Home > Policy, Science & Research > Study Shows Support for Tightening School Vaccine Exemptions

Study Shows Support for Tightening School Vaccine Exemptions

ECBT-Bus Shelter Ads_Resized_68.5x47 Emma SmallPeople who believe in the benefit of immunizations often try to encourage others to vaccinate.  They do so because they are motivated by concern for their family and their community.  They understand that widespread immunization programs do more than just protect the individual.  They help protect entire communities.

Sure, there are times when a person may be vaccinated but not achieve the immunity that was expected.  Likewise, there are people who can’t be vaccinated, either because they suffer with certain medical conditions, or they are too young to receive certain vaccines.  But this is why vaccinations are beneficial to public health.  Statistics show that the more people who are vaccinated, the greater the reduction in overall incidence of disease, which in turn leads to less suffering, hospitalization and death.  Therefore, widespread vaccination protect vulnerable members of our society who can’t be vaccinated, who choose not to be vaccinated, or who didn’t achieve optimal immunity from a particular vaccine.  That is the beauty of community immunity.  And this is the issue at the heart of school vaccination policies.

Unfortunately, under-vaccinated pockets of children in various places across the country are attracting concern.  School vaccination policies that have  improved public health across our nation are now being undermined by a growing number of parents seeking exemptions out of fear, convenience or misinformation.  Parents, who are often complacent about diseases they rarely encounter due to the success of our nation’s widespread vaccination programs, are sometimes choosing to exempt their children from school required vaccines.   But in the past few years, in states like California, Washington, Vermont and most recently Oregon, there has been a growing movement to reduce the number of nonmedical exemptions being filed in order to ensure that falling vaccination rates don’t result in the return of dangerous diseases.

A new study out today provides a closer examination of state school vaccination policies and suggests that states with fewer barriers have higher exemption rates The study indicates that while school immunization policies have historically been able to suppress diseases, the rates of nonmedical exemptions are now increasing and have been associated with resurfacing clusters of vaccine-preventable diseases, such as measles.  The study goes on to explain how states with simpler immunization exemption procedures had nonmedical exemption rates that were more than twice as high as those in states with more-complex procedures. In conclusion, the study suggests that if policy makers are seeking to control exemption rates to achieve public health goals they should consider tightening nonmedical exemption procedures and should add vaccine education components to the procedures by either mandating or encouraging yearly educational sessions in schools for parents reluctant to have their children vaccinated.

But here’s the real kicker.  

According to the study, although there were more attempts by state legislatures to broaden exemptions than to tighten them in 2011–13, only bills tightening exemptions passed.

This is encouraging news and demonstrates how effective we can be when we organize parents, providers and public health professionals in a common goal to educate others on the importance of childhood immunizations and how they are achieved through state school vaccination policies.  Yet, a recent hearing in Minnesota, where the State Department of Health was calling for school vaccine requirements to match those recommended by the CDC, is a perfect illustration of what we are still up against.

While there will always be a small contingency of people who actively seek to convince others not to vaccinate, we must find ways to speak out in favor of strong immunization policies that help protect the health of our children in school and we must support the public health professionals and policymakers who do the same.

If you would like to be informed of policies considerations in your state, sign up to receive important news alerts on our Vaccinate Your Baby website.

  1. July 9, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    This is an issue I struggle with. One one hand, vaccines are a lot like seatbelts. We know they keep us safe and it is good policy to require their usage, but on the other hand do we really want the government dictating what we do in our private lives?

    To some degree a seatbelt is an easier issue to resolve as it only impacts the person wearing it. When a passenger in my vehicle isn’t buckled up, it doesn’t increase my risk of an injury if we are involved in an accident. On the flip side, if I fail to vaccinate myself I do present a risk to others as I have the potential to spread disease.

    So what is the solution? Education campaigns are great, but information only works to brains willing to accept it. We can’t totally eliminate exemptions as that seems to go against the entire concept of personal choice. We can require people to wear seatbelts as a condition of being allowed the privilege to drive… we can’t hardly require people to be vaccinated as a condition of being human.

    One possible tool is simply not allowing unvaccinated people to engage in extracurricular activities. I’ve even heard some suggest unvaccinated children shouldn’t be allowed to attend public schools since they increase the risk of an outbreak exponentially. I’m not sure we should go that far, but surely there has to be a way to balance the risk of spreading disease against personal choice.

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  2. Laura Condon
    July 9, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    Haven’t you just about had it with those who don’t vaccinate??!! I think we should make unvaccinated children go to an entirely different school, separate from vaccinated children. Yup, two entirely separate groups. Keep them separate in everything. Then just watch how sick those unvaccinated children get. Watch them for tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella, Hep B, Hep A, HIB, rotavirus, varicella zoster, herpes zoster, pneumonia, polio, meningitis. Just you watch. And while we’re at it let’s also watch them for made up illnesses like autism, peanut allergies, asthma, ear infections, and “gluten intolerance”. We’ll see whose children are the healthiest!! That will teach them not to be anti-vaccine!!

    Like

  3. July 9, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    @laura – actually, many anti-vax parents home-school their children or send them to private schools (like the Waldorf schools – which seem to close quite frequently due to outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases).

    Research on groups of vaccinated and unvaccinated children show that the only difference is that the unvaccinated children suffer higher rates of VPDs….imagine that.

    Vaccines for school is good public health policy, since kids entering public schools for the first time will be exposed to many more individuals, with many opportunities to exposure to all kinds of pathogens….best to protect the kids and the staff.

    So laura, are you in favor of good public health policies or not?

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  4. July 9, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    There are a number of valid medical reasons why certain children should not or cannot receive vaccines (compromised immune system due to Leukemia is one), which means that those children have to rely on the rest of us getting immunized to prevent them from getting a disease that their bodies are ill-equipped to handle.

    By allowing a multitude of “false” exemptions – and that’s what they are, false, because they aren’t based on real Science or Facts, we are putting the children that actually require valid exemptions at a much higher risk….again, it is good public health policy to require vaccinations for Public Schools & I would be in favor of tightening the restrictions – because parents have a choice not to send their kids to Public Schools, as there are plenty of alternatives.

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  5. Derica Benoit
    July 9, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    Could you imagine Pediatricians and Pharmaceutical Companies having to explain why all the “Healthy” kids are unvaccinated? Separation will NEVER happen. They can’t afford that. They can still blame pertussis and measles outbreaks on the unvaccinated if they allow exemptions and the kids to mix. We have one couple in our group of 8 that vaccinates. Their boy is ALWAYS sick. Every time we get together. I don’t know any parent who has done any substantial amount of research and still has chosen to vaccinate. I have two girlfriends who both lost their babies around 6 month. They both had H1N1 flu shot and were never told the dangers.

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  6. Laura Condon
    July 9, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    @Lawrence. So let the anti-vaxers stay out of public schools. Let them send their children to private schools. Yes, we need that data to show how sick their children get. They won’t be convinced till they see the difference and how much healthier vaccinated children are. I’d love to share the info on those “Waldorf” schools showing the frequency of their closing because all their students are sick. Do you a link? I Googled it and couldn’t find anything. And same with the research on the difference between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. It seems that news I see shows vaccinated children getting whooping cough…I don’t understand that. Sure would like to show those anti-vaxers that it is THEIR children getting sick. Do you have info I can share? Yes, I’m in favor of good health policies. I think the only way to show those anti-vaxers is to keep their kids separate and show them how sick their children get without vaccines. It’s really the only way to prove it to them once and for all.

    Like

  7. July 9, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    Laura Condon :
    Haven’t you just about had it with those who don’t vaccinate??!! I think we should make unvaccinated children go to an entirely different school, separate from vaccinated children. Yup, two entirely separate groups. Keep them separate in everything. Then just watch how sick those unvaccinated children get. Watch them for tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella, Hep B, Hep A, HIB, rotavirus, varicella zoster, herpes zoster, pneumonia, polio, meningitis. Just you watch. And while we’re at it let’s also watch them for made up illnesses like autism, peanut allergies, asthma, ear infections, and “gluten intolerance”. We’ll see whose children are the healthiest!! That will teach them not to be anti-vaccine!!

    Made up illnesses?

    Like

  8. July 9, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    Lawrence :
    There are a number of valid medical reasons why certain children should not or cannot receive vaccines (compromised immune system due to Leukemia is one), which means that those children have to rely on the rest of us getting immunized to prevent them from getting a disease that their bodies are ill-equipped to handle.
    By allowing a multitude of “false” exemptions – and that’s what they are, false, because they aren’t based on real Science or Facts, we are putting the children that actually require valid exemptions at a much higher risk….again, it is good public health policy to require vaccinations for Public Schools & I would be in favor of tightening the restrictions – because parents have a choice not to send their kids to Public Schools, as there are plenty of alternatives.

    You do realize that people catch illnesses other places than school, right?

    Like

  9. July 9, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    Laura Condon :
    @Lawrence. So let the anti-vaxers stay out of public schools. Let them send their children to private schools. Yes, we need that data to show how sick their children get. They won’t be convinced till they see the difference and how much healthier vaccinated children are. I’d love to share the info on those “Waldorf” schools showing the frequency of their closing because all their students are sick. Do you a link? I Googled it and couldn’t find anything. And same with the research on the difference between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. It seems that news I see shows vaccinated children getting whooping cough…I don’t understand that. Sure would like to show those anti-vaxers that it is THEIR children getting sick. Do you have info I can share? Yes, I’m in favor of good health policies. I think the only way to show those anti-vaxers is to keep their kids separate and show them how sick their children get without vaccines. It’s really the only way to prove it to them once and for all.

    If you manage find something something that shows non-vaccinated children are getting whooping cough at the same or a higher rate than vaccinated children, I would love to see it.

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  10. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story

    Pediatrics. 2009 Jun;123(6):1446-51.
    Parental refusal of pertussis vaccination is associated with an increased risk of pertussis infection in children.

    Am J Epidemiol. 2008 Dec 15;168(12):1389-96. Epub 2008 Oct 15.
    Geographic clustering of nonmedical exemptions to school immunization requirements and associations with geographic clustering of pertussis.

    Like

  11. July 9, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    @Various sock-puppets –

    How about this to start:

    http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf

    Like

  12. July 9, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    Chris :
    Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story
    Pediatrics. 2009 Jun;123(6):1446-51.
    Parental refusal of pertussis vaccination is associated with an increased risk of pertussis infection in children.
    Am J Epidemiol. 2008 Dec 15;168(12):1389-96. Epub 2008 Oct 15.
    Geographic clustering of nonmedical exemptions to school immunization requirements and associations with geographic clustering of pertussis.

    In order to classify as a scientific experiment/study, you would need to have a control group & a test group. Everything must be the same except what you are testing for.

    That talks about different countries, says nothing about the overall health of the countries, exercise, proper nutrition, exposure to chemicals, etc.

    Like

  13. July 9, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    @economomma – retrospective studies, as shown in the links provided, are extremely valid means for looking at overall outcomes….

    Like

  14. July 9, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    And this one as well:

    http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=19605

    That didn’t take me very long, your search skills are not that great…..

    Like

  15. July 9, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    @Derica – would love to hear your explanation as to why all recent measles outbreaks here in the US (because, you know, we eradicated domestic measles) have been linked to an unvaccinated individual traveling back from overseas, from areas where measles is still endemic…..

    Like

  16. July 9, 2013 at 5:59 pm
  17. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    In order to classify as a scientific experiment/study, you would need to have a control group & a test group. Everything must be the same except what you are testing for.

    So all of the epidemiology studies done in the 1950s showing tobacco caused cancer were not scientific?

    Is my statistics book and class were all wrong when they mentioned those kinds of studies where you look at the populations to see the relative risk of something without actually forcing a group to take that risk were all wrong? How would you choose the control group for parachute use or megadoses of Vitamin A?

    Wow. Just wow.

    Please tell me where you read about doing scientific studies and statistics, because I’d be interested in those books. I only learned it from taking physics, chemistry, oceanography, biology, statistics, structural mechanics, aerodynamics, advanced engineering mathematics and several lab courses in college. Though here are some books where I learned more:

    The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancerby Siddhartha Mukherjee
    Lies, Damned Lies, and Science: How to Sort Through the Noise Around Global Warming, the Latest Health Claims by Sherry Seethaler
    The American Plague by Molly Caldwell Crosby
    Bad Science by Ben Goldacre
    Advanced Engineering Mathematics by Erwin Kreyszig

    Why don’t you help my education by adding to my list.

    Like

  18. Laura Condon
    July 9, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    @Chris. HELP!! Give me something more recent than an article from 1998. I am seeing news stories all around me NOW of vaccinated children being the ones getting pertussis while the unvaccinated are not. We have to show that’s not true.

    Like

  19. Laura Condon
    July 9, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    @Lawrence. Thanks for the autism studies. But where’s the studies that compares vaccinated to totally unvaccinated for autism? We know it is not caused by vaccines so if we look at those totally unvaccinated kids we can show they have just as high a rate of autism as kids who are vaccinated. BOOM! End of story for that conspiracy theory, don’t you think?!!

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  20. July 9, 2013 at 6:30 pm
  21. July 9, 2013 at 6:33 pm
  22. July 9, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    Or an examination of birth cohorts in Iceland for the autism rate?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23788511

    Like

  23. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    “Suspicions have been confirmed for those wary of vaccinating their children. A recent large study corroborates other independent study surveys comparing unvaccinated children to vaccinated children.

    They all show that vaccinated children have two to five times more childhood diseases, illnesses, and allergies than unvaccinated children.

    Originally, the recent still ongoing study compared unvaccinated children against a German national health survey conducted by KiGGS involving over 17,000 children up to age 19. This currently ongoing survey study was initiated by classical homoeopathist Andreas Bachmair.

    However, the American connection for Bachmair’s study can be found at VaccineInjury.info website that has added a link for parents of vaccinated children to participate in the study. So far this ongoing survey has well over 11,000 respondents, mostly from the U.S.A. Other studies have surveyed smaller groups of families.

    Nevertheless, the results were similar. Of course, none of these studies were picked up by the MSM (mainstream media). None were funded by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) or the World Health Organization (WHO) or any national or international health agency or medical profession group.”

    http://worldtruth.tv/vaccinated-children-have-up-to-500-more-disease-than-unvaccinated-children/

    Like

  24. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    “@Chris. HELP!! Give me something more recent than an article from 1998.”

    Try reading the other two studies I provided dated 2008 and 2009. And if you wish you can learn how to use PubMed yourself. For starters you can try these.

    “But where’s the studies that compares vaccinated to totally unvaccinated for autism?”

    Vaccine. 2012 Jun 13;30(28):4292-8. Epub 2012 Apr 20.
    The combined measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines and the total number of vaccines are not associated with development of autism spectrum disorder: The first case-control study in Asia.

    Pediatrics. 2010 Oct;126(4):656-64. Epub 2010 Sep 13.
    Prenatal and infant exposure to thimerosal from vaccines and immunoglobulins and risk of autism

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2010 May;29(5):397-400.
    Lack of association between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and autism in children: a case-control study.

    PLoS ONE 2008; 3(9): e3140 doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0003140
    Lack of Association between Measles Virus Vaccine and Autism with Enteropathy: A Case-Control Study.

    J Autism Dev Disord 2007; 37(2):210-7
    MMR-Vaccine and Regression in Autism Spectrum Disorders: Negative Results Presented from Japan.

    J Child Psychol Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;46(6):572-9.
    No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study.

    And more here: Vaccine Safety: Examine the Evidence

    Now if you do not find any of these studies satisfactory, then please design a study that conforms to the Belmont Report, get it approved by an IRB and write a grant proposal. Submit the grant proposal to SafeMinds, Autism Speaks, Generation Rescu, Autism Trust and NVIC for funding. Then go get it done.

    Though I would suggest you learn how to actually cite, or at least recognize what a citation looks like.

    Like

  25. July 9, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    Or even this?

    http://jpeds.com/webfiles/images/journals/ympd/JPEDSDeStefano.pdf

    So, given the large amounts of real evidence that show that vaccines don’t:

    a) cause autism
    b) negatively effect neurological outcomes

    or that in retrospective population studies autism appears as frequently in undervaccinated and vaccinated groups as vaccinated groups.

    What actual scientific evidence leads you to believe that they do or that the questions haven’t already been answered?

    Like

  26. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    You know what Chris? The irony is that if anyone other than your sacrosanct “approved” sources commissioned such a study, you would disregard it, and your sacrosanct “approved” sources would NEVER commission such a study. Therein lies your logical fallacy. You are so obviously either deluded or paid (I don’t know which, maybe both) that your opinions and preconditions are really irrelevant. I think it quite telling that you suggest where to send proposals and ALL of them are sources you will automatically dismiss out of hand. Get a life!

    Like

  27. July 9, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    @Robert – a survey done by a German homeopath? Seriously? You do know that a homeopath is a person that wouldn’t know Science if it came up and bit them, right?

    Not to mention:

    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/08/31/an-anti-vaccine-administered-survey-back/

    An anonymous survey, self-selected, no less – and how exactly does that stand up to the Scientific Method?

    Like

  28. July 9, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    @Robert – because actual researchers would never have done such a horrible “survey” as you are attempting to pass off as actual Science.

    Really, you are awful at this…..

    Like

  29. July 9, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    @Robert – any and all of those organizations that Chris mentioned demand that Scientific Work be done, but in cases where it was done – they backed out at the last minute because the results weren’t to their liking…..if they conducted “actual” research, instead of shoehorning in their particular “theory” into everything, perhaps they just might put out material of interest…..

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  30. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    Now then, I have provided a link to studies that show that VPD’s in developed countries where they do not pose any significant risks, actually increase the body’s defences against chronic illnesses. Chronic illnesses are repeatedly shown to be higher in vaccinated populations. It only stands to reason that many childhood VPD’s are actually beneficial to the maturation of the immune system to protect today’s children against greater threats later in life. You are short changing today’s babies by giving short term protection and trading it for long term problems. Morally, it is a difficult issue, but I know that to save one life from a VPD at the expense of thousands, if not millions, of chronically ill or damaged lives is not a fair trade off in my book. Vaccines have been deemed in multiple venues to be “unavoidable unsafe”. I will not sacrifice MY child for YOUR benefit (especially when it is a false benefit anyway) EVER!

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  31. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    Lawrence :
    @Robert – a survey done by a German homeopath? Seriously? You do know that a homeopath is a person that wouldn’t know Science if it came up and bit them, right?
    Not to mention:
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/08/31/an-anti-vaccine-administered-survey-back/
    An anonymous survey, self-selected, no less – and how exactly does that stand up to the Scientific Method?

    Character assassination attempts of homeopaths does nothing to further your argument, in fact it weakens your position because you are grasping at straws with ZERO foundation. Then you go on to cite Gorski who is notoriously inaccurate and “under the thumb” for whatever reason. Please get real….

    Certainly you would support the Congressional legislation calling for an independent study of vaccinated versus unvaccinated health outcomes, yes? If not, you are a sad and scared hypocrite.

    Like

  32. July 9, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    @Robert – enjoy Somalia, the Libertarian paradise……

    Also, continuing to post links to quacks & cranks who push incredibly elaborate conspiracy theories, backed up with beliefs in “magic water” isn’t really helping your credibility.

    Like

  33. July 9, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    @Robert – oh, homeopaths need no character assassination, they do it to themselves….

    I would love to see your study design that would get passed an IRB.

    Like

  34. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    Lawrence :
    @Robert – any and all of those organizations that Chris mentioned demand that Scientific Work be done, but in cases where it was done – they backed out at the last minute because the results weren’t to their liking…..if they conducted “actual” research, instead of shoehorning in their particular “theory” into everything, perhaps they just might put out material of interest…..

    I suggest you watch this before you shoot off at the mouth any further, especially considering that TED is normally quite pro pharma.

    Like

  35. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    Lawrence :
    @Robert – oh, homeopaths need no character assassination, they do it to themselves….
    I would love to see your study design that would get passed an IRB.

    If you think that IRB’s are actually “independent” than there is no point addressing anything else you may try to add to the discussion.

    Like

  36. July 9, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    @Robert – be careful, FEMA will come and get you……

    Seriously, you have no idea how actual Science or Research works, do you? If you are putting stock in homeopathy, that says it all….

    Like

  37. July 9, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    This page says everything anybody needs to know about Robert….

    http://worldtruth.tv/category/categories/history/

    Any why nothing he says will ever be relevant to a rational discussion about anything.

    Like

  38. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    Lawrence :
    @Robert – be careful, FEMA will come and get you……
    Seriously, you have no idea how actual Science or Research works, do you? If you are putting stock in homeopathy, that says it all….

    You are making the fatal flaw in argument Lawrence. You are trying to assault truth values with irrelevant ad hominem attack. Truth is truth regardless of source. The fact that you have not refuted any of my points shows that you have nothing to rely upon accept attack and attack is not proof nor is it rebuttal. I have already demonstrated the flaws in your’s and Chris’s versions of “science” and you have not rebutted that either, only attacks. You also have commented after failing to even bother to watch the video I linked to. How do I know? The video is 13 minutes long and you responded in 5 minutes. You obviously are not interested in any information from people who disagree with you because you don’t bother to even investigate it before you shoot your silly mouth off. It really is unfair debating with such an obviously unarmed opponent.

    Like

  39. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    Time for me to go spend some quality time with my non-chronically ill children. Don’t be offended, but I have other things to do than just converse with you people. I will reply when I have free time. Til then….

    Like

  40. novalox
    July 9, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    @robert

    Still employing the argument from assertion, robert?

    Within 3 posts, please post actual credible scientific evidence for your assertions, or we can assume that you are here just to troll and that you are lying.

    Like

  41. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    Robert: “Character assassination attempts of homeopaths does nothing to further your argument,”

    That is hilarious. Robert, do you actually believe that diluting a substance with more water, alcohol or milk powder will make it stronger. Do you also believe that diseases are caused by “miasms”?

    Seriously, where did you last take a course in science? I would say “clown college” but Penn Jillette attended one and he really would not think much of your lack of observable education.

    Ecomomma, I am waiting for me to educate me on scientific studies. So where did you learn what does or does not constitute a real scientific study or experiment?

    By the way, one of the most ecological things to do is to not waste resources. One thing that happens when kids get vaccine preventable diseases is to end up using lots of things like tissues, towels, extra water when taking multiple cool baths to reduce fever, antibiotics, other medications and you would be surprised at all of the disposable things that are used in the hospital, and they need special infection control disposal. My kid ended up in an emergency room due to a now vaccine preventable disease, and lots of disposable plastic was used to deal with his seizures. So do tell me why it is more “ecologically kind” to not prevent measles, pertussis, Hib, mumps, etc. Make sure you provide PubMed indexed studies to support your answer. Though, of course you will! You obviously know so much more science than myself since I am just a lowly aerospace engineer.

    Like

  42. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 10:53 pm

    Ms. Condon, did you figure out how to get to the cites I gave without providing a link? We are limited to two so I gave you enough information to find them through PubMed, or even Google. Talk about a coincidence! There is someone with your same name who is the New Hampshire State Director of Advocacy for the National Vaccine Information Center. Fantastic! You can work directly with Barbara Loe Fisher and her friends to get that study done. Go for it, I know you can do it. Come back when you are done, and do remember to comply to The Belmont Report.

    Like

  43. dingo199
    July 10, 2013 at 7:45 am

    So much disinformation, so many antivaccine lies, so little time……

    But let’s start with the utterly defective internet “research skillz” of the antivax trolls.

    First they say they can’t seem to find evidence that anthroposophic schools like Waldorf- Steiner (which have high rates of unvaccinated pupils) do not have closures or do not suffer outbreaks of vaccine preventable disease.

    http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=19605
    Essen, Germany:

    ”On 15 March 2010, a case of measles was reported to the District Health Office in Essen. In total 71 cases occurred from 15 March to 19 May (four cases hospitalised), with the majority linked to a Waldorf school. Only one case had been vaccinated twice, two cases had been vaccinated once. Immediate and consequent exclusion of non-immune children from classes for two weeks as well as the adjacent spring break prevented the wider spread of the virus.”

    http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/16/3/09-0114_article.htm
    The Netherlands:

    “Subsequently, 52 additional cases were reported from this and from another anthroposophic school in The Hague (cluster 1; Appendix Figure). Two months after the first case, 22 additional cases were reported associated with an anthroposophic summer camp in the east of the Netherlands (cluster 2; Appendix Figure). Five additional cases had an epidemiologic link with an anthroposophic summer camp in France (cluster 3, 2 cases; Appendix Figure) and Switzerland (cluster 4, 3 cases; Appendix Figure). No known measles patients in Switzerland were linked to this cluster (J. Richard, pers. comm.). Subsequently, 12 cases were reported that were associated with 2 daycare centers in the city of Utrecht (cluster 5 and 6), both linked to an anthroposophic community.”

    Then there is the evidence from Catherina already mentioned:
    http://justthevax.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/meanwhile-measles-break-out-in-dutch.html

    So who does get measles in Europe?
    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S353.long
    Communities which have low vaccine uptake rates, like anthroposophic schools, that’s who.

    And not just measles, but other infections too, and this includes such “harmless” diseases as paralytic polio in religious communities and schools where vaccination is frowned upon.
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00017784.htm

    Like

  44. dingo199
    July 10, 2013 at 7:51 am

    Then there is the dismaying inability to find that unvaccinated kids suffer more pertussis than vaccinated ones. It’s enough to make me chunder over my keyboard sometimes.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/6/1446.full

    Unvaxed kids are 23 times more susceptible to pertussis:

    In the primary case-control analysis, vaccine refusal was strongly associated with laboratory-confirmed pertussis (OR: 22.8 [95% CI: 6.7–77.5]) (Table 3). In the secondary case-control analysis of continuously enrolled children, vaccine refusal was also strongly associated with pertussis infection (OR: 19.3 [95% CI: 3.5–104.5]). The percentage attributable risk in the vaccine refuser population was 99.5% (95% CI: 98.1%–99.9%), and the total population attributable risk was 11.0% (95% CI: 5.8%–16.0%). These estimates suggest that all 18 of the unvaccinated pertussis cases were attributed to vaccine refusal, and 11% of the pertussis cases in the total population were associated with vaccine refusal.

    Like

  45. dingo199
    July 10, 2013 at 8:16 am

    And finally is the ridiculous lie that vaccinated kids get more “diseases” than unvaccinated ones. This last claim comes from dingbat Robert (who else) and he kindly cites the link to the evidence from the KIGGS study. Except he doesn’t quote the study itself, but quotes an antivaccine propaganda website’s take on the study (why am I not surprised?).

    In reality, the study showed exactly the opposite:
    Vaccinated kids are no different to unvaccinated kids with respect to their propensity to get conditions such as allergies (which antivaxers claim are prevalent among the vaccinated).
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3057555/

    And regarding infections?

    The lifetime prevalence of diseases preventable by vaccination was markedly higher in unvaccinated than in vaccinated subjects.

    Figure 1 is particularly enlightening.

    So please Robert, don’t cite studies without reading the study, and don’t make further reference to this paper in the future claiming it shows vaxed kids have “up to 500% more diseases”. They don’t.

    Like

  46. July 10, 2013 at 9:47 am

    You are making the fatal flaw in argument Lawrence. You are trying to assault truth values with irrelevant ad hominem attack.

    I find it interesting that you mention ad hominem attacks when a few posts prior you called Chris “deluded”, and in this post you speak of Lawrence being an “unarmed opponent” who shoots his “silly mouth off”.

    I get the feeling you are only offended by ad hominem attacks when it is convenient (ie when you have no information to counter the overwhelming amount of evidence showing the safety of vaccines… much of which has been posted here by others while being ignored by you).

    The link Chris posted earlier (http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf) shows over 40 studies related to vaccine safety and although I completely understand you not responding to them as they counter your worldview, you didn’t even offer acknowledgement that they existed nor were you able to provide a list of studies showing vaccines to actually be harmful.

    So I have just have to ask… are you seriously interested in civil discussion, or are you merely here to troll?

    Like

  47. Narad
    July 10, 2013 at 10:23 am

    But where’s the studies that compares vaccinated to totally unvaccinated for autism?

    I’ll say the same thing I always do when someone glibly trots out this line: Give me the confidence level, power, and signal threshold to convince you that there is no association, and I’ll give you the sample size.

    Like

  48. Dee Ann Souchek
    July 10, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    I read an article about a study a few months ago about fully-vaccinated children being admitted to the emergency room a lot more often than less vaccinated children.

    Like

  49. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    [citation needed]

    Like

  50. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 3:33 pm
  51. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    The study found a positive correlation between the number of vaccine doses administered and the percentage of hospitalizations and infant deaths:

    · Hospitalization rate increased linearly from 11.0 percent for 2 doses to 23.5 percent for 8 doses

    · Hospitalization rate decreased linearly from 20.1 percent for children aged <0.1 year to 10.7 percent for children aged 0.9 year

    · Mortality rate for 1-4 vaccine doses was 3.6 percent

    · Mortality rate for 5-8 vaccine doses rose to 5.5 percent

    · A disproportionate number of hospitalizations were due to the administration of the at-birth dose of the hepatitis B vaccination (73 percent of VAERS cases reported the receipt of hepatitis B vaccine, and 30 percent of these required hospitalization)

    Like

  52. Gray Falcon
  53. Chris
    July 10, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Ms. Souchek, when and where was that article written? How did it contradict the studies posted on this thread? And remember that computer scientists and journalists have poor skills with math, especially if they neglect to include their conflict of interests.

    Here is another:
    MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2012 Apr 20;61:253-7.
    Measles – United States, 2011.

    Which says: “Most patients (86%) were unvaccinated or had unknown vaccination status. The increased numbers of outbreaks and measles importations into the United States underscore the ongoing risk for measles among unvaccinated persons and the importance of vaccination against measles.”

    Like

  54. dingo199
    July 10, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    What is really funny is that this “paper” merely contrives to torture VAERS data which means from the upshot is is compromised entirely by selection bias.
    Also get this:

    While some adverse events that are reported to VAERS may be unrelated to the recent vaccination, the VAERS database is an important postmarketing safety surveillance tool”.

    My emphasis.
    But we know only 3% of VAERS reports are definitiely caused by vaccination. The rest are not linked or have an uncertain or unverifiable link.

    As they say, garbage in, garbage out.

    Like

  55. Dee Ann Souchek
    July 11, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Thanks, Jason, that was the one. I googled it, and the same study is discussed in many places, but it’s definitely one that all parents should be aware of before vaccinating their children. Thanks for adding the details!

    Like

  56. Dee Ann Souchek
    July 11, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    Chris,
    How many of the children who got measles in the outbreaks you mentioned died or were permanently damaged by the disease? And if as many children are damaged or killed by vaccines as would appear in the JAMA study that Jason gave details on as it appears, it would look as if the vaccines were more dangerous than the diseases.

    Like

  57. Chris
    July 11, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    Seriously? What JAMA study? I see no JAMA study. I only mentioned on outbreak, and it was a fairly small one, and that was to only show you that most of those who got measles were not vaccinated.

    Here are some references:
    The Clinical Significance of Measles: A Review

    Then there is data from the CDC Pink Book Appendix G, about five times as many were disabled as died:
    Disease: Measles in the USA
    Year__Cases____Deaths
    1950__319,124__468
    1951__530,118__683
    1952__683,077__618
    1953__449,146__462
    1954__682,720__518
    1955__555,156__345
    1956__611,936__530
    1957__486,799__389
    1958__763,094__552
    1959__406,162__385
    1960__441,703__380
    1961__423,919__434
    1962__481,530__408
    1963__385,156__364
    1964__458,083__421

    Why do yo only care about the outcomes? What makes you think kids like getting high fevers, pneumonia, and other issues with severe diseases? Why do you think it is not worthwhile to prevent disease?

    Plus, what reference shows that “fully-vaccinated children being admitted to the emergency room a lot more often than less vaccinated children”? Nothing Jason posted says that in reality, especially if it is just VAERS data, which is self selected raw submissions without any review.

    Also, again, Ms. Parker, shut down the laptop and get professional help at that clinic at the university medical center. The continued use of sock puppets is not normal. Your closed mind and not caring about child health is why you keep getting banned.

    Like

  1. March 20, 2014 at 7:05 am

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