess I made it too difficult to understand.

    When I was growing up it seemed there was a thought that kids could get mumps again if it was only on one side. I vividly remember it was both sides, painful and I could barely open my mouth to consume liquids.

    So with with the “one side at a time” myth, I guess it was rare, but not uncommon, to get it more than once. Perhaps we should be glad the vaccine works as well as it does, though more would be protected with community immunity.

    Like

  122. JGC56
    April 9, 2014 at 10:54 am

    “Do you ever hear anybody say these vaccines are only XXX effective?”

    Actually yes, all the time. It’s hardly something that’s being kept a secret. For example, the CDC website states “In general, DTaP vaccines are 80-90% effective”, making it clear that DTaP vaccination doesn’t provide 100% of those vaccinated with protection from infection.

    Like

  123. April 11, 2014 at 5:24 pm

    I for all time emailed this blog post page to all my contacts, for the reason that if like to read it then
    my contacts will too.

    Like

  124. Sirtruthalot
    April 12, 2014 at 7:56 am

    Herd immunity was a concept that developed after observing how natural immunity–something like 67%–protected the rest of a particular community. Herd immunity has never been proven to exist due to a vaccinated population. It is, however, a concept that vaccine supporters have chosen to grab and use in their quest to vaccinate 98% of the population. Here is another thing that hasn’t been proven: the presence of antibodies equals immunity. In fact, it’s a well known fact that even those who have been vaccinated, and who also have the presence of antibodies, when exposed to a disease may still come down with the very same disease they were vaccinated for. Please understand that herd immunity can ONLY be used for what it was initially created: natural immunity, not artificial immunity as a result of vaccines.

    Like

  125. Lawrence
    April 12, 2014 at 8:33 am

    @Sir – that’s just silly. Not only is “herd immunity” proven via simple mathematical equations, it is also borne out by practical observation (like the experience in eradicating Smallpox, Rinderpest & the almost complete eradication of Polio).

    It also neatly explains the 95 – 99.9% decrease in incidence rates of vaccine preventable diseases after mass vaccination programs…..seriously, if you are going to spew nonsense, don’t do so by going after a concept that hasn’t been proven over and over and over again.

    http://www.vaccines.gov/basics/protection/

    Because a person who is immune (and a population of immune individuals) doesn’t matter a whit whether or not the immunity was done through infection or vaccination – which doesn’t affect the concept of herd immunity either.

    Like

  126. Chris
    April 12, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    “Sirtruthalot”: “Please understand that herd immunity can ONLY be used for what it was initially created: natural immunity, not artificial immunity as a result of vaccines.”

    How well did that work before 1960? How come there were hundreds of thousands of measles cases each year during the 1950s, and a small fraction fifty years later. See this data from the CDC Pink Book Appendix G:

    Now for measles:
    Year_Cases_Deaths__Year___Cases____Deaths
    2000____86___ 1____1950__319124____468
    2001___116___ 1____1951__530118____683
    2002____44___ 0____1952__683077____618
    2003____56___ 1____1953__449146____462
    2004____37___ 0____1954__682720____518
    2005____66___ 1____1955__555156____345
    2006____55___ 0____1956__611936____530
    Total___460____4_________3831277___3624

    So do tell us which decade that “herd immunity” was doing better.

    Like

  127. novalox
    April 12, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    @sir

    [citation needed] for your assertion, because it files in the face of established science.

    Like

  128. Narad
    April 12, 2014 at 2:27 pm

    Sirtruthalot :
    Herd immunity was a concept that developed after observing how natural immunity–something like 67%–protected the rest of a particular community.

    False.

    Herd immunity has never been proven to exist due to a vaccinated population.

    False. Aside from the obvious examples, explain why vaccinating Japanese children against the flu protected the elderly.

    Like

  129. Sirtruthalot
    April 12, 2014 at 5:22 pm

    Before I begin this very long response, let me start with a simple question to all those in favor or against vaccines. Are children healthier in 2014 than they were 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago? I would say the answer is an easy one: they aren’t healthier at all.
    In fact, quite the contrary: kids are sicker today in many ways.
    There are more allergies, cancer and autism amongst kids today than there ever was. At the time of this post, autism is 1 in 68. If you truly believe that vaccines are in no way responsible, look at the fact that 2.8 billion has been paid out to families of vaccine-injured kids. Google the landmark case of Hannah Poling.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

    It’s not enough that doctors are all a aware of the statistics when it comes to autism: 1 in 68. It’s not enough that they hear about landmark cases like Hannah Poling’s where a healthy child basically disappeared before her parents’ eyes. It’s not enough that whistle blowers like Krahling and his co-worker from Merck came forward and explained how blood samples were tainted with animal antibodies to give the appearance of working when in fact, they couldn’t prove anything close to a 95% efficacy rate. It’s not enough that parents have witnessed changes right after their children received toxic adjuvants. It’s not enough that Japan banned the MMR and Gardisal shots. It’s not enough that over billions have been paid out in the US to families of vaccine injured children. Whatever evidence we have to support how we think and feel, regardless, it’s not enough for them. It never is. You see, these doctors work for the establishment. They continue to deny the link between vaccines and autism, between vaccines and death, between vaccines and any neurological injuries, regardless of what the studies which were not paid for by big pharma support. Pro vaxers want us to simply listen to what they say and follow them down the path to medical misery. But ask these same doctors if they will waive their liability exemption and put their money where their mouth is, and then see what they say. Ask this same doctor if he or she will put it in writing that vaccines are safe and are guaranteed to not harm your child and I will tell you this: you will see that very same doctor flee the room. They will somehow be all booked up to see you and your child ever again. To quote Jack: “You can’t handle the truth.” When billionaire politicians like Bloomberg attempt to force a flu shot on all children 6 months to 6 years old, knowing full well that these shots have done serious damage, including death, we as parents have to stand up and make it known that we have a choice and they can’t take that choice away.
    My ranting will give way to some rebuttals to my responses:
    I checked and it was Hedrich in 1929 who studied herd immunity and in 1933, I believe, is when he reported his findings. 68 percent who dealt with a disease, survived and thrived, created natural herd immunity for the rest of the community.

    Let’s make sure we are on the same page: Vaccination is the act of artificially acquiring a disease so as to become immune to it. This word “immunizing” is bull shit. A child is vaccinated and not immunized. Vaccination is flawed in a number of ways. Firstly, a vaccine contains many hazardous chemicals and not just the viruses to immunize against. These each have their own toxic effect on the body. Don’t believe me? Check out VAERS and see how many adverse reactions are reported due to toxic chemicals like aluminum, formaldehyde and mercury to name a few. Flu shots still have mercury–thimerosal–in them. Secondly, the route of entry is different to a naturally occurring disease. Most natural diseases would enter through the mouth or the nasal cavity, not the skin.

    Vaccination breaks the skin with a needle and injects foreign matter into the blood supply.
    This bypasses the skin’s role in immune function, as well as the tonsils, the mucous membranes, and so on.

    Normally, the body produces extra antibodies after being primed by the tonsils that there is impending infection. Therefore, if the infection takes hold, there will be an army of white blood cells, ready to neutralize the infection.
    In the case of vaccination, this infection goes straight to the blood, with no prior build up for the body, and there are no extra immune cells to deal with it.
    Also, with vaccination there is more than one disease present (e.g. measles, mumps, rubella all in one), whereas naturally a child would never contract 3 diseases at the same time. This puts additional strain on the immune system.

    What sort of problems can this cause?

    Injection of vaccine via this unnatural route can use up 70% of the immune system’s resources, instead of the usual 3 to 4% with a wild occurring disease (according to Cynthia Cournoyer, ‘What About Immunizations?’, Dennis Nelson Publishers, 1991).
    Because the body has no extra antibodies waiting to counter the vaccine, it can go into overdrive in an attempt to deal with the situation, taking much needed vitamins away from bones and other organs, to use for the production of more antibodies. This means that the other vital systems go short on vitamins, in extreme cases leading to bone fractures caused by the immune response leaching vitamins to cope with the vaccine. This lack of vitamins can also cause bruising and retinal bleeding and haemorrhaging, which is why some vaccine damaged babies have been falsely labelled as ‘shaken baby syndrome’ cases. These type of vaccine injuries are similar to those caused by trauma.

    The massive surge of antibodies created by the vaccine can also cause the body to become hypersensitive and this is responsible for the increase in allergies and auto-immune diseases. Allergies are an over-exposure to toxic elements which the body is unable to cleanse itself of.
    If the adrenals, which include the pancreas, the pituitary gland and the spleen, become over-stimulated, for instance, by vaccination, this can cause the body to become toxic and unable to regulate itself. This has been linked to heart disease, diabetes, asthma and bronchitis, to name a few. Over-stimulating the adrenals also causes a decrease in circulation of blood round the body, and atrophying of vascular vessels.
    It is in this state of dysfunction and chemical overload, from vaccines, pollution, junk food, pharmaceutical drugs and so on, that our bodies become less able to stay healthy.

    ‘When the body is in its ideal state of harmony, there is no need for “immunity.” In such a state of harmony and balance, the thymus functions properly as the central regulator for the proper digestion of elements and all that is taken into the body is digested and excreted.’ – (Stonebridge Associated Colleges, 2005).

    In the time immediately following vaccination, when extra vitamins are being used up to fight the vaccine, this may actually make the person more susceptible to the disease. For instance, in the Merck, Sharp and Dohme LTD product information for HIB vaccine, it states: ‘Cases of Haemophilus B disease may occur in the weeks after vaccination’, and in Lederle Hibtiter information sheet, ‘Cases of HIB disease, although rare, may occur after vaccination.’ This is known as ‘PROVOCATION disease’, i.e. disease caused by vaccine.
    Live vaccines are more likely to pass on the disease to their recipient or his close contacts, as the viruses are excreted in urine, faeces and saliva for up to 3 weeks after each shot.
    The polio vaccine was changed from the live oral vaccine to part of the injectable, killed 5 in 1, because the only cases of polio in western countries were caused by the vaccine.

    Vaccine caused diseases are often more severe than the naturally occurring disease. For instance, ATYPICAL measles, only experienced by vaccinated children, is much more serious because the vaccine suppresses the child’s rash, which is his means of excreting the toxins, and this leads to the toxins being pushed deeper into the body and affecting the major organs and sometimes the brain, as atypical measles encephalitis.
    Vaccine viruses can also attach themselves to cells, organs and brain tissue and cause cancers, disabilities and brain injury, as in the case of a boy who became autistic and had a seizure disorder after his MMR jab at 15 months. Great Ormand Street Children’s Hospital tested him at 13 years of age and found remains of vaccine viruses in the injured parts of his brain. (The Sunday Express, 6 October 2002).
    Antibodies to brain tissue have also been found in blood tests of autistic children.

    Even with inactivated vaccines, it is possible for the killed virus or bacteria to mutate into a different form of the disease. For instance, a 16 year old Canadian girl died of Meningitis B after her boyfriend had been given the Meningitis C vaccine. Lab tests confirmed that the vaccine can mutate into B form and infect both the recipient and his or her close contacts. (Pulse, doctor’s magazine, 20th November 1999).
    Large numbers of chronic diseases have evolved in the place of infectious disease, since the introduction of mass vaccination, including ME, Lupus, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, Autism (previously known as Kanner Syndrome, discovered by Dr. Kanner in the 1940’s), MS, Ebola virus, AIDS, Lichen Planus, Vulvodynia and other hypersensitivity conditions, not to mention the rife and uncontrollable rates of cancer, heart disease, asthma, eczema and other allergies. Even meningitis was extremely rare before the 20th century.

    We are killing ourselves in our quest to ‘prevent’ childhood illness, as mother nature is stronger than man, so tampering with immune function can have disastrous consequences for all.

    Vaccines Cause Immune Suppression as well.
    Consider Immunostimulation Versus Immunosuppression after Multiple Vaccinations: the Woes of Therapeutic Vaccine Development
    Three articles in this issue of Clinical Cancer Research show how multiple vaccinations can lead to immunosuppression. Moreover, two studies in patients show that granulocyte macrophage colony-stimulating factor (GM-CSF) as an adjuvant immunostimulant to different kind of vaccines can lead to adverse outcome in terms of relapse-free and overall survival. Modulation of regulatory T-cell activity may be required to overcome this outcome and may be crucial for the successful development of therapeutic vaccines.

    Source: (Clin Cancer Res 2009;15(22):6745–7)
    Cancer Patients Injected With Cancer Vaccine Caused ‘Early Melanoma Deaths’
    Ninety-seven patients with resected melanoma (stage II-IV) were enrolled, stratified by stage, and randomized to receive a cellular melanoma vaccine with or without GM-CSF. The primary endpoint was delayed-type hypersensitivity (DTH) response to melanoma cells. Antibody responses, peripheral leukocyte counts, and survival were also examined.

    Results: The GM-CSF arm showed enhanced antibody responses with an increase in IgM titer against the TA90 antigen and increased TA90 immune complexes. This arm also had diminished antimelanoma cell delayed-type hypersensitivity response. Peripheral blood leukocyte profiles showed increases in eosinophils and basophils with decreased monocytes in the GM-CSF arm. These immune changes were accompanied by an increase in early melanoma deaths and a trend toward worse survival with GM-CSF.

    Conclusion: These data suggest that GM-CSF is not helpful as an immune adjuvant in this dose and schedule and raise concern that it may be harmful. Based on the discordant findings of an immune endpoint and clinical outcome, the use of such surrogate endpoints in selecting treatments for further evaluation must be done with a great deal of caution.

    Source: (Clin Cancer Res 2009;15(22):7029–35)
    Partial CD4 Depletion Reduces Regulatory T Cells Induced by Multiple Vaccinations
    Results: Multiple vaccinations, rather than boosting the immune response, significantly reduced therapeutic efficacy of adoptive immunotherapy and were associated with an increased frequency and absolute number of CD3+CD4+Foxp3+ T regulatory (Treg) cells. Anti-CD4 administration reduced the absolute number of Treg cells 9-fold. Effector T-cells generated from anti-CD4–treated mice were significantly (P < 0.0001) more therapeutic in adoptive transfer studies than T cells from multiply vaccinated animals with a full complement of CD4+ cells.

    Conclusion: These results suggest that CD4+ Treg cells limit the efficacy of multiple vaccinations and that timed partial depletion of CD4+ T cells may reduce suppression and “tip-the-balance” in favor of therapeutic antitumor immunity. The recent failure of large phase III cancer vaccine clinical trials, wherein patients received multiple vaccines, underscores the potential clinical relevance of these findings.

    Source: (Clin Cancer Res 2009;15(22):6881–90)
    1 in 5 Americans Suffer From Allergies
    If springtime breezes bring you sniffles, you can take comfort in the knowledge that you are not alone.

    For reasons that researchers do not fully understand, allergies to pollen, dust, pet dander and food have become more prevalent among Americans in recent decades. Today, one out of every five Americans suffers from allergies, according to the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America.

    “We don't know why the incidence of allergies is on the rise,” said Maya Jerath, M.D., Ph.D., an assistant professor in the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine and director of the UNC Allergy and Immunology Clinic.

    Nor do researchers understand why an allergy develops in the first place. “That has baffled people and continues to baffle people in this field a lot,” she said.

    An allergy is an immune reaction to a harmless substance, such as a pollen grain or peanut protein. Instead of ignoring the substance, the body produces antibodies to mount a fight against it. Allergy symptoms can range from itchy eyes and sneezing to life-threatening anaphylactic reactions.

    The causes of allergies remain elusive in part because the immune system's role is complex, Jerath said. The system must defend the body from countless foreign invaders in food, water and the air around you.

    Significantly for allergy sufferers, the immune system must also learn to distinguish particles that are dangerous from those that are not. For most people, this learning occurs during early childhood.

    “If it doesn't get adequate exposure to certain things, those regulatory mechanisms don't get set up,” Jerath said.

    For that reason, some researchers believe that a lack of exposure to microorganisms early in life may precondition a person to allergies. This explanation, called the “hygiene hypothesis,” suggests that growing up surrounded by many other children, dirt or livestock helps the immune system develop a tolerance to harmless irritants.

    Source: Physorg.com, by Sara Peach, 24 February 2010.
    The spectrum of post-vaccination inflammatory CNS demyelinating syndromes
    A wide variety of inflammatory diseases temporally associated with the administration of various vaccines, has been reported in the literature. A PubMed search from 1979 to 2013 revealed seventy one (71) documented cases. The most commonly reported vaccinations that were associated with CNS demyelinating diseases included influenza (21 cases), human papilloma virus (HPV) (9 cases), hepatitis A or B (8 cases), rabies (5 cases), measles (5 cases), rubella (5 cases), yellow fever (3 cases), anthrax (2 cases), meningococcus (2 cases) and tetanus (2 cases). The vast majority of post-vaccination CNS demyelinating syndromes, are related to influenza vaccination and this could be attributed to the high percentage of the population that received the vaccine during the HI1N1 epidemia from 2009 to 2012. Usually the symptoms of the CNS demyelinating syndrome appear few days following the immunization (mean: 14.2 days) but there are cases where the clinical presentation was delayed (more than 3 weeks or even up to 5 months post-vaccination) (approximately a third of all the reported cases).

    In terms of the clinical presentation and the affected CNS areas, there is a great diversity among the reported cases of post-vaccination acute demyelinating syndromes. Optic neuritis was the prominent clinical presentation in 38 cases, multifocal disseminated demyelination in 30, myelitis in 24 and encephalitis in 17. Interestingly in a rather high proportion of the patients (and especially following influenza and human papiloma virus vaccination-HPV) the dominant localizations of demyelination were the optic nerves and the myelon, presenting as optic neuritis and myelitis (with or without additional manifestations of ADEM), reminiscent to neuromyelitic optica (or, more generally, the NMO-spectrum of diseases). Seven patients suffered an NMO-like disease following HPV and we had two similar cases in our Center. One patient with post-vaccination ADEM, subsequently developed NMO.

    If you want to see how this H1N1 vaccine marketing campaign destroyed so many women in the US alone, take a look at this stat: in the USA, 3,587 women miscarried after the H1N1 vaccine.

    Again, I bring you back to my very first question and it is just in the population of children. Are children healthier than they were 10, 20, or 30 years ago? No. They definitely are not. I leave you with this question for you to discover yourself. How many more vaccines will the average child have to endure by the age of 5 in the year 2014 as opposed to 1984? Go find that number and you will see a huge aspect of why kids are not healthier. I wish you luck and if you still believe vaccines are the be all and end all, then go enjoy them. But you can't have it both ways. You can't blame unvaccinated kids for spreading diseases to your vaccinated kids. If your vaccines work so well, you shouldn't be scared in the least. In fact, maybe you parents who are so sure of your vaccines should be keeping your kids away from other vaccinated kids. Read this and still take it with a grain of salt since it is mainstream media reporting. Best of luck.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cold-flu/whooping-cough-vaccine-may-not-halt-spread-illness-f2D11655363

    A government study offers a new theory on why the whooping cough vaccine doesn't seem to be working as well as expected.

    The research suggests that while the vaccine may keep people from getting sick, it doesn't prevent them from spreading whooping cough — also known as pertussis — to others.

    "It could explain the increase in pertussis that we're seeing in the U.S.," said one of the researchers, Tod Merkel of the Food and Drug Administration.

    Like

  130. Chris
    April 12, 2014 at 5:49 pm

    “It’s not enough that Japan banned the MMR and Gardisal shots. ”

    The former killed people: Measles vaccine coverage and factors related to uncompleted vaccination among 18-month-old and 36-month-old children in Kyoto, Japan:

    In Japan, measles vaccine coverage has remained low, and either small or moderate outbreaks have occurred repeatedly in communities. According to an infectious disease surveillance (2000), total measles cases were estimated to be from 180,000 to 210,000, and total deaths were estimated to be 88 [11,12]. Measles cases are most frequently observed among non-immunized children, particularly between 12 to 24 months.

    Also in the 1970s, they stopped vaccinating babies for pertussis, and as a result forty babies died of it in one year. Japan is a perfect example where politics trumping science has been deadly. See:
    Expert Rev Vaccines. 2005 Apr;4(2):173-84.
    Acellular pertussis vaccines in Japan: past, present and future.

    “I checked and it was Hedrich in 1929 who studied herd immunity and in 1933, I believe, is when he reported his findings. 68 percent who dealt with a disease, survived and thrived, created natural herd immunity for the rest of the community.”

    Citation needed. I never heard of him, that is almost a century old, much has changed since then.

    “I believe, is when he reported his findings. 68 percent who dealt with a disease, survived and thrived, created natural herd immunity for the rest of the community. ”

    What about the other 32%? Are you seriously suggesting that we go back to one of three kids dying before adulthood? Even though the survivors are immune adults, babies keep getting born. You advocating for a very cruel version of eugenics.

    “Vaccination breaks the skin with a needle and injects foreign matter into the blood supply.”

    So does scraping your knee, getting scratched by a rose thorn or accidentally cutting yourself with a knife. Big deal.

    “Vaccines Cause Immune Suppression as well.”

    So does getting measles. It suppresses the immune system, which is why there are often secondary infections, and one of the most common side effect is pneumonia.

    “Also, with vaccination there is more than one disease present (e.g. measles, mumps, rubella all in one), whereas naturally a child would never contract 3 diseases at the same time”

    Actually it happens more often than you think. Bacterial infections often occur because of viral infections like measles and varicella, and even influenza.

    ” Flu shots ”

    Not measles.

    “HIB vaccine”

    Not measles.

    “polio vaccine”

    Not measles.

    ” Meningitis B”

    Not measles.

    ” Meningitis C”

    Not measles.

    ” Cancer Vaccine”

    Not measles.

    “H1N1 vaccine”

    Not measles.

    “whooping cough vaccine”

    Not measles.

    Do try to stay on topic, and as for your question: “Are children healthier than they were 10, 20, or 30 years ago? No. They definitely are not.”

    Well they are not dying or suffering from deafness, paralysis, blindness other effects of diseases that they were twenty to thirty years ago. Plus they have a greater chance of reaching adulthood, Impact of Vaccines Universally Recommended for Children—United States, 1900-1998.

    Now the question we have to ask you is why you want 32% child mortality rate. That is horribly criminal.

    Like

  131. Sirtruthalot
    April 12, 2014 at 9:40 pm

    So Christine, let’s talk about herd immunity again. You said,”false” when I said it was used to describe natural immunity. Before you read what’s important, I have a question: how many times have government agencies said that eradication of a certain disease like measles would happen by a certain date? And when has that happened? Never. I can assure you that measles and mumps appear in those vaccinated. In fact, in Ohio State recently, a majority of vaccinated students developed the mumps.
    Do you honestly believe that man is smarter than nature? If you believe that, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

    The term, ‘herd immunity’, was coined by researcher, A W Hedrich, after he’d studied the epidemiology of measles in USA between 1900-1931. His study published in the May, 1933 American Journal of Epidemiology concluded that when 68% of children younger than 15 yrs old had become immune to measles via infection, measles epidemics ceased. For several reasons, this natural, pre-vaccine herd immunity differed greatly from today’s vaccine ‘herd immunity’.1,2

    When immunity was derived from natural infection, a much smaller proportion of the population needed to become immune to show the herd effect; compare the 68% measles immunity required for natural herd immunity to the very high percentages of vaccine uptake deemed necessary for measles vaccine ‘herd immunity’. In his ‘Vaccine Safety Manual’, Neil Z Miller cites research which concluded increasing vaccine uptake necessary for ‘herd immunity’ ranging from “70 to 80 percent of two year olds in inner cities” in 1991 to “‘close to 100 percent coverage’…with a vaccine that is 90 to 98 percent effective.” in 1997. Miller notes that, “When the measles vaccine was introduced in 1963, officials were confident that they could eradicate the disease by 1967.”

    Subsequently, new dates for eradication were pronounced as 1982, 2000 and 2010. Meanwhile, “In 1990, after examining 320 scientific works from around the world, 180 European medical doctors concluded that ‘the eradication of measles…would today appear to be an unrealistic goal.’” And in 1984, Professor D. Levy of Johns Hopkins University had already “concluded that if current practices [of suppressing natural immunity] continue, by the year 2050 a large part of the population will be at risk and ‘there could in theory be over 25,000 fatal cases of measles in the U.S.A.’”

    http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/herd-immunity/herd-immunity-the-misplaced-driver-of-universal-vaccination/

    Like

  132. Chris
    April 12, 2014 at 10:10 pm

    My name is not Christine.

    “The term, ‘herd immunity’, was coined by researcher, A W Hedrich, after he’d studied the epidemiology of measles in USA between 1900-1931”

    Oh, really? Citation needed, because it seems to have been used before, like in 1923 in THE SPREAD OF BACTERIAL INFECTION. THE PROBLEM OF HERD-IMMUNITY..

    “His study published in the May, 1933 American Journal of Epidemiology concluded that when 68% of children younger than 15 yrs old had become immune to measles via infection, measles epidemics ceased. ”

    Oh, really? I found one paper published by him in 1933, so do tell quote me those exact words from The Need of an Index Statisticus*, or give me a link to the paper.

    Plus what happened to the other 32%? Did they die? And why is that a good thing? And why were there epidemic cycles well into the 1960s if “measles epidemics ceased”? Why did they only really stop except for scattered outbreaks after the 1990s? Why do you think it is a good thing for several hundred kids to die from measles every year?

    By the way, Mr. Miller is a journalists with an agenda, and is therefore not a qualified medical researcher. The VRAN website is not a reputable source of medical information. From now on just restrict your citations to PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers.

    Now a couple more questions for you to answer pertaining to the MMR vaccine:

    Please provide a proven way to prevent measles in children.

    Please provide the verifiable scientific evidence that the MMR vaccine has a greater risk than measles.

    Also, the MMR vaccine has been used in the USA since 1971. So if Wakefield had a claim it caused autism in the UK since 1988, he must have found some data from the USA. A much larger country using it for almost twenty years before he came on to the scene. Where is that data?

    Like

  133. Chris
    April 12, 2014 at 10:48 pm

    I noticed someone has tried the “Hedrich” maneuver here a couple of times, and failed. So are you ella or elise, which at least one was someone from Missouri who used to be a lawyer but has been banned several times from this cite.

    So, I am sensing that Mr. Miller doesn’t know how to read a scientific paper, or do simple statistics since he has a history of just botching it all up.

    First off, Hedrich did research into the behavior of epidemics. This is one of his papers on the subject actually available online: THE “NORMAL” FOR EPIDEMIC DISEASES. He tracks the cycles in one city, and the possibility of predicting them.

    (I am out of links, so references will be citations). Now, his papers are references when it comes to finding a threshold to stop epidemics with vaccines. One is:

    J Infect Dis. (2004) 189 (Supplement 1): S17-S22. doi: 10.1086/377694
    Evolution of Measles Elimination Strategies in the United States

    The paragraph on Hedrich’s 1933 paper says:

    The characteristics of measles that supported the feasibility of eradication included its short period of infectiousness, predictable incubation period, high infectivity, characteristic clinical illness, lifelong immunity following infection, and absence of nonhuman reservoir. Sencer et al. [3] cited the 1930s report by Hedrich [4], which indicated that when a sufficient proportion of the population in Baltimore became immune (>53%), epidemics did not develop. This suggested a threshold level of immunity that would protect against a measles epidemic. Sencer et al. [3] recognized that the proportion of children to be immunized to achieve eradication would be higher than suggested by Hed-rich’s data, but they believed that in the United States “the immune threshold (would be) considerably less than 100%” (p. 255).

    How does that match your cut and paste from Neil Z. Miller? It doesn’t. It just proves that Miler does not know epidemiology, and that you cannot think for yourself. You are just blindly following what certain websites say without even bothering to check the papers they are using.

    I did find the first page of the Hedrich’s 1933 paper on measles epidemics, and all I can gather from it was that it was just a way to determine the role of those who were vulnerable during epidemics. Just a measure of herd immunity, and definitely supports that it is very important.

    Like

  134. Narad
    April 13, 2014 at 12:19 am

    Sirtruthalot :
    Before I begin this very long response cut and paste

    FTFY.

    Like

  135. Narad
    April 13, 2014 at 12:25 am

    Sirwrongalot :
    So Christine, let’s talk about herd immunity again. You said,”false” when I said it was used to describe natural immunity.

    Given that you couldn’t even figure out who you should be replying to, I suggest that you answer the original question about influenza before launching into a spam blizzard.

    Like

  136. SirTruthalot
    April 13, 2014 at 6:20 am

    NERD, I wound up not editing my response even though you’re the troll I should have responded to. I will respond when you can prove to me two things:

    1. Prove to me that vaccines are safe.
    2. Prove to me that vaccines are effective.

    Good luck. You will need a lot.

    Like

  137. Lawrence
    April 13, 2014 at 6:51 am

    Let’s see – vaccines are effective:

    http://www.tycho.pitt.edu/

    And vaccines are safe:

    http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf

    So, done and done…..though I’m sure you’ll find some insane reason to reject the evidence in front of your face….but really, it isn’t for you, it is for the rest of the population that can actually think for themselves, instead of relying on notorious anti-vax sources.

    Like

  138. Chris
    April 13, 2014 at 9:31 am

    Dear “Sir Cut and Paste”,

    Prove to us that measles is safe. Also answer my questions from Comment #132. Do not plagiarize random websites, but provide verifiable scientific documentation.

    Like

  139. SirTruthalot
    April 13, 2014 at 11:18 am

    Dear Loretta and Christina,

    Are you kidding me on both counts?
    That study doesn’t prove vaccines are effective!
    In fact, the data cannot be supported of which they base the study on.

    So not done and done. But rather Dumb and Dumb, Chrissie and Loretta.

    You do realize that VAERS is a real thing and that 2.8 billion has been paid out to families of vaccine injured kids. How can you explain that sisters?

    Like

  140. Lawrence
    April 13, 2014 at 11:27 am

    Wow, you have no idea who you are responding to, do you?

    If you have a problem with public health data collected over the past 140 years, you must have a problem with reality….so, can’t help you there.

    Like

  141. Chris
    April 13, 2014 at 11:52 am

    Yes, VAERS is real. But have you read and understood the words before you enter the official database? The bit about the reports do not mean the “vaccine did it.”

    Okay, so there have been about 3540 compensated claims since 1988 from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, many of them table injury awards where the only “proof” is the timing of the symptoms to when the vaccine was given.

    Now let’s look at those numbers:

    There are approximately four million children born in the USA each year, which means that those 3540 claims are out of over a hundred million children (plus millions of older children and adults). If just 80% were fully vaccinated their first year with eighteen jabs, that is about 1.5 billion vaccine doses over the last 26 years. How big is 3500 compared to 1500000000?

    Can you do basic arithmetic?

    So where is that data that shows the MMR is more dangerous than measles?

    Where is the data from before 1990 that the MMR caused autism in the USA, a country both larger and using that vaccine much longer than the UK

    Like

  142. Sirtruthalot
    April 13, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    You have failed to prove safety and one study certainly doesn’t prove effectiveness.

    In fact, University of Pittsburgh conducted a rather important study:
    Read about it here back in 2008:
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/107993.php

    Findings released Friday showed that infant monkeys given vaccines officially recommended by the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) exhibited autism-like symptoms. Lead investigator Laura Hewitson of the University of Pittsburgh and colleagues presented study results at the International Meeting for Autism Research (IMFAR) in London. Safety studies of medicines are typically conducted in monkeys prior to use in humans, yet such basic research on the current childhood vaccination regimen has never before been done.

    The abstracts presented at IMFAR, the world’s top autism science conference, describe biological changes and altered behavior in vaccinated macaques that are similar to those observed in children with autism. Unvaccinated animals showed no such adverse outcomes. The vaccines given were those recommended for U.S. infants in the 1990s, including several with the mercury preservative thimerosal and the Measles-Mumps-Rubella vaccine. Rates of autism spectrum disorder among children born in the 1990s surged dramatically, from about 1 in 5,000 to 1 in 150 children.

    “This research underscores the critical need for more investigation into immunizations, mercury, and the alterations seen in autistic children,” stated Lyn Redwood, director of SafeMinds. “SafeMinds calls for large scale, unbiased studies that look at medical conditions associated with autism and the effects of vaccines given as a regimen.”

    The group’s request for research echoes that of Dr. Bernadine Healy, Former NIH Director, in a CBS interview earlier this week. She asserted that public health officials have been too quick to dismiss an autism-vaccine connection when the research has been insufficient. The government recently conceded a federal vaccine court case which agreed that a child regressed into autism as a result of 9 vaccines given on one day.

    “The full implications of this primate study await publication of the research in a scientific journal,” noted Theresa Wrangham, president of SafeMinds. “But we can say that it demonstrates how the CDC evaded their responsibility to investigate vaccine safety questions. Vaccine safety oversight should be removed from the CDC and given to an independent agency.”

    Like

  143. Chris
    April 13, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    “In fact, University of Pittsburgh conducted a rather important study:”

    Wasn’t that one withdrawn before it was published….and didn’t the researcher have a big bleeding conflict of interest as a vaccine court litigant, wasn’t it on thimerosal which was never in the MMR, didn’t lots of the primate data disappear and didn’t she claim that brain growth was damage?

    It is a big pile of monkey poo.

    So where is the scientific evidence that the MMR vaccine, which has never contained thimerosal, is more dangerous than measles?

    And where is the evidence dated before 1990 that it caused autism in the USA?

    Like

  144. Christine Vara
    April 13, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    SirTruthalot, Given that you have now resigned yourself to using personal insults on numerous occasions on this thread (calling individuals “dumb” and “morons”), your comments have been moderated and your participation on this forum will be restricted if you should continue to ignore our comment policy.

    Like

  145. Narad
    April 13, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    SirTruthalot :
    I will respond when you can prove to me two things

    In other words, you can’t defend your original assertion, so you want to change the subject.

    Like

  146. Lawrence
    April 13, 2014 at 2:38 pm

    @Narad – when shown that his posts were demonstrably false, he decided to change the subject….typical anti-vax behavior.

    I do heartily recommend the Project Tycho link:

    http://www.tycho.pitt.edu/

    Which is a collection of public health and disease reporting information dating all the way back to 1888 – which allows for a very good accounting of how many lives have been saved by the current vaccine programs.

    Like

  147. Chan
    April 13, 2014 at 6:16 pm

    I read these posts and it’s clear that something has been left out.
    Narad, your link is an absolute joke. It shows nothing, proves nothing and is absolutely nothing. A collection of data is great when doctors report all of the data. The problem is, they don’t. You can lose that link my friend.

    Another issue is that those who have received patents on vaccines have also been able to get conflict of interest waivers. Are you familiar with these waivers? That means these same individuals have the ability to vote on issues pertaining to their own patented vaccine being included in the “immunization” schedule. Anyone see a problem with that? That’s as bad as Bernie Madoff creating false statements and mailing them to his clients instead of an independent agency reviewing anything.

    Now it gets worse:
    Four out of eight CDC advisory committee members who voted to approve guidelines for the rotavirus vaccine in June 1998 had financial ties to pharmaceutical companies that were developing different versions of the vaccine. Three out of five FDA advisory committee members who voted to approve the rotavirus vaccine in December 1997 had financial ties to pharmaceutical companies that were developing different versions of the vaccine.

    In the vaccine industry, you will find a plethora of conflicts of interest. These politicians are bought and paid for–funded in many cases by big pharma. These members of the FDA and CDC routinely go back and forth between organizations and back to Merck, Eli Lilly and the rest of Big Pharma. If you don’t see what’s happening, I feel bad for you.

    You are a sheep and asleep, following the government herd. Yes, vaccines do cause autism. No, vaccines are NOT safe. And sorry, but they are NOT effective.

    Any doctor who speaks out against them is banished. No one has proven that vaccines are safe or effective.

    If Reagan hadn’t taken away all liability through the VAERS program, every one of these pharmaceutical companies would be out of business. They couldn’t afford the lawsuits due to damage from vaccines. Parents of unvaccinated kids would be happy to take part in any study that compares the health of their kids to those of vaccinated kids. But it will never happen. Why? Because the secrets of pharmaceutical companies will be exposed? Vaccinated kids are NOT healthier.

    Here’s what we would see in un-vaccinated kids: Less autism by a great deal: more like 1 in 100,000 are autistic in non vaccinated kids. My feeling is, the pregnant mother would have gotten a flu shot filled with mercury and aluminum which led to the child’s autism. Less need for doctors and less ear infections by a landslide in non-vaccinated kids. Less sickness, less allergies, less cancer and overall health substantially better in a vaccine free child. JFK had this to say: “The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie–deliberate, contrived and dishonest–but the myth–persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

    Like

  148. Lawrence
    April 13, 2014 at 6:37 pm

    @Chan – do you have evidence or citations for any of that? (I’m not holding my breath)

    Like

  149. Chris
    April 13, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    Chan: “Here’s what we would see in un-vaccinated kids: Less autism by a great deal: more like 1 in 100,000 are autistic in non vaccinated kids.”

    Citation needed. Plus since the MMR vaccine has been around in the USA since 1971, about twenty before Wakefield came onto the scene, please provide verifiable documentation that there was an increase in autism in the USA due to the MMR dated before 1990. If it caused autism, it would have been noticed in a larger country that had been using the vaccine longer than the UK.

    “My feeling is, the pregnant mother would have gotten a flu shot filled with mercury and aluminum which led to the child’s autism.”

    The MMR vaccine neither contained thimerosal nor aluminum salt adjuvants. Therefore that statement is off topic.

    Like

  150. Chan
    April 13, 2014 at 6:58 pm

    Narad – my bad. It was Lawrence who posted that link. Lawrence, you have anything else? That’s it? That’s your argument? Flimsy. As I read through these posts, I see that you were shot down a few times with that same link. And yet you keep bringing it up.

    There is so much data to support the link between vaccines and autism that even in the face of 1 in 68 kids being diagnosed with autism, it’s unbelievable that some just don’t see it. They believe whatever their good old Uncle Sam will tell them. But look at specific cases including Hannah Poling’s and others. There have been billions of dollars paid out to these families who have had to endure the health issues of their vaccine injured loved ones.
    Why do you think the government would pay a cent to these families if these vaccines were not to blame? The truth is, they wouldn’t pay out anything if vaccines weren’t causing havoc across this country.

    Like

  151. Gray Falcon
    April 13, 2014 at 7:01 pm

    Chan, why should we believe you?

    Like

  152. Lawrence
    April 13, 2014 at 7:04 pm

    @Chan – and what link would that be? I ask, because not a single anti-vax militia member has managed to provide even a hint of evidence or citations that back up their singular claims that vaccines are somehow responsible for anything (other than a dramatic decrease in childhood illness, deaths and disablements).

    As to the Vaccine Court – it seems to me that it is working as intended – that those who suffer a legitimate serious reaction from vaccines are legitimately compensated….you mention the Polings – interesting, because they’ve stated publicly that their case is being used by the anti-vax crowd, against their wishes, to promote an agenda that they, themselves, don’t agree with.

    So, if you are able to provide any actual evidence to refute what I & others have presented, then please do so – otherwise, you should probably go home.

    Like

  153. Chris
    April 13, 2014 at 7:06 pm

    Chan: “But look at specific cases including Hannah Poling’s and others”

    She has a rare mitochondrial disorder and was given an award as due to a table injury. She does not have autism.

    .”There have been billions of dollars paid out to these families who have had to endure the health issues of their vaccine injured loved ones.

    Okay, so there have been about 3540 compensated claims since 1988 from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, many of them table injury awards where the only “proof” is the timing of the symptoms to when the vaccine was given.”

    Now let’s look at those numbers:

    There are approximately four million children born in the USA each year, which means that those 3540 claims are out of over a hundred million children (plus millions of older children and adults). If just 80% were fully vaccinated their first year with eighteen jabs, that is about 1.5 billion vaccine doses over the last 26 years. How big is 3500 compared to 1500000000?

    Can you do basic arithmetic?

    So where is that data that shows the MMR is more dangerous than measles?

    Where is the data from before 1990 that the MMR caused autism in the USA, a country both larger and using that vaccine much longer than the UK

    Why do I feel I am repeating myself to the same person? So was it the left sock earlier today, or the other one?

    Like

  154. Lawrence
    April 13, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    @Chan – hmmmm…in unvaccinated kids, I would expect to see mass outbreaks of measles, mumps, and rubella – not to mention hundreds, if not thousands of deaths of babies from congenital defects due to rubella infections during pregnancy (like we saw in the last great outbreaks in the 1960s)…I would also expect to see more childhood blindness & deafness, children suffering from encephalitis and pneumonia, due to infection from these diseases….upwards of 20 – 25% requiring hospitalization, as we’ve seen from recent outbreaks in Europe.

    And, we’d also see an equivalent number of children with autism (those that survive the VPDs, that is).

    This is what the Tycho Project tells us….

    http://www.tycho.pitt.edu/

    Like

  155. Lawrence
    April 13, 2014 at 7:10 pm

    @Chris – the arguments are the same, even if the people are different (though they don’t seem to be, do they?)

    Still wrong & easily debunked – over and over again.

    Like

  156. Chan
    April 13, 2014 at 7:30 pm

    Chris, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Autism is just one tragic epidemic that we’re dealing with now. Look at how many vaccines were administered in the 1980’s when autism was 1 in 10,000. You do the math, boy. Look at the recent numbers: 1 in 68 will be diagnosed with autism. How many vaccines will a child born today have to endure by the age of 5 compared to a child of the 1980’s? Look it up and report it. That’s your homework. Please make the grade young man. We all have faith in you.
    Lawrence, you would expect to see massive break outs of mumps, etc… Well, look at the Amish community. How much autism do they encounter? Do you believe that unvaccinated children are spreading disease around? Is that what you really think?

    Like

  157. Chris
    April 13, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    ” Look at how many vaccines were administered in the 1980′s when autism was 1 in 10,000.”

    Then provide me the answers to my questions. And since this article is about measles, keep to measles vaccination.

    The first measles vaccine was in 1963, and was followed up by the MMR in 1971. They were both in use before the 1980s. So, you should be okay dokay with the MMR. So all of your complaints of off topic.

    Unless, of course, you can answer my questions. Do I need to repeat them for a third time?

    Like

  158. Lawrence
    April 13, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    Oops, wrong post…

    Once again, nothing but anti-vax talking points.

    1) the Amish do, in fact vaccinate, and they do have an autistic population. Worse for them, due to their limited gene pool, their children suffer from genetic conditions so rare, that outside of the Amish, they didn’t even have names. Child mortality among the Amish is extremely high, so please don’t hold them up as some paragons of health.

    2) Despite the increase in total vaccinations, the number of antigens in the current vaccine schedule is a fraction of what it was in the 1980s.

    Again, please provide actual facts, because up to now, you have none.

    Like

  159. Narad
    April 14, 2014 at 12:43 am

    Chan :
    You do the math, boy…. That’s your homework. Please make the grade young man.

    Yah. OK, here’s yours: If the ASD rate continues to increase at 30% per year, how long will it be until it reaches 1 in 4? Please calculate this to two decimal points and show your work.

    Or consider any further remarks about “doing math” to be a sign of bluster and incompetence.

    Like

  160. Chris
    April 14, 2014 at 1:09 am

    Narad: “Or consider any further remarks about “doing math” to be a sign of bluster and incompetence.”

    I already assumed that when Chan went off on the 1980s vaccine schedule being part of the “good ol’ days” on an article about measles, which has been vaccine preventable since 1963 and the more recent measles vaccine, MMR, was introduced in 1971.

    How can you not know that both 1963 and 1971 were both before the 1980s?

    Like

  161. Ark
    April 15, 2014 at 4:45 am

    Hi everyone. You want to talk measles?
    First of all, let’s address this link that Lawrence keeps posting (pasting).
    All throughout Larry’s posts, he keeps referring to the Pittsburgh study which is funded by Bill and Melinda Gates.
    It seems this project is so flawed that there are so many holes that can be poked through this project, it’s clear that he has not looked into any of this.
    What is most important is to review the data that the Pittsburgh scientists depended upon in order to reach their conclusions. A careful review of the Project Tycho website and its database reveals an absence of the most critical information necessary for making any historical determination about a vaccine’s effectiveness let alone how many deaths were prevented. The Project’s sole accomplishment is to store vast amounts of data (200 million keystrokes) of mortality statistics, including time and location, for 56 infectious diseases over a 125 year period. Scientific data pertaining to vaccination statistics for eight vaccine-specific contagious diseases noted in the NEJM paper is nonexistent. There is no record for the number of people vaccinated for any of the targeted diseases in any given year or location. There are no records for the number of deaths among unvaccinated persons. Nor are there any records of deaths caused by an infectious disease that may have been caused by a vaccine’s infectious agent or in a data set of the population where the vaccine was ineffective and did not provide protection. In fact, the Project contains no data regarding vaccination data at all!! It’s beyond comedic that Lawrence pastes his link to reveal all the stats to get people to believe that vaccines are saving us.

    In addition, the data makes the a priori assumption that the cause of reported deaths due to the infectious diseases that are tracked over the course of 125 years is accurate. Of course, for the majority of this period accurate biological diagnostic technologies to determine an infectious cause of death were either not in existence or were not routinely performed.

    So how did the Pittsburgh scientists derive their conclusions? To understand their modus operandi, the reader is asked to lay aside the most basic principles of the scientific method and critical thought. Rather it would be better to cast our minds back 500 years and adopt an irrational bias that finds more in common with alchemical and magical beliefs than modern science.

    Without the crucial data for making even rough estimates for the number of vaccinated and non-vaccinated individuals for any given year in order to make an appropriate calculation, the study’s method is really quite simple. “We estimated the numbers of cases of polio, measles, rubella, mumps, hepatitis A, diphtheria and pertussis that were prevented by vaccines,” the paper states, “by subtracting the reported number of weekly cases after the introduction of vaccines from a simulated counterfactual number of cases that would have occurred in the absence of vaccination.” A dictionary’s definition for “counterfactual numbers” would be a number that relates to something that has not happened or a case that doesn’t exist. In other words, it is a magically conjured number relying upon mathematical algorithms with no genuine correspondence to the reality of infection rates. Moreover, the paper states it relies on a “quantitative history,” which translates merely into simple plain numbers of death counts without qualifying what those numbers actually represent in any significant, qualitative way (eg., vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated, margin of errors for misdiagnosing causes of death, the rising number of cases of people contracting infections they have been vaccinated against, etc).

    The fact that mortality rates for most of the eight “preventable” infectious diseases under investigation were already declining rapidly before the introduction of vaccines is also ignored categorically. What the Pittsburgh team overlooks is the rapid declining numbers of deaths before the release of specific vaccines.

    An excellent example is the mortality rates due to measles. Before the advent of the measles vaccine in 1963, death rates had already dropped 98.6 percent for the period while mortality records were kept. This steady decline started to plateau to less than 1 per 100,000 in 1944 and gradually diminished during the remaining years, aside from an abnormal spike in 1990 after the measles vaccine became part of the standard vaccination schedule. In 1959, the rate was approximately 1 in half a million, approaching zero, before the vaccine’s 1963 release. Since the study ignores any potential reason for the 98.6 percent drop in measles mortality before 1963, there is no rationale to conclude the measles vaccine prevented any deaths whatsoever. Given the many decades of decline prior to the vaccine, whatever the cause(s) for this downward movement, it very likely would have continued to where measles mortality rates are today without a vaccine ever being developed. For example, there was never a vaccine developed for Scarlet Fever, however, in the UK it declined from being one of the more deadly infectious diseases with a mortality rate of 160 per 100,000 around 1860 to almost zero by 1940. Likewise, pertussis was already rapidly declining before the vaccine became widely used in the late 1940s.

    In what has now become a standardized assault against parents who either delay or withhold vaccinating their children, the Pittsburgh authors want us to believe that non-vaccinated children were responsible for the recent increase in pertussis cases. However, putting aside the pertussis vaccine’s litany of serious and life-threatening risks, data regarding its efficacy is gradually revealing this vaccine as one medicine’s major debacles. What the authors fail to question is whether the vaccine itself might be responsible for this escalation. Dr. Ruiting Lan and his colleagues at the University of New South Wales have identified a new vaccine-resistant genotype of pertussis (ptxP3) that has increased dramatically. It was responsible for about 30 percent of whooping cough cases before the 2008 epidemic to 84 percent of whooping cough cases in Australia today. This new and more deadly strain according to the CDC is now being reported in the US and there is a growing body of research pointing to recent whooping cough outbreaks being directly linked to the vaccine. This alone may account for the increase of whooping cough cases being referred to in the NEJM paper and a reason why vaccinated children are coming down with the infection as well. The foremost question scientists should be concerning themselves, rather than investing millions of dollars to play computer games with Magical Numbers, is to determine whether the DPT vaccine is responsible for the emergence of a vaccine-resistant pertussis outbreaks.

    Like

  162. Lawrence
    April 15, 2014 at 5:20 am

    @Ark – when you are prepared to show that you understand the fundamental differences between mortality and incidence rates, then perhaps we will take you seriously.

    Also, don’t try to substitute Pertussis for Measles – as this is off-topic.

    Like

  163. Chris
    April 15, 2014 at 9:56 am

    Ark: “An excellent example is the mortality rates due to measles. Before the advent of the measles vaccine in 1963, death rates had already dropped 98.6 percent for the period while mortality records were kept.”

    What part of “do not mention deaths” did you not understand?

    Now go up to Comment #6 and show me where the incidence dropped 98.6%. Because I don’t see it.

    By the way: I am detecting Cia Parker style typing.

    Like

  164. Lawrence
    April 15, 2014 at 9:58 am

    @chris – and you know what else greatly reduced the mortality of Polio? Iron Lungs…of course, didn’t do a darn thing to keep those kids from becoming paralyzed….

    The gall of the anti-vax heads to make light of all of the serious complications of disease….

    Like

  165. Chris
    April 15, 2014 at 10:38 am

    Much of the increase in survival is the use of respiratory support to help very sick people breathe. I’ve seen my son get that kind of help with breathing, both as an infant with croup and after his open heart surgery as an adult.

    It is not something one wishes to have their loved ones go through. It is truly better, and cheaper, to prevent the diseases than treat them.

    Like

  166. Lawrence
    April 15, 2014 at 10:52 am

    @Chris – and the other advances of modern medicine, including antibiotics to deal with secondary infections, allowed us to reduce the overall mortality rates – but did nothing to reduce the actual incidence of disease and all of the associated permanent side-effects – like pediatric blindness, deafness, sterility, and congenital birth defects from Rubella (and of course, SSPE – the fatal delayed side-effect from Measles).

    Like

  167. May 8, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    I’m curious to find out what blog platform you’re utilizing?
    I’m having some minor security problems with my latest site and I’d like to find something more
    safeguarded. Do you have any suggestions?

    Like

  1. March 31, 2014 at 10:02 am

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