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Revolutionizing the Vaccine Cold Chain

In our discussions about vaccines it’s always exciting to hear about scientific advancements that are improving our prospects for preventing illness.  From vaccines that can help with addictions, to vaccines to prevent HIV.  From vaccines that are delivered via a patch, or those given through a mist up the nose.  Each day new scientific discoveries are made that may help improve the health of people all across the globe.

But when it comes to global vaccine distribution we’re still facing one stone cold reality.  In order for worldwide immunization programs to be successful, we must establish reliable distribution channels which include individuals trained to administer the vaccines, as well as efficient storage and handling systems that deliver the vaccines from the manufacturer to the people who need them.

Because all the vaccines in the world wouldn’t prevent a single illness if they weren’t properly handled before being administered.

Having recently returned from a visit to the desert, it’s easy to understand the challenges we face in maintaining a proper cold chain supply.  Fortunately, a revolutionary vaccine storage device, designed by Global Good, may be the solution we’ve been waiting for.

Image courtesy of Intellectual Ventures

Image courtesy of Intellectual Ventures

Global Good, which is a collaboration between the Gates Foundation and an innovative lab called Intellectual Ventures, has been working on a Passive Vaccine Storage Device in hopes of addressing the current cold chain challenges.  Their latest cooler-like design is capable of holding routine vaccinations for more than 200 children for up to 35 days.  Not only will it revolutionize the cold chain supply, but it has the potential to save millions of lives.  This new device, which has been in design for the past four years, has been described as a high-tech version of a coffee thermos.  But according to Wired,  there’s quite a lot more to it.

“… the device needed to be more than just an efficient cooler. It also needed structural integrity (or more specifically, it needed to be able to survive multiple falls off the back of a truck) and high-usability in the field.

The first prototypes fit into the efficient cooler category, keeping the vaccines fresh for up to 90 days, but they weren’t user friendly and made maintenance difficult. The development team decided that they had to sacrifice longevity in order to make the device easier to use. The sixth, and most current, prototype is the best yet. Each cooler-like device holds routine vaccinations for more than 200 children or a village with a population of 6,000. Though the device is created for maximum efficiency, it does have a few cool features: It logs GPS and temperature data, alerts users when temperatures begin to rise too much, and even has a little LED light when you open the lid.

Once stocked with ice (it takes 16 pounds, roughly the equivalent of two bags from 7-11), the vaccines are able to stay fresh for an average of 35 days.

A month might not seem like a long time, but on a continent like Africa (where Global Good does much of its work) a vaccine typically survives only five days before it spoils due to improper storage. This leaves millions of children without life-saving vaccines for preventable diseases. In order for vaccines to stay fresh, they need to be kept between 0-8 degrees Celsius (32-46 degrees Fahrenheit). That’s a hard thing to accomplish in warm, desert-like regions. And even harder if those the places are remote and without electricity. Intellectual Ventures had to figure out how to make a portable, sturdy and, most imperatively, reliable way to keep vaccines at that precise temperature.

For parents living in developed countries, we often take vaccine access for granted and many people are unfamiliar with the challenges of global vaccine distribution.  Nowadays in the U.S., children can get vaccinated at the doctor’s office, health department and sometimes, in the case of older children, even at the local pharmacy.  Yet even in the U.S., some providers still struggle with proper handling and storage of vaccines.

In fact, just last year a report revealed that some vaccine supplies were compromised by insufficient refrigeration.  While the vaccines were not deemed dangerous, there was some question as to whether the vaccines administered would still be effective.  The public response was one of surprise and concern, and the investigation ultimately led to a greater awareness regarding the importance of proper handling and storage.

So, if we can recognize that some providers in the U.S. are still struggling with these storage guidelines, one can imagine how challenging proper refrigeration must be to global vaccination workers.  Today’s revolutionary cooler design is sure to be an enormous asset to the global immunization initiatives we’re currently witnessing all around the world.   With advancements like this one, we hope to see an overall reduction in disease and a significant improvement in global health in the years to come.

  1. July 2, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Wow – that’s excellent news. A great example of the what the grants from the Gates Foundation are accomplishing – new and innovative ideas to enhance the ability to deploy vaccines into remote areas more effectively. This should be huge in both Africa and the Near East.

    Like

  2. dingo199
    July 3, 2013 at 3:58 am

    Great news yes, but ultimately having a vaccine that doesn’t require cooling/refridgeration must be the ultimate goal.

    Like

  3. Christine Vara
    July 3, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    Dingo, Agreed! While there has definitely been some progress in making vaccines that don’t require cooling/refrigeration (such as through a patch) it’s difficult to say when these new methods will be employed. Hopefully these new coolers will help in the meantime. It just fascinates me to see how technology is constantly changing the way in which we are able to administer vaccines.

    Like

  4. July 3, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    @Christine – better technology, universal vaccines, close to eradicating Polio, etc…..hopefully this will continue to be a great decade for vaccine research and deployment.

    Like

  5. novalox
    July 4, 2013 at 2:00 am

    My thinking is that it may help with the goal of eradicating polio, since it would help with the distribution of the injected polio vaccine, which is less riskier than the oral polio vaccine.

    Like

  6. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 8:02 am

    As you go patting yourselves on the back about polio “eradication”, I suggest you read this:

    “It has been reported in the Lancet that the incidence of AFP, especially non-polio AFP has increased exponentially in India after a high potency polio vaccine was introduced (25). Grassly and colleagues suggested, at that time, that the increase in AFP was the result of a deliberate effort to intensify surveillance and reporting in India (26). The National Polio Surveillance Programme maintained that the increased numbers were due to reporting of mild weakness, presumably weakness of little consequence (27). However in 2005, a fifth of the cases of non-polio AFP in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh (UP) were followed up after 60 days. 35.2% were found to have residual paralysis and 8.5% had died (making the total of residual paralysis or death – 43.7%) (28). Sathyamala examined data from the following year and showed that children who were identified with non-polio AFP were at more than twice the risk of dying than those with wild polio infection (27). ”

    http://www.issuesinmedicalethics.org/202co114.html

    The beauty of NPAFP is that it is clinically indistinguishable from wild polio, but deadlier and much more dangerous, thus allowing doctors to immediately classify any case of “polio” as NPAFP and therefore not pursue any investigation of cause, particularly in vaccinated populations. Thus, “eradication” becomes a self-fulfilled prophesy through clinical misdiagnoses (purposeful or not). There were some 40-50,000 cases in India in 2011 alone, all in the vaccinated which is significantly higher than the reported annual cases of polio before the mass vaccination effort (some 8,000 annually).

    Kudo’s all around for another job well done! (sarcasm intended)

    Like

  7. Gray Falcon
    July 9, 2013 at 8:22 am

    Robert, are you going to convince us the World Trade Center is still standing next? If polio were still around, it would be patently obvious.

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  8. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Robert, I see you are employing argument from blatant assertion. Also, you have no place to be sarcastic since you have never put forth any kind of way to prevent children from becoming sick. All you have done is tried to denigrate those who do. Since you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. You should change that.

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  9. Ann
    July 9, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Gray Falcon,
    There have been a lot of articles in Indian newspapers about the many thousands of vaccinated children there getting polio anyway, as well as in the Lancet article Robert cited. The problem is patently obvious to those living in India.

    Like

  10. Gray Falcon
    July 9, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Yes, Ann, the problem is clear. You put a curse on them, didn’t you? Prove me wrong.

    Like

  11. Gray Falcon
    July 9, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    In case you didn’t get my point: I need evidence, not just accusations. Anyone can make an accusation. Without evidence, they’re meaningless.

    Like

  12. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Chris :
    Robert, I see you are employing argument from blatant assertion. Also, you have no place to be sarcastic since you have never put forth any kind of way to prevent children from becoming sick. All you have done is tried to denigrate those who do. Since you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. You should change that.

    You’re assumption is that “preventing” childhood illnesses is “good”, although the results of this effort are, at best, mixed. Your argument that this is an “either you are for us or you are against us” issue is reminiscent of Dubya and his supposed war on terror. Now we all know that as far as it goes, we Americans are ALL part of the problem, as highlighted by NDAA, Prism and various other current policies that target all Americans as enemies of the Government that is supposed to be “Of the People”. It is an invalid argument as it assumes only two possible positions, which is not true. All that follows is nonsense.

    By the way, my argument is not blatant assertion. The Indian Journal of Medical Ethics finds the problem of NPAFP to be blatantly obvious and there are myriad reports in Indian publications about this problem. Perhaps, the vaccine could have been discounted as a cause, but since virtually every child has been vaccinated and every case has been in a vaccinated child, it is simply not possible to rule out the vaccine.

    Like

  13. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Gray Falcon :
    In case you didn’t get my point: I need evidence, not just accusations. Anyone can make an accusation. Without evidence, they’re meaningless.

    And the scientific method for the exploration of evidence is worthless if the hypothesis is created to generate a specific result or if the basis for creating a proper hypothesis, i.e. a statistically significant relationship, is ignored so that the evidence is not actually found. For example, virtually every vaccine states explicitly that they are not tested for carcinogenicity, mutagenicity or genotoxicity. It is then possible for people like you to claim that there is no evidence that they cause mutations, cancer or damage genes. You would be technically correct, but ONLY because no studies exploring these has occurred. I think I stated this before, lack of evidence for something is not evidence against that same something. Even the flu vaccine package insert explicitly states that no studies have shown that receiving the vaccine reduces the risk of contracting flu. But then people like you say that an “imperfect” solution is better than none at all, which was shown to be an invalid argument in the case of pertussis. The pertussis vaccine reduces the severity to the point of possibly not even being severe enough to warrant a doctor’s visit, yet has very little impact on transmission. Thus, a vaccinated individual may believe that he/she is protected from pertussis, when in fact they are a contagious carrier. This false belief puts babies at risk, but people on here don’t seem to really care about that.

    Like

  14. Gray Falcon
    July 9, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Robert, you should stop eating. There’s a risk you will choke to death on food, so not eating at all must be safer.

    Like

  15. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Robert: “You’re assumption is that “preventing” childhood illnesses is “good”, although the results of this effort are, at best, mixed.”

    Citation needed. Do provide that data I have been asking you and Steve Michaels for ages: a PubMed indexed study from a qualified reputable researcher showing a vaccine on the American pediatric schedule causes more harm than the diseases. Just a reminder that ex-police officers do not have the requisite education.

    “The Indian Journal of Medical Ethics finds the problem of NPAFP to be blatantly obvious and there are myriad reports in Indian publications about this problem.”

    Citation needed.

    Also, better maintaining the cold chain would improve all vaccine programs in places with inadequate infrastructures like India. For instance: when my brother was stationed at the US Embassy in New Dehli their house only had water service for a limited time each day. They had a still in their kitchen to purify the water which was contaminated with sewage.

    William Foege writes in his book House on Fire: The Fight to Eradicate Smallpox about the issue with disease eradication in places like India.

    Like

  16. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Bad html, the name of the book is House on Fire: The Fight to Eradicate Smallpox.

    Like

  17. Jason
    July 9, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Chris, please provide a citation that demonstrates that diseases cause more injuries than vaccines.

    Like

  18. Gray Falcon
    July 9, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    Here’s one for you, Jason:
    http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/graph-us-measles-cases

    It’s unlikely sanitation changed significantly in the 1960’s.

    Like

  19. July 9, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    @Jason – not to mention the links already provided that show that Vaccine-Preventable Diseases are responsible for over 1.5mil child deaths per year, representing 17% of the total mortality rate……we would expect to see a much larger number of children suffering from the various adverse reactions to these diseases – including encephalitis, deafness, blindness, SSPE, congenital birth defects, sterility, etc.

    So, care to provide any sort of citation that shows that vaccine adverse reactions happen at a rate even close (because they don’t, not by several orders of magnitude).

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

    Like

  20. Chris
  21. Jason
    July 9, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    I am sorry Gray Falcon, Lawrence and Chris. None of the information you have provided proves that diseases are more harmful than vaccines.

    Like

  22. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    Then, Jason, you need to provide the PubMed indexed studies from a qualified reputable researcher that show vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases. Or work on your reading comprehension.

    Like

  23. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    Chris :
    Robert: “You’re assumption is that “preventing” childhood illnesses is “good”, although the results of this effort are, at best, mixed.”
    Citation needed. Do provide that data I have been asking you and Steve Michaels for ages: a PubMed indexed study from a qualified reputable researcher showing a vaccine on the American pediatric schedule causes more harm than the diseases. Just a reminder that ex-police officers do not have the requisite education.
    “The Indian Journal of Medical Ethics finds the problem of NPAFP to be blatantly obvious and there are myriad reports in Indian publications about this problem.”
    Citation needed.
    Also, better maintaining the cold chain would improve all vaccine programs in places with inadequate infrastructures like India. For instance: when my brother was stationed at the US Embassy in New Dehli their house only had water service for a limited time each day. They had a still in their kitchen to purify the water which was contaminated with sewage.
    William Foege writes in his book House on Fire: The Fight to Eradicate Smallpox about the issue with disease eradication in places like India.

    Are you REALLY asking for a citation while citing my citation? You really beggar belief! Your “requirement” for Pubmed citations has already been addressed, or are you smoking dope and suffering from short term memory loss? And thank you for pointing out that a substantial problem with disease treatment, outcome and elimination actually lies with sanitation and access to clean water and NOT vaccination status.

    And no, sanitation was already taken into account in the 60’s since mortality rates had ALREADY dropped BEFORE vaccination programs started. However, as with NPAFP type renaming of disease, doctors were not going to diagnose “measles” in vaccinated individuals so they were instead diagnosed with eczematic or other allegenic reactions instead of measles even though clinical symptoms were the same, not unlike our poor dead man in Wales who was vaccinated and therefore assumed to be something other than measles by the medical establishment.

    Like

  24. Robert
    July 9, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    Don’t worry there Jason. Chris is a stalwort for proclaiming super human abilities in assessing the veracity of sources. Mind you, she is only trained as an engineer and really has no qualification for any of her claims and no obvious understanding of how the world works with regard to following the money to determine whether there are conflicts in her own sources of information. In other words, she may be a regular commenter, but her comments are pretty useless to adult discussion of adult issues.

    Like

  25. Jason
    July 9, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    Then, Chris, you need to provide the PubMed indexed studies from a qualified reputable researcher that show diseases are more dangerous than the vaccines.

    Like

  26. Jason
    July 9, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    Hi Robert, just pointing out to Chris that her request, ” a PubMed indexed study from a qualified reputable researcher showing a vaccine on the American pediatric schedule causes more harm than the diseases.” is ridiculous!

    Like

  27. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    Jason, just pick up a history book. I would suggest Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. Otherwise stop trolling.

    Robert, your criticism of scientific evidence is not valid. Just by posting websites from dubious characters makes everything you say a joke.

    Like

  28. July 9, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    @Jason – your lack of understanding is ridiculous as well…..too funny.

    Like

  29. July 9, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    @Chris – next thing Robert will post up is how FEMA is coming to throw all of us into Concentration Camps on the orders of the NWO & Illuminati….because that is just as plausible as what he has posted thus far.

    Like

  30. Jason
    July 9, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    Lawrence, prove it? Please prove it. Giving me all sorts of information about people catching diseases etc….does not prove that diseases cause more harm than vaccines.

    You need to go back to school, Boy.

    Like

  31. July 9, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    @Jason – please provide your “proof” that vaccines kill more than 1.5mil children each year.

    Then we’ll talk.

    Like

  32. Jason
    July 9, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    Lawrence, that is comparing apples to oranges. Is that 1.5mil in the US? You better be prepared to show disease injury in the US vs Vaccine injury in the US.

    Like

  33. novalox
    July 9, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    @jason

    You made the assertion, you provide the evidence/

    Within 3 posts, provide evidence for your assertions, or we can all assume that you are lying and are here just to troll.

    Like

  34. Jason
    July 9, 2013 at 9:00 pm

    No I didn’t…Chris did. Have her post it please and if she can’t, then you should.

    Like

  35. Gray Falcon
    July 9, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    Jason, if you were on trial for murder, and there were over a dozen eyewitnesses who knew you were in a different state at the time, how would you feel if the prosecution refused to listen to any of them? We posted all the evidence, dismissing it out of hand is grossly dishonest.

    Like

  36. Jason
    July 9, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Gray Falcon…your history of vaccines, does not prove that diseases are worse than vaccines. I guess you don’t comprehend the question. I am sorry.

    Like

  37. Chris
    July 9, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    Jason, I will no longer communicate with you because you are a troll, more than likely a sock puppet of Joe. You have been given plenty of information and are just refusing to even read it. You are just sitting on your little toad stool with your ears covered going “LA LA LA I can’t hear you!”

    Like

  38. Jason
    July 9, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    Again Lawrence, where is the proof?? You don’t seem top have any??

    Like

  39. Jason
    July 9, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    Chris, you have NOT provided any study proving to me that diseases are worse than vaccines. Not one single study or citation. So please feel free to move on since you don’t have anything.

    Like

  40. Gray Falcon
    July 9, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    Jason :
    Again Lawrence, where is the proof?? You don’t seem top have any??

    Everyone else here can see entry number #36. My parents lived when polio was a scourge. Nobody respects you, nobody loves you, and nobody will remember you.

    Like

  41. novalox
    July 9, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    @jason

    Strike 1,2 and 3 yer out.

    We can all assume that you are just here to troll, and that all your comments are assumed to be lies unless you have any actual proof for your assertions.

    And again, thanks for admitting that you have no proof supporting your views, you forfeit the argument, and that Chris, Gray Falcon and Lawrence are correct.

    Again, credible proof for your assertions, since you were the one to have made them. It’s not our responsibility to prove your assertions, it’s yours.

    Like

  42. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 12:52 am

    Gray Falcon, entry #36 is not proof of anything. I think you have struck out by now.

    Like

  43. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 12:54 am

    Thank you for the good laugh novalox. I enjoy good humor. Take yourself seriously do you? I can’t, I think you are a little bit out there.

    Like

  44. dingo199
    July 10, 2013 at 4:05 am

    I thought Robert was a pretty noxious troll, but Jason really takes the biscuit. At least Robert has some brain cells to rub together, unlike Jason who, when provided with proof that the diseases are more serious than any vaccine complication, merely parrots his meaningless mantra of “Proof, I see no proof!!”

    Jason, tip for ya – try reading some stuff. Try thinking.
    Or if Youtube is the height of your research capabilities, try a search for “meningococcal meningitis”, or “tetanus”, or “smallpox”, or anything else you fancy.

    Like

  45. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    Is that right dingo199? Please direct me to the citation that best demonstrates your proof that diseases are more harmful than vaccines and I will be sure to read it more thoroughly this time.

    Like

  46. Lawrence
    July 10, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    @Jason – nice comparison of HepB

    http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/b/bFAQ.htm#

    Like

  47. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Lawrence, that’s great, please explain to me how this information demonstrates that diseases are more harmful than vaccines?

    Like

  48. Lawrence
    July 10, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    @jason – you really are dense aren’t you….or most likely just trolling for the sake of trolling.

    So, no serious adverse reactions to the HepB vaccine vs. hundreds of thousands of HepB infections and tens of thousands of deaths from HepB-related complications……

    And your question was again?

    Like

  49. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Jason, listen closely to yourself. Do you understand what you are asking? You seem to think your question is equivalent to “Are vaccines completely without risk?”. That is not what you are asking, and that is not a question worth answering. Breathing is not without risk, one cannot eliminate risk completely, one can only keep it at a manageable level.

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  50. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    Lawrence, does attacking me make you feel good?
    The bottom line is you have no proof. You can throw out numbers of how many people have diseases etc., and it does not prove that diseases are more harmful than vaccines. How harmful are those diseases? How do we define what is harmful? How many people had Polio at one time and yet had no symptoms? How many vaccine injuries are there? What do we define as an injury? How many people have chronic illness, auto immune diseases, allergies, ADHD, autism, etc. because of vaccines?

    Like

  51. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Jason, here how “diseases are more harmful than vaccines” is determined: How many people die or have permanent side effects from the disease? How many do so from the vaccine? Which is greater? If you can’t understand kindergarten mathematics, you have no business discussing medicine.

    Like

  52. Lawrence
    July 10, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    @jason – so, just trolling then.

    Using mortality only, thousands of people die every year from HepB-complications. No one dies of the HepB vaccine….is that clear enough for you?

    And I’m not “throwing out numbers” as those are verified statistics from the CDC (per the link provided).

    So, care to provide any proof of your own?

    Like

  53. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Gray, you have no idea how many people die or have permanent side effects or other illnesses caused from vaccines so how do you determine which one is greater?

    I guess we could be specific and compare one disease/vaccine at a time. How about taking 1000 kids and giving them the pertussis vaccine, and see what happens, and then also follow what happens to 1000 kids with whooping cough? There are many other factors and variables to consider but it would be interesting if it could be done. But it can’t, so I would rather take a chance with whooping cough, then take a chance for my long term health with the pertussis vaccine.

    Like

  54. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Actually, we do. If more people were dying from vaccines than diseases, we’d know by the stench of all the bodies because we would have nowhere to bury the dead.

    Like

  55. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Great Lawrence, now please factor in the chances of my 6 month old getting Hep B. She doesn’t currently have Hep B, so she won’t be dying from it. If I get her the Hep B vaccine, it could cause immediate injury or hurt her future health. I guess you are forgetting that there are many variables, so this is not so easy to prove now is it?

    Like

  56. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Jason, do people suddenly stop bleeding when around six-month children? Hep B isn’t just an STD.

    Like

  57. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Gray…who said death? I thought we were talking about injuries and harm to health? There is a stretch of people with auto immune diseases that some say were contributed from vaccines.

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  58. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Jason, do you know what an iron lung is?

    Like

  59. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    You are missing the point Gray…this is not a discussion about Hep B.

    Like

  60. Lawrence
    July 10, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    @jason – so no proof or evidence on your end?

    Okay…..bye bye troll. Done with you.

    Like

  61. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    Jason :
    You are missing the point Gray…this is not a discussion about Hep B.

    You brought up Hep B. If you can’t remember what you typed five minutes ago, you probably have a serious mental issue.

    Like

  62. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    There aren’t any iron lungs around any more.

    And your point is?

    Like

  63. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Gray….Lawrence brought up Hep B.

    Like

  64. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    Lawrence, what? Can’t handle having this discussion?

    Like

  65. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    My point is that the polio vaccine is responsible for that. Measles and whooping cough can also cause long-term side effects:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1289888/

    Like

  66. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    Gray, so the Polio vaccine is responsible for no more iron lungs? Measles and whooping cough can have long term negative side effects? Ok, so how does that prove that the diseases are more harmful than vaccines? It doesn’t.

    Like

  67. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    Jason, in terms of intelligence, you are the equivalent of a journalist who dedicates long hours and resources into learning the identities of the Fantastic Four.

    Like

  68. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    Not sure why you keep attacking me, but I guess that is your problem.

    Like

  69. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Because if someone believed you, they could cause people serious harm. Diseases are far more dangerous than vaccines. We have given you all the evidence, and you choose to ignore it. You are essentially saying, “Just because you have utterly and definitively proven that vaccines are safer than diseases does not mean you have proven vaccines safer than diseases.” You actively admit that diseases cause real harm, and in great quantities, yet you feel no remorse for exposing people to them. You cannot claim we did not prove anything without being grossly dishonest or profoundly ignorant.

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  70. Bill Jones
    July 10, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Chris,
    The Diamond book you cited, Guns, Germs, and Steel, shows how people whose immune systems have never coped with common contagious diseases were wiped out by the millions when those germs were introduced from the Old World. He shows that there were no contagious diseases in the New World until the conquistadores, except probably syphilis in Hispaniola. People who had grown up with measles, mumps, chickenpox, pertussis, etc., were highly resistant to them. And in the Old World, centuries of exposure had provided everyone with non-specific immune defense mechanisms favoring their recovery from the diseases.

    Like

  71. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Gray, because you disagree with me, that you cannot prove that diseases are more harmful than vaccines, you feel the need to attack me? That says much more about you then it does me. I admit that diseases do cause harm, injury and death, and I also believe that vaccines do the same. The point of the conversation was to prove which one caused more. You have not proven to me that diseases are worse than vaccines. You have only provided information about injuries and death from diseases which proves nothing. I hope you feel better soon Gray.

    Like

  72. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Jason, we also provided you with information on what harm was caused by vaccines, that is to say, very little. How many people have been put in the iron lung by the polio vaccine? How many people died from encephalitis from the measles vaccine? The CDC has asked these questions, and the sources we gave you have those answers. We have no evidence that autoimmune disorders are caused by vaccines, and it’s very unlikely, seeing as a typical vaccine is less than a tenth of a percent of what one gets exposed to from a typical paper cut.

    We “attacked” you because you refuse to see the evidence before your own eyes, and choose to expose your own children to harm needlessly.

    Like

  73. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Hope you feel better soon Gray Falcon, I really do.

    Like

  74. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    I accept your unconditional surrender, Jason. Learn this: You are not the only who has the right to feel anger.

    Like

  75. Chris
    July 10, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    Mr. Jones, and that little bit if information shows the diseases are safer than the vaccines how?

    Like

  76. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    The way I read Mr. Jones, I could’ve sworn he was agreeing that vaccination was necessary, given the awful consequences of not having immunity.

    Like

  77. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    Gray….I am not angry, nor am I attacking anybody. I get it, you are angry and fearful of what you don’t understand.

    Like

  78. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    Jason, I understand perfectly well. If you had bothered to read #36, you would have seen the proof you demanded. Do not think I act out of ignorance. You are a man who cares not for the lives of others, do not expect mercy, and forget you ever learned the word “hope”.

    Like

  79. Chris
    July 10, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    I guess that is true. But I don’t know why he is explaining it to me, I read the book. Plus the book that Diamond got much of the information, McNeill’s Plagues and Peoples. In that book it was explained that since smallpox, measles and other diseases were so common in Europe that it was kids who got the diseases, and the survivors were immune. But there often many many burials of children (why our family genealogy has a few families of twelve kids has several with the same name, only a few managed to hit adulthood).

    The issue with the native peoples was not so much they had less probability of surviving, it is that it hit all age groups. And when it is the adults who provide the food and protection for the community that get sick, most of the deaths were actually starvation.

    All one has to do is read just a little history to learn how diseases were devastating, sometimes to entire families. There is a cemetery not far from here where there are graves where the headstone lists the family’s children, all dying within a few weeks of each other (an early 20th diphtheria epidemic, a few years before the story of Balto and the Iditorod dog sled race). Diphtheria is why only eleven of the children in the book Cheaper by the Dozen became adults (and there had been more than a dozen pregnancies). Measles is why Roald Dahl has a memorial dedication if his book The BFG. Rubella is the reason for the book Deaf Like Me.

    I could go on and on. But it is obvious Jason would never read anything associated with reality. He cannot even understand a table showing incidence and deaths from the diseases.

    Like

  80. Bill
  81. Bill
    July 10, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Gray,
    I think it’s better for kids to get the diseases when they are children, to build true herd immunity and make their immune systems work better. Vaccine immunity just isn’t as good as true immunity, which is often lifelong.

    Like

  82. Bill
    July 10, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    And Gray, what kind of parent with hep-B would rub his infected blood into an open cut or mucous membrane of his baby, the only way the baby could catch it from him?

    Like

  83. Lawrence
    July 10, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    @bill – info wars is not a legitimate news source (or a source for anything resembling reality)

    Any real sources for your claims?

    Like

  84. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    Bill :
    Gray,
    I think it’s better for kids to get the diseases when they are children, to build true herd immunity and make their immune systems work better. Vaccine immunity just isn’t as good as true immunity, which is often lifelong.

    Getting the disease can also provide permanent immunity to all diseases. It’s called death. It worked for Roald Dahl’s child.

    And Gray, what kind of parent with hep-B would rub his infected blood into an open cut or mucous membrane of his baby, the only way the baby could catch it from him?

    Are you saying you don’t bleed? That would explain a lot, only a demon could have your attitude.

    Like

  85. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    Gray, I do care for others, otherwise we would not be having this conversation. Mercy? Sorry to burst your ego, but you are not threatening to me in the slightest. And please, keep attacking me if it will make you feel better. I actually feel a little bit sorry for you as in you mean well, but can’t follow along very well. Example, #36 does not prove what you claim it does.

    Like

  86. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    Gray….attacking Bill now too? You should consider talking to somebody about your issues. It would make you feel better and maybe you can let go of some of that anger and fear.

    Like

  87. dingo199
    July 10, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    I’m wondering how the drongo even has the ability to switch on his laptop, never mind type sentences (even if they don’t make any sense).

    Reprise:
    Troll:

    Prove that the diseases are more harmful than their vaccines.

    Gallery:

    OK….Here, here, here, here, here and here…Proof, and more proof.

    Troll:

    that’s great, please explain to me how this information demonstrates that diseases are more harmful than vaccines?

    Head….desk.

    Like

  88. Lawrence
    July 10, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    Back to the topic at hand – enhancements to technology allowing specialists in the field to get vaccines to the most vulnerable populations (and help with disease eradication efforts) continue to help propel us forward.

    Like

  89. dingo199
    July 10, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Bill :
    Gray,
    I think it’s better for kids to get the diseases when they are children, to build true herd immunity and make their immune systems work better. Vaccine immunity just isn’t as good as true immunity, which is often lifelong.

    Epic topic logic fail:
    1. It is not better to get diseases if they kill or maim you in the process
    2. Herd immunity by definition is important in preventing infection in a proportion of the population. But if the idea is that everyone must get infected, herd immunity is irrelevant.
    3. Vaccine immunity is lifelong for some diseases, for those in whom it isn’t a booster can be given – no problem there.
    4. Natural diseases do not confer lifelong immunity in many cases- pertussis is one (5-15 years) for example. And tetanus doesn’t induce any protective immunity at all. If you are lucky enough, you can get it every month for the rest of your life (doubt you’d survive the first attack though…)

    Like

  90. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    dingo199….nice Aussie slang!

    Like

  91. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    dingo, why don’t you give me the numbers of all of the people injured and harmed by vaccines?

    Like

  92. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    1. It is not better to get vaccines if they kill or maim you in the process

    Like

  93. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    2. Herd immunity by definition is important in preventing infection in a proportion of the population. But if the idea is that everyone must get infected, herd immunity is irrelevant.

    Not true….Mother’s used to pass on immunity to their children.

    Like

  94. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    3. Vaccine immunity is lifelong for some diseases, for those in whom it isn’t a booster can be given – no problem there.

    Or a booster every year or every month!

    Like

  95. Jason
    July 10, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    4. Natural diseases do not confer lifelong immunity in many cases- pertussis is one (5-15 years) for example. And tetanus doesn’t induce any protective immunity at all. If you are lucky enough, you can get it every month for the rest of your life (doubt you’d survive the first attack though…)

    May not be life long is some cases, but much better then what vaccines provide.

    Like

  96. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    Six posts in a row, not one shred of evidence. I can practically taste Jason’s tears of desparation. Or maybe that’s my beer brats.

    Like

  97. dingo199
    July 10, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    Jason :
    dingo, why don’t you give me the numbers of all of the people injured and harmed by vaccines?

    Sure.
    +614567383
    That’s a girl in Brisbane who felt faint after her HPV vax.
    +613751224
    That’s a kid in Sydney who felt feverish after his MMR.
    Can’t think of anyone else.

    Like

  98. Gray Falcon
    July 10, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    It’s pretty obvious Jason thought we wouldn’t be able to answer his question, especially not within a few minutes of his asking. Why else would he be upset for us providing information on how dangerous diseases are when he asks us to prove how dangerous diseases are.

    Like

  99. novalox
    July 10, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    @jason

    Again thank you for admitting that you have no argument, no evidence to back up your assertions, and that the regular posters here are right and you are utterly wrong.

    Also, I thank you for admitting that you do not take the topic seriously at all and that you are here just to troll.

    Again, why should we believe a proven liar like you if you will not supply any evidence supporting your views?

    Like

  100. Jason
    July 11, 2013 at 1:02 am

    I do appreciate humor dingo, but it is a shame you can’t answer the question and therefore cannot prove that diseases cause more harm than vaccines.

    Like

  101. Chris
    July 11, 2013 at 2:04 am

    Yawn. Boring troll, is well, frankly boring. Though the only question is how the troll even manages to post on the Internets.

    Like

  102. dingo199
    July 11, 2013 at 4:56 am

    OK Jason, I know troll-feeding is rather frowned upon, for obvious reasons, but let me give this one last try.

    I’ll take an example of one disease, rotavirus gastroenteritis. Now globally this causes nearly half a million deaths each year in infants.
    http://www.who.int/immunization_monitoring/burden/rotavirus_estimates/en/

    Now those deaths won’t concern you I know, so let’s get closer to home (yours, anyhow). In the US, Rotavirus caused between 55,000 to 70,000 hospitalizations and 20-60 deaths in children under 5 years of age annually. (Well that was before the vaccine was introduced, that is. Now over 95% of kids get the vaccine, and rotavirus gastroenteritis is exceedingly rare). So as to its benefits, which are pretty clear, it prevents tens of thousands of hospitalizations and prevents dozens of deaths, in the US, each and every year.

    So what “harms” does the vaccine cause? Well none of any significance or definite harm, really. There was only one problem that seemed to be linked to the vaccine, since when it was first introduced it was noted that there was a minor uptick in reported cases of a very rare bowel problem (intussusception), and this was thought to be linked to the vaccine. This is a bowel problem that kids sometimes get, whatever. (It is biologically plausible that rotavirus vaccine might affect the bowel in some way, since it is a live virus vaccine, so it can affect the gut. But the complications of the natural disease don’t just consist of intussusception, but dehydration and death).

    Some more detail is given here:
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/rotavsb.html

    However, when prospective studies were carried out (so they were not merely relying on adverse reporting incidents) they found no significant rise in the instances of the problem against the normal background incidence in those who do not get the vaccine. The problem is quite rare; as you can see out of nearly 800,000 vaccine doses there were 21 cases of intussusception in the month following the vaccine, but the expected incidence was 20.9 in those who were unvaccinated.
    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1104957

    Conclusion Among US infants aged 4 to 34 weeks who received RV5, the risk of intussusception was not increased compared with infants who did not receive the rotavirus vaccine.

    Now, knowing you I expect your response to be “so where is the proof the disease is worse than the vaccine”. I suppose you may find some citations that give slightly variant estimates for intussusception with the vaccine, or talk about some other insignificant issue. If that is your response it will be clear that you are ignoring the bottom line of what is quite obvious to anyone with more than 2 neurons to rub together, namely that the vaccine appears to be very safe, with only minimal concerns about any possible harms, yet the disease is a significant one, which killed and hospitalized tens of thousands of kids each year in the US, and caused nasty diarrhea in millions more. (You see it is only those with severe illness who are hospitalized (55-70,000 each year) but millions more would get diarrhea since the virus used to be the commonest cause of infant gastroenteritis and was thought to be responsible for as many as 3 or 4 episodes within each child’s infancy).

    So, a simple question:
    Do you think the vaccine causes more harm than the disease?
    Answer either “Yes” or “No” and then we can all see what your comprehension is like, how good you are at weighing up evidence, and looking at risk-benefit.

    Like

  103. July 11, 2013 at 9:07 am

    @dingo – time to ignore Jason. He’s just going to say that you are “throwing out numbers” and that isn’t proof of anything…..

    I’ll laugh if he answers the question & uses circular logic (I get the feeling that he believes that since no one in the US gets Polio anymore – because of the vaccine, that if even one person suffers a reaction to the vaccine, no matter how slight, it is proof that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease, and because no one gets Polio here anymore).

    Like

  104. novalox
    July 11, 2013 at 10:24 am

    @jason

    Thanks for admitting that dingo is correct and you are lying again.

    Like

  105. Chris
    July 11, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    As an amusing aside, some apt artwork of Jason and his friends:
    http://www.gocomics.com/pibgorn/2013/07/11

    Like

  106. Dusty
    July 12, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Can a website actually accumulate dust? If one could, I’d nominate Vaccinate Your Baby.org as perhaps the web’s dustiest.

    Which brings us to Every Child By Two, the pharma front group that bankrolled the Vaccinate Your Baby campaign. If the VYB website looks dusty, Every Child By Two’s website looks like it was designed by a 10 year-old in 1994. If you click to the “news” section of the website, their last newsletter was issued in August, 2008, more than four years ago.

    Like

  107. Dusty
    July 12, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    I thought I would add some humor as well.

    Like

  108. Chris
    July 12, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    Obvious sock puppets are obvious.

    They have no solutions to disease in countries with limited infrastructure to maintain the cold chain, so they are part of the problem. They also do not care about children in those countries, hence the pointless, old, and boring “Pharma Shill Gambit.”

    Like

  109. Gray Falcon
    July 12, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    By the way, “Jared”, those cartoons? Not funny. And the reason Every Child by Two (which has drop-down menus, something nobody in 1994 would have considered putting in a webpage, certainly not a ten-year-old) hasn’t issued a new newsletter in four years is twofold:
    1) Newsletters are outdated, thanks to the web.
    2) You haven’t come up with any new arguments since 2004. It gets repetitive after a while.

    Like

  110. October 15, 2013 at 3:10 am

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    Like

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