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Our Nation’s Immune System is Electronic

This guest post has been written by Jessica Orwig of Scientific Technologies Corporation to highlight the importance of Immunization Information Systems

When our body is infected with a virus or bacterium, our immune system will identify, target and often prevent the invading organism from flourishing and making us ill. While our biological immune system fights off infections to keep us healthy, our nation is also defending against disease outbreaks and keeping us as a population protected. Our nation’s immune system, however, is not biologic, it is electronic and it has a name: Immunization Information System (IIS).

Like arteries that carry disease-fighting cells throughout our bodies, a series of electronic networks in each state feeds information into their IIS.  Each state has its own privacy-protected IIS, which includes names, locations and vaccine history for most of the state’s population. Two primary healthcare groups have access to and use this information in different ways to build and maintain healthy populations: state health departments and healthcare providers, like physicians.

In our bodies, neutrophils are a type of white blood cell that consume and render harmless foreign viruses, bacteria and parasitic cells. State health departments respond in an analogous way. Using their electronic IIS, they track vaccination coverage throughout their state to check for regions with low immunization coverage. Vaccine-preventable diseases like measles and whooping cough can be highly contagious. To protect a population by preventing an epidemic, a certain percentage of that population needs to be vaccinated against these diseases. The percentage varies for each type of disease but on average is between 70 to 90 percent.

For regions of the state that have dangerously low immunization rates, the state health department will usually work with local healthcare practitioners and physicians in that region to increase the uptake of vaccines, thereby protecting more of the population and reducing the risk of a disease outbreak. Physicians may lengthen their office hours, healthcare facilities may offer free or low-cost vaccines, and the state and local health departments may assist with supporting temporary immunization stations at various community locations such as grocery stores and malls.

Neutrophils can only target viruses, bacteria and parasitic cells that the body’s antibodies mark as a threat. Without antibodies, neutrophils would not know what to attack. Similarly, state health departments are only capable of protecting a population if they have enough of the right information regarding the immunization status of the members of that population. That’s where healthcare providers come in. Like antibodies, local healthcare providers record their patients’ immunization status by using Electronic Health Records. These office-based systems exchange patient immunization information with the state’s IIS. That information helps state health departments know what regions need extra attention in vaccine outreach efforts.

In addition to protecting populations against disease outbreaks, IISs also reduce the frequency of “over immunization” – occasions where individuals are vaccinated unnecessarily because they have previously received the right number of immunizations for a particular disease. Reducing the frequency of “over-immunization” saves consumers’ money and preserves vhurricane-katrina-evacuees-houston-astrodomejpg-893af1444d45c57baccines for others who truly need them.

One notable example follows when Hurricane Katrina made landfall in September 2005. The Louisiana Immunization Network for Kids (LINKS) facilitated access to over 18,900 of its immunization records by linking to the Houston-Harris County (Texas) Immunization Registry. As a result, thousands of displaced children, whose families evacuated the Louisiana, avoided needless duplicate immunizations because their immunization records could be accessed by healthcare authorities. This saved an estimated $1.6 million in vaccines and a total of $3.04 million in vaccines plus administration fees. It also allowed Texas healthcare personnel to correctly administer the proper immunizations to persons in need.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) began offering planning grants to develop state IISs in the early ‘90s – today, 49 states use an IIS. One of CDC’s main goals for IISs is to increase the percentage of the nation’s children, younger than six years old, whose immunizhourglassv5ation records exist in an IIS to 95% by 2020. As of 2011, 84 percent of U.S. children younger than six years had immunization records in a state IIS, a two-percent increase from the previous year.

Historically, one drawback of IISs is that individuals cannot access it to retrieve their personal immunization history, the main obstacle being privacy concerns. Consumers must routinely contact their physician, or in a few states their health department, to retrieve it for them. The next generation of healthcare technology is focusing on empowering consumers by offering them methods to access their immunization records, eliminating the middle-man.

The federal Blue Button initiative is one recent example of the next-generation consumer health technology. Several federal agencies, led by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, have implemented this system. Originally conceived as a way for veterans to electronically access parts of their medical records from a secure website, the Blue Button initiative has expanded to include all U.S. residents. By mid-2013, an estimated 26 million people will have access to Blue Button systems, affording them rapid access to their personal medical records.

STC’s healthcare information technology tools add additional features to IISs that help healthcare professionals. Currently, STC’s IIS serves 7 state health departments, 77 thousand providers and 25 million patients.

Behind it all are health information technology firms, like Scientific Technologies Corporation (STC), that design and implement IISs across the nation. STC is the nation’s leading public health-oriented information technology firm. Compared to comparable firms, STC has provided services to more states, supported more IISs for longer and created more new functionality within its applications. Presently, 20% of the nation’s state health departments use STC’s IIS technology.

MapSTC is also leading the way to provide consumers with a simple Internet-based application – called MyIR.net™ which provides electronic copies of immunization records from the state’s IIS. STC IIS applications are used on a daily basis around the nation, protecting millions of individuals and ensuring that entire populations remain free of the potentially devastating effects of vaccine-preventable disease.

  1. pbuniger
    June 20, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Reblogged this on iAMSTEM HUB . UC DAVIS.

    Like

  2. reissd
    June 20, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    Thank you for a fascinating post. I have three questions. The first is whether you can link to the CDC’s requirements for the IIS grants? I’m curious to see what are the common minimal requirements. The second is that this seems doctor-dependent for information (and I’m not sure there is a way around that) – what do states have in place to account for the parents that use alternative medicine and not traditional medicine, as we know some unvaccinating parents do? And finally, is there a mechanism for cross-state transfer of information, when people move, or is that dependent on the patient? Thank you again.

    Like

  3. everychildbytwo
    June 21, 2013 at 11:58 am

    @reissd – your questions are being considered…with regard to cross-state transfer of records, states must have legal agreements in place in order to share data cross-state, several which have them in place.

    Like

  4. reissd
    June 21, 2013 at 11:58 am

    Thank you.

    Like

  5. Jessica
    June 21, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    @reissd – Below is a response from one of STC’s public health professionals. I hope this answers your questions. She was not sure what you meant by “the CC’s requirements for the IIS grants” and therefore did not answer that portion.

    In regards to this system being doctor dependent, they are correct. The providers (primary care physicians, pharmacists, community health centers etc…) enter the data into the IIS, so it is entirely provider driven. The providers also have the ability to note if a patient has refused to receive a vaccine and the refusal reason. These accepted reasons and vaccination laws differ between states.

    Like

  6. Robert
    June 27, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    It is amazing how far this blog site has disintegrated! Almost all of the “comments” are from spammers hoping to drum up trade for insurance, graphic design and whatever else. What a joke this has become! Not worth the time to comment anymore since it isn’t taken seriously by anyone now!

    Like

  7. Robert
    June 28, 2013 at 1:23 am

    Lawrence :
    I’m sure Christine will take care of it.
    People come for the articles anyways….

    Who? The 200 subscribers in how many years? Give me a break! If there is anything we have learned from this abject failure of a site, it is that hypocrisy and false arguments in support of the indefensible pro vac position do not inspire support from anyone but the hard core zealots.

    The only time I see this site referenced, it is in ridicule as to how silly and obvious an industry mouthpiece it is while masquerading as “impartial”…all the while, being funded by, and sharing officers with, pharma millionaires. It is really quite sad because it had so much potential to really open up honest debate.

    Like

  8. novalox
    June 28, 2013 at 1:37 am

    @robert

    Ah, the old pharma shill gambit again, a sure sign that you have no rational argument.

    So, I guess we don’t have to take your silly little rant seriously.

    Like

  9. Robert
    June 28, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    novalox :
    @robert
    Ah, the old pharma shill gambit again, a sure sign that you have no rational argument.
    So, I guess we don’t have to take your silly little rant seriously.

    Not to argue the point again (as it has been brought up in multiple threads), but this site is a spin off of ECBT, which names Amy Pisani as Executive Director and is also co-editor on this site. On ECBT, other members include Paul Offit, who is a vaccine millionaire and sits in a Chair at CHoP which is funded to the tune of $1.5 Million per year by Merck.

    In the ECBT policy on funding acceptance, it states, “Transparency and Full Disclosure
    ECBT will document all activities supported by external partner contributions to its
    members and the public as appropriate.”

    Well either they receive no funding or they have decided that it is not appropriate to divulge this information since no funding sources are listed on the website and when CBS news asked them about funding, they admitted industry funding but refused to say how much or from whom. So much for transparency…

    Your canned response is a perfect example of why this site has slid so far… You and your fellow commenters, as well as the authors, actually appear quite on the fringe now.

    Like

  10. dingo199
    June 28, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Robert, do you have any concept about endowed chairs at University/Research institutions?
    Clearly not.

    FYI, the money that is endowed to University of Pennsylvania is so that CHOP and Penn can help fund Offit’s research studies without having to be beholden to any particular source of direct income or pharmaceutical company. Merck have zero control over what happens to the money, and the choice of what research to do is entirely independent.
    Or perhaps you would prefer his work to be tied to direct funding??

    Like

  11. June 28, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    @dingo – not to mention that Dr. Offit has donated the proceeds of many of his endeavors to legitimate autism and other pediatric research……

    Like

  12. novalox
    June 28, 2013 at 8:55 pm

    @robert

    Of course, your continued parroting of anti-vax lies and pharma shill gambits, as well as using the tactic of 6-600-6000 degrees of separation lunacy, is a perfect example of how far off of reality and actual evidence that the anti-vax side has to go in order to try to denigrate someone.

    At least people can see your comments as how silly they really are. And I do get a good laugh at your inanity, FWIW.

    Like

  13. Chris
    June 28, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    Excuse me, but what does Dr. Offit have to do with tracking vaccines electronically (or more accurately with an integrated information system)?

    By the way, I heard about this website that tracks reported outbreaks of disease on the “This Week in Virology” podcast:
    http://www.cfr.org/interactives/GH_Vaccine_Map/index.html#map

    It is not perfect, since some of the circles do not really relate to outbreak size, and there is lots of missing information. It is crowd sourced using news reports. But it is interesting as outbreaks we want to avoid!

    Like

  14. Robert
    June 29, 2013 at 3:06 am

    dingo199 :
    Robert, do you have any concept about endowed chairs at University/Research institutions?
    Clearly not.
    FYI, the money that is endowed to University of Pennsylvania is so that CHOP and Penn can help fund Offit’s research studies without having to be beholden to any particular source of direct income or pharmaceutical company. Merck have zero control over what happens to the money, and the choice of what research to do is entirely independent.
    Or perhaps you would prefer his work to be tied to direct funding??

    Thank you for your candor, even though your logic basically defies logic and reason. So Merck gives the money to Penn who gives it to CHoP. No, Merck may not have “control” in the direct sense to what happens to that money, but if you think Merck would continue to provide that money if the research undermined Merck’s (and the industry generally) desired outcomes, do you honestly think Merck would still pony up?

    So, CHoP comes out with a study which shows that the MMR vaccine mumps portion was nothing near the efficacy of Merck’s own studies (which are the subject of a civil action for fraud), and vaccine sales plummet as the public outcry against Merck grows. So Merck says, “I know, we’ve just lost alot of money and credibility from that research we funded indirectly through Penn to CHoP, LET’S GIVE ‘EM SOME MORE!!”

    You live in a dream world if you think ANY company, pharma or any other industry, would actively promote it’s own demise. They fund because it supports them. If they stop playing ball, the gravy train ends and they know it.

    And Chris, it really goes without saying that these surveillance systems are nothing more than an extension of the police state which so obviously exists now. There have been so many outbreaks in highly vaccinated populations now (mumps, measles, chicken pox, pertussis) to show that keeping track of a failed program does not make that program a success. It is nothing but distraction.

    Like

  15. June 29, 2013 at 7:34 am

    @Robert – some real evidence or actual citations to prove anything you say would be nice….got any?

    Where are all these “outbreaks” in highly vaccinated populations? Because I’m seeing a bunch of outbreaks in very under-vaccinated populations…..

    Like

  16. Chris
    June 29, 2013 at 10:48 am

    Wow, Robert seems a bit paranoid. Well, of course, he has the option of not living in the “police state” by moving away from the USA. Perhaps he would love the libertarian paradise known as Somalia, no government or police there!

    Like

  17. novalox
    June 29, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    @robert

    [citation needed] for your assertions within 3 posts, or we can assume that you are making things up.

    Like

  18. Robert
    June 30, 2013 at 2:43 am

    Not to belabor the obvious, but the recent “outbreak” in Wales was in a population of with 97% vaccination and the only claimed fatality was in a man who was fully vaccinated (even though he didn’t actually die from measles). Or just read this:

    http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/11/1458.full

    “There was evidence of waning immunity, which is a likely factor in mumps outbreaks, aggravated by possible antigenic differences between the vaccine strain and outbreak strains. Inadequate vaccine coverage or use of the Rubini vaccine strain accounted for the majority of outbreaks reviewed; however, some outbreaks could not be prevented, despite high vaccination coverage with 2 doses of the Jeryl Lynn vaccine strain.”

    The mumps reference is particularly important since mumps rarely has serious or long lasting consequences when contracted in the young, but, like most childhood diseases, the older the age of infection, the higher the risk of complication and long term impact. The recent outbreaks in US universities stand as a testament to the failure of this particular vaccine.

    Like

  19. Robert
    June 30, 2013 at 2:50 am

    By the way, for those of you who aren’t spamming and are actually looking for the truth about vaccines, read this:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130625141208.htm

    “June 25, 2013 — The largest investigation to date has found a dramatic increase in the number of hospitalizations for children with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) during the past decade in the United States.”

    That is the type of complication related to autism that Wakefield said justified “more research” for which he was pilloried. And there have been other studies confirming his findings, including the fact that the pharma industry is now trying to develop a vaccine to combat the gastro issues that are endemic among autism sufferers. Oh, the irony.

    Like

  20. dingo199
    June 30, 2013 at 6:33 am

    Robert, your own logic is superficially appealing, and merely follows the “Jake Crosby” elementary grade 600 degrees of separation gambit. The “logic” crumbles under further scrutiny, since in terms of establishing financial conflicts one has to follow it to its eventual conclusion, and think about the implications of what you say.

    Bottom line is, how is Offit motivated to do clinical work, produce publishing output or research work specifically favorable to Merck because there is a link between Merck endowment funding and his role at CHOP? Answer is “He isn’t”, as far as anyone can tell.

    Would the withdrawal of Merck endowment cash mean that Offit’s job at CHOP would be under some threat? Answer is “No”. His indirect research funding stream might take a temporary minor hit, but considering his global vaccine research status, people are likely to be queuing up to provide direct support if he wished it, from institutional and central sources of funding as well as pharma sources (in fact his primary research studies have precious little direct pharma funding as far as I can tell from looking at them).

    Does Offit support vaccines or produce research that shows their benefit? Obviously “Yes”.
    Do the ultimate interests of vaccine pharma (to produce effective, safe and income generating vaccines) merge with Offit’s interests (to save lives through the development of safe and effective vaccines)? Answer is “Yes”, but this hardly means that what Offit does derives from the financial motive of the other, merely because there are some overlapping interests.

    One could also point out that Offit has supported vaccines that would directly benefit Merck’s competitors (either by supporting directly competing products or supporting products not produced by Merck). So how does that work then? Are they not slipping sufficient Roo snacks into their pet poodle’s doggie bowl?

    And remember vaccines comprise less than 5% of Merck’s output. So what of all the other products, such as antibiotics and antivirals which are used to treat infections? If Merck wanted Offit to make them more money, they would be sponsoring him to say vaccines were evil, and thereby letting infection run riot. So much more profitable for them to have doctors treating recurrent illnesses than preventing them, you will find.

    Like

  21. dingo199
    June 30, 2013 at 6:47 am

    Robert :
    Not to belabor the obvious, but the recent “outbreak” in Wales was in a population of with 97% vaccination and the only claimed fatality was in a man who was fully vaccinated (even though he didn’t actually die from measles).

    Sorry Robert, are you describing some measles outbreak on Mars?

    In Wales, UK, Planet Earth, almost all those catching measles were unvaccinated, with the majority of those being young teenagers who missed out on MMR ten years ago when the fraudster Wakefield’s paranoia was at its height. The vax rate dropped to around 60% in South Wales, leaving huge swathes of unprotected, vulnerable people to catch measles since then. Here is data for one of the Health Boards in Wales – you can see how vaccination dropped in the early 2000s, and is only now recovering, but stil well below 95%.
    http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sites3/page.cfm?orgid=457&pid=52764

    And the death from measles was in a young man who had not been vaccinated.

    You think different, show us the evidence for your ridiculous claims.

    Like

  22. dingo199
    June 30, 2013 at 6:53 am

    Robert :
    By the way, for those of you who aren’t spamming and are actually looking for the truth about vaccines, read this:
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130625141208.htm
    “June 25, 2013 — The largest investigation to date has found a dramatic increase in the number of hospitalizations for children with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) during the past decade in the United States.”
    That is the type of complication related to autism that Wakefield said justified “more research” for which he was pilloried. And there have been other studies confirming his findings, including the fact that the pharma industry is now trying to develop a vaccine to combat the gastro issues that are endemic among autism sufferers. Oh, the irony.

    Except inflammatory bowel disease has nothing to do with vaccination. Fraudster Wakefield was trying to describe a separate form of damage (which nobody else has been able to find before or since), and his original idea that Crohn’s disease (the type of Inflammatory bowel disease he talked about) was linked to measles/MMR was even dropped by him.

    Like

  23. dingo199
    June 30, 2013 at 9:18 am

    Robert :
    Or just read this:
    http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/11/1458.full
    “There was evidence of waning immunity, which is a likely factor in mumps outbreaks, aggravated by possible antigenic differences between the vaccine strain and outbreak strains. Inadequate vaccine coverage or use of the Rubini vaccine strain accounted for the majority of outbreaks reviewed; however, some outbreaks could not be prevented, despite high vaccination coverage with 2 doses of the Jeryl Lynn vaccine strain.”

    Except you are cherrypicking quotes from the article and ignoring what it says.

    The full cite (you skipped the first sentence, for obvious reasons) is this:

    Vaccine effectiveness after 2 doses of mumps vaccine was reported in 3 outbreaks and ranged from 91% to 94.6%. There was evidence of waning immunity, which is a likely factor in mumps outbreaks, aggravated by possible antigenic differences between the vaccine strain and outbreak strains. Inadequate vaccine coverage or use of the Rubini vaccine strain accounted for the majority of outbreaks reviewed; however, some outbreaks could not be prevented, despite high vaccination coverage with 2 doses of the Jeryl Lynn vaccine strain.”

    Translated for you:
    Rubini vaccine is pretty useless, best vax is Jeryl Lynn, but overall effectiveness is 91-95%.
    Waning immunity is a factor in outbreaks (so we need an even better vaccine for mumps, or could just give a booster).
    Despite high vaccination rates sometimes outbreaks still happen (because kids lose some immunity as they get older – so to fix this get an even better vaccine or just give a booster)

    You dismiss mumps as being harmless in kids, but all the data tells us that around one child in ten gets aseptic meningitis with mumps. Now you may recall, this is the “dreaded, evil, highly dangerous” complication that could affect around one child in 12,000 who received the Urabe strain mumps vaccine, which fraudster Wakefield slated because it could rarely cause this neurological complication.

    So answer me this: Was Wakefield lying when he called aseptic meningits a horrible neurological complication of Urabe vaccine, or just being stupid? And if you think Wakefield was right, why do you think we should let kids get natural mumps, when one in ten of them suffer such dreadful consequences?

    Like

  24. Lawrence
    June 30, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    @Robert – so Dingo has put out real citations and evidence (not to mention logic) to refute your evidence-less claims.

    Do you think you can craft a rebuttal with actual evidence or facts that doesn’t devolve into a personal attack?

    Like

  25. novalox
    June 30, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    @Lawrence

    Given robert’s posting history, as well as his use of cherry-picking quotes, probably not.

    Judging by the cites he/she/it gave, he probably didn’t even look at them or understood what they meant.

    Like

  26. Elizabeth
    June 30, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    http://www.medicalveritas.com/images/00216.pdf
    Sorry, that was the link that went with the sentence above.

    Like

  27. June 30, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    @Elizabeth – I think the fact that your particular “screed” is hosted on Whale.to says all we need to know….

    Like

  28. Chris
    June 30, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    Elizabeth, what “sentence above”? Are you also “Robert”? Why the name change?

    Also, Mr. Walker has no credibility as a researcher, and is only a Andrew Wakefield’s publicity guy. Also, do read what Dingo said in comment #27.

    Note that the Urabe mumps strain has never been used in the USA, and was removed from the UK in 1992. But when Wakefield recommended single vaccines in his 1998 video press release of his now retracted due to fraud paper, many enterprising private clinics imported a single mumps vaccine. A Urabe mumps strain vaccine. So, Mr. Walker crying in 2009 about the Urabe mumps strain that had not been in UK since 1992 is ironic, since it was Wakefield’s suggestion that prompted the illegal import of the Urabe mumps vaccine. See:
    http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/pl-p/documents/websiteresources/con2031106.pdf

    Which says:

    The Committee on Safety of Medicines (CSM) has advised that Urabe mumps vaccine is associated with an unacceptable risk of aseptic meningitis and that the Medicines Control Agency (MCA) should object to importation of unlicensed mumps vaccine containing the Urabe strain of mumps virus. On the basis of that advice, the MCA has today contacted importers notifying them that the vaccine should not be imported.

    Though I believe this is not the first time I have told you, or your sock puppets this. You obviously are having trouble understanding the harm caused by Wakefield. First by taking tax payer funded legal aid meant for those who were harmed by the two vaccines with the Urabe mumps strain in those four years, doing fraud, reducing measles vaccination which led to many suffering from measles, and also making sure more kids got vaccinated with the Urabe mumps vaccine!

    Like

  29. Elizabeth
    June 30, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Mumps meningitis is usually mild: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/mumps.htm

    Like

  30. Elizabeth
    June 30, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8769623
    Pubmed on why Urabe mumps vaccine caused numerous outbreaks of severe aseptic meningitis.

    Like

  31. novalox
    July 1, 2013 at 1:52 am

    Elizabeth :
    Mumps meningitis is usually mild: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/mumps.htm

    Of course, you did miss the revelant quotes:

    However, it still requires close attention and special care of the patient. The symptoms of mumps-meningitis are:
    headache
    aversion to bright light
    possible vomiting
    typically a stiff neck, leaving patients unable to touch their chest with their chin and causing the head to bend slightly backwards.

    And why would you want any person to suffer through those symptoms for 1-2 weeks?

    Like

  32. novalox
    July 1, 2013 at 1:54 am

    Elizabeth :
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8769623
    Pubmed on why Urabe mumps vaccine caused numerous outbreaks of severe aseptic meningitis.

    And that is the reason that the Urabe strain of the mumps vaccine was discontinued, and now are using the Jeryl-Lynn strain, which poses less risk.

    Of course, if you would have looked at Chris’ cite and post, you can see why it was discontinued.

    Seriously, do you even look at your cites? Because they don’t say what you think they say.

    Like

  33. Chris
    July 1, 2013 at 11:36 am

    Robert/Elizabeth, this is the reason why sock puppets are silly and lame. It is obvious those points were addressed to you before, and yet you ignore them. And you are really bad at pretending to be the same person.

    And here you go claiming the Urabe mumps strain caused aseptic meningitis, right after claiming mumps is usually mild. News flash, all you had to do is read Dingo’s comment #27: “You dismiss mumps as being harmless in kids, but all the data tells us that around one child in ten gets aseptic meningitis with mumps.”

    So that dreaded side effect from the vaccine happens at least ten times more when you actually get mumps!

    So now Robert/Elizabeth, it is up to you to give us the PubMed indexed study showing that the MMR vaccine with the Jeryl Lynn mumps vaccine component (since we only told multiple times it the only one used in the USA, and has been used in the UK for two decades) is more dangerous than mumps.

    Like

  34. Chris
    July 1, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Robert/Elizabeth/whoever wrote in comment #18: “only claimed fatality was in a man who was fully vaccinated (even though he didn’t actually die from measles).”

    The results are in: City man died from lung condition as a result of measles.

    Like

  35. July 1, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    @Elizabeth – VPDs are not “benign or mild”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23135464

    There is always a chance that people will suffer severe complications or even die – at rates that are so far above the very rare chance of a vaccine reaction, that to even compare these serious side-effects to vaccines is an insult to those that do indeed suffer.

    Like

  36. July 1, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    @Chris – darn, you beat me to it!

    Like

  37. Elizabeth
    July 1, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Most of the VPDs are usually relatively mild: measles, mumps, chickenpox, rubella (except for fetuses), hep A, pertussis (except for newborn infants), rotavirus, all are usually harmless, though a few people have severe cases and can even die of them. The question is whether the few deaths or cases of permanent disability from the formerly common childhood diseases are more numerous than incidents of severe vaccine injury or death. Many of us are certain from our research and personal experience that severe vaccine reactions are much more frequent than you say they are. Parents must do a lot of research before deciding whom they believe, but surely their children’s lives and future are worth putting a lot of time into this. The measles outbreak in Wales did not kill anyone, another instance of a relatively mild outbreak of a VPD. You shouldn’t say that VPDs are not benign or mild, since they are usually just that, unpleasant, but harmless. We all know that a few people experience disability or death from either the vaccines or the vaccine-preventable diseases, but I believe that the growing numbers of the vaccine-damaged have already tipped the balance of this debate.

    Like

  38. Elizabeth
    July 1, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    Mr. Williams had received the MMR, and so was supposed to be protected for life from measles. His preexisting asthma put him at greater risk from measles, but he had already received the vaccine. It used to be thought that one dose protected you for life, then most countries added another dose, and two doses were supposed to give protection for life. Mr. Williams cannot be used as a poster child for the MMR. He was hospitalized for four days the week before his death, and saw several doctors in the weeks before he died, one even earlier in the day the day he died. None of them diagnosed him with measles.

    Like

  39. Elizabeth
    July 1, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    Novalox,
    Obviously because I think it’s better to have measles for a couple of weeks and then get well with permanent immunity than to be damaged for life or even killed by the vaccine.

    Like

  40. Elizabeth
    July 1, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/02/02/measles-the-grim-reality/

    I liked this article about the “grim” reality of measles.

    Like

  41. July 1, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    @Elizabeth – wait, you say out of one side of your mouth that measles didn’t kill anyone in Wales, then you say that Mr. Williams died of the Measles? So which is it?

    Also, I don’t see where he received the MMR – in fact, I see that he did not, in fact, have the vaccination….

    Again, I’m not seeing any real evidence or citations from you (that are either legitimate or on-topic).

    Want to try again?

    Like

  42. July 1, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    @Elizabeth – I also laugh at your “article.” The number of fallacies contained within it are far to numerous to even begin to adequately articulate….so I’ll just ask you a single question –

    What happened to domestic Measles here in the States?

    Like

  43. July 1, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    @Elizabeth – and also, care to provide any real evidence that reactions to vaccines are more “serious” or common than the very well known and documented side-effects from VPDs (including blindness, sterility, deafness, encephalitis and a host of others)?

    How about something to refute the information contained here:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

    Not to mention that hundreds of thousands of people do die of vaccine preventable diseases, worldwide, every year?

    Like

  44. July 1, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    @Elizabeth – here are the results of your “benign & mild” diseases:

    http://www.who.int/immunization_monitoring/diseases/en/

    1.5mil deaths of children under 5 years old, representing 17% of total child mortality…..that doesn’t sound very “benign” to me….are you another Ms. Parker sock-puppet by chance?

    Like

  45. July 1, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    @Elizabeth – and better yet, here are the latest figures for Measles –

    http://www.who.int/immunization_monitoring/diseases/measles/en/index.html

    Over 130,000 deaths worldwide in 2011 – again, doesn’t sound so benign to me. For every death, there will be thousands of those who suffer from the various known side-effects of measles, including blindness and encephalitis – not to mention:

    http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html

    Some of which can lie in wait for years, then come back and kill. Again, against all possible scientific evidence to contrary – why would you take the position that vaccines are bad?

    Like

  46. July 1, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    Fantastic, legitimate information on vaccines, vaccine-preventable diseases & complications – for anyone interested:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/index.html#chapters

    Like

  47. July 1, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    @Elizabeth – in case you missed it:

    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2013/06/micha-is-dead.html

    Like

  48. novalox
    July 1, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    I was going to post something to the sockpuppet, but Lawrence has pretty much posted a good evidence-based and scientific retort to the ignorance that elizabeth/robert has posted.

    Like

  49. dingo199
    July 1, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    You gotta laugh at the lame tactics of the antivax sockies like Elizabeth. Effectively this is what she has managed to say, all within 3 posts:

    “Mumps aseptic meningitis is mild”
    “Mumps aseptic meningitis is severe”
    “Measles never killed anyone”
    “Gareth Cuffer Williams didn’t die from measles”
    “Gareth Cuffer Williams did die from measles”

    I am reminded of the scene in Total Recall where they announce Arnie is having a “schizoid embolus”.
    I wonder if there is a cure?

    Like

  50. Chris
    July 1, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    Robert/Elizabeth/Joe/SockPuppetDuJour:

    The question is whether the few deaths or cases of permanent disability from the formerly common childhood diseases are more numerous than incidents of severe vaccine injury or death.

    The dozens of studies done over the past decade show that the vaccines are much safer than the diseases, but several fold. If you have evidence to the contrary, then please post the PubMed indexed study from a qualified researcher that any vaccine on the present American schedule has more risk of injury than the disease. Remember that a qualified researcher is one where the medical license has not been legally revoked, or has an inappropriate education (like law, business, journalism, geology, etc). And has not been funded by anyone associated with biased groups like NVIC (like the Dwoskin Family Foundation), because that is a conflict of interest.

    The Sock Puppet of the Day claims: “Mr. Williams had received the MMR, and so was supposed to be protected for life from measles.”

    First, that is not his last name. And second, according to the article I linked to: “Swansea coroner Philip Rogers said Mr Colfer-Williams could not remember if had taken the MMR vaccine as a child, and there was no record at the surgery if had.” And third from the link provided by Lawrence: “But he was told to go home and take paracetamol – even though he had not had the MMR jab, Swansea Coroner’s Court was told.”

    If you have records of his MMR vaccine, why don’t you forward it to the Swansea Coroner’s Court. Otherwise, I choose to believe the official notice that he was not vaccinated.

    And since you have been told multiple times that there was no evidence of him getting an MMR vaccine, the next time you make the claim he was vaccinated for measles that will be proof you are making stuff up.

    Like

  51. dingo199
    July 1, 2013 at 8:51 pm

    I don’t think honesty is a virtue much in evidence in Elizabeth’s previous posts, Chris.
    Can’t see her changing her MO now, can you?

    Like

  52. Chris
    July 1, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    No, I don’t. I believe the Sock Puppet Du Jour will now complain about how I am picky about the evidence I am willing to accept. Then will make the claim that all of the public health entities on this globe, along with the health insurance companies, are all in the pay of Big Pharma. Plus anything done by the government is equivalent to a police state, so it is evil.

    To which, I will be glad to personally send this person on a slow boat to Somalia where there is neither government nor police, a perfect libertarian nirvana.

    Like

  53. Robert
    July 2, 2013 at 1:10 am

    Do you have any idea how lame you are accusing me and someone else of being the same person? I work for a living and don’t have the time to read this stuff very often. Occasionally, on days off, I have had some time, but not for a couple of days now. Let’s take a look at what I’ve missed.

    Offit is financially indebted to the industry that made him rich. He occupies a chair endowed by Merck, and all you can say is “Bottom line is, how is Offit motivated to do clinical work, produce publishing output or research work specifically favorable to Merck because there is a link between Merck endowment funding and his role at CHOP? Answer is “He isn’t”, as far as anyone can tell.” Oh, okay, now that you’ve said that “he isn’t” that problem of conflict of interest has been put to bed has it? Now that is what I call an unsubstantiated claim! You know, the thing you accuse anyone who disagrees with you of doing?

    Like

  54. Robert
    July 2, 2013 at 1:23 am

    dingo199 :

    Robert :
    Not to belabor the obvious, but the recent “outbreak” in Wales was in a population of with 97% vaccination and the only claimed fatality was in a man who was fully vaccinated (even though he didn’t actually die from measles).

    Sorry Robert, are you describing some measles outbreak on Mars?
    In Wales, UK, Planet Earth, almost all those catching measles were unvaccinated, with the majority of those being young teenagers who missed out on MMR ten years ago when the fraudster Wakefield’s paranoia was at its height. The vax rate dropped to around 60% in South Wales, leaving huge swathes of unprotected, vulnerable people to catch measles since then. Here is data for one of the Health Boards in Wales – you can see how vaccination dropped in the early 2000s, and is only now recovering, but stil well below 95%.

    And the death from measles was in a young man who had not been vaccinated.
    You think different, show us the evidence for your ridiculous claims.

    I removed your link to avoid moderation issues, but your link actually disproves your claim. There was virtually NO change in MMRI vaccination rates, and the “dip” you refer to actually occurred in MMRII during the 2005-2006 time frame which is completely at odds with your claim that Wakefield’s 1998 report was to blame. Not only that, at no point does your link substantiate any statistics to make the claim, or not, that there was a high level of measles in the unvaccinated. You just made a leap of faith which isn’t backed up by the evidence. In fact, the main claim was that it was mostly children who were not vaccinated in 1998 (aged roughly 17-20). All of this to the side, the one thing that your link does do is support my claim that this outbreak occurred in a highly vaccinated overall population. MMRI uptake was never lower than 82% and is currently 95% and MMRII uptake was never lower than 75% and is currently around 90%.

    On that note, let’s look at Gareth Williams. His mother claims he was vaccinated as a child. He was aged 25 and would have received his vaccines before Wakefield’s paper was published. I tend to believe his mother over you on that count. Also, an inquest was opened into his cause of death. Why? Because his post-mortem was inconclusive. They were looking for measles as the cause but could not substantiate that claim. How do you know better sitting at your computer? The fact that they were actually looking to blame the measles and couldn’t tends to favor the argument that it wasn’t measles. He died “with” measles, not “from” measles. At the very least, your claim that he died “from” measles is without foundation.

    Like

  55. Robert
    July 2, 2013 at 1:24 am

    “Public Health Wales has confirmed that initial tests showed Mr Colfer-Williams had measles when he died but it has not been confirmed if measles was the cause of his death.”

    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/inquest-opened-death-measles-sufferer-3307530

    Like

  56. novalox
    July 2, 2013 at 2:00 am

    Robert :
    “Public Health Wales has confirmed that initial tests showed Mr Colfer-Williams had measles when he died but it has not been confirmed if measles was the cause of his death.”
    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/inquest-opened-death-measles-sufferer-3307530

    You do know that it was confirmed that he did die from complications due to measles, right?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23135464

    “Dr Brotto told the inquest Mr Colfer-Williams was positive for measles and died from giant cell pneumonia caused by the disease.”

    So your claim is pretty much baseless.

    Like

  57. July 2, 2013 at 4:12 am

    Robert, why are you linking to an April story, when today’s news posted by myself and Lawrence showed the young man died from pneumonia caused by measles. Do try to be current.

    And please explain the name change starting at Comment #26.

    Like

  58. Chris
    July 2, 2013 at 4:57 am

    Robert/SockPuppetDuJour:

    On that note, let’s look at Gareth Williams. His mother claims he was vaccinated as a child.

    Citation needed for his mother’s claim. Though it would help if you would use his actual surname. Do you have a fear of hyphenated surnames? That is most unbecoming.

    Like

  59. Robert
    July 2, 2013 at 5:13 am

    How rude are you? Your behaviour is despicable Chris! I linked to an April story because that was when the inquest was opened and immediately adjourned indefinitely due to a lack of results to testing. I hadn’t seen the BBC story, although they point out that the guy was an alcoholic, was recently in rehab, was hospitalized the week before for asthma issues…. Underlying complications anyone? I will find the article where the mother stated that he was vaccinated when I have a bit more time.

    Like

  60. July 2, 2013 at 5:33 am

    @Robert – so, blaming the victim? Typical anti-vax, when you can’t prove your point, try another tactic…..

    Like

  61. July 2, 2013 at 8:30 am

    @Robert – I refer back to my post at #24. I was right, you aren’t able to pull together a rebuttal without resorting to personal attacks…..typical.

    Like

  62. Robert
    July 2, 2013 at 8:58 am

    Since I am on my pad and it is difficult to search for things quickly, I will leave with this Lawrence, you article admits that Gareth was woefully underweight, suffered from asthma, was an alcoholic was on medication that left him even more vulnerable and his only known contact with the measles was through his daughter’s recent vaccination with that live virus vaccine. In fact, he sought medical aid and was misdiagnosed and given the wrong treatment. Well, it is not entirely his fault because the system you seem to worship firmly placed him on the road to death as well.

    Like

  63. Robert
    July 2, 2013 at 9:01 am

    Lawrence :@Robert – I refer back to my post at #24. I was right, you aren’t able to pull together a rebuttal without resorting to personal attacks…..typical.

    I have not resorted to any personal attacks, unless you consider the complete deconstruction of your false logic to be an attack… You and Dingo have provided much in the way of citations which do not support your conclusions or are not relevant to your points.

    Like

  64. July 2, 2013 at 9:06 am

    @Robert – my irony meter just exploded…..

    Like

  65. Ellie
    July 2, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Dingo,
    Can you post a link to any statement by anyone to the effect that measles never killed anyone? No one says that. It very rarely kills, and very very rarely kills previously healthy, well-nourished children. Many would choose for that reason to go ahead and get it, get permanent immunity and the strengthening of the immune system, and take their chances of having themselves or their child be one of the very very rare deaths. As Gray Falcon likes to point out, you risk death or disability every time you get into the car or take a shower, but most of us take the risk anyway, though I don’t, of course, know about you. The vaccine is quite dangerous, and for many is an additional reason to take our chances with the diseases.

    Like

  66. Eliza
    July 2, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/mmr-scare-doctor-andrew-wakefield-breaks-his-silence-t38813-80.html

    This report says, under the part dissing Dr. Wakefield, that the inquiry into Mr. Williams’ death (many choose to shorten their hyphenated name for the sake of simplicity) heard evidence that he had problems with alcohol, and had gone into a detox unit two weeks before his death, so his health was undermined by more than just chronic severe asthma. He had complained of a rash all over his body a week before his death, and saw three doctors in the week or so before his death, including one his mother took him to the day of his death, and it would seem that if he had measles, it must have been a case of medical incompetence to not have diagnosed it. Even his postmortem initially found that he had not suffered from measles. His apparently sudden pneumonia could have been caused by measles, but it would seem from the rash that he had measles well before his death, and should have been put back into the hospital where they might at least have put him on oxygen. Taking paracetamol for an infectious illness, as he was told to do, is a good way to make the illness worse, even fatal.
    I read the other day that evidence had been found that he had received the MMR as a child, which would seem probable given that nearly all British children were given the jab twenty years ago, when he would have been a young child. Very few people I know remember what vaccines they got as children, so that part doesn’t prove anything. But ultimately, I’m sorry he died, and sorry that he left a young daughter, but I don’t think anything about his illnesses and death can be generalized into a lesson for the general public.

    Like

  67. Ellie
    July 2, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    Sorry for having largely repeated what Robert posted last night, I just went back and read his recent comments. Thanks, Robert, great job! And no, I confirm what he said, we aren’t the same person.

    Like

  68. July 2, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    @The “E-sockpuppets” – better that he never should have gotten measles in the first place. Unfortunately, due to the false “MMR-scare” started by Mr. Wakefield (he’s no longer a doctor) this outbreak was bound to happen, which has resulted in almost 100 hospitalizations, plus the one death, not to mention all of those children that have to suffer from a disease that is easily preventable.

    Since you haven’t been able to provide a shred of evidence to the contrary to support your erroneous belief that the vaccine or vaccines in general are “dangerous,” I can only assume that you are simply parroting the typical anti-vax talking points…..

    My posts above show the real danger of your views (how many children die every year from Vaccine Preventable Diseases) – and yet, Measles is one of those diseases that we could in fact eradicate, if only mis-informed people like you would stop spreading lies, misinterpretations and misrepresentations about vaccines.

    Like

  69. dingo199
    July 2, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    Robert, to pick up on some comments you made about my links:

    the one thing that your link does do is support my claim that this outbreak occurred in a highly vaccinated overall population. MMRI uptake was never lower than 82% and is currently 95% and MMRII uptake was never lower than 75% and is currently around 90%.

    In fact, one thing my link does do is refute your claim that the measles outbreak in Wales occurred in a “highly vaccinated” population. First off, some epidemiology 101. For measles, with an R0 of around 15, you need 14/15ths of the population to be immune/vaccinated to stop outbreaks. That is around 93%. A population that is 60%, 70% or even 80% vaccinated is not what anyone would call “highly vaccinated” (anyone but a rabid antivaxer trying to twist stats facts, that is).

    Second, the figures in my link showed data for parts of Wales as well as Wales as a whole. In the part of South Wales which is the outbreak epicentre, there was an antivaccination campaign carried out by the media in the aftermath of the Wakefield claims. This meant that in that particular part of Wales, vaccination with MMR fell to around 60%. Only a misguided fool or a deliberate liar would call that “highly vaccinated”.

    Thirdly, the vax rates nationally in England and Wales were over 90% in 1998, and then fell to an average low of 80% in Jan 2003. This is a national average, meaning there are many areas with varied uptake. London boroughs had some of the lowest localised rates (40% or so), and of course we know about South Wales. The epidemic of MMR fear was in the early 2000s, and only started to abate when Wakefield was shown by Brian Deer to be a liar and to have made £450k from his anti-MMR work. The media took up the story, MMR rates recovered, and now stand where they were before the fraud was perpetrated, thank goodness (local low spots excepted).

    Gareth Colfer Williams was not vaccinated.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2352740/Father-died-measles-South-Wales-outbreak-inoculated-disease-child.html

    If you can find a cite where his mother is quoted as saying he was vaccinated, then let’s see it please.
    And regarding his cause of death, did you miss the bit where the pathologist at the inquest said he had measles giant call pneumonia? If you recall, the inquest was held because Gareth had been proven to have had measles when he died, but a post mortem was still done to ensure there was no other cause of death (there wasn’t). They were not looking to “confirm” measles, but to rule out other explanations, exactly the opposite of what you claim.
    I’s dotted, T’s crossed, end of argument.

    Now Robert, either you are:
    a) Not a very diligent reader, and making it up as you go along to fill in the gaps,
    b) Deliberately lying.
    So which is it?
    I must say that as far as cognitive dissonance goes, your claim Gareth did not die from measles ranks up there with Christine Maggiore’s claim that neither she nor her daughter had AIDS, but some other minor problem (RIP them both, ….from AIDS).

    Like

  70. dingo199
    July 2, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    One last point:
    Gareth Colfer Williams was born in late 1987, and would have been 1 year old just as MMR was being introduced. There is a high likelihood that even if he had been vaccinated in 1988 (and he wasn’t), that it would have been with the single measles vaccine Wakefield was calling for, and not the “new” MMR, which did not reach high population uptake rates for a couple more years.

    Like

  71. dingo199
    July 2, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Elizabeth, I see you are completely deluded now, pretending that a young man (who, being unvaccinated and in the middle of a measles epidemic, became ill with a morbilliform rash and subsequently died with pneumonia, who was shown serologically to have been infected with measles at the time of his death and at post mortem shows one of the classic complications of measles (giant cell pneumonia), which killed him) did not die from the effects of measles and must have died because of something else.

    Either that, or you seem to think that because he was a detoxing alcoholic who was underweight he was severely ill, and it is his fault he succumbed to measles, and the doctors fault they never treated him earlier. I am frankly gobsmacked at your crass insensitivity and sheer malice.

    In case you didn’t know, THERE IS NO TREATMENT FOR MEASLES. Antiviarals don’t work, you just have to cross your fingers and hope. (sorry all the rest of you for my shouting, but sometimes I want to throw a brick at my laptop screen, and uppercasing is the least bad thing I want to do to the E sockies).

    Like

  72. dingo199
    July 2, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    And another last point (no, really, for now anyhow).

    Herd immunity is important because it protects those who are the most vulnerable to dying from measles (the immune suppressed, the malnourished). In other words, the sort of people the antivaxers are trying to make out gareth Colfer Williams to be.

    If he had been vaccinated, he would very likely be alive today.
    If people had not listened to the fraudster Wakefield and the media scare he promoted, they would have vaccinated their kids, and maintained herd immunity, and Gareth would again be very likely to be alive today.

    How can you antivaxers sleep at night, knowing your activities lead to the death of others?

    Like

  73. July 2, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    @Dingo – what our anti-vax friends continue to ignore is that Measles was never considered benign or harmless…it was considered “inevitable” because everyone was probably going to catch it sooner or later.

    Parents could only hope that their children got through it okay, didn’t end up blind or deaf (or suffer and perhaps die from complications from pneumonia) or worse, end up with SSPE:

    http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/subacute_panencephalitis/subacute_panencephalitis.htm

    There were whole systems of schools for the deaf & blind, not to mention institutions, to care for those stricken with the side-effects of these vaccine-preventable diseases…..but we don’t seem to have many of those any more now, do we?

    Again, our anti-vax guests seem to conveniently ignore the past & continue to spout off nothing more than a series of lies, misrepresentations and misinterpretations.

    Like

  74. Chris
    July 2, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    Robert:

    How rude are you? Your behaviour is despicable Chris! I linked to an April story because that was when the inquest was opened and immediately adjourned indefinitely due to a lack of results to testing. I hadn’t seen the BBC story,

    I guess it is “despicable” to point out the results of the inquest. Perhaps you would have preferred that information to be kept secret. I personally think it is despicable to keep repeating the same falsehoods after they had been corrected several times.

    although they point out that the guy was an alcoholic, was recently in rehab, was hospitalized the week before for asthma issues….

    So what? That was why there was an inquiry, and the result was that the measles killed him. He should have been vaccinated, especially with a history of asthma. And if he had medical conditions that prevented him getting vaccinated, then there should have been sufficient community immunity with at least 95% vaccinated. But that did not happen.

    And he was getting help for his addictions, possibly because he had a little daughter. Now that little girl no longer has a father, and her mother is devastated.

    Like

  75. Elli
    July 2, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Alcoholics are by definition immuno-compromised, that is why they are often emaciated and are more likely to get fatal liver disease if they have hep-B (together with drug addicts) than the healthier general population. Having severe asthma was another strike against Mr. Williams, and the two conditions probably account for the extreme frailty which he shows in his photos. Allopathic medicine has no cure for measles or viral pneumonia (usually less severe than bacterial pneumonia, which can often be treated with antibiotics), but it does have oxygen to provide to people with pneumonia to often prevent them from asphyxiating. Naturopathic medicine would use vitamin A and homeopathic medicine has a broad array of remedies to treat both measles and pneumonia. Unfortunately for Mr. Williams, no doctor was able to figure out what his illness was, despite having seen several of them in the weeks before his death, including the day he died, and he died alone at home. Chris, if I am not sure whether or not he had measles, it is because the Swansea medical personnel don’t seem to have been sure either. While you may try to blame Dr. Wakefield, he, having seen many children permanently damaged by the MMR, has a different take on the situation than you do. And for that reason, it must remain the choice of the individual or of the parents whether or not to try to prevent measles with the MMR. At its extremes, it is a Scylla and Charybdis situation.

    Like

  76. Chris
    July 2, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    Elli (our new Sock Puppet Du Jour!): “Chris, if I am not sure whether or not he had measles, it is because the Swansea medical personnel don’t seem to have been sure either.”

    Well be uneducated on the facts no more! Read up the thread at the several links from the official Welsh medical authorities who have now declared that measles did indeed kill the young man.

    And, again, why are you calling him “Mr. Williams”? That was not his surname. What do you have against hyphenated surnames? Seriously, we know it is the same person when they make the same mistake multiple times!

    Like

  77. Chris
    July 2, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    The Sock Puppet Du Jour:

    Naturopathic medicine would use vitamin A and homeopathic medicine has a broad array of remedies to treat both measles and pneumonia.

    Hello there Ms. Parker. I see you have managed to escape being banned and come back with several identities. You seriously need to seek help. Mental illness happens, and should not carry the stigma it has gathered. I am very grateful that one of my relatives has learned that lesson by attending a funeral of another relative and has sought real medical help. I suggest you do the same.

    Like

  78. dingo199
    July 3, 2013 at 3:52 am

    Elli/Elizabeth/Eliza/Ella/Cia Parker puppet,
    You are so far down the rabbit hole on this one that you will probably eventually pop out a gopher hole in Mongolia.
    I think you have redefined the definition of “denial”.

    Like

  79. July 3, 2013 at 5:41 am

    I’m not going down that particular rathole with Ms Parker – as it shows just how horrible her understanding of both science and medicine actually is…..

    Back to the topic at hand – with this sharing of vital information, resources can be deployed much more effectively to hopefully prevent the development of environments for potential outbreaks….

    Like

  80. Robert
    July 3, 2013 at 8:50 am

    It would appear that the story which stated that the mother said she believed her son had been vaccinated as disappeared. I had it 4 days ago and it is now not on any search engine. Regardless, the Daily Mail article statement is in direct conflict with the reported testimony at the inquest, not that it matters much to people who have already made up their minds. Here is the Daily Mail quote, “A young father who was not inoculated against measles as a child died from the disease during an epidemic in Swansea.”

    Here is the testimony as reported elsewhere from the inquest, “On April 15, I’ve been told, he saw his GP suffering from an itchy rash compounded by symptoms of having a cold, it was nine days into his alcohol detoxification programme.

    He told his doctor he could not remember if he had received an MMR vaccination as a child and there was no record at the surgery of him having had it.”

    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/swansea-man-who-died-during-4802699

    Like

  81. July 3, 2013 at 9:03 am

    @Robert – so, do you have a point? Information that appears in the media can be wrong, hence the latest information from the inquest is more reliable. Again, this individual shouldn’t have been exposed to Measles in the first place, if not for the actions of Mr. Wakefield……

    Like

  82. Robert
    July 3, 2013 at 9:06 am

    To be fair, the good doctor is also quoted as saying,

    “He told the brief inquest at Swansea’s Civic Centre today that Giant Cell Pneumonia was one of the “most likely” causes of death associated with measles.

    Mr Colfer-Williams and his girlfriend had a daughter, Dakota.

    The inquest heard blood and urine tests showed Mr Colfer-Williams, who was very underweight at only seven stones seven pounds despite being five foot nine inches tall, had taken a variety of anti-depressant and other drugs.

    But the pathologist said there was no question of an overdose and all the drugs were in the normal therapeutic range.”
    (same source as above)

    Now you all seem to completely dismiss the fact that this was a VERY compromised person regarding his health status. The good doctor fails to mention potential interactions of detox drugs, anti depressants and “other drugs”, probably because there have been no studies done. But that does not mean that they could not have been contributory. Also, his quote (which is often repeated here and elsewhere) that 1 in 1,000 measles cases results in death, is dubious. I decided to check for myself. According to the UK Health Protection Agency, the total number of measles cases reported from 1988 to 2008 was 221,905 cases. The total number of deaths were 45. The actual death rate by these figures is 1 in 5,000, a 5 fold over reporting of danger as opposed to the statistics. However, those figures include deaths from previous infections and the actual number of deaths over that time from contemporary measles cases was 2.

    “In 2006 there was one measles death in a 13 years old male who had an underlying lung condition and was taking immunosuppressive drugs. Another death in 2008 was also due to acute measles in unvaccinated child with congenital immunodeficiency whose condition did not require treatment with immunoglobulin. Prior to 2006, the last death from acute measles was in 1992.

    All other measles deaths, since 1992, shown above are in older individuals and were caused by the late effects of measles. These infections were acquired during the 1980s or earlier, when epidemics of measles occurred.”

    http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1195733835814

    So, if there were REALLY only 2 deaths in 221,905 cases, then the death rate is more like 1 in 11,000. The point is that measles truly isn’t the “dastardly” disease you make out. The hypocrisy of your arguments will be shown in their full glory should you choose to start making anecdotal claims of injury from the illness while ignoring the anecdotal claims of injury from the vaccine.

    Like

  83. July 3, 2013 at 9:20 am

    @Robert – have we gotten a lot better at keeping people alive (who would have died previously from these diseases?)? Of course, one only needs to look at the declining mortality rates of diseases in general since the advent of modern medicine – but, could we do anything about the “incidence” of these diseases? No, we couldn’t – in fact, it wasn’t until the the mass vaccination programs of the 1950s, 60’s & 70’s that we saw a true decline in the incidence of these diseases (including the final eradication of smallpox, eradication of domestic polio & measles in the United States and 95 – 99.5% reduction in the incidence of the rest of the host of VPDs).

    You also conveniently ignore that the side-effects from these diseases are well-known, researched and supported by actual Science, as opposed by the “stories” of the vaccine-autism link, which have no Science behind them.

    Once again, I point out:

    http://www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-do/health-topics/disease-prevention/vaccines-and-immunization/publications/2012/vaccine-preventable-diseases-signs,-symptoms-and-complications

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm

    And for those with compromised immune systems or other contra-indications for vaccines, many of whom are at serious risk of death or disablement, should they catch the actual diseases, how exactly would you plan on protecting them, Robert?

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  84. dingo199
    July 3, 2013 at 9:41 am

    Robert,
    Lawrence has already made the point, but who would you prefer to believe…. a reporter for the Daily Mail, or sworn testimony and medical evidence presented at an official inquest? And you talk, without a trace of irony, about people who have “already made their minds up”? Your efforts here would be hilarious, if a young man had not died as a result of this.

    Now, to the relevance of the case fatality rate from measles.
    Reports indicate this varies considerably, and I would broadly agree with you that in a developed country with access to appropriate full medical facilities and ITU support, it is around one in 5000 cases. However, it is not hard to find where the higher mortality rates come from – in Europe in 6 months in 2011 there were 9 deaths from 21,000 cases, if I recall correctly. UK data as you indicate include delayed deaths from earlier cases of measles (from SSPE). Now I am unsure why you just wish to include acute deaths in your calculation…do you wish to completely ignore delayed deaths, or will you contrive to blame them on something else like Elizabeth would, maybe suggesting they were due to a lunar eclipse, or a shift in the jet stream?

    You no doubt are aware that there is a very strong online movement stating that there is no Wales measles epidemic, and that all these clinical cases are unconfirmed, and must be due to a gubmint conspiracy or something else? You can’t not be aware of this, unless you really do live on Mars (you know, that place where people think 60% uptake counts as “highly vaccinated”).

    Well, if that is the case, and there have actually only been say 100 measles cases in Wales, then I calculate that the case fatality is actually 1:100, or 1%.

    So it would seem that measles is pretty dangerous stuff. All the more reason to vaccinate then.

    Like

  85. Ella
    July 3, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Chris,
    Take a look at this article: http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/14/bbc-news-removes-false-claims-about-measles-epidemic-after-being-busted/
    That’s why I say I don’t know what Gareth had. And it says that his mother said that he had been vaccinated with the MMR. It also says, what I had not thought of, that if he had been treated with the standard steroids for his asthma exacerbation, that would have depressed his immune system, making him less able to cope with either measles or pneumonia.

    Like

  86. July 3, 2013 at 10:22 am

    @Ms Parker – don’t you think it would have been a good idea that he not be exposed to Measles in the first place?

    Like

  87. E.
    July 3, 2013 at 10:30 am

    Well, Lawrence, the U.K. has tried to eliminate measles, but, at a cost of thousands of children permanently damaged by the MMR, has reduced but not not eliminated it. Gareth, according to his mother, had received the vaccine, but died anyway. It would have been a good idea to have prevented him from getting asthma in the first place (usually caused by you know what) and from drinking to excess in the first place, and from taking Tylenol in the first place, in which case being exposed to measles would not have killed him. Sort of like all those Third World children, who, if they had enough nourishing food to eat, would not die of measles either. You focus on one link in the chain, while I, more concerned about all the children with autism and bowel disease, focus on others. Here’s a link to official statistics on measles notifications and deaths in England and Wales: in a typical recent year, there were sixteen deaths from measles out of 103,700, or 1.5 out of ten thousand: http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1195733835814

    Like

  88. July 3, 2013 at 10:34 am

    @Ms Parker – any proof to back up those assertions? How how the fact that the US managed to eradicate domestic measles here?

    In your mind, 1+1 = eleventeen (i.e. a fictitious connection)

    Sorry that you don’t feel that the death of hundreds of thousands of children worldwide is a problem.

    Like

  89. E.
    July 3, 2013 at 10:39 am

    Dingo,
    The CDC reported that as of Oct. 26, 2011, there had been 26,074 diagnosed cases of measles in Europe, with nine deaths. That would be 3.45 deaths out of 10,000, a higher rate than the UK has seen in the last thirty years or so, according to the link above to official statistics. So sure, if you think it is a very dangerous, killer disease for previously healthy, well-nourished people, and if you are more afraid of measles and its possible complications than of neurological complications from the vaccine, go ahead and get it, I strongly urge you to do so.

    Like

  90. E.
    July 3, 2013 at 10:45 am

    I am deeply concerned about the death of hundreds of thousands of people from anything. I have also read Jared Diamond’s Collapse, in which he details the factors that led to the genocide in Rwanda twenty years ago, which boil down to overpopulation and lack of resources to maintain a large population. This lack of resources to nourish large populations of children means that many of them are malnourished, and cannot fight off any infection. Giving them a shot to prevent measles is sort of just a drop in the bucket, when what they really need is nourishing food, clean water, and an adequate sewage system, to build healthy immune systems that can cope with many kinds of infection. Then they too could deal with measles as well as First World children do.

    Like

  91. E.
    July 3, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Lawrence,
    Mortality from pertussis, polio, measles, and diphtheria had already plummeted by 95% or so before the use of the vaccines for them came into use. Improved hygiene, good food, clean water, sewage systems, and less crowded housing did a lot to reduce mortality. All viruses naturally evolve to become less virulent over time, because the most virulent ones fell their victims, who are bedridden until they die and are quickly buried together with their germs. The strains that become less virulent are able to be propagated more widely, as their victims continue to circulate and infect others. So those strains become the dominant, less dangerous ones.

    Like

  92. E.
    July 3, 2013 at 10:55 am

    It is indeed a problem how to protect those who are immunocompromised from getting severe cases of different diseases. Naturopathic medicine has a number of suggestions. I like Aviva Jill Romm’s suggestions. Staying at home during outbreaks of disease would be a good idea. However, it is not fair to try to make healthy people take vaccines which often damage their health in order to possibly protect the immunocompromised. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

    Like

  93. E.
    July 3, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Sorry, Robert, you beat me to it again, I just saw that you linked to the same official Royal Health statistics. I used it last week on an Amazon review comment on Melanie’s Marvelous Measles, and had to go back there to find it. You’re right, it’s more like one in ten thousand dies of measles, and that one is usually immunocompromised (like Gareth).

    Like

  94. E.
    July 3, 2013 at 11:05 am

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10015664/Mother-of-autistic-boy-still-fears-MMR-vaccine.html
    Karenza Cassidy of Swansea says her son reacted to the MMR with autism, and is not having his younger sister vaccinated. Believes measles preferable to autism.

    Like

  95. July 3, 2013 at 11:09 am

    @Ms Parker – the same lies, misrepresentations and misinterpretations, over and over and over again…..just go away or get help.

    And you still don’t know the difference between mortality & incidence, do you?

    Like

  96. July 3, 2013 at 11:15 am

    @Ms Parker – here is what you would be happy to see, I guess:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm

    And this:

    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2013/06/micha-is-dead.html

    Get some help Ms Parker, you are not rational.

    Like

  97. Chris
    July 3, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Ms. Parker, please turn off your computer and head over a certain clinic at the university medical center. You need to get real help, if not for yourself but for your family.

    Like

  98. Chris
    July 3, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Dingo:

    Lawrence has already made the point, but who would you prefer to believe…. a reporter for the Daily Mail, or sworn testimony and medical evidence presented at an official inquest?

    The irony is that if the UK had an electronic database of immunization records as described above twenty-five years ago, we would have a fairly good idea if the young man had been properly vaccinated.

    But Robert has noted he does not like “police state” invasions into his privacy. Which is why I have suggested he move to somewhere that has neither a government or police, Somalia.

    Like

  99. dingo199
    July 3, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    E. :Here’s a link to official statistics on measles notifications and deaths in England and Wales: in a typical recent year, there were sixteen deaths from measles out of 103,700, or 1.5 out of ten thousand: http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1195733835814

    You do need help, Cia. The HPA site you link to shows several things – mainly that untill MMR was introduced the incidence of measles (and the mortality) was high.
    Notice what happened after 1988?
    Yup, cases plummetted and deaths dropped to below 10 per year for the first time, and hit zero within 5 years.

    So what happened in 1988?
    Did the UK:
    1) Introduce compulsory handwashing for children?
    2) Rehouse everyone so they weren’t too close and cosy?
    3) Introduce legislation to restrict families to one child?
    4) Introduce toilets and sewerage?
    5) Introduce MMR?

    Answers on the back of a postcard, please.

    Like

  100. dingo199
    July 3, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    And Cia, I hope you realise that pointing us to sites that say there was really no measles epidemic in Wales (yet one person died from it) only would only go to prove how lethal the disease is, rather than how benign it is. Clearly we should all fear it, since even when there is no epidemic and very few cases, it can strike out the blue and kill anyone.

    Like

  101. sophie colfer
    July 16, 2013 at 4:38 am

    Thanku to all the normal, fully functioning human being of the world for telling it like it is about my brother (gareth colfer-williams) and for those of u who are pulling apart his death and calling him an alcoholic, 1. Its nothing to do with u and 2. I sincerly hope no one u love gets takin down by a preventable disease/infection. All u idiots should go and talk ur crap sumwhere else, get a life, get a jod n get off ur computer. If ur gonna quote thing about my brother, get it right u idiotic pests

    Like

  102. July 16, 2013 at 4:40 am

    I am very sorry for your loss, Sophie.

    Like

  103. sophie colfer
    July 16, 2013 at 5:01 am

    I find it horrifyingly shockjing that even tho uv seen my family bawling all over the news, u insist on pulling it all apart for ur own oddball conspriacy theories. And to the tit that said my brother looked unwell in photos, he was fine there and 10 stone u silly coz-that was years ago so…..next please

    Like

  104. Chris
    July 16, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Ms. Colfer, my sincerest condolences for your loss. I know someone who went through a period when he was young trying to deal with alcohol, and just like your brother, he sought help. He is now a happily married man with two children, a good job, and still very skinny (because he was always like that). It is just so horrible that measles ripped that future away from your family.

    Like

  105. Robert
    July 21, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    sophie colfer :
    Thanku to all the normal, fully functioning human being of the world for telling it like it is about my brother (gareth colfer-williams) and for those of u who are pulling apart his death and calling him an alcoholic, 1. Its nothing to do with u and 2. I sincerly hope no one u love gets takin down by a preventable disease/infection. All u idiots should go and talk ur crap sumwhere else, get a life, get a jod n get off ur computer. If ur gonna quote thing about my brother, get it right u idiotic pests

    I am very sorry for you loss Ms. Colfer, but I am at least one person who mentioned your brother’s underlying health conditions including alcoholism, treatment for alcoholism and asthma. It was not meant in any way to be “pulling apart his death”. It is a matter of public record as to the underlying conditions surrounding your brother’s death through both the coroner’s report and the public inquest. In fact you Mother had reported to Walesonline or their news feed that your brother had, in fact, been vaccinated. The fact that the coroner was unable to verify vaccination status does not lend credibility to or detract from your Mother’s statement. Unfortunately, the report has been edited to remove the statement, which is in and of itself dubious.

    As a point of interest, based on the reports of your brother’s situation, I came to the conclusion that he probably died needlessly because of misdiagnosis and lack of treatment by the NHS. He complained and was symptomatic and was sent home. It is very sad and my heart goes out to you.

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