Home > Expert Insights, Policy, Preventable Diseases > Immunization Legislation May Impact Foster Care in Arizona

Immunization Legislation May Impact Foster Care in Arizona

debbiemccunedavisThe following is a guest post from Debbie McCune Davis, based on her personal experience as the Executive Director of The Arizona Partnership for Immunization and an Arizona State Representative from District 30. 

In Arizona, two legislators have sponsored legislation to lower the standards for families to qualify as Foster Parents. Unfortunately, our Child Protective Services Program (CPS) is overloaded with a record number of children, limited placement choices for children in care, and low staffing levels. Sadly, just when state services are most needed, the agency’s budget was cut.

My legislative colleagues believe that if Arizona will allow parents who don’t immunize their children to become foster parents, than it will be easier for families to qualify to take in foster children.  They argue that any family setting is better than a shelter, and that by removing the requirement that foster families must immunize their children, the legislators believe more families will step forward to become foster care providers.

The solution they offer has sparked a debate and the discussion about immunization is being muted by the perception of a crisis. Sadly, the arguments about the safety and well-being of the foster child are lost.

Despite concerns about budget cuts, we must remember that vaccinating our children protects them from risks that are too prevalent in our communities. Are we in denial about the spread of pertussis or the current outbreak of seasonal influenza? Vaccines are essential in helping to protect children from these very same diseases.

Would we allow a family to foster a child that doesn’t believe in putting their kids in car seats? Or doesn’t have a fence around their pool? Vaccinating our children to build immunity against vaccine preventable diseases is our community standard – just like car seats or pool fences. Why would we lower those standards?

When the state takes responsibility for a child as the result of crisis, neglect or abuse, the government stands in the shoes of the parents until the child is returned to the family or becomes a permanent member of a new family. The state of Arizona, just like every other state, has specific vaccine requirements that are enforced at many levels – workplace, child care, and school entry – all for the benefit of the child and the community.  Parents throughout our state and our nation adhere to these requirements, and in the rare cases when there is a medical reason that a child should not be vaccinated, Arizona, like every other state, allows a medical exemption to vaccinations.   However, this is not the same as the scientifically unsupported personal belief exemptions that parents choose in not vaccinating their children.  That is a choice that leaves a child at risk of contracting and spreading diseases.  And I would argue that it is one step too far for the state to unnecessarily subject foster children to exposure to diseases that are preventable.

It should be mentioned that two families have approached the agency and asked for this change in the policy. One family has a documented medical exemption for one child in their household.  The other family maintains a personal or philosophical belief exemption for all children in their household.  Are we to consider that both these families will offer a protective environment for the foster children of our state?

As the Executive Director of The Arizona Partnership for Immunization, I stand behind the statement issued by the Arizona Chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics.  A vaccinated family provides protection that is a much better option for the children that are entrusted to us under our Child Protective Services Program.  These children already have so many challenges to overcome.  Let’s not add vaccine preventable diseases as additional concerns.

Debbie McCune Davis

Arizona State Representative – District 30

Executive Director – The Arizona Partnership for Immunization

  1. February 12, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    AS A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER WHO HAD THE DUTY TO AUDIT IMMUNIZATION RECORDS. I THINK ALL CHILDREN SHOULD BE VACCINATED. THE PARENTS FAIL TO REALIZE WHAT GOOD THE VACCINES DO FOR THEIR CHILDREN. ALSO, IT IS PREVENTION FROM EPIDEMICS.THE VACCINES ARE MORE HELPFUL THAN HARMFUL. YET,THERE ARE SOME PARENTS WHO ARE TOO,LAZY TO GET THEIR CHILD VACCINATED AS SCHEDULED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HOSPITALS. MY JOB HAD ME FIGHTING TO GET THESE KIDS TO THE CLINIC AND GET THEIR SHOTS. PASS A LAW THAT GETS THOSE PARENTS TO DO AS REQUIRED. THEY DO NOT GO CAUSE THEY ARE NOT EDUCATED ENOUGH AND DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SOMEONE TELL THEM WHAT TO DO. PASS A LAW AND THE HEALTH PROFESSIONALS WILL NOT HAVE SO MANY HEADACHES WITH THESE NO-COMPLIANT PEOPLE. FOSTER, PARENTS SHOULD NOT HAVE THAT SAY SO. THE DHH DATA ON THE GOOD OF ACCINE SHOULD MAKE EVERYONE COMPLY.

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  2. Kris Haynes
    February 12, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    “It should be mentioned that two families have approached the agency and asked for this change in the policy. One family has a documented medical exemption for one child in their household. The other family maintains a personal or philosophical belief exemption for all children in their household. Are we to consider that both these families will offer a protective environment for the foster children of our state?”

    Are you kdding? Because one family has a “medical” exemption, meaning they know a vaccine could possibly harm their child, they should not be considered offering a protective environment for kids? Don’t you think the medical exemption is protecting their child? These are exactly the type of parents you would want as foster parents!

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  3. Jetcityjewel
    February 12, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Does this new law have any safeguards in place mandating only fully vaccinated kids are placed in nonvaccinating homes (so no infants or newborns or kids that can’t be vaxed for a medical reason?) And how is that ensured or checked by the state first if that is the case? In a system so stressed I find it hard to believe that even if supposed safeguards are in place to ensure no child is placed at risk for a vpd that it still can’t happen. And just how many more homes would be opened if this law is relaxed? From what I am reading not many. Maybe focusing on how we can substantially improve the system would be a better use of time. Foster kids have plenty of problems upon leaving the system such as drug abuse and homelessness. Those activities put them at high risk for all sorts of disease including vaccine preventable ones.

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  4. Amy Pisani
    February 13, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    As a former foster parent to a teenager I felt it was my responsibility to ensure that she was fully vaccinated against meningitis, flu, and HPV before we sent her off to college. Being a foster parent requires intense classroom training for both parents. It is a huge commitment and that commitment includes ensuring the safest possible home environment for the child. The state comes several times yearly to ensure a clean & safe home, diligent medical care of the child, etc….this should include full protection with life-saving vaccines and a home environment that is as free of diseases as possible.

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  5. Rose
    February 13, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Parents who vaccinate selectively or not at all love their children and take as good or better care of them as much as those who get them all the recommended vaccines. If there’s one thing everyone here has realized, it’s how fervently we vaccine refusers believe that vaccines are dangerous.

    It would be terrible if children in need of a foster home were denied the love and care they would receive in it because you guys wish to refuse them that home unless the foster parents get them all the vaccines. You know the only disease we’re really talking about here is pertussis, a disease that may sometimes be serious or fatal among newborns but no one older. (And measles, chickenpox, and mumps would be just the same.) The vaccine is not particularly effective in preventing the disease, and the disease is not particularly serious for those older than newborns. And you want to bully these children out of loving homes when there are few such homes available just to promote your political agenda? You know that no one who really (and rightly) fears vaccines is going to submit to damaging their children for the sake of fostering someone else’s children.

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  6. February 13, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    @Rose (most likely a cia sock-puppet) – I would hold Foster Parents / Families to a higher standard, not a lower one. I can understand legitimate medical exemptions (that should be considered anyway – which is why it would be very important for the foster child to be vaccinated).

    Otherwise, if the parent’s aren’t smart enough to read and ingest the real research on vaccines, they aren’t the type of parents I would want fostering a child (i.e. if they are conspiracy-heads, bad foster parents).

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  7. Jetcityjewel
    February 13, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    I’d also point out that the ones with a political agenda here is the antivax crowd. All news reports indicate this won’t open up that many homes to foster kids and will have a negligible impact at best in improving a system in need of serious reform especially if we are interested in addressing what happens to many of these kids once they age out of the system. Prostitution, prison, homelessness and more all of which puts them at risk for all sorts of disease including vaccine preventable disease and death. What is really imo going on here is a desire to validate the choice to not vaccinate to set the precedent for loosening of other laws requiring vaccination – such as in schools, places of employment etc. btw – I’d also say that if you have a medical exemption that should disqualify you as well. Not everyone can and should do everything that they want to do if the risk of them doing so is substantial based on unfortunate life circumstances.

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  8. Peter
    February 13, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Lawrence – your own kids need you, between work and this site, they are missing you. Do you ever take a break from posting here all day and all night?

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  9. Kris Haynes
    February 13, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    I know foster families that how should I say this, are really pushing their limits on what they can do and how they take care of their families and yet you woulkd deprive a child a home because one of the other kids has a medical exemption and is not vaccinated? Rose, made some excellent points above and I totally agree.

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  10. Jetcityjewel
    February 13, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Isn’t that an argument for adding more resources (case workers) to inspect and ensure these homes meet the high standards these kids deserve?

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  11. February 13, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    @Kris – I can certainly see where a legitimate medical exemption should be considered in the process & shouldn’t result in an immediate disqualification.

    As to the other points, again, better not hold foster families to higher standards, not lower ones.

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  12. Jetcityjewel
    February 13, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    You have to also remember the special circumstances of many of these kids – many may have unknown or uncertain vaccination status not to mention whatever health issues they have from gestation to health problems from abuse and neglect. The homes in which they are placed have to have to meet a higher standard to handle those very special needs and circumstances. Better to spend time and money on getting more case workers as well as finding homes that are able to meet those standards. To me, making a distinction in medical exemption vs. a philosophical one makes no sense.

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  13. Kris Haynes
    February 13, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    I do understand your points L & J.

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  14. February 13, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    @Kris – thanks for understanding. I know there are two sides to this & I’m sure we all want the same overall result, which is get more kids into good foster homes.

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  15. Jetcityjewel
    February 13, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    I think most do want what is best for foster kids and I have no doubt that most would-be foster families not vaccinating for philosophical reasons, as misguided as they are, truly think what they are doing is best and aren’t being malicious in their intent in wanting to take in a foster child. The backers of this, however, very much do have a malicious agenda imo because their real motive in using these kids and imo potentially further abusing these kids is to push a boarder political agenda. This is about validating their choice to not vaccinate so it can be used to eliminate requirements elsewhere. It’s a narcissistic desire to feel entitled to exercise a right such as not vaccinating with no expectation to take responsibility for the consequence that choice has in this case not qualifying as a foster parent. Taking focus away from fixing the system in a real way and finding more truly qualified homes is shameful.

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  16. Eosine
    February 13, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    These are foster children. Not their children. If my child ended up in Foster care for any reason, I’d still want the child to be vaccinated.

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  17. Jay Kanta
    February 13, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    Most of these comments are excellent. There is no reason to allow foster children into the homes where scientific ignorance is allowed to override medical science. Immunity can be worn down over time when in proximity to carriers.

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  18. Rose
    February 14, 2013 at 10:40 am

    So you’re saying that you’d rather see these children in an overcrowded modern orphanage, where they would get little personal attention, than to see them at possible risk of getting a usually relatively mild disease. There is a chronic shortage of foster homes, and at a time when skyrocketing numbers of parents are aware enough of the dangers of vaccines that they are requesting vaccine exemptions for their children, you want to tell these generous people that it’s our way or the highway, that it’s much better to have no family at all than to possibly get chickenpox. Really?

    I have a friend who adores children, and he and his wife have fostered a long string of babies and toddlers born to drug or alcohol addicted mothers. For many years they have lavished love, attention, and money on these children, legally adopting one of them who has autism. Every evening when he got home from work he would sit down on the carpet with a lot of toys to play with the babies. My friend told me how he cried and went into mourning for weeks every time the state agency took away one of “his” babies to give back to an unstable natural mother. He would reluctantly send them back with a truckload of nice clothes and toys, and keep in touch when he could. His adopted son had been vaccine damaged. He was unwilling to give any of “his” children vaccines.

    So you want to just strike him and his wife off the list of acceptable foster homes? This improved cadre of social workers you mentioned, unless they were willing to foster children themselves, I don’t see how much they would improve the lives of these children.

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  19. Chris
    February 14, 2013 at 10:55 am

    Yes, if they would accidentally expose a child with a immune disorder to a vaccine preventable disease.

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  20. Lawrence
    February 14, 2013 at 11:14 am

    @rose / CIA Parker – still trying to avoid the ban hammer?

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  21. Jetcityjewel
    February 14, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Yes there are many homes just like you describe Rose that also vaccinate. It is a win win. Finding more of them should be the focus.

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  22. February 14, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    @cia parker – ignoring basic science, evidence and facts is indicative of “not good parenting skills.” I don’t want to encourage a lessening of the vaccine mandates, just because someone can’t think rationally….

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  23. Jetcityjewel
    February 14, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    And again I think it is worth repeating not everyone is qualified either because of their choices (in this case ignoring the science and choosing to not vaccinate) or life circumstances (rare but medically unable to vaccinate) to be qualified to do everything (in this case foster a child.) In balancing everyone’s “rights” the balance needs to be shifted to doing what is best for the foster child. Period. This law is only looking to establish a precedent to lessen vaccination requirements elsewhere and is not going to improve the lives of foster kids one bit and has a very good chance of taking their lives as a matter of fact.

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  24. February 23, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    Thankfulness to my father who shared with me about this blog, this blog is actually amazing.

    Like

  25. Mrs.A
    May 3, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    Here in AZ, the majority of our freedom-loving leaders support citizens’ rights to carefully select products that enhance quality of life for ourselves and our children, the American consumerism ideal. Decisions vary by family, each made with the best intentions. Our advanced degrees mean little in this debate. However, the ability to read and research material from numerous resources, including the CDC, is something every parent should do. Our firm belief, rooted both in our own experience, as well as years of research, is that for us, the risks of vaccination far outweigh the benefits. All the best to those who believe differently. With the passing of this law, many more children will have the opportunity for loving and stable homes, rather than languishing for months at a time in impersonal group home orphanages. With more than 14,000 foster kids in the system, less than 10,000 have homes. I hope some of the impassioned commentators above would consider opening their homes and hearts to children in need.

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  26. May 3, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    @Mrs.A – so, in that particular word salad, where there a point? Because otherwise, that was a crazy, off-topic rant as I ever saw….

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  27. Chris
    May 3, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    Mrs. A:

    Our firm belief, rooted both in our own experience, as well as years of research, is that for us, the risks of vaccination far outweigh the benefits.

    Citation needed. There is difference between beliefs and fact. You need to learn that, and to please give the actual verifiable scientific evidence that the DTaP is more dangerous than diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (the latter is still circulating), and how the MMR vaccine is more dangerous than measles (has put one out of twelve in the hospital of the thousand in Wales with it), mumps and rubella. The citations need to be indexed on PubMed and written by qualified researches, so no lawyers, business venture capitalists, journalists, computer scientists, non-science college professors, geologists or doctors who have had their medical licenses removed.

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  28. Westwood High Teacher
    May 3, 2013 at 11:14 pm

    Miss A – I am a teacher in AZ and can understand your thought process, but I happen to disagree with it.

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  29. Mrs.A
    May 3, 2013 at 11:21 pm

    WHT, good thing we live in a Nation where disagreement is allowed. 🙂

    Like

  30. Bobcat98
    May 4, 2013 at 2:17 am

    Mrs.A,
    Keep up the good work and thank you!!!

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  31. For the kids
    May 4, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Mrs. A paints a clear picture into part of the motivation behind today’s children receiving 3 times the vaccines I did as a child. $$. What is the logic behind vaccinating children against STD’s and diseases spread by dirty needles? What was the logic behind Arizona now allowing fully vaccinated (note: FULLY VACCINATED) foster and adoptive children into a home where a child was partially vaccinated, when those partially vaccinated children are free to attend public school? Nonsense. Thankfully, the AZ Senate, House and Governor sided with the children and passed this Bill.

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  32. Chris
    May 4, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Mrs. A, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. Now where are those PubMed indexed studies of that research showing the vaccines are worse than the diseases.

    “For the kids”, you must not like kids much if you do not want to prevent them diseases. Since when is measles, mumps and pertussis spread by needles?

    Again, provide the facts.

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  33. May 29, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Hi there! Do you use Twitter? I’d like to follow you if that would be okay. I’m undoubtedly enjoying your
    blog and look forward to new posts.

    Like

  34. K
    May 29, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    Mrs. A, I totally agree with you. None of the VPDs are dangerous enough to deprive a child of a home regardless of how the foster parents choose to act with regard to vaccination. Lawrence, Mrs. A. clearly said that there are 4,000 children in Arizona who need foster homes but do not have them. Why do you want to deprive these children of homes just because someone doesn’t want to vax their own children for measles, mumps, chickenpox, or whooping cough? All you achieve is to leave these children without a home, because those of us who know how dangerous vaccines are, are not going to harm our own children for the sake of nurturing foster ones.
    And Chris, honestly, For the Kids as well as everyone else knows that it is criminal to vax babies for hep-B unless their mother is infected with it. As he or she observes, it is almost always spread by unsafe sex or dirty needles used by drug addicts. And we all know how many babies react to the hep-B vax with encephalitis and autism.

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  35. K
    May 29, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    And Lawrence, calling Mrs. A’s post a crazy, off-topic rant is both untrue and insulting, and as such is not allowed on this blog.

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  36. Gray Falcon
    May 29, 2013 at 10:44 pm

    K, do you have any idea what tetanus is? Or pertussis? Or diphtheria? Or why the vaccine for those diseases is so critical? Let me explain to you something. What you are doing is giving advice to people that could impact their family’s survival and the survival of others around them. As such, you are obligated to provide evidence for your claims, lest a bad decision prove ruinous to them.

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  37. jkanta
    May 29, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    K puts the reasoning why people like her should not be allowed into the foster system:

    “because those of us who know how dangerous vaccines are” <= such stupidity should not be allowed near a vulnerable child. The state would be liable for whatever ignorance is perpetrated onto that foster child, and K clearly shows she, and others like her, are not capable of making the kind of educated and intelligent decisions necessary for a child.

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  38. Chris
    May 29, 2013 at 11:08 pm

    K:

    And Chris, honestly, For the Kids as well as everyone else knows that it is criminal to vax babies for hep-B unless their mother is infected with it. As he or she observes, it is almost always spread by unsafe sex or dirty needles used by drug addicts.

    Ms. Parker, it has been shown to you multiple times that is untrue. Children can actually spread it by biting and other methods (not the first time that pdf has been given to you). But yet you persist in posting things that are not true. Which is why you were banned.

    Again, please get help. If not for you, for your family.

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  39. Lawrence
    May 30, 2013 at 6:55 am

    Once again, Ms. Parker makes a bunch of baseless assertions…..how about some real evidence for once?

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  40. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 11:30 am

    It is quite instructive seeing how those who are against vaccination operate on the internet and social media. They have discovered that by throwing out comments they can reach far more viewers/readers than they ever could through other means. And of course, they can lie with impunity. So we see antivaxers repeatedly declaring that which they know is untrue (in this case that Hep B is “only spread through sex and injecting drugs”). They know full well what they say is a lie, but hope that most people reading their comments might believe them, or doubt what they were led to believe themselves about the necessity for vaccines.
    It is impossible to monitor all outlets for this deliberate disinformation stream, and correct the lies as and when they happen, unfortunately. So they keep doing it, knowing that if they can persuade just one parent to skip vaccination and have their child infected with a disease, they will have a result, and it will have been worth it.
    These people are so despicable I would gladly see something awful happen to them. They are like sickening vultures preying on the unwary, and glorifying in the feast of disease and death that they leave in their wake.

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  41. K.
    May 30, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Dingo,
    If you are referencing K’s comment in #34, it is instructive that you have twisted its words: it said hep B was “almost always spread by unsafe sex or dirty needles used by drug addicts.” I challenge you to find any post or any article anywhere in which it was claimed, as you said, that hep B is ONLY spread through sex and injecting drugs. The interested reader might read school nurse Patti White’s testimony before a congressional safety hearing on this vaccine. Her association had reluctantly become convinced that the hep-B vaccine at birth was causing the tremendous upsurge in autism in Missouri public schools starting in the mid-’90s: http://www.vaccinationnews.com/rally/SchoolNurseTestimony.htm
    Judy Converse, whose son was damaged at birth by that vaccine, and Michael Belkin, whose baby daughter was killed by it, also testified at that hearing. You may call them (us) despicable, but that doesn’t make the vaccine any safer or the vaccine-damaged any healthier.

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  42. novalox
    May 30, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    @k. (ms. parker)

    [citation needed]

    You do know that endlessly repeating a lie over and over again does not make it any truer, right?

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  43. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    And Ms. Parker uses an anti-vax cite and a debunked school nurse testimony (argument from authority fallacy) to imply something that just doesn’t exist in current scientific literature.

    Ms. Parker is incapable of doing an honest risk-benefit analysis and is basically here to attempt to spew misinformation.

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  44. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Read this and then decide if your new born needs the Hep B vaccine:

    Hepatitis B is transmitted through blood and infected bodily fluids. This can occur through:
     direct blood-to-blood contact
     unprotected sex
     unsterile needles
     from an infected woman to her newborn during the delivery process.

    Other possible routes of infection include sharing sharp instruments such as razors, toothbrushes or earrings. Body piercing, tattooing and acupuncture are also possible routes of infection unless sterile needles are used.

    Hepatitis B is NOT transmitted casually. It cannot be spread through sneezing, coughing, hugging or eating food prepared by someone who is infected with hepatitis B.

    Everyone is at some risk for a hepatitis B infection, but some groups are at higher risk because of their occupation or life choices.
    High Risk Groups:
     Health care workers and emergency personnel
     Infants born to mothers who are infected at the time of delivery
     Partners or individuals living in close household contact with an infected person
     Individuals with multiple sex partners, past or present
     Individuals who have been diagnosed with a sexually transmitted disease
     Illicit drug users (injecting, inhaling, snorting, popping pills)
     Men who have sex with men
     Individuals who received a blood transfusion prior to 1992
     Individuals who get tattoos or body piercing
     Individuals who travel to countries where hepatitis B is common (Asia, Africa, South America, the Pacific Islands, Eastern Europe, and the Middle East)
     Individuals emigrating from countries where hepatitis B is common, or born to parents who emigrated from these countries (see above)
     Families adopting children from countries where hepatitis B is common (see above)
     Individuals with early kidney disease or undergoing kidney dialysis
     Individuals who use blood products for medical conditions (i.e.hemophilia)
     Residents and staff of correctional facilities and group homes

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  45. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    Nice citations to your sources, Agnid (/sarcasm).

    http://archopht.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=632565

    Known since at least 1979 that Hep B can be spread through human tears.

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  46. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Agnid, again with the Empty Edicts! Try reading this:
    http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2100nrs.pdf

    Like

  47. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 12:44 pm
  48. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    So you think toddler bites are casual?

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  49. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    I provide a professional peer-reviewed article and Agnid provides a webpage that confirms her biases. Hmmm, interesting.

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  50. Karen
    May 30, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    Thank you, Agnid, you are right, very few people in the US get hep-B unless they are in one of the high-risk groups you mentioned, and even then, probably not, and even then, most people who get it eventually recover from it with permanent future immunity. It is only a tiny fraction of one percent that eventually dies from it, usually only drug addicts and alcoholics, whose health has been severely impaired by their addictions. It is insane to give this vaccine to babies.

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  51. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Saliva of people with hepatitis B can contain the hepatitis B virus, but in very low concentrations compared with blood. Tears have not been implicated in the spread of hepatitis B. unless they are visibly contaminated with blood; the risk of contracting hepatitis B from tears and/or bites is practically nonexistent.

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  52. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    So now we know that Agnid and Karen are just anti-vax, not to mention sociopathic “It is only a tiny fraction of one percent that eventually dies from it, usually only drug addicts and alcoholics”

    Wow.

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  53. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    I admit that my link was a series of case reports. But it not updated with the recent scandal in Oklahoma where a dentist has infected several with hepatitis B and C, and possibly HIV:
    http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Costs_of_probe_into_HIV_hepatitis_infection_risk_from/20130430_17_A1_CUTLIN943181

    So is dental care casual?

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  54. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    Oh, Jay Kanta, when a sock puppet says “only a few infected or died”, we know that it is another Parker sock puppet. That is her signature.

    Like

  55. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    Jay, I just looked at 5 different top Hep B health sites and none of them mention tears. I guess they all missed the memo. I provided a webpage? What do you have against the Hep B Foundation?

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  56. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Chris, my baby is not going in for dental care any time soon.

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  57. Karen
    May 30, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Chris,
    You think toddlers have hep-B to transmit? Screening of pregnant women for hep-B has been routine for decades, and their babies are given the hep-B vaccine routinely when they are born. Before the vaccine program for newborns started in 1991 in the US, an average of only 360 babies and children a year were being diagnosed with hep-B. (see Dr. Sears The Vaccine Book)

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  58. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Fear mongering much Chris and Jay?

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  59. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    I have nothing against them, but I offered proof that there is evidence of the pathogen in other places, other than just needles and blood. I’m sorry you don’t like that, but most anti-vax people don’t like peer-reviewed evidence, either.

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  60. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Jay your insults only prove you have no case. Thank you!

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  61. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Oooh, Dr. Sears! What a fantastic source of misinformation.

    And the anti-vax people are the fear mongerers. We’re just supporting the conclusions of professional immunologists that have suggested that Hep B be given at birth to give infants/children the greatest chance to avoid ever getting it, since the evidence is clear that Hep B, if caught early, is incredibly dangerous.

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  62. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Pathogen in other places – wow….so what, it is in different levels and different risks. As I said in the very beginning, decide for yourself if your baby needs the Hep B vaccine.

    Like

  63. Karen
    May 30, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Chris,
    You are right. I do use the word “only” when referring to numbers killed or damaged when the number is comparatively small. You, on the other hand, use the same term when you say that only one in a million is killed or damaged by a vaccine. It is not correct, the real number is extremely large, but even by your lights you are claiming that one tragedy is inconsequential compared to the benefits you (mistakenly) attribute to vaccines.

    Like

  64. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Agnid:

    You think toddlers have hep-B to transmit?

    Have you read the link I provided? Here is more, started by a group of parents who had children with chronic hepatitis B:
    http://www.pkids.org/diseases/hepatitis/pediatric_hepatitis_report.html

    Like

  65. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    Jay, you stating that Hep B is transmitted through tears is considered fear mongering, sorry to burst your bubble.

    Like

  66. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    I never said that Chris.

    Like

  67. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Agnid :
    Jay, you stating that Hep B is transmitted through tears is considered fear mongering, sorry to burst your bubble.

    No, fear mongering doesn’t come with a peer-reviewed journal article that continues to be supported with newer research. The pathogen exists in tears from the infected.

    Only an anti-vax person would continue to try to weasel out of acknowledging that.

    Like

  68. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    @Cia Parker: Stop using multiple names. It’s really sad.

    Like

  69. Karen
    May 30, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    I agree, decide for yourselves if your baby needs this vaccine. But first read Judy Converse’s When Your Doctor is Wrong: the Hep-B Vaccine and Autism. Jay, you’ll have to provide a citation proving how many people contracted hep-B from tears, and from what source.

    Like

  70. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Karen (Ms. Parker):

    It is not correct, the real number is extremely large, but even by your lights you are claiming that one tragedy is inconsequential compared to the benefits you (mistakenly) attribute to vaccines.

    Again, another Empty Edict.

    You really need to bring up the actual studies that show the vaccines cause more harm than the diseases. And don’t try the CureZone fact free link that claimed Japan got rid of SIDS by stopping the DTP vaccine. It didn’t, they just could not blame a vaccine for SIDS because the dead babies had not had a vaccine. And in addition, more babies died from pertussis.

    Like

  71. Karen
    May 30, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Not enough to say the pathogen exists in tears. You have to prove how many people contracted hep-B from such exposure.

    Like

  72. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Agnid:

    I never said that Chris.

    Sorry, Ms. Parker, I got your sock puppets mixed up.

    Like

  73. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Karen/Agnid (Ms. Parker):

    You have to prove how many people contracted hep-B from such exposure.

    While you don’t have to prove a thing? Nice.

    Like

  74. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    @Cia Parker/Karen: I didn’t say anyone contracted it, or that it was proven to be from tears. I said the pathogen is in tears.

    “Known since at least 1979 that Hep B can be spread through human tears.”

    I provided the source above. Did you not see it?

    And why suggest books when peer-reviewed research shows that there is no link between the Hep-B vaccine and autism, Ms. Parker?

    http://www.pediatricsdigest.mobi/content/123/1/e164.short

    Like

  75. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Chris, I think you are confused.

    Like

  76. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Karen :
    Not enough to say the pathogen exists in tears. You have to prove how many people contracted hep-B from such exposure.

    I don’t have to defend something I didn’t say, Ms. Parker.

    Like

  77. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Agnid :
    Chris, I think you are confused.

    And I think you’re an anti-vax troll.

    Like

  78. Karen
    May 30, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Jay Kanta,
    You just dis Dr. Sears because he quoted official statistics proving that the rate of hep-
    B among children was only an average of 360 a year, while vaccine researchers claimed that the number of children contracting hep-B every year was really 30,000, with no basis in fact. And he revealed the dangers of aluminum in vaccines. Interested readers should check it out, and compare his cited sources with the information promulgated here.

    Like

  79. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    Karen/Agnid, the use of sock puppets is meant to be confusing. But it is actually pathetic.

    Again, if you have actual PubMed indexed studies by a qualified researcher that show the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease, then just give us the PMIDs.

    Like

  80. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Jay, “No, fear mongering doesn’t come with a peer-reviewed journal article that continues to be supported with newer research. The pathogen exists in tears from the infected.
    Only an anti-vax person would continue to try to weasel out of acknowledging that.”

    You’re really not that bright, or you are purposely lying. I did acknowledge it, go back and read my comments again and see if you can comprehend them this time.

    Like

  81. Karen
    May 30, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    #45 Jay, you said: “Known since at least 1979 that Hep B can be spread through human tears.” Why did you say in 76 that you did not say this?

    Like

  82. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Karen :
    Jay Kanta,
    You just dis Dr. Sears because he quoted official statistics proving that the rate of hep-
    B among children was only an average of 360 a year, while vaccine researchers claimed that the number of children contracting hep-B every year was really 30,000, with no basis in fact. And he revealed the dangers of aluminum in vaccines. Interested readers should check it out, and compare his cited sources with the information promulgated here.

    Dr. Sears is not a researcher and has been caught making many unsupported assertions, Ms. Parker. He is not a credible source for anything at all.

    Like

  83. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Chris…why do you insist on calling me Karen?

    Like

  84. May 30, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    @Karen – hypocrite much? Please provide the “proof” that vaccines are either dangerous (and while you are at it, please provide your definition of “safe”) or cause injuries at a rate greater than what is spelled out quite clearly here:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

    Otherwise, you are just providing more baseless assertions…..

    Like

  85. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Karen :
    #45 Jay, you said: “Known since at least 1979 that Hep B can be spread through human tears.” Why did you say in 76 that you did not say this?

    The pathogen exists in tears, so it can be spread through tears.

    Logic not your big thing, eh?

    Like

  86. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    Agnid :
    Jay, I think you are pathetically stupid.

    Cute, but I’m also the one proving you wrong by using professional peer-reviewed citations, while you just keep using webpages and ignoring the evidence.

    Like

  87. K
    May 30, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    Thanks, Agnid, and they cannot say we are really the same person, since they can see that we are posting at the same time. My daughter reacted with encephalitis to the hep-B vax at birth, which I had said I didn’t want her to get, as I had read it often caused autism. And she was later diagnosed with autism. But wait and see how they tear to pieces the messenger from the front trying to warn others.

    Like

  88. K
    May 30, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Jay,
    People are exposed to thousands, if not millions, of pathogens every day without displaying symptoms of illness. That is what our immune systems are for. You haven’t proven that a single person has been infected with hep-B through the vector of tears. Are you really a new nym for Lara?

    Like

  89. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    K :
    Thanks, Agnid, and they cannot say we are really the same person, since they can see that we are posting at the same time. My daughter reacted with encephalitis to the hep-B vax at birth, which I had said I didn’t want her to get, as I had read it often caused autism. And she was later diagnosed with autism. But wait and see how they tear to pieces the messenger from the front trying to warn others.

    Ms. Parker, we’ve already been over that claim of yours, on many different web pages. We’ve also shown that you’ve lied about it and changed the story many times. You are a dishonest troll that uses her child’s health as a tool to gain attention.

    Like

  90. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Really Jay? Please show me the top Hep B sites and what they say about the risk from tears.

    I guess you missed this comment from me, please show me where I am denying anything.

    “Saliva of people with hepatitis B can contain the hepatitis B virus, but in very low concentrations compared with blood. Tears have not been implicated in the spread of hepatitis B. unless they are visibly contaminated with blood; the risk of contracting hepatitis B from tears and/or bites is practically nonexistent.”

    Like

  91. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    K :
    Jay,
    People are exposed to thousands, if not millions, of pathogens every day without displaying symptoms of illness. That is what our immune systems are for. You haven’t proven that a single person has been infected with hep-B through the vector of tears. Are you really a new nym for Lara?

    I didn’t say someone has been shown to have caught it from tears. I said the pathogen exists in tears. The existence of the pathogen indicates a possible transmission path. That is all that I claimed. Please stop using straw man fallacies.

    Like

  92. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    K, these people are very hostile here. I assume because they are losing the battle.

    Like

  93. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Agnid :
    Really Jay? Please show me the top Hep B sites and what they say about the risk from tears.
    I guess you missed this comment from me, please show me where I am denying anything.
    “Saliva of people with hepatitis B can contain the hepatitis B virus, but in very low concentrations compared with blood. Tears have not been implicated in the spread of hepatitis B. unless they are visibly contaminated with blood; the risk of contracting hepatitis B from tears and/or bites is practically nonexistent.”

    Yes, you casually dismissed it, just like a good anti-vax troll.You also didn’t supply evidence of your claims.

    Like

  94. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    Agnid :
    K, these people are very hostile here. I assume because they are losing the battle.

    More evidence that Agnid is nothing more than an anti-vax troll.

    Like

  95. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    Jay….so I guess you are fear mongering. No proof that somebody got Hep B from tears?

    Like

  96. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    By showing that the pathogen can exist in tears? That’s what you think is fear mongering? You think showing that a possible transmission pathway is fear mongering?

    I support the vax schedule, as is, because it works. There is no evidence that it needs to be changed, just the baseless assertions of anti-vax nuts like you.

    Like

  97. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    Never said I was anit-vax or a troll. Why don’t you go back and read my very first comment Jay? You really need to start reading and listening to others better. I guess your big ego gets in the way.

    Like

  98. May 30, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    @Agnid – you’re a hypocrite, plain and simple (as is Ms. Parker), since you refuse to, or are unable to provide any evidence for your assertions….they are, in fact, baseless and without proof….so which of us is fear-mongering here?

    How about refuting the numbers provided here:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

    And if you use a conspiracy theory (i.e. cover-up) or phama-shill gambit, you automatically lose.

    Like

  99. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    Yes Jay, that is fear mongering. You say the Hep B vaccine is needed because it can be spread through tears. That is fear mongering Jay.

    Like

  100. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    lawrence, go back to my very first comment and read it. Now read this http://www.hepb.org/hepb/transmission.htm

    How am I not providing evidence for my statement again?

    Like

  101. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    lawrence, here is my first comment since you missed it. Now tell me how this is fear mongering again?

    Read this and then decide if your new born needs the Hep B vaccine:

    Hepatitis B is transmitted through blood and infected bodily fluids. This can occur through:
     direct blood-to-blood contact
     unprotected sex
     unsterile needles
     from an infected woman to her newborn during the delivery process.

    Other possible routes of infection include sharing sharp instruments such as razors, toothbrushes or earrings. Body piercing, tattooing and acupuncture are also possible routes of infection unless sterile needles are used.

    Hepatitis B is NOT transmitted casually. It cannot be spread through sneezing, coughing, hugging or eating food prepared by someone who is infected with hepatitis B.

    Everyone is at some risk for a hepatitis B infection, but some groups are at higher risk because of their occupation or life choices.
    High Risk Groups:
     Health care workers and emergency personnel
     Infants born to mothers who are infected at the time of delivery
     Partners or individuals living in close household contact with an infected person
     Individuals with multiple sex partners, past or present
     Individuals who have been diagnosed with a sexually transmitted disease
     Illicit drug users (injecting, inhaling, snorting, popping pills)
     Men who have sex with men
     Individuals who received a blood transfusion prior to 1992
     Individuals who get tattoos or body piercing
     Individuals who travel to countries where hepatitis B is common (Asia, Africa, South America, the Pacific Islands, Eastern Europe, and the Middle East)
     Individuals emigrating from countries where hepatitis B is common, or born to parents who emigrated from these countries (see above)
     Families adopting children from countries where hepatitis B is common (see above)
     Individuals with early kidney disease or undergoing kidney dialysis
     Individuals who use blood products for medical conditions (i.e.hemophilia)
     Residents and staff of correctional facilities and group homes

    Like

  102. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    It’s called concern trolling, Agnid. It is a favorite tactic of anti-vax people. It is an attempt to get a foot in the door by pretending that there is “concern” over some minor cherry picked evidence. I’ve seen your kind, far too often.

    Like

  103. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    Huh? No idea what you are talking about Jay.

    I provided accurate information and said decide for yourself. How is that a foot in the door or cherry picked anything?

    Like

  104. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Making me laugh Jay…..my kind? Tactic? I admit it, I am really a secret agent under cover.

    Like

  105. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    Agnid :
    Making me laugh Jay…..my kind? Tactic? I admit it, I am really a secret agent under cover.

    You’re just another anti-vax troll, Agnid. The kind that infests message boards, facebook pages and other sites.

    Like

  106. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    I thought I was a secret agent? Can’t make up your mind?

    Like

  107. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Agnid, that page listed “those who are most at risk.” It did not say they were the only ones at risk.

    Like

  108. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Agnid :
    I thought I was a secret agent? Can’t make up your mind?

    He never said that. Lying about what people say does not help your case.

    Like

  109. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Agnid, just provide the PubMed indexed study by a qualified researcher that the HepB vaccine is more dangerous than hepatitis b. By qualified we mean no one whose medical credentials have been legally revoked, whose research is paid by questionable means (lie the Dwoskin Family Foundation), or have an inappropriate education like law, business, geology, computer science, journalism, etc.

    Like

  110. K
    May 30, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Jay,
    Tell me how my story has changed. My daughter had a severe reaction to at least two vaccines: screaming constantly and inconsolably for four days and nights starting at nearly four days after receiving the hep-B vax at the hospital at midnight on the day she was born. Classic time for beginning of reactions is between three and five days post-vax. She had started saying two words by 18 months, uh for up and uff for dog, delayed but progressing. As soon as she got the DTaP booster at that time, her two words disappeared, and she didn’t say another word until the end of March 2003, at 34 months of age. Evidence of further brain damage caused by a vaccine. She was diagnosed with autism at 20 months. Is it too much for you to understand that many people have at least two severe reactions to vaccines given at different times? I reacted to the DPT given when I was three months old by several days of endless screaming, presumably encephalitis. My brother reacted a year later by beating his head on the sides of the crib, also presumably encephalitis. We both have Asperger’s now. I reacted to a tetanus shot when I was nineteen with both arms being paralyzed for several days starting the same day, brachial plexus neuropathy, and went on to develop MS (like those thousands of people in France, except that they reacted to the hep-B vax with MS). These are several pieces of true information: can your mind not accomodate more than one piece of information at a time?

    Like

  111. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Gray, Jay did characterize me with the same traits that are also known for secret agents.

    Chris, why do I need to do that? My very first comment says exactly what I want to say here, and I did.

    Like

  112. K
    May 30, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Chris,
    So you’re saying that the only researchers whose credentials you accept as valid are paid by a pharmaceutical company?

    Like

  113. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22508939
    Took me about 0.2 seconds with google to confirm that children’s tears are infectious. Jay never said anything different, so implying he said that tears were a significant cause of infections is a strawman.

    Like

  114. K
    May 30, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Jay Kanta,
    Your name is new here. Have you gone by other names that you say “we have gone over your claims many times on many web pages”?

    Like

  115. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Ms. Parker, you are using correlation without causation. Encephalitis is not autism, it is not asperger’s.

    Like

  116. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    And Ms. Parker continues with the http://scienceornot.net/2012/03/14/anecdotes-testimonials-and-urban-legends/“>Unverifiable Anecdote in addition to the previous <a href="Empty Edict. Again, never any real evidence.

    One reason for her being banned was the repeating of the same nonsense, without any indication of wanting to have an honest discussion.

    Like

  117. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    @Ms. Parker: I’ve challenged you on Facebook and other sites with the same results, every time. You’re an anti-vax troll with no scientific evidence or experience.

    Like

  118. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    K (Ms. Parker), I have asked you multiple times which pharmaceutical company paid for these reports: Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story
    and Measles vaccine coverage and factors related to uncompleted vaccination among 18-month-old and 36-month-old children in Kyoto, Japan.

    So, what are those companies?

    Agnid, so your comment said what you wanted to say, and you feel no compunction to answer questions? Since your job here is done, you are welcome to leave.

    Like

  119. K
    May 30, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Jay,
    The minor, cherry-picked evidence you refer to does not cover trying to scare people into believing that there is a lot of hep-B being transmitted through tears? Again, the fact is that nearly all the people in the US with hep-B belong to certain well-defined groups, which do not include babies or children.

    Like

  120. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    dingo, you are wrong. Please see comment #45 from Jay.

    “Known since at least 1979 that Hep B can be spread through human tears.”

    This statement implies that there is risk to be spread through tears. So why are you denying it?

    Like

  121. K
    May 30, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    Jay,
    I’ve only posted comments a couple of times on Facebook, and never look at my page., which I started a few years ago so I could look at a friend’s baby pictures. A lot of my posts get put there automatically from other pages. I have never encountered you before, which I do not regret.

    Like

  122. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    K :
    Jay,
    The minor, cherry-picked evidence you refer to does not cover trying to scare people into believing that there is a lot of hep-B being transmitted through tears? Again, the fact is that nearly all the people in the US with hep-B belong to certain well-defined groups, which do not include babies or children.

    Again, that is your worthless opinion. You are anti-vax, so your opinion on vaccines doesn’t really count for much. You’re also a conspiracy theorist and a troll, so yeah, you’re pretty worthless.

    If I want to know about the effectiveness of vaccines beyond what I already can find in peer-reviewed literature, I’ll talk to experts like Dr. Offit.

    Dr. Sears is not an expert, he’s an MD that wants to sell books and be “important”. He has no professional research or expertise that would make him a reliable source for information on immunity and vaccinations.

    Like

  123. K
    May 30, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Like you guys don’t repeat the same things ad infinitum, brushing off all evidence of vaccine damage? Like you guys want to have a genuine discussion?

    Like

  124. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    K :
    Like you guys don’t repeat the same things ad infinitum, brushing off all evidence of vaccine damage? Like you guys want to have a genuine discussion?

    You never have provided evidence, just anecdotes.

    Like

  125. May 30, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    @Ms. Parker – I’ll be reporting your slipping around your ban, just FYI.

    Until such time, why have you never provided any real evidence of your assertions?

    Like

  126. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    There seems to be a pattern emerging. The antivax contingent, consisting of Cia Parker (aka “K”) and her sockpuppets, say that hep B is not a problem for babies/infants.
    Normally that would be the case, but there are many examples of cases where infants have been infected through unknown exposures (around 30% of all cases) or through minor casual contact with another Hep B infected child. There are also instances where mothers with Hep B have not had screening and do not know they are infected.

    This is relevant, because should a child catch Hep B in infancy/after birth, there is a 90% chance the baby will become infected and be a chronic carrier, and a 25% chance they will die from the infection.

    For the antivaxers to dismiss these well documented and proven outcomes is surprising, seeing as how they themselves rely on unverified anecdotes to spread alarm that the vaccine is dangerous. You would imagine that a proven (though infrequent) but medically quite devastating risk to a baby (ie hep b) would evoke more of a response on the part of these caring mothers to do all they could to prevent it. Instead, they use the tales of extremely rare and unverified instances of reputed vaccine damage to argue that vaccination is not an option. Did they check in their logic at the door when they came in or what?

    See here for some hard data on Hep B in infants and on vaccination:
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/rr/rr5516.pdf
    http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/general/why-hepatitis-b-immunization-recommended-all-infants-children-and-adolescents
    Quote:

    The consequences of acute HBV infection can be serious. However some of the most serious outcomes from HBV infection occur many years or decades later in those who are chronically infected. For example, about 25% of infants and young children with chronic infection will die prematurely as adolescents or, more typically, as adults from liver disease or liver cancer.
    For these reasons, prevention of HBV transmission from person to person early in life is important.
    HBV causes 5,000 deaths each year in the United States, including 3,000–4,000 from cirrhosis and approximately 1,000–1,500 from primary liver cancer.
    The estimated medical and work loss cost per year of HBV is $700 million in the U.S.2 About 1.25 million people in the US have chronic HBV infection; worldwide, more than 350 million people have chronic HBV infection.

    and

    While HBV is most effectively transmitted from one person to another through blood and body fluids by sexual contact, injection drug use, or occupational exposure,

    –As many as 16%-30% of hepatitis B cases have no known source of infection.10 11
    –Mothers who have chronic HBV infection can transmit the virus to their newborns. They are often unaware that they are HBV infected. There are specific recommendations for the management of infants born to either HBV infected mothers or to mothers with unknown HBV infection status.1
    –For children, the most common sources of HBV infection is from their mother at birth or subsequently, or by transmission from an infected household contact.2
    –Unvaccinated children in families with no known risk factors are still at risk of infection through normal play activities. The sources of their infection are unknown but HBV could be transmitted through contact of non-intact skin (as occurs in school yard abrasions), by sharing contaminated inanimate objects (such as toothbrushes, towels, or bed sheets), and by being bitten.12 13 14 Thus, children whose families seemingly are not at risk of HBV infection may also be at risk of becoming HBV-infected, as there is no way to know which child will eventually be exposed.
    –Teenagers have increased risk of HBV exposure when they become sexually active.

    Like

  127. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    I guess “can be” and “have” are two different things. So why did Jay bring it up in the first place? Oh yeah….fear mongering. He didn’t like the list I made and wanted to add “tears” to it. Jay can’t have it both ways, either he says “tears” are risky, which you are all now denying, or he says “tears” are not risky, and if that is the case why did he bring it up?

    Like

  128. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    K, Jay has “challenged” you on FB before. Sounds really important doesn’t he? Maybe he thinks he is a big scientist or some other important person.

    Like

  129. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Agnid :
    I guess “can be” and “have” are two different things. So why did Jay bring it up in the first place? Oh yeah….fear mongering. He didn’t like the list I made and wanted to add “tears” to it. Jay can’t have it both ways, either he says “tears” are risky, which you are all now denying, or he says “tears” are not risky, and if that is the case why did he bring it up?

    You didn’t make the list, you provided it from an external source. Tears are a possible path of infection. Many infections have unknown causes. Tears “could” be one of those sources.

    Pick many nits, Agnid?

    I basically was describing one possible path that was being ignored that shouldn’t be ignored. It isn’t just risky behaviors that can pass on the pathogen. That isn’t fear mongering, that is acknowledging the science that both myself and Chris have cited.

    Like

  130. K
    May 30, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Well, if you want to line up behind the guy who thinks you can give 10,000 vaccines at one time to a newborn with no harm being done, then that tells everyone how much credence they should give to either you or him. The guy who has made millions from vaccines and for many years was the number one defender of them in every news segment or magazine article about vaccines. The guy who has tried to eviscerate Dr. Sears for his moderate stance on vaccines and his bringing to public attention the issues of aluminum in vaccines and the deceitful way in which the hep-B vax began to be routinely given to newborns and infants. I’m glad everyone can see your colors in plain view.

    Like

  131. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Agnid :
    K, Jay has “challenged” you on FB before. Sounds really important doesn’t he? Maybe he thinks he is a big scientist or some other important person.

    Actually, yes, I am a scientist. But I’m not using my degrees as a source of authority. I’m using peer-reviewed citations.

    Like

  132. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Agnid :
    dingo, you are wrong. Please see comment #45 from Jay.
    “Known since at least 1979 that Hep B can be spread through human tears.”
    This statement implies that there is risk to be spread through tears. So why are you denying it?

    I am not denying it. The reference I cited says there is a risk.

    Like

  133. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    Why shouldn’t “tears” be ignored Jay? You said yourself you have no prooff that Hep B had EVER been transmitted through tears and it is highly unlikely that it ever will. It goes back to your fear mongering.

    Like

  134. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    K :
    Well, if you want to line up behind the guy who thinks you can give 10,000 vaccines at one time to a newborn with no harm being done, then that tells everyone how much credence they should give to either you or him. The guy who has made millions from vaccines and for many years was the number one defender of them in every news segment or magazine article about vaccines. The guy who has tried to eviscerate Dr. Sears for his moderate stance on vaccines and his bringing to public attention the issues of aluminum in vaccines and the deceitful way in which the hep-B vax began to be routinely given to newborns and infants. I’m glad everyone can see your colors in plain view.

    You mean the top acknowledged scientist in America for immunology and vaccines? Sure I’ll support him.

    And Dr. Sears has been wrong all along about aluminum. But you go on “believing” and I’ll keep working on educating through research.

    Like

  135. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    And what is that risk dingo?

    Like

  136. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    Agnid :
    Why shouldn’t “tears” be ignored Jay? You said yourself you have no prooff that Hep B had EVER been transmitted through tears and it is highly unlikely that it ever will. It goes back to your fear mongering.

    It contains the pathogen, therefore it is a possible vector. Just as a bite is also capable of passing Hep B. The precise method of getting a pathogen is not easy to determine in all cases, so it is a continual possibility. Hep B doesn’t die on exposure, either, it retains viable for up to 7 days on a surface.

    Like

  137. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    K :
    Well, if you want to line up behind the guy who thinks you can give 10,000 vaccines at one time to a newborn with no harm being done, then that tells everyone how much credence they should give to either you or him. The guy who has made millions from vaccines and for many years was the number one defender of them in every news segment or magazine article about vaccines. The guy who has tried to eviscerate Dr. Sears for his moderate stance on vaccines and his bringing to public attention the issues of aluminum in vaccines and the deceitful way in which the hep-B vax began to be routinely given to newborns and infants. I’m glad everyone can see your colors in plain view.

    The guy who thought he could make £30 million from hi own kitchen products to treat autism and alternate measles vaccine was Wakefield. Is that who you mean?

    Or maybe you mean the guy who has made millions selling books…Sears wasn’t it?

    Perhaps he should have been like that giant among men, Paul Offit, and donated the proceeds to charity.

    Like

  138. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    Agnid :
    Why shouldn’t “tears” be ignored Jay? You said yourself you have no prooff that Hep B had EVER been transmitted through tears and it is highly unlikely that it ever will. It goes back to your fear mongering.

    I am still waiting for the “proof” vaccines cause autism.
    I won’t be holding my breath.

    Like

  139. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    Jay, Tears contain the pathogen. Nobody disagrees. What is the risk and why did you insult me because I didn’t have tears on my list? What is the risk of getting Hep B from tears Jay? Almost zero right?

    Like

  140. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Agnid :
    Jay, Tears contain the pathogen. Nobody disagrees. What is the risk and why did you insult me because I didn’t have tears on my list? What is the risk of getting Hep B from tears Jay? Almost zero right?

    Please provide a citation that would prove it is zero, Agnid. That isn’t what I said, that would be another one of your strawmen fallacies.

    Like

  141. May 30, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    @Agnid – Dr. Offit is still a practicing physician who conducts rounds in the hospital & treats patients every single day.

    What is Wakefield doing?

    Like

  142. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    dingo, I never said vaccines cause autism? Why are you not answering the question and instead asking me to prove something I never mentioned?

    Like

  143. K.
    May 30, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    As of 2002, there had “only” been 40,000 reported adverse reactions to the hep-B vaccine, including MS, transverse myelitis, arthritis, lupus. Guillain-Barré syndrome, thrombocytopenia, seizures, peripheral neuropathy, Bell’s palsy, radiculopahty, encephaltis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, eczema, anaphylaxis, bronchial spasms, herpes zoster, tachycardia, optic neuritis, and autism. Even if that very conservative estimate of 40,000 is correct, and many believe it is far more, it places injury incidence from the shot at 4 per thousand, while the incidence of hep-B among all ages was only 0.026 cases per thousand. That puts your chance of reacting adversely to the vaccine at 158 times your chance of getting the disease itself, and your risk of the disease is even less if you don’t belong to a high-risk group.

    Like

  144. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Jay…I am guessing because you won’t answer the question.

    Like

  145. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Agnid :
    Jay, Tears contain the pathogen. Nobody disagrees. What is the risk and why did you insult me because I didn’t have tears on my list? What is the risk of getting Hep B from tears Jay? Almost zero right?

    Conclusions. The levels of HBV DNA in tear specimens from young children were high. Tears were confirmed to be infectious, using chimeric mice. Strict precautions should be taken against direct contact with body fluids from HBV carriers with high-level viremia.

    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/206/4/478.short

    Like

  146. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    K. :
    As of 2002, there had “only” been 40,000 reported adverse reactions to the hep-B vaccine, including MS, transverse myelitis, arthritis, lupus. Guillain-Barré syndrome, thrombocytopenia, seizures, peripheral neuropathy, Bell’s palsy, radiculopahty, encephaltis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, eczema, anaphylaxis, bronchial spasms, herpes zoster, tachycardia, optic neuritis, and autism. Even if that very conservative estimate of 40,000 is correct, and many believe it is far more, it places injury incidence from the shot at 4 per thousand, while the incidence of hep-B among all ages was only 0.026 cases per thousand. That puts your chance of reacting adversely to the vaccine at 158 times your chance of getting the disease itself, and your risk of the disease is even less if you don’t belong to a high-risk group.

    Copying and pasting from an external site without a link or citation is plagiarism, Ms. Parker.

    I know you’re hiding your source.

    Like

  147. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    Agnid :
    Jay, Tears contain the pathogen. Nobody disagrees. What is the risk and why did you insult me because I didn’t have tears on my list? What is the risk of getting Hep B from tears Jay? Almost zero right?

    This risk is almost zero, but not zero. The virus exists in tears and has been experimentally transmitted, so it could be a rare cause of infection. End of.

    Now, the risk of autism from vaccines is zero. Perhaps you should devote your energies to showing proof otherwise before hair splitting and nit picking. The bottom line is that Hep B can be transmitted by casual contact outside of the usual routes of injection and sex. Infection will kill as many as 25% of babies getting it. Vaccines prevent infection, and are safe.That is why it is a risk. That is why we vaccinate.

    Like

  148. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/206/4/464.short

    “Horizontal Transmission of Hepatitis B Virus—Why Discuss When We Can Vaccinate?”

    Like

  149. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    Agnid :
    dingo, I never said vaccines cause autism? Why are you not answering the question and instead asking me to prove something I never mentioned?

    “Your” question” is answered.
    I had a question, maybe as you are such a fount of vaccine knowledge you could help by answering it?

    Like

  150. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Agnid, it is okay that you don’t think that children produce tears on a playground that can be transmitted to another child. Or that you think it is impossible for an infected family member can cry over a hurt child and hug that child without tears dripping from their face.

    But what we want is evidence that the vaccine is more dangerous than actually getting chronic hepatitis b. Just provide us those PMIDs with the evidence.

    Like

  151. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Tear samples of 20 patients who were determined to have positive hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) after an acute hepatitis B infection and aqueous humor samples of 10 patients who were HBsAg carriers were tested for HBsAg, and the results obtained for serum and these fluids were compared. In 85% of the 20 patients who were HBsAg positive, HBsAg was found to be positive in tear samples. In 50% of the other 10 patients in aqueous humor was also found to be HBsAg positive. Our findings show that tears and aqueous humor are important in the spreading of hepatitis B infections.

    http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/310261

    Like

  152. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    lawrence, Dr Offit and Dr. Wakefield….are you sure you are talking to me?

    Like

  153. Jay Kanta
  154. K.
    May 30, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Autism is caused by vaccines. In the case of autism caused by the MMR, you people (?) say that it is just a coincidence, that lots of children have always lost their ability to speak, socialize, and reason suddenly for no discernible cause, and it was just an unfortunate coincidence that the children had just gotten an MMR. I don’t think many people believe you. In the case of autism caused by the hep-B vaccine given to infants, it’s harder to make the connection, because autism cannot be diagnosed until 18 months at the earliest. So there’s no longer any real time evidence to consider from close to the date of the vaccine, objective diagnostics like blood, urine, and feces.

    Like

  155. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    What is the risk of getting Hep B through tears? Anybody?

    Ms. Chris….”Agnid, it is okay that you don’t think that children produce tears on a playground that can be transmitted to another child.”

    What is it?

    Like

  156. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Autism is caused by vaccines.

    An unsupported lie.

    I don’t think many people believe you.

    It doesn’t matter about “belief”, but what does matter is what the scientific research says. And you don’t have any credible research to support your assertions, Ms. Parker.

    Like

  157. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    K.(the previously banned Ms. Parker):

    As of 2002, there had “only” been 40,000 reported adverse reactions to the hep-B vaccine, including MS, transverse myelitis, arthritis, lupus. Guillain-Barré syndrome…. etc

    Yet another Empty Edict.

    Agnid, so in what reality do children and care givers not cry with tears while giving hugs? It is obvious you have never had a hurt child run into your arms with their face covered in tears and mucus dripping from his/hers nose.

    Though if you do have to handle a small child, here is a wee bit of advice: never hold a baby or toddler over your head. I learned the hard way when I got a face full of vomit due to a random upchuck (which is common with small children).

    Like

  158. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Agnid, I’m done talking about tears. You’re just going to move the goalposts.

    I provided several peer-reviewed literature citations indicating that tears are a possible source of infection.

    Like

  159. K.
    May 30, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    And autism is not diagnosed at this time by laboratory assessments of blood, urine, and stool, though biomedical practitioners have developed guidelines for appropriate diagnoses based on discernible differences in these. Today’s medical model just cannot put signs like hand flapping, bowel disease, delayed or absent speech, lack of eye contact and inability to socialize, together with biochemical impairments triggered by vaccines.

    Like

  160. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    K. :
    And autism is not diagnosed at this time by laboratory assessments of blood, urine, and stool, though biomedical practitioners have developed guidelines for appropriate diagnoses based on discernible differences in these. Today’s medical model just cannot put signs like hand flapping, bowel disease, delayed or absent speech, lack of eye contact and inability to socialize, together with biochemical impairments triggered by vaccines.

    More uneducated, baseless assertions from Ms. Parker.

    Like

  161. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    dingo, you didn’t answer my question and it is you who are splitting hairs by saying that we need our babies to get the Hep B vaccine because of tears.

    I can not answer your autism vaccine question, you’ll have to do your own research on that one.

    Like

  162. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    And vaccination works.

    During 1990–2005, incidence of acute hepatitis B
    in the United States declined 78%. The greatest decline (96%)
    occurred among children and adolescents, coincident with an
    increase in hepatitis B vaccination coverage. This success can
    be attributed in part to the established infrastructure for vac­
    cine delivery to children and to federal support for perinatal
    hepatitis B prevention programs.

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/rr/rr5516.pdf

    Like

  163. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Agnid :
    dingo, you didn’t answer my question and it is you who are splitting hairs by saying that we need our babies to get the Hep B vaccine because of tears.
    I can not answer your autism vaccine question, you’ll have to do your own research on that one.

    Did answer your question.
    Done my own research on vaccines and autism. They are unconnected.

    Like

  164. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Jay, “Agnid, I’m done talking about tears. You’re just going to move the goalposts.

    I provided several peer-reviewed literature citations indicating that tears are a possible source of infection.”

    I never ever disagreed that tears have the pathogen. You are done talking about tears because you can not provide the risk. Period,

    Like

  165. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Agnid, what PubMed indexed evidence do you have that HepB vaccination is dangerous? Dingo just showed it was effective.

    Like

  166. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    dingo, what is the risk? I missed it?

    Like

  167. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Agnid :
    dingo, what is the risk? I missed it?

    Conclusions. The levels of HBV DNA in tear specimens from young children were high. Tears were confirmed to be infectious, using chimeric mice. Strict precautions should be taken against direct contact with body fluids from HBV carriers with high-level viremia.

    Like

  168. K.
    May 30, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    And reactions to the hep-B vaccine are very different in different individuals. Adverse reactions are systemic, and since newborn infants are not expected to display much in the way of speaking or reasoning, the damage to their brain function is not noted for possibly a year or more. They cannot tell you if they feel vertigo or severe pain, they can only scream: hence, the cri encéphalique as a well-known sign of infant encephalitis. You won’t know their brain was damaged by the vaccine until the time comes for them to walk, talk, interact socially in an age-appropriate way, and they just don’t. In older kids and adults, whose brains have stopped growing, the injury usually manifests in neuromuscular (remember the thousands of people in France who sued the government for the hep-B vaccine causing their MS?) and sensory impairments, but not in cognitive, language, or social deficits.

    Like

  169. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    So Agnid, why shouldn’t infants be vaccinated with the Hep B vaccination? Please provide at least 3 credible peer-reviewed sources to support your answer.

    Like

  170. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    K. :
    And reactions to the hep-B vaccine are very different in different individuals. Adverse reactions are systemic, and since newborn infants are not expected to display much in the way of speaking or reasoning, the damage to their brain function is not noted for possibly a year or more. They cannot tell you if they feel vertigo or severe pain, they can only scream: hence, the cri encéphalique as a well-known sign of infant encephalitis. You won’t know their brain was damaged by the vaccine until the time comes for them to walk, talk, interact socially in an age-appropriate way, and they just don’t. In older kids and adults, whose brains have stopped growing, the injury usually manifests in neuromuscular (remember the thousands of people in France who sued the government for the hep-B vaccine causing their MS?) and sensory impairments, but not in cognitive, language, or social deficits.

    More unsupported fear-mongering from Ms. Parker.

    Like

  171. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Jay….”Tears were confirmed to be infectious” yes, I know, the pathogen is there at much lower levels than blood. What is the risk from tears?

    Like

  172. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    Jay, your new baby should get the Hep B vaccine if you are worried about one of these:

    Hepatitis B is transmitted through blood and infected bodily fluids. This can occur through:
     direct blood-to-blood contact
     unprotected sex
     unsterile needles
     from an infected woman to her newborn during the delivery process.

    Other possible routes of infection include sharing sharp instruments such as razors, toothbrushes or earrings. Body piercing, tattooing and acupuncture are also possible routes of infection unless sterile needles are used.

    Hepatitis B is NOT transmitted casually. It cannot be spread through sneezing, coughing, hugging or eating food prepared by someone who is infected with hepatitis B.

    Everyone is at some risk for a hepatitis B infection, but some groups are at higher risk because of their occupation or life choices.
    High Risk Groups:
     Health care workers and emergency personnel
     Infants born to mothers who are infected at the time of delivery
     Partners or individuals living in close household contact with an infected person
     Individuals with multiple sex partners, past or present
     Individuals who have been diagnosed with a sexually transmitted disease
     Illicit drug users (injecting, inhaling, snorting, popping pills)
     Men who have sex with men
     Individuals who received a blood transfusion prior to 1992
     Individuals who get tattoos or body piercing
     Individuals who travel to countries where hepatitis B is common (Asia, Africa, South America, the Pacific Islands, Eastern Europe, and the Middle East)
     Individuals emigrating from countries where hepatitis B is common, or born to parents who emigrated from these countries (see above)
     Families adopting children from countries where hepatitis B is common (see above)
     Individuals with early kidney disease or undergoing kidney dialysis
     Individuals who use blood products for medical conditions (i.e.hemophilia)
     Residents and staff of correctional facilities and group homes

    Like

  173. Dina
    May 30, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    Parents who permit their infant to get this vaccine often don’t want to offend their doctor by refusing it. They think it probably won’t hurt, they’ll do it just in case. In case of what? In case your baby has sex with infected people, or your daycare passes around infected needles for playtime? Statistically, among children, the risk of damage from the vaccine are greater than the chances of getting the disease itself.
    The CDC in Jan 1999 released a statement that kids who played sports were at risk of contact with infected blood and catching hep-B, to persuade parents to get the vax. Ironic, because the CDC had tried to persuade parents that kids with AIDS were not a risk to other kids at school, even though there are more kids with AIDS than hep-B, and even though contact with their blood is just as much a risk as contact with the blood of someone with hep-B. The CDC insisted that casual contact could not spread AIDS, and then insisted that casual contact could spread hep-B. The difference is only that there is a very lucrative (though very dangerous) vaccine for hep-B, but there is not for AIDS or HIV.

    Like

  174. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    Dina :
    Parents who permit their infant to get this vaccine often don’t want to offend their doctor by refusing it. They think it probably won’t hurt, they’ll do it just in case. In case of what? In case your baby has sex with infected people, or your daycare passes around infected needles for playtime? Statistically, among children, the risk of damage from the vaccine are greater than the chances of getting the disease itself.
    The CDC in Jan 1999 released a statement that kids who played sports were at risk of contact with infected blood and catching hep-B, to persuade parents to get the vax. Ironic, because the CDC had tried to persuade parents that kids with AIDS were not a risk to other kids at school, even though there are more kids with AIDS than hep-B, and even though contact with their blood is just as much a risk as contact with the blood of someone with hep-B. The CDC insisted that casual contact could not spread AIDS, and then insisted that casual contact could spread hep-B. The difference is only that there is a very lucrative (though very dangerous) vaccine for hep-B, but there is not for AIDS or HIV.

    A new sock-puppet for Ms. Parker?

    Statistically, among children, the risk of damage from the vaccine are greater than the chances of getting the disease itself.

    Cite a source for these “statistics”, please.

    And I do like your conspiracy theory tripe at the end, “Dina”.

    Like

  175. Dina
    May 30, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    In 2004, there were just 10 cases of hep-B in children under 5. CDC’s MMWR June 16, 2006. 53 (53). In 2005 there were only 5 cases in this age group. ibid 2005.

    Arthritis caused by hep-B vax, one of many studies: Journal of Rheumatology Pope Sept 1998 25(9), 1687-93.
    Autoimmune and neurological disorders caused by it, one of many: Clinical Inf Diseases Nov 15 2001 Konstantinou 33:1772-3 Leukoencephalitis caused by hep B recombinant vaccine
    Sensory impairments, one of many: Acta Ophthalmologica Scandinavica papilledema after hep B vax. Fledelius Dec 1999 77(6);722-4
    Blood disorders: one of many, severe pancytopenia caused by hep-B vax, Br J of Hematology, Viallard July 2000, 110(1): 230-3
    Skin disorders, one of many, Archives of Dermatology lichen planus, an itchy condition of hard thick lesions grouped together caused by hep-B vax, Aubin, Oct 1994 130(10): 1329-30
    Diabetes, liver, and kidney disorders, one of many: Intensive Care Medicine liver inflammation and acute respiratory distress following hep-B vax, Ranieri Jan 1997 23(1), 119-21.

    Like

  176. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Oh look, someone doesn’t know how to cite studies.

    Why the new sock, Ms. Parker?

    Like

  177. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    Lack of evidence of hepatic disease in patients with oral lichen planus in Serbia

    Conclusion:  Patients with OLP resident in Serbia do not have evidence of chronic liver disease or infection with HBV or HCV. The exact aetiological role between hepatic disease and OLP remains unclear.

    Bokor‐Bratic, M. (2004). Lack of evidence of hepatic disease in patients with oral lichen planus in Serbia. Oral diseases, 10(5), 283-286.

    Like

  178. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    Ah, I see that K/Karen was banned, and not Ms. Parker has returned with a new sock puppet.

    You can tell by the incompetence in the citations. And they are all over a decade old.

    Like

  179. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Oops: “now Ms. Parker has returned with a new sock puppet.”

    Like

  180. Dina
    May 30, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Protection from the hep-B vaccine doesn’t last very long either. So there may be four or five toddlers in the country at any one time who many be infected with hep-B, and you get your child the vax to protect him from being bitten by any of them. I would submit that there are well over four or five rabid raccoons and bats in the country at any one time, and yet we do not habitually get our children rabies vaccines to protect them from being bitten by one of them. We have raccoons on the deck every night, we are statistically at much higher risk of being bitten by one of them than of being bitten by one of the toddlers with hep-B, and yet no one suggests that we get a rabies shot every year. The CDC says that protection from the hep-B shot lasts eleven years, but the manufacturer says it only lasts for four. I assume it’s because if the CDC admitted that it lasted only four years, no one would want to get it for their children. though since, at eleven years old, they are just approaching adolescence, when the risk of unprotected sex and drug use starts to loom, maybe they thought they could use that small risk to monger fear and persuade parents to get the vax for their children.

    Like

  181. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Dina :
    Protection from the hep-B vaccine doesn’t last very long either. So there may be four or five toddlers in the country at any one time who many be infected with hep-B, and you get your child the vax to protect him from being bitten by any of them. I would submit that there are well over four or five rabid raccoons and bats in the country at any one time, and yet we do not habitually get our children rabies vaccines to protect them from being bitten by one of them. We have raccoons on the deck every night, we are statistically at much higher risk of being bitten by one of them than of being bitten by one of the toddlers with hep-B, and yet no one suggests that we get a rabies shot every year. The CDC says that protection from the hep-B shot lasts eleven years, but the manufacturer says it only lasts for four. I assume it’s because if the CDC admitted that it lasted only four years, no one would want to get it for their children. though since, at eleven years old, they are just approaching adolescence, when the risk of unprotected sex and drug use starts to loom, maybe they thought they could use that small risk to monger fear and persuade parents to get the vax for their children.

    Another unsupported diatribe by Ms. Parker, the anti-vax troll.

    Take your ban and go away.

    Like

  182. Dina
    May 30, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    So, Chris, has there been any breakthrough in vaccine manufacture that has made any vax any safer in the last ten years? You think there’s a date of expiration for personal tragedies caused by vaccine damage?

    Like

  183. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Dina :
    So, Chris, has there been any breakthrough in vaccine manufacture that has made any vax any safer in the last ten years? You think there’s a date of expiration for personal tragedies caused by vaccine damage?

    You haven’t proven vaccine damage, therefore your entire comment is useless, just like you, Ms. Parker.

    Like

  184. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Dina (Ms Parker), I can’t check your cites because you have really screwed up the citations and I keep getting “not found” on PubMed.

    For all I know they are just case reports. So they show no relative risk.

    So just post the PMIDs.

    Like

  185. Dina
    May 30, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Jay,
    You must be a nym for Lara, you’re not very quick on your feet in reasoning. Anybody who loves their children has been alerted that they’d better google the question and/or look for some books on Amazon to read before they take the considerable risk of letting their child get this vaccine. I regret that the law of survival of the fittest may weed out those who prefer to follow you as the bad shepherd.

    Like

  186. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    How long does protection from Hepatitis B vaccine last?
    Studies indicate that immunologic memory remains intact for at least 20 years among healthy vaccinated individuals who initiated Hepatitis B vaccination >6 months of age. The vaccine confers long-term protection against clinical illness and chronic Hepatitis B virus infection. Cellular immunity appears to persist even though antibody levels might become low or decline below detectable levels.

    Among vaccinated cohorts who initiated Hepatitis B vaccination at birth, long-term follow-up studies are ongoing to determine the duration of vaccine-induced immunity.

    http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/HBV/HBVfaq.htm#vaccFAQ

    Ms. Parker also lied about what the CDC says. How typical of her.

    Like

  187. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Dina/Ms. Parker: You’ve lied repeatedly and offered many assertions without evidence. You are nothing more than an anti-vax troll.

    Like

  188. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Anybody who loves their children has been alerted that they’d better google the question and/or look for some books on Amazon to read before they take the considerable risk of letting their child get this vaccine.

    So people that vaccinate don’t love their children, according to Cia Parker, a banned troll.

    Like

  189. May 30, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    @Ms. Parker – manufacturing techniques are always improving (and you can check here for any recalls http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/default.htm).

    Not to mention that there are over 100 new vaccines (completely new or improved designs of older versions) currently in clinical trials.

    Again, where is your proof?

    Like

  190. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Ah, I was right!

    J Rheumatol. 1998 Sep;25(9):1687-93.
    The development of rheumatoid arthritis after recombinant hepatitis B vaccination.

    Ten out of eleven patients.

    Clin Infect Dis. 2001 Nov 15;33(10):1772-3. Epub 2001 Oct 10.
    Two episodes of leukoencephalitis associated with recombinant hepatitis B vaccination in a single patient.

    One patient.

    Acta Ophthalmol Scand. 1999 Dec;77(6):722-4.
    Unilateral papilloedema after hepatitis B vaccination in a migraine patient. A case report including forensic aspects.

    One patient.

    Br J Haematol. 2000 Jul;110(1):230-3.
    Severe pancytopenia triggered by recombinant hepatitis B vaccine.

    One patient.

    Arch Dermatol. 1994 Oct;130(10):1329-30.
    Lichen planus following hepatitis B vaccination.

    One patient.

    Intensive Care Med. 1997 Jan;23(1):119-21.
    Liver inflammation and acute respiratory distress syndrome in a patient receiving hepatitis B vaccine: a possible relationship?

    One patient. Note the title ends in a question mark.

    So, Ms. Parker you have a total of fifteen case reports, nothing else. Since there were more children who ended up with chronic hepatitis b, you have not shown that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease.

    By the way, just use the PMID or cite correctly. And by citing correctly try not to drop the journal name or put in extra words in the title. That looks like you were deliberately trying to keep us from looking them up.

    Also, yes, the vaccine has changed since 2000. Plus the ones used in the USA are not necessarily used France, Denmark, Greece, Canada, and Italy.

    Like

  191. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Good job, Chris. You’re more patient in your pubmed search than I was.

    Nothing more than case studies, no research. I doubt Ms. Parker would even know the different between a report and research.

    Like

  192. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    So I counted fifteen possible adverse HepB vaccine reactions on this entire planet versus the CDC statistics showing 3000 deaths every year in the USA due to chronic liver diseases from hepatitis b (scroll down to table with bright green header).

    I think Ms. Parker has much to explain about her behavior.

    Like

  193. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Jay, “So people that vaccinate don’t love their children, according to Cia Parker, a banned troll.” You reading and comprehension skills are awful. That’s not what she said. I highly doubt you are any kind of legitimate scientist.

    Like

  194. novalox
    May 30, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    @agnid (ms, parker)

    [citation needed] for your assertions within 3 posts, or we can assume that you are just a troll and a liar who has nothing to contribute.

    Like

  195. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    Excuse me novalox…..I am not ms parker.

    I guess you missed my first comment along with link to information?

    Let me know and I will post it again if need be.

    Like

  196. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Actually, Agnid, we need the evidence that the HepB vaccine is dangerous. As noted by Dingo in comment #163 it has been effective in cutting down infections that would most likely cause chronic hepatitis, and resulting liver disease. Since I just posted that liver disease from HepB kills 3000 persons in the USA each year, you really need to show that the HepB is more dangerous.

    Like

  197. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 4:58 pm
  198. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    Chris, “Since I just posted that liver disease from HepB kills 3000 persons in the USA each year, you really need to show that the HepB is more dangerous.”

    No I don’t, your information has absolutely nothing to do with transmission to new borns.

    How many of those 3000 people were drug users and/or shared needles etc? I happen to know 3 people who shared needles that died from liver disease.

    Again, here are the high risk groups:
    direct blood-to-blood contact
    unprotected sex
    unsterile needles
    from an infected woman to her newborn during the delivery process.

    Like

  199. May 30, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    @Agnid – does that mean that anyone not in a “high-risk” group has “no-risk?”

    Like

  200. May 30, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    @Agnid – also, are you able to predict whether or not someone will, at some point in the future, join a “high-risk” group?

    Like

  201. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    Agnid, it is the newborns and young children who are most likely to get chronic hepatitis b, so it is directly related. And “high risk” does not mean “no risk.” Most who get chronic hepatitis b get is as children, therefore they are the ones that die years later from the associated liver diseases.

    Answer the question: provide the scientific documentation that the vaccine is more dangerous than the diseases. Since 3000 die each year from conditions stemming from chronic hepatitis b infection, that is the level of risk you must prove the vaccine exceeds.

    Like

  202. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    Lawrence, if you think your new born is at risk with:
    direct blood-to-blood contact
    unprotected sex
    unsterile needles
    from an infected woman to her newborn during the delivery process.

    Then by all means get the Hep B vaccine for them.

    Like

  203. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Chris, so you are saying 3000 new borns die each year from Hep B? I don’t believe it.

    Like

  204. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    Agnid :
    Chris, so you are saying 3000 new borns die each year from Hep B? I don’t believe it.

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

    Please argue what is said, not what you want to have been said.

    Like

  205. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    Jay, I guess Chris doesn’t communicate very clearly and has not shown why 3000 deaths per year translate to my new born getting the Hep B vaccine.

    Maybe you should pay more attention to details and take your own advice???

    Dina….”Anybody who loves their children has been alerted that they’d better google the question and/or look for some books on Amazon to read before they take the considerable risk of letting their child get this vaccine.”

    Jay….So people that vaccinate don’t love their children, according to Cia Parker, a banned troll.

    Like

  206. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Agnid, are you familiar with basic logic? “If A then B” is identical to “If not B, then not A”. Insisting that “Anybody who loves their children” would not vaccinate their children is identical to claiming “people that vaccinate don’t love their children”.

    Like

  207. novalox
    May 30, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    @agnid (ms parker)

    Strike 3 yer out.

    You have not posted any actual information that supports your assertions, and so, we can rightly call you a troll and liar and therefore all your comments will be discounted as such.

    But please, keep posting more misinformation. Show the world how out of touch with actual science and reality you are, and show how little actual science and information antivaxxers have on their side.

    Like

  208. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Gray…your logic is flawed my friend. Dina suggested that if you love your children, you should do research on the hep b vaccine before getting it.

    She never said nor implied if you don’t vaccinate your children you do not love them. Also, she is referring to the Hep B vaccine and Jat implied vaccinations in general.

    Like

  209. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    Agnid :
    Gray…your logic is flawed my friend. Dina suggested that if you love your children, you should do research on the hep b vaccine before getting it.
    She never said nor implied if you don’t vaccinate your children you do not love them. Also, she is referring to the Hep B vaccine and Jat implied vaccinations in general.

    Logic failure AND cherry picking. You’re quite the little troll, Agnid.

    Like

  210. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    OK novalox…..please dispute any of this information.
    Hepatitis B is transmitted through blood and infected bodily fluids. This can occur through:
     direct blood-to-blood contact
     unprotected sex
     unsterile needles
     from an infected woman to her newborn during the delivery process.

    Other possible routes of infection include sharing sharp instruments such as razors, toothbrushes or earrings. Body piercing, tattooing and acupuncture are also possible routes of infection unless sterile needles are used.

    Hepatitis B is NOT transmitted casually. It cannot be spread through sneezing, coughing, hugging or eating food prepared by someone who is infected with hepatitis B.

    Everyone is at some risk for a hepatitis B infection, but some groups are at higher risk because of their occupation or life choices.
    High Risk Groups:
     Health care workers and emergency personnel
     Infants born to mothers who are infected at the time of delivery
     Partners or individuals living in close household contact with an infected person
     Individuals with multiple sex partners, past or present
     Individuals who have been diagnosed with a sexually transmitted disease
     Illicit drug users (injecting, inhaling, snorting, popping pills)
     Men who have sex with men
     Individuals who received a blood transfusion prior to 1992
     Individuals who get tattoos or body piercing
     Individuals who travel to countries where hepatitis B is common (Asia, Africa, South America, the Pacific Islands, Eastern Europe, and the Middle East)
     Individuals emigrating from countries where hepatitis B is common, or born to parents who emigrated from these countries (see above)
     Families adopting children from countries where hepatitis B is common (see above)
     Individuals with early kidney disease or undergoing kidney dialysis
     Individuals who use blood products for medical conditions (i.e.hemophilia)
     Residents and staff of correctional facilities and group homes

    AND here is where the information is coming from:
    http://www.hepb.org/hepb/transmission.htm

    Now what exactly is your problem?

    Like

  211. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    Jay, I didn’t cherry pick anything. Prove it!

    Like

  212. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    Her statement also carried the implication that if you did do your research, you would come to the same conclusions she did.

    Now, where’s your evidence? If a judge sentenced a man to prison without evidence his guilt, it would be injustice. If a doctor prescribed medicine without evidence of its safety, it would be negligence. Why should you be exempt from doing what’s right?

    Like

  213. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    By the way, the passage you quoted said “Everyone is at some risk for a hepatitis B infection,” which invalidates your point entirely.

    Like

  214. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    I’ve explained my problem with that list of vectors and provided ample evidence that casual contact can be a possible source of infection, Agnid. Now stop trolling.

    Like

  215. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Jay…want me to break it down further for you?

    Dina….”Anybody who loves their children has been alerted that they’d better google the question and/or look for some books on Amazon to read before they take the considerable risk of letting their child get this vaccine.”

    Jay….”So people that vaccinate don’t love their children, according to Cia Parker, a banned troll.”

    She says that if you love your children you should do some research. If you research and decide to vaccinate great, you love your children. If you research and decide not to vaccinate, great, you love your children.

    I guess those parents that didn’t reseach are the ones that should be upset with the comment.

    Like

  216. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    “casual contact can be a POSSIBLE source of infection”

    The risk is so low for a new born there is no reason for the Hep B vaccine.

    Like

  217. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    She says that if you love your children you should do some research. If you research and decide to vaccinate great, you love your children. If you research and decide not to vaccinate, great, you love your children.

    Logic fail again. Nice weasel try, though.

    Like

  218. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    Agnid :
    “casual contact can be a POSSIBLE source of infection”
    The risk is so low for a new born there is no reason for the Hep B vaccine.

    I’ve asked you for evidence to support that same assertion before. Are you going to provide any?

    Like

  219. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    Look who is cherry picking and not stating the full sentence Gray Falcon.

    Here’s the end of the sentence you seem to have forgotten, “but some groups are at higher risk because of their occupation or life choices.”

    Not very honest now is it??

    Like

  220. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    Right from my source Jay….”Hepatitis B is NOT transmitted casually. It cannot be spread through sneezing, coughing, hugging or eating food prepared by someone who is infected with hepatitis B.”

    Like

  221. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    Agnid :
    Right from my source Jay….”Hepatitis B is NOT transmitted casually. It cannot be spread through sneezing, coughing, hugging or eating food prepared by someone who is infected with hepatitis B.”

    And I provided multiple sources that proves that that statement is incorrect. You can keep attaching yourself to it, but you lose credibility each time you trot it out.

    Like

  222. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Agnid :
    “casual contact can be a POSSIBLE source of infection”
    The risk is so low for a new born there is no reason for the Hep B vaccine.

    Prove it. With numbers. All you’ve given me is speculation.

    Like

  223. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    Jay and I also looked at top Hep B sites that agree with that statement and make no mention of tears or any other casual contact as high risk.

    Like

  224. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    Gray…you are not honest and not to be trusted. There is no sane reason to have a dialogue with you.

    Like

  225. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    Agnid :
    Gray…you are not honest and not to be trusted. There is no sane reason to have a dialogue with you.

    Really? Remember the “secret agent” comment? That was all you.

    Like

  226. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    Jay, I seriously doubt you are any kind of scientist whatsoever. You lack specific attention to detail which every good scientist needs to have.

    Please tell me scientist, what are your credentials?

    Like

  227. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    Gray, yes….Jay attributed traits to me that secret agents are known to have.

    Like

  228. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    I didn’t quote a sentence and leave half of it out Gray…the part that makes you look bad.

    Like

  229. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Agnid :
    Jay, I seriously doubt you are any kind of scientist whatsoever. You lack specific attention to detail which every good scientist needs to have.
    Please tell me scientist, what are your credentials?

    Agnid, if you really cared about details, you would have given us the numbers already. That is what scientists look at. They don’t just speculate, they research, they learn the numbers, they decide based on those, not just some vague feelings. That is science, not your vile methods of smearing your opponents.

    Like

  230. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    Agnid :
    I didn’t quote a sentence and leave half of it out Gray…the part that makes you look bad.

    The other half was dishonest. If she really meant “do the research”, she would have accepted that our research came up with a different conclusion than hers.

    Like

  231. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    Gray…I do not claim to be a scientist.

    Like

  232. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Gray, why are you trying to move the spotlight onto others for your dishonesty? I know nothing about K.

    Like

  233. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    “That is science, not your vile methods of smearing your opponents.” funny. I posted a comment and provided the link for the information many times. It is you and your cronies that try and beat down those that make comments here.

    Like

  234. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    Agnid :
    “casual contact can be a POSSIBLE source of infection”
    The risk is so low for a new born there is no reason for the Hep B vaccine.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/108/5/1123.abstract

    Objective. To estimate the number of hepatitis B virus (HBV) infections among US children younger than 10 years before implementation of routine childhood hepatitis B immunization.

    Methods. Incidence of HBV infection in children was modeled from existing prevalence data by means of regression analysis. Sources of data for the models included published and unpublished surveys that determined the prevalence of HBV infection in US-born children. The number of nonperinatal HBV infections in children younger than 10 years was estimated by applying these infection rates to 1991 population data according to maternal race, ethnicity, and birthplace.

    Results. Estimated annual rates of infection ranged from 24 per 100 000 in non-Asian children to 2580 per 100 000 in children of Southeast Asian immigrant mothers. These rates indicate that by the early 1990s, HBV was infecting 16 000 children who were younger than 10 years (8700 non-Asian children and 7300 Asian-American children) annually. The total estimate, not including perinatal infections, ranged from 12 000 (95% confidence interval: 5500–27 700) to 24 900 (95% confidence interval: 16 700–42 300) infections and depended on how the estimated rates were applied to the population data.

    Conclusion. Thousands of US children were infected each year with HBV before routine infant hepatitis B immunization, placing them at high risk of death from cirrhosis or hepatocellular carcinoma later in life.

    But no, there is “no risk” to newborns or infants, according to the antivax trolls, who because they don’t like the idea of vaccines would prefer to see thousands of young people become infected and DIE horrible deaths from liver failure.
    Yes 12,000 to 24,900 children infected every year, not from their mothers (ie perinatal infection), but presumably by rampant sex and drug use (I mean, it can’t be anything else, can it, according to Parker troll).
    Someone should really have a word with those parents. In my day, we got caned if we so much talked about a girl’s anatomy, or peeked at a lingerie catalog.

    Like

  235. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    10 and younger does not = new born.

    Like

  236. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    Agnid, I told you earlier, you didn’t provide anything that proved that infants didn’t need the vaccine, in fact, it proved just the opposite. When I asked you for the numbers, it would have been acceptable to say “I don’t have numbers, we need to research this”. The fact that you insulted me instead of giving me that answer says far more about you than you have about me.

    Like

  237. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    Quiz time:
    Guess what happened in 1986:
    http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0027717.g003&representation=PNG_M

    1. Recombinant Hep B vaccine introduced
    2. People stopped having sex
    3. People stopped injecting drugs.

    Answers on a postcard to Cia Parker and the Trolls (sounds like a 60s rock and roll band)

    Like

  238. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    Agnid :
    10 and younger does not = new born.

    No, these are the figures excluding the newborns. (They would look much, much, muchg worse if those were included too)But since the antivax troll argument is that kids are not at risk of infection until they are in their teens, it demonstrates the vacuity of that argument. Kids are vulnerable from contacts, not just mothers, from the time of their birth onwards. Since so many get hep B in early childhood, the earlier the vaccination can take place the better.

    Like

  239. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    Agnid :
    10 and younger does not = new born.

    So tell us then, Agnid….How did those thousands of kids get Hepatitis B exactly?

    Like

  240. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    I should note that the source Agnid is giving us lists toothbrushes as a potential vector of infection. So while casual contact may not transmit the disease, there are other ways an infant could get it.

    Like

  241. Roger
    May 30, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    About 6000 new cases of hep B are reported annually in the US in adults, about 1300 in teens, thirty infants, thirty children age 1 through 4, and seventy age five through fourteen are diagnosed with the disease. It is most dangerous in infants, and not as dangerous in older people, who will, unless they have addictions that impair their liver, usually eventually recover. It has never been a childhood disease, and those infants who get it usually get it from an infected mother. Since women are screened for it while pregnant, medical personnel can usually be prepared and prevent the baby from getting it.
    The package insert of the hep-B vaccine states that between 1 and 10% of newborns suffer a febrile reaction to the vaccine, uon which they are treated with antibiotics in intensive care for three to ten days looking for the cause of the fever. In 1999, a large research study showed that the number of newborns admitted to one NICU for fever more than doubled during the first year that hep-B vaccination was started on all newborns in their hospital, but there was no increase in infectious causes of the fevers. Linder N, Archives of Disease in Childhood: Fetal and Neonatal Edition 1999; 81(3): 206-207. Remember Julie Gerberding saying that fevers caused either by vaccination or by iinfection could trigger autism in susceptible children? She’s not correct about natural fever triggering autism, but the inflammatory reaction denoted by the fever could certainly cause autism when localized in the brain.

    Like

  242. Roger
    May 30, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Actual incidence of hep B in US before the vaccine program was average of 360 a year: Achievements in public health: hep B vacc, US, 1982 to 2002, MMWR 2002; 51(25): 549-552, 563. Number from chart at end of paper, which states that in late 1980s and early 1990s, there was about 1 case for every 100,000 kids each year in children from birth through nine years. Census Bureau said there were about 36,000,000 in that age group in 1990. That means about 360 reported cases a year in that age group.

    Like

  243. Roger
    May 30, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    Hep B: evolving epidemiology and implications for control, Margolis, Seminars in Liver Disease 1991; 11(2): 84-92. These researchers used statistical analysis and epidemiological studies to estimate that as many as 30,000 infants and children must be getting infected with hep-B every year in ways other than exposure at birth. Since many adults with hep-B denied having practiced unsafe or promiscuous sex or using illegal injected drugs, that left researchers to conclude the only explanation must be that they were infected as children but never knew it. Personally, I would lie about it too if any of these researchers asked me such questions, but it’s a shame that their prevarications had such damaging results as the hep-B for children program. There was never any evidence that there were 30,000 babies and children being infected every year with hep-B.

    Like

  244. Roger
    May 30, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    Chris, I said those were one of many in each category. I can patiently post more every time I get a chance. Those that I posted were literally just a drop in the bucket. And Lawrence, I’m sure you realize that there’s no way the hoped-for masses of people are going to line up for the dozens more new vaccines you say the mad scientists are designing for Merck and Sanofi Pasteur.

    Like

  245. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    dingo, The information you provided is for 10 years and younger, not specifically new borns which is what we have been talking about.

    Like

  246. Roger
    May 30, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Chris,
    So there are a handful of toddlers, about thirty in that age group (1-5) across the country who could conceivably transmit the virus through biting. To become infected through contact with tears, you’d have to rub the tear on an open cut or mucus membrane for it to penetrate. Now ask me if I”m worried that I or my daughter become infected that way. And even if we did, since we are not alcoholics, prostitutes, or drug users, we’d probably eventually make a complete recovery.

    Like

  247. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    The age does make a difference because of a new borns immune system etc. Much better to give a vaccination at a later date and not day one.

    Like

  248. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Gray, you are a proven liar, so I won’t be listening to you any longer.

    Like

  249. Roger
    May 30, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Jay,
    Do they not have the package inserts in your looseleaf-notebooks of background material they provide for you guys? Have you not read them?

    Like

  250. Agnid
    May 30, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    Roger, thank you for the information.

    Like

  251. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    Agnid :
    Gray, you are a proven liar, so I won’t be listening to you any longer.

    Translation: I have no way of backing out of the fact that my only source directly contradicts my point, so I’ll just insult him again and hope nobody notices my lack of integrity.

    Like

  252. Roger
    May 30, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    Laralox,
    I think maybe Agnid is Dani from last year, and whether she is or not, I’m delighted she’s here. We actually aren’t the same person, the way you and your nyms are, you evidently didn’t see my observation when we posted at the same time. We just share many of our convictions about vaccines, like hundreds more who have posted here.

    Like

  253. Lawrence
    May 30, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    @roger – still with the pharma-shill gambit?

    Personally, I look forward to better and more comprehensive vaccines?

    Why are you so pro-disease? Do you just hate people or something? Just curious….

    Perhaps you are trying to raise the stock price of hospitals, who would make more money treating those who contract VPDs (since we know in the last major measles outbreak in France about 25% of the infected required hospitalization).

    Like

  254. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    Roger :
    The package insert of the hep-B vaccine states that between 1 and 10% of newborns suffer a febrile reaction to the vaccine, uon which they are treated with antibiotics in intensive care for three to ten days looking for the cause of the fever. In 1999, a large research study showed that the number of newborns admitted to one NICU for fever more than doubled during the first year that hep-B vaccination was started on all newborns in their hospital, but there was no increase in infectious causes of the fevers. Linder N, Archives of Disease in Childhood: Fetal and Neonatal Edition 1999; 81(3): 206-207.

    Except the “large research study” you cite indicates that Hepatitis B vaccine caused a febrile response in only 0.32% of recipients.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1721007/
    That’s quite a bit different to your scare figure of “between 1 and 10%”.

    Oh, and by the way, kids with fever are NOT admitted to intensive care to investigate it. Don’t be idiotic.

    Like

  255. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Agnid :
    dingo, The information you provided is for 10 years and younger, not specifically new borns which is what we have been talking about.

    So how were they infected Agnid?

    Like

  256. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Agnid :
    The age does make a difference because of a new borns immune system etc. Much better to give a vaccination at a later date and not day one.

    But it takes 6 months for a primary vaccination course to generate adequate immunity. The later you leave it, the more of those 1 yr olds will be having drug injection parties and wild sex. Sooner the better, I say.

    Like

  257. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    Roger :
    Jay,
    Do they not have the package inserts in your looseleaf-notebooks of background material they provide for you guys? Have you not read them?

    I get an ipad, preloaded with all the goodies.
    Can’t you even keep up with the times? Do you think these pharma companies are cheapskates or something? Where do you thinbk they put their trillions of vaccine profits?

    Like

  258. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    Roger :Now ask me if I”m worried that I or my daughter become infected that way. And even if we did, since we are not alcoholics, prostitutes, or drug users, we’d probably eventually make a complete recovery.

    Well we know that of infants chronically infected with Hep B, 25% will die from it.
    Usually as young adults, from liver failure or hepatocellular carcinoma.
    Have you seen someone die from these Roger?
    I have, many times.
    Believe me, if that happened to your daughter she would not be thanking you for your apathy.

    Like

  259. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    Hep B facts:

    Worldwide, two billion people have been infected with hepatitis B virus (HBV), 360 million have chronic infection, and 600,000 die each year from HBV-related liver disease or hepatocellular carcinoma. This comprehensive review of hepatitis B epidemiology and vaccines focuses on definitive and influential studies and highlights current trends, policies, and directions. HBV can be transmitted vertically, through sexual or household contact, or by unsafe injections, but chronic infections acquired during infancy or childhood account for a disproportionately large share of worldwide morbidity and mortality. Vaccination against HBV infection can be started at birth and provides long-term protection against infection in more than 90% of healthy people. In the 1990s, many industrialized countries and a few less-developed countries implemented universal hepatitis B immunization and experienced measurable reductions in HBV-related disease. For example, in Taiwan, the prevalence of chronic infection in children declined by more than 90%.

    http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/1/112.full

    Like

  260. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    Agnid:

    Chris, so you are saying 3000 new borns die each year from Hep B? I don’t believe it.

    Don’t go near any open flames with that strawman argument. Now, let me make it more clear for you:

    1: Three thousand each year die from chronic liver conditions due to chronic hepatitis b.

    2: Young children who get infected with HepB have a much higher chance of chronic hepatitis b.

    3: Since you are adverse to children getting the vaccine (and the newborn one is the first of three doses), you need to provide the PubMed indexed study showing the vaccine causes harm that equals the number of annual deaths from chronic hepatitis b.

    Roger, nice use of Empty Edict. So can you provide the actual PMID of the study that shows the vaccine causes harm equal to three thousand deaths?

    Like

  261. dingo199
    May 30, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    Experience in Hawaii of infant vaccination:
    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/118/4/1403.full

    Previously, in 1989, a serologic survey among Hawaii school children in grades 1 to 3 indicated that 1.6% had chronic hepatitis B virus infection, and 2.1% had resolved infection……
    The incidence of symptomatic acute hepatitis B in Hawaii children and adolescents aged ≤19 years decreased from 4.5 cases per 100000 in 1990 to 0.0 during 2002–2004. To date, the last reported case in a child aged <15 years in Hawaii occurred in 1996.

    What a result!
    Before Hepatitis B vaccination was coincidentally introduced, Hawaiin kids were having wild sex parties and injecting drugs, giving each other Hep B.
    Quite entirely coincidental with vaccination implementation, they all started to behave. maybe they got religion or something? Since 1996 not a single one has slipped up.
    Brilliant! All hail Jesus!
    And quite a wonderful example of how irrelevant the vaccine was, I guess.

    Like

  262. novalox
    May 30, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    @agnid

    Again, why should we believe a proven liar and troll like you? You’ve had multiple chances to provide evidence, have repeatedly failed to do so, and have instead hurled invective and insult instead.

    So, unless you provide some actual evidence, I’ll just consider your posts as the ravings of a another failed troll spewing his/her/its usual lies.

    @roger

    Again, considering that you using sockpuppets again, I do appreciate that you must assume that I am a sockpuppet (which I am not), but I do appreciate that you must consider me in the same class as Lara.

    Anyways, [citation needed] for your assertions within 3 posts, or we can assume that you are here just to troll.

    Like

  263. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 8:41 pm

    Roger:

    Actual incidence of hep B in US before the vaccine program was average of 360 a year: Achievements in public health: hep B vacc, US, 1982 to 2002, MMWR 2002; 51(25): 549-552, 563.

    Here is the URL:
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5125a3.htm

    The first paragraph includes this sentence: “Before 1982, an estimated 200,000–300,000 persons in the United States were infected annually with HBV, including approximately 20,000 children (1).”

    That is lots more than 360. No where in that document does “average” or “360” appear. The chart is for “acute hepatitis b.” This means they know the child had it and was treated. The problem is that you don’t find out that a child has chronic hepatitis b until they show symptoms long after they have been infected.

    For example this young woman: http://www.bgladd.com/1in3/

    Some samples:

    One inexplicable medical mystery surfaced during her treatment for the fall; a blood test came back positive for hepatitis. We were perplexed; she was (and remained) asymptomatic. She vehemently denied having had any involvement with IV dope– among the doctor’s most plausible speculations, given the inventory of dissolute extracurricular pursuits she had admitted to.

    Dr. Wren also informed us that Sissy was positive for hepatitis-B (HBV), that it was likely congenital– passed on to her by her mother (my ex-wife)– and that it had surely caused her cancer. Given the HCC latency period of 20-30 years, any other explanation– such as picking up HBV during adolescence that could lead to cancer a mere decade hence– was highly unlikely.

    Yes, the author tested positive for HBV. He thought he had recovered from a HepA a year before his daughter was born, but it turned out to be the other hepatitis.

    Now either give the PubMed indexed study that shows the vaccine causes damage equal to the three thousand annual deaths or tell us a better and proven way to prevent hepatitis b infections in children, even if one parent has an unknown HBV infection.

    Like

  264. jkanta
    May 30, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    Agnid :
    The age does make a difference because of a new borns immune system etc. Much better to give a vaccination at a later date and not day one.

    And you have the audacity to call someone else a liar? You have made assertions like this one without any evidence support it. You are nothing but a liar, Agnid.

    And screw you, Roger. The inserts aren’t as valid as up to date research.

    Like

  265. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    Jay Kanta, try to behave a bit better than the sock puppets. Of course it has been explained to Roger multiple times that inserts are lawyer written CYA bits that list stuff that has been reported, but that it does not mean it is reality. Plus they do not show the relative risk.

    I am trying to get data on the relative risk of the vaccine versus the disease. We know that the chronic version of the disease kills three thousand in the USA every year. The vaccine is made by having baker yeast produce certain viral proteins, so it is not even the actual virus.

    The claim that the vaccine is harmful compared to the disease is extraordinary, therefore the evidence to prove that claim needs to extraordinary. Essentially something lots more substantial than lawyer written inserts or a few scattered case reports.

    Like

  266. Dan
    May 30, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    OK, Chris, look up how many of those 3,000 were alcoholics or drug addicts. Look up how many of them were children. I don’t think anything was listed on the PIs that they didn’t have to include, it makes them look bad enough as it is. Most people with hep-B don’t have the chronic form, but the acute form which is usually gone in six months. Few scattered case reports? Anyone who believes that deserves what they get. Thousands of people sued the French government for MS and other neurological conditions resulting from the requirement of the hep-B vaccine for school and some occupations. And the French government took it off the required schedule. Everybody better look it up before they get the vax. And read the accounts of vaccine-damaged families on Thinktwice.com, and then see who you believe.

    Like

  267. Dan
    May 30, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    Up to date pharma-pay-offs you mean, J?

    Like

  268. Jay Kanta
    May 30, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    Sure, Dan. Anecdotes are “sciency”, right?

    You made a lot of assertions based on zero evidence. You should be ashamed, but like any anti-vaxxer, you won’t be.

    Like

  269. Gray Falcon
    May 30, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    Dan :
    Up to date pharma-pay-offs you mean, J?

    Leveling false accusations against your opponents only marks you as a dishonest man.

    Like

  270. Chris
    May 30, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    Dan:

    Most people with hep-B don’t have the chronic form, but the acute form which is usually gone in six months.

    Go back to where I first used the number and click on the link called “CDC Statistics.” Scroll down the page to the table with the bright green header. See that is has separate lines for “acute hepatitis”, and then the one line for “Annual Number of Chronic Liver Disease Deaths associated with Viral Hepatitis.” What important word is in that label?

    Now the label has a little “e” superscript. Here is the note it goes to:

    e. Annual Number of Chronic Liver Disease Deaths associated with Viral Hepatitis:
    HBV: Vogt TM et al. Hepatitis B mortality in the United States, 1990–2004. Paper presented at 45th Annual Meeting of the Infectious Disease Society of America; October 4–7, 2007;San Diego, CA. and Manos MM et al. Limitations of conventionally derived chronic liver disease mortality rates: results of a comprehensive assessment. Hepatology 2008;47:1150-7.

    Now, where is that evidence that the vaccine causes more damage then the three thousand annual deaths from chronic hepatitis b? By the way, legal cases are not scientific evidence.

    Like

  271. novalox
    May 31, 2013 at 1:57 am

    @dan

    You do know that using the pharma shill gambit implies that you have no argument and that you have no actual evidence, right?

    Like

  272. Valentina
    May 31, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Chris,
    You need to tell how many babies and children die of hep-B. Most of them will never at any point in their lives be in danger of contracting hep-B. Those who make risky lifestyle choices as adults which put them in danger of HBV as well as many other dangers to their lives and health should remain free to get or decline the vaccine. Between July 1990 and the end of 1998, a total of 17,497 cases of injuries, hospitalizations, and daths related to the HBV had been reported to the VAERS. That figure included 73 deaths in children under 14, and 146 deaths in people who had gotten just the HBV, without other vaccines. (from Dr. Philip Incao’s testimony before Ohio House of Representatives, March 1, 1999.) Another source states that there were 24,775 reports of adverse reactions between July 1, 1990, and Oct. 31, 1998, but this higher number included less serious reactions than those counted by Dr. Incao. In 1996, there were 872 reported serious adverse reactions in children under 14: 658 occurred after HBV combined with other vaccines and 214 after the HBV alone. Of those 872 children, 48 died; 35 who received HBV with other vaccines and 13 who got HBV alone. The total number of cases of the disease in 1996 in children under 14 was 279, not deaths, just diagnosed cases, which usually do not lead to death. The total number of serious adverse events caused in that year by that vaccine was 872, with 48 deaths, in the same age group. Dr. Incao concluded in his testimony before the state congress that the risks of the vaccine far outweighed its advantages.

    Like

  273. Jay Kanta
    May 31, 2013 at 11:51 am

    @Ms. Parker/Valentina: “Between July 1990 and the end of 1998, a total of 17,497 cases of injuries, hospitalizations, and daths related to the HBV had been reported to the VAERS.”

    How many of those cases were verified to be from the vaccine?

    Dumpster diving into VAERS without a lifejacket, and I don’t think you know how to swim, Ms. Parker.

    Like

  274. Jay Kanta
    May 31, 2013 at 11:53 am

    The tell was in your selfish description of those who get Hep-B, Ms. Parker:

    Those who make risky lifestyle choices as adults which put them in danger of HBV as well as many other dangers to their lives and health should remain free to get or decline the vaccine.

    Stop with the sockpuppetry.

    Like

  275. dingo199
    May 31, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Valentina :Chris,Between July 1990 and the end of 1998, a total of 17,497 cases of injuries, hospitalizations, and daths related to the HBV had been reported to the VAERS. That figure included 73 deaths in children under 14, and 146 deaths in people who had gotten just the HBV, without other vaccines. (from Dr. Philip Incao’s testimony before Ohio House of Representatives, March 1, 1999.) Another source states that there were 24,775 reports of adverse reactions between July 1, 1990, and Oct. 31, 1998, but this higher number included less serious reactions than those counted by Dr. Incao.

    1. You do know that an independent review of VAERS reports only found 3% of reports of vaccine reactions were definitely due to the vaccine, don’t you?
    2. Would that be the same Philip Incao, “holistic” practitioner, antivaccinationist and AIDS denialist, whose inaction/improper management of a child with AIDS led to her death? Can’t really be anyone else.
    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/christine-maggiore-and-eliza-jane-scovill-living-and-dying-with-hivaids-denialism/

    Like

  276. Chris
    May 31, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    Ms. Parker, stop with the sock puppets. I have already told you multiple times that VAERS is just raw data that has not been verified.

    Seriously, you have in the past accomplished much academically. You have a PhD in Spanish and a law degree. Something has happened to you that has affected your thinking, and it was not caused by any vaccine. It is something that happens to about 1% of the population. Men often start showing symptoms in late teens and early twenties, and women closer to 30s/40s. It happened to a loved one in our family. Please get help, if not for yourself, for your family. Because I know from personal experience it is very trying for the family, especially since the family member refused to get proper help.

    You live in a college town with a university that provides good services. Call them. Please.

    Like

  277. E.
    May 31, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    So, you tell me. Since sudden onset of any of many serious neurological or other systemic damage shortly after receipt of a vaccine does not constitute evidence of a causal link in the opinion of most medical professionals, could you tell me what evidence of harm would be considered that of a causal link? And of course I understand that even if tens of thousands of people report similar kinds of damage shortly after a vaccine, that is still not evidence worthy of any consideration of a causal link. So what would be?

    Like

  278. E.
    May 31, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    Dr. Incao is an M.D., and was invited to give testimony before the Ohio state legislature because of his many years of experience and expertise. Your attempting to trash him and his statistics says more about you than him.

    Like

  279. Jay Kanta
    May 31, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    No, it doesn’t Ms. Parker. Your use of him as a source says a lot about you. Who exactly invited Dr. Incao to give his testimony? Rep. Barton, the lead clown of the anti-vax legislation?

    Like

  280. Gray Falcon
    May 31, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    Ms. Parker: If someone came down with a severe flu after reading one of your comments, would that be proof that you incorporated black magic into your writing?

    Like

  281. May 31, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    @Ms. Parker doesn’t seem to know the meaning of the words “proof” or “evidence.”

    Like

  282. dingo199
    May 31, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    E. :
    Dr. Incao is an M.D., and was invited to give testimony before the Ohio state legislature because of his many years of experience and expertise. Your attempting to trash him and his statistics says more about you than him.

    Ignacio may have many “years of experience and expertise”. Unfortunately it appears that neither knowledge about infections nor vaccinations seem to qualify. You know what is really ironic?

    Eliza Jane Scoville, the little innocent girl with AIDS who was infected by her mother Christine Maggiore (having refused to take antiretrovitrals in pregnancy, which would have prevented the infection, and who insisted on breastfeeding EJ, guaranteeing she would be infected) died from pneumocystis pneumonia.
    In an attempt to deny HIV was the problem and assert her child did not have AIDS, Christine contrived to say EJ died of a reaction to amoxicillin she got for a bacterial ear infection.

    Now here is the really jaw-dropping part. Philip Ignacio was EJ’s “holistic” doctor. EJ was of course unvaccinated, never having had pneumococcal vaccine or HiB vaccine. Ignacio was consulted about EJ when she was dying of AIDS, and decided she had a bacterial otitis media. He gave her amoxicillin, instead of rushing her to hospital for life-saving anti-pneumocystis meds.

    Let’s for a moment suspend disbelief and agree with the scenario painted by EJ’s family – that she never had AIDS. But assuming this narrative is true, then Ignacio (who was not licensed to treat patients in California anyway) is the one responsible for her death anyway. If EJ had been vaccinated then the risk of otitis media would have approached zero (the 2 primary causes are pneumococcus or haemophilus infection). And he (illegally) prescribed the drug that supposedly killed EJ (amoxicillin).

    Like

  283. E.
    May 31, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    J,
    Are you a rapper? Is that where they found you? Rep. Dan Burton is a national representative from Indiana, who has vaccine-damaged grandchildren, which, of course, makes him a butt for your insults. He would not have been responsible for inviting Dr. Incao to testify before the Ohio legislature.

    Dingo,
    Anecdotal report. I do not believe that Dr. Incao made anything but an educated diagnosis and prescription for treatment. You must be aware that medical mistakes, if such it was, are a leading cause of death, at least in the U.S. At least he does not try to make everyone take every available vax without screening and careful consideraton of a patient’s genetic makeup and environmental influences, denying responsibility for the ensuing injuries and deaths.
    Lawrence,
    I’m all ears. You say that severe injury or death from vaccines happens once in a million doses, or patients, or something. How can you tell that the vaccine caused the injury or death? In these one in a million occurrences, what is it that proves the connection in those cases that is thrown out when it happens all the other times?

    Like

  284. Narad
    May 31, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    Dr. Incao is an M.D., and was invited to give testimony before the Ohio state legislature because of his many years of experience and expertise.

    Incao did not “give testimony before” anything, he wrote a letter.

    Like

  285. Jay Kanta
    May 31, 2013 at 11:18 pm

    Rep. Dan Burton is a national representative from Indiana, who has vaccine-damaged grandchildren, which, of course, makes him a butt for your insults.

    There is no proof that they were injured by vaccines, that is just Rep. Burton’s claim. He is a worthless hack that didn’t deserve his seat or the attention that he garnered with the recent autism hearings. The fact that he brought in Blaylock is indicative of his inability to determine the credibility of sources.

    Now stop making new sockpuppets and just leave.

    Like

  286. Chris
    May 31, 2013 at 11:52 pm

    Ms. Parker, it is not normal behavior to come back with several different usernames, and to repeat things that you have told over and over and over again are untrue. It reminds me of the manic stage of a family relative. Though she often spent it obsessively recording movies from the cable channels onto DVDs. When we cleared out her estate there were well over a thousand, and it would take someone years to watch them.

    Seriously, Ms. Parker, please get help. If not for yourself, do it for your family.

    Like

  287. dingo199
    June 1, 2013 at 4:49 am

    E. :

    Dingo,
    Anecdotal report. I do not believe that Dr. Incao made anything but an educated diagnosis and prescription for treatment.

    I hadn’t realized you were so charitable when encountering iatrogenic deaths, Ms Parker. Especially when the doctor is not even licensed to prescribe.
    At least we know you will always be forgiving of other doctors’ mistakes…you wouldn’t dare be anything but consistent now, would you.

    Child dies after an unlicensed doctor gives a vaccine?
    Cia’s response: “Oh that’s OK, all doctors can make mistakes. They do it all the time. Move along now, nothing to see here folks”

    Like

  288. dingo199
    June 1, 2013 at 4:59 am

    Sorry to go further off topic, but I see that Dr Incao does not really believe in virus pathology.

    Viruses are special toxic crystalloid elements which originate from
    stressed cells. A stressed cell may die in the process of detoxifying itself through the
    excretion of viruses. Such a cell dies from the stress, not from the viruses.

    http://philipincao.crestonecolorado.com/index_htm_files/Viruses%20II.pdf
    I also fail to find any reference anywhere to indicate Dr Incao carries out genetic screening before anyone is vaccinated, like Cia Parker says he does. Perhaps you could link us to this information, Cia?

    Like

  289. June 1, 2013 at 7:58 am

    @Ms. Parker – see, unlike you, we’ve provided links to multiple upon multiple sources detailing the efficacy and safety profiles of vaccines. There are known reactions & rate of reactions because they are actually tracked and investigated…..so, where again is your proof?

    I also agree with Chris, your behavior is getting more erratic & nonsensical….

    Like

  290. E.
    June 1, 2013 at 1:50 pm


    or www. ageofautism.com/2013/05/see-how-mercury-triggered-age-of-autism-film
    OK, Law, watch the video posted on Youtube by AoA, also available on their site, on How Mercury Caused the Age of Autism.

    Like

  291. Jay Kanta
    June 1, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Youtube, where all the best science is done? And Age of Autism? Come on, peer-reviewed evidence, Ms. Parker, not this conspiracy theory tripe.

    Like

  292. Chris
    June 1, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Ms. Parker, what vaccine in the present American pediatric schedule is only available with thimerosal? Again, do not include influenza since half of those approved for children do not have thimerosal.

    By the way, you passed the bar to practice law in 1980, and your daughter was born in 2000. Don’t you think maternal age may be a factor? Or is there some genetic component related to your recent erratic behavior (over a half dozen sock puppets in just a couple of days)?

    Like

  293. June 1, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    @Ms. Parker – I’m extremely disappointed with you. Taking from marching orders from Blaxill & Olmsted again, reposting that idiotic video wherever you can?

    Again, where is your “proof?” I mean real, scientific proof, of anything you assert?

    Like

  294. dingo199
    June 1, 2013 at 5:09 pm


    Hey look! I can do that too!
    Nothing beats a good Aussie.

    Like

  295. June 1, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    @Dingo – good on Australia getting all over the AVN, those guys are full-on nutjobs.

    Like

  296. E.
    June 1, 2013 at 10:46 pm

    I don’t know, have any studies been done on how maternal age causes encephalitic screaming for four days within the classic time frame for vaccine reactions? Gee, I thought it was just a disease process or a vaccine. And if you watched the video you’d learn something. No, never mind, that might put you into a moral quandary.

    Like

  297. E.
    June 1, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    Convulsions from flu vaccine cause its suspension in Australia By Big Battlefield Thunder

    Like

  298. novalox
    June 1, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    @ e. (ms parker)

    Why should we believe you, a proven liar, sockpuppeter, and troll?

    You’ve had plenty of chances to provide actual evidence, and instead, you resort to youtube videos and insults, which is not even close to actual evidence.

    So again, why should we believe you.

    Of course, we can take your persistent refusal of actual evidence as an admission that you have nothing and that your argument has not merit at all.

    Like

  299. Chris
    June 1, 2013 at 11:28 pm

    Ms. Parker, that was not a vaccine used in the USA. Again, why have you not answered the question I posted on comment #292. I have asked you that several times to several of your sock puppets.

    Again, your behavior is not normal. Please get help. If not for yourself, but for your family. What you have is something that affects many intelligent people, and there are those trained to help. It is fortunate that you live in a college town with very qualified to deal with your issues.

    Like

  300. Chris
    June 1, 2013 at 11:54 pm

    Ms. Parker, I have lived through an infant screaming for days. It was before he got any vaccines. It happens, get over it.

    Perhaps your patience was tested due to the fact you were at least ten years older than me when I had my first kid. You had a career where you had more control, but none with a screaming baby. I know that I was frustrated, but I found other ways to deal.

    And yes, I found the constant crying trying. But I was glad the baby was home after spending a week in the hospital after having real seizures. I just had to remember to give him his phenobarbital twice a day to prevent more seizures. I was really tempted to throw a pot of hot water on him has he screamed, but I took a breath and gave myself a timeout.

    I was frustrated because the other new moms would not deal with me because I had a kid with medical issues and that I had a non-traditional career before (aerospace engineer). I even got a phone call from one of the mom/tot groups to stop talking about his medical issues and therapy sessions. I was lonely, and frustrated. This is over a decade before you had your child, and there was no Internet.

    No, Ms. Parker, you are not unique. You are not the first or only successful career woman to have a child with a disability. I know of another engineer who tried to go back to work, but her daughter’s special needs needed her more. I knew an eye surgeon who quit working to deal with her autistic son (he went to school with my kid, a very sweet boy).

    My oldest is close to his mid-20s. This week he put some Costco groceries away without being asked. This is a big step for him. He also made a community college advising appointment without any kind of reminder. He has a developmental delay, not a stasis. While he may always have to live with us (our younger son has noted he will have to take care of his brother), he is progressing. All is not lost.

    And no, your behavior is not normal. And your conclusions are nonsensical. Put your intelligence to work and read some real science. Or get real psychiatric help.

    Like

  301. dingo199
    June 2, 2013 at 6:41 am

    E. :
    I don’t know, have any studies been done on how maternal age causes encephalitic screaming for four days within the classic time frame for vaccine reactions?

    Gee, I don’t know, have any studies been done on mothers who neglect their infant’s screaming for 4 days and never even call a doctor? There must be some research done on child abuse somewhere that could serve as a reference point?

    Like

  302. Ella
    June 2, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Dingo,
    You weren’t around last year when we went through this then. I sat up with my baby in my arms all night, I was not going to leave her to scream alone. On one of the four nights I was so overcome by exhaustion that I lay down on my bed with my baby on my stomach, telling myself I’d just shut my eyes for a few seconds and then sit up with her in the rocking chair again, but, predictably enough, after having not slept at all for several days, I fell asleep. My mother called the pediatrician, who asked if the screaming were for more than three hours a day, so he could put it down to colic. She told him that it was for much, much longer than that, and he said nothing, but then went on to talk about colic. The screaming was for sixteeen to eighteen hours a day for four days and nights, she was born Friday morning, May 5, at 7:30 a.m. I exclaimed in horror when they told me Saturday morning they had given her the hep-B shot without informing me or asking permission, at no point did I sign a consent form, and I said I had made a special trip to the pediatrician only to ask him that he not let her get that shot, as I had read it often caused autism. The nurse was very annoyed, and said not to worry if I didn’t want her protected from hep-B, since she would need the whole series to get protection (from this sexually-transmitted disease that I did not have and she would not be exposed to). She did not give me the sheet with vaccine reactions to be on the lookout for, which is required by law to be given to the parents. Encephalitic reactions to that vaccine usually start between three and five days after the vax: she started screaming Tuesday evening, May 9. The pediatrician told us about colic, which he said wasn’t a real condition anyway. Judy Converse said they tried to dismiss her son Ben’s screaming reaction as colic, but a nurse said, “Funny, colic doesn’t happen in the first week, never before the third week, it follows the rule of three.” And colic doesn’t interfere with feeding, but my baby stopped eating because of the pain, and lost one pound two ounces in the first two days of the screaming. At that time, so much closer to the beginning of the autism epidemic, when people weren’t as aware of the signs and frequency of vaccine reaction, I was unaware that within a few years they’d start putting in child care books that constant, inconsolable, and/or high-pitched screaming was the hallmark of encephalitis, and if it went on longer than three hours, you should rush the child to the ER. Although, since they have no effective treatment for encephalitis, especially in newborns, it would be unlikely to do much if any good, but it would set up your future case in Vaccine Court to have it on record. My mother, who held my baby for several hours on two of the four nights of screaming, died last month, but a friend who visited on Saturday says she remembers the horrible, endless screaming. You probably remember the rest, how she missed all her language milestones. I unwisely permitted her to get the DTaP at 2, 4, and 6 months, she caught pertussis anyway at 8 months and gave it to me. She had started saying two words, uh for up and uff for dog, but those words were erased forever as soon as she got the DTaP booster at 18 months, and she was diagnosed with autism two months later, at 20 months. At 34 months, she started saying repeated baby syllables like baba, tata, and so on, and I did endless calculations on how long it would take her to catch up, but so far she still hasn’t, and can’t tell you what happened to her at school (in an autism program) or converse at all.

    Like

  303. Ella
    June 2, 2013 at 11:33 am

    And Chris, women have always had babies into middle-age, and never until the 1930s did any of them get autism. Pseudo-scientific studies now have said that it’s not the age of the mother, but the age of the father, that can cause autism, that overweight, living close to the highway, watching Teletubbies on T.V. can all cause autism, red herrings dragged around to divert attention from the real major cause, vaccines, whether with or without mercury etc.

    Like

  304. Chris
    June 2, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Ms. Parker, women who have children later in life have children with more issues. And several did get Down Syndrome, and others were hidden away in asylums. In the 1930s almost every major city had an institution for the feeble minded. That is where they housed the children who were different, well up through the 1970s.

    And when my kid had seizures I called 911. You should have called a doctor if your child was screaming for most of the day. I do not understand how someone can go on and on on how something terrible happened to their child when they never sought medical help. I have pages upon pages of medical notes from the child neurologist. Do you have something similar?

    Also your manic behavior here is an indication that there are other genetic factors. You see, it is not normal to type long screeds and spend days replying in a rapid fire pace with several identities. It is the same behavior that got our relative fired (nasty emails), and caused shopping binges that cluttered her house (the ambulance crew had to wind through it carrying the gurney).

    You need to get real help, if not for yourself, but for your family. Do it before someone has to call 911 for you.

    Like

  305. Jay Kanta
    June 2, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    So many lies, so many problems with everything that Ms. Parker’s sockpuppets are saying.

    What a pathetic person.

    I exclaimed in horror when they told me Saturday morning they had given her the hep-B shot without informing me or asking permission, at no point did I sign a consent form, and I said I had made a special trip to the pediatrician only to ask him that he not let her get that shot, as I had read it often caused autism.

    So even before the baby was born, Ms. Parker was conditioned against vaccines by misinformation. There was never a credible link between HepB vaccine and autism. There was a simple possibility of encephalitis from it, one that has been recognized for a long time. Ms. Parker has either manipulated her own memories (quite possible) so she doesn’t think she’s lying, or she’s just lying outright in order to get attention and/or scare other parents away from vaccinations on nothing more than her anecdotes and claims.

    Like

  306. June 2, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    I’m frankly shocked that a mother would allow their child to cry, uncontrollably, for days without going to the ER…….that’s why I doubt the veracity of her claims (well, among many, many other reasons).

    Like

  307. novalox
    June 2, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Just another counterpoint to ms. parker’s lies and outright information:

    I used to work at a MR/DD facility, one that had been open since the 1800s. The people there said that back then, people who were considered weird, “idiotic”, or not within societal norms would be put there. This included patients who would today be considered autistic, but back in those times, they considered them to be “idiots” or “dumb”, and grouped them in with other individuals with mental problems.

    Note that when this facility opened and was operating in the 1800s, vaccines had not been available widespread, so ms. parker’s assertions to the contrary are either a lie of omission or a lie or active deceit. Judging by her comments here and at other webpages, I would strongly consider the latter.

    Like

  308. novalox
    June 2, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    *misinformation

    Like

  309. dingo199
    June 2, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    Ella :
    Dingo,
    You weren’t around last year when we went through this then. I sat up with my baby in my arms all night, I was not going to leave her to scream alone.

    I am sorry your child has neurological problems, Cia, but your delusion that this was the result of Hepatitis B vaccine encephalitis is worrying. Not only is your narrative full of holes and likely embellished with recall bias, but even were the story true it is not the tale of neonatal encephalitis.

    The idea that your child might have “encephalitis” (a very serious and often fatal condition), and you were just accepting to nurse her at home speaks of a massive failure to act in her best interests.

    For argument’s sake, let’s assume she did have encephalitis. What if it were herpetic encephalitis? The failure to get her hospital care is almost criminally negligent IMO. If I was consulted about a 4 day old infant with possible encephalitis, my advice would be a “blues and twos” mad rush to ER after dialling 911, followed by immediate treatment with IV aciclovir to cover viral encephalitis while further essential tests are run such as CT/MRI, lumbar puncture, blood work.

    None of which happened with you and yours. Your tale is screaming “fake” at me, waving about 50 red flags at the same time I am afraid. Either the illness was nowhere as severe as you are making out, or it is all the result of false memory syndrome.

    Like

  310. dingo199
    June 2, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    Cia, I am familiar with your story from other sites actually, and have encountered it more often than I actually care to. Your retelling it doesn’t make it any more plausible.

    Looking back I can see how a year ago you discussed the case here, and seem to set store by Dr Bob Sear’s (evidence-free) opinion that screaming itself can lead to encephalitis/encephalopathy, and I see that Chris cited several studies demonstrating there was no link between vaccines and encephalitis as you indicate.

    I know of only one vaccine that can definitely cause it – MMR (the measles component, which can result in an inclusion body encephalitis in 1 in a million vaccinatin shots). There is no credible evidence for hepatitis B causing the problem. You would have done well to let some of the good advice given before to sink in, and to have taken heed of those critical thinking videos as a lesson in how easy it is to fool yourself. Alas you have learned nothing.

    Like

  311. Chris
    June 2, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    Dingo:

    The idea that your child might have “encephalitis” (a very serious and often fatal condition), and you were just accepting to nurse her at home speaks of a massive failure to act in her best interests.

    What is worse is that the good thing about living in a college town is that you are near very good inexpensive services from a real medical school. This means that you do not have to go far to find a qualified neurologist.

    (I was happy to use the inexpensive speech and language services provided by speech/language therapy students at my local university. And, yes, my son was a patient many times at two of the hospitals run by the local state university’s medical school.)

    By the way, the HepB vaccine is made by creating certain viral proteins in bread yeast. It is just a few proteins, and not the actual virus. There is no way it could cause a viral symptom.

    Like

  312. Diana
    June 4, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Dingo,
    At the time I had no idea that the screaming might be encephalitis. I sat rocking her thinking if maybe the estimation of her due date had been wrong, and that she was developmentally already in her third week rather than her first, and that maybe the screaming all night was a severe case of colic. Her estimated due date had been May 3, my labor started in the evening of May 4, and she was born at 7:30 a.m. May 5, weighing seven pounds two point two ounces. There was never any reason to believe that she was born past her due date, I was just sitting trying to make sense of it. I thought I had read about how new parents didn’t get any sleep, and tried to adust to the idea that screaming all night for four nights was normal, and this was my first trial as a new parent, one that I had to meet with fortitude and love. And I did. I had read in all my child care books about colic, and, like the doctor, couldn’t think of any other explanation. As I said, the nurse didn’t give me a sheet of vaccine reactions to look out for, and I had skimmed over those sections in my reading as too depressing to think about. I thought that by telling the doctor a month before that I didn’t want her to get that shot I had taken care of the problem of possible vaccine reactions. That was thirteen years ago, I was stupid and uninformed, and it didn’t even enter my mind at that time that the horrible screaming for so long might be encephalitis.

    And Chris, the Merck Manual says in its definition of encephalitis that it is due to: “A virus or vaccine triggers a reaction that makes the immune system attack brain tissue (an autoimmune reaction).” Anything can cause an immune reaction, not necessarily virus particles. The hep B vaccine has the surface antigens of the hep B protein integrated into the DNA of some yeast cells cultured in a solution of soy, sugar, amino acids, and minerals: also 250 mcg aluminum, and formaldehyde. The surface antigens are, by nature, antigenic or allergy-provoking, and yeast, soy, aluminum, and formaldehyde are all also capable of provoking allergic reactions. I put an Amazon review up for Judy Converse’s book When Your Doctor is Wrong: the Hep B Vaccine and Autism. I saw that several other moms had put on reviews saying that the same thing had happened to their babies, the extremely prolonged, inconsolable screaming, and they were later diagnosed with autism. I am being very sober and non-confrontational now, but I am sure that it will eventually be recognized that this reaction is not uncommon, up until now usually passing unrecognized at the time, and that it can be extremely devastating in its aftermath.

    Like

  313. Jay Kanta
    June 4, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    And Ms. Parker’s refusal to listen to scientists and doctors continues while her sockpuppetry doesn’t stop.

    Pulp books are not science, Ms. Parker. They are not peer-reviewed, they are not credible. You are horribly misinformed, undereducated and full of nothing but useless misinformation and presupposition.

    Like

  314. June 4, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    @Ms. Parker – if my child had been screaming, uncontrollably for any extended length of time, my first reaction isn’t to sit and stare at the ceiling, as you seem to have done. It would be to get to the ER & figure out exactly what was wrong……and since you didn’t you don’t have any clue if your child had encephalitis or not, because you “self-diagnosed.”

    Again, your story has never made any sense, doesn’t make sense now and will never make any sense in the future. Just stop with the sock puppets and go away – because you aren’t adding a shred of anything to this discussion.

    Like

  315. Chris
    June 4, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Ms. Parker, if you did not have your child by a neurologist, then it is not encephalitis. You cannot self-diagnose brain inflammation. I have no respect for someone who does not get real medical help if the child had real symptoms, like constant screaming.

    The HepB vaccine does not have any virus, just some proteins.

    Like

  316. dingo199
    June 4, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    Here is hoping Ms Parker didn’t really “have her child by a neurologist”
    😉
    Unfortunate typo Chris!

    We know several things from your tale, Cia.
    1. You were biased against the Hep B vaccine from the get go, because you were (mistakenly) concerned about possible neurological side effects.
    2. Your newborn baby cried inconsolably 4 days post vaccination.
    3. At some point (around 18 months of age) she started showing signs consistent with autism, and was diagnosed age 20 months.
    4. You retrospectively “self-diagnosed” that your baby had brain damage from Hep B vaccine after birth, having never considered the possibility before, and never thinking that there was anything seriously wrong with her during or following the crying episode.

    Many studies have refuted any link with encephalitis from autoimmune inflammation from Hep B vaccination.

    Like

  317. Chris
    June 4, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    Ooops, “have your child seen by a neurologist.”

    Like

  318. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    Allergic reaction to any vaccine can cause encephalitis with brain swelling. Encephalitis was included as one of the vaccine injuries to be compensated for under the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act

    Like

  319. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 8:41 pm

    The hepatitis B vaccine is an assault on a newborns developing neurological and immune system. Vaccines are supposed to be making us healthier, however, in twenty-five years of nursing I have never seen so many damaged, sick kids. Something very, very wrong is happening to our children. The census of ill children treated in our health rooms each day has increased by 2000% in 10 years.

    Like

  320. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    We are all now faced with a moral dilemma: will we protect the “sacred cow of conventional vaccine philosophy” or will we stand up and speak out for the “health and well being of innocent children”? We choose children. We wonder, which will our government choose?

    Like

  321. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    Because the hepatitis B vaccine was developed for those at risk of disease, including IV drug users and sexually promiscuous individuals, efforts to require administration of the vaccine to most, if not all of the U.S. population is very controversial. The increasing number of adverse reaction reports connected with this vaccine exacerbates the controversy. The controversy stems to a great extent from our lack of understanding of the mechanisms of the immune response to the hepatitis B surface antigen and lack of long term follow-up of individuals who have received the vaccine. In a January 27, 1999 press release, the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) released figures which show that the number of hepatitis B vaccine-associated serious adverse event and death reports in American children under the age of 14 outnumber the reported cases of hepatitis B disease.

    Like

  322. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    This group of internationally respected vaccine researchers headed up by Dr. Dunbar also point out that, “The studies (for the approval of HPB) were not designed to assess serious, rare adverse events; the total number of recipients were too small; and the follow-up was too short to detect rare or delayed, serious, adverse reactions.” Finally they point out that “overall the number of examples of adverse neurologic outcomes following receipt of hepatitis B vaccine are of concern, particularly those resulting in demyelinating neurologic disease.”

    Like

  323. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    Vaccine producers have nothing to lose since our U.S. Congress has made them immune from responsibility or liability for injuries caused from their vaccines. The push is on for them to create more and more vaccines. There are huge amounts of money being made by these people who no longer worry about the consequences of their inadequate clinical trials. The United States government has had to pay out over a billion dollars in damages to families who can prove their children have been damaged or killed by vaccines, and there are thousands more cases pending.

    Like

  324. Gray Falcon
    June 4, 2013 at 8:46 pm

    Timothy, please show us that vaccines cause more harm than the diseases they are meant to prevent. For a time, it was “obvious” that vehicles could not travel over 20 miles per hours, because the human body would collapse from the pressure.

    Like

  325. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 8:52 pm

    There are several possible nervous system side effects that can occur after the use of the hepatitis B vaccine. Temporary mild symptoms include headache, vertigo, dizziness, insomnia and sleepiness. Convulsions and inflammatory nervous system diseases such as encephalitis and myelitis are other possible consequences. People with multiple sclerosis might experience worsening of their symptoms after hepatitis B vaccination.

    Like

  326. Gray Falcon
    June 4, 2013 at 8:57 pm

    Again, is it worse than the disease? It’s entirely possible that you are asking us to avoid a small risk by taking a large one.

    Like

  327. June 4, 2013 at 8:58 pm

    @Timothy – here are two great websites that you should acquaint yourself with, before multiple-post spamming….

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/index.html
    http://antiantivax.flurf.net/

    And if you have any real citations to back up any of your claims (besides the rabidly anti-vax NVIC), I would ask that you provide them.

    Like

  328. June 4, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    @Timothy – here is another entry you really need to read first:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#hepb

    I don’t see anything listed here that supports a single one of your baseless assertions…again, you have any facts to back up your statements?

    Like

  329. June 4, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    @Timothy – I would also avoid quoting individuals that have their own page on Whale.to, for obvious reasons.

    Like

  330. June 4, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    @Timothy – you know what else is an “assault” on a newborns’ immune system? Being born & exposed to tens of thousands of new pathogens…….but guess what, we’ve been having babies for a couple of million years now & we survive this exposure just fine……(well, until we caught things like the measles, mumps, rubella, HepB, Hib, HepA, HepC, Smallpox, etc.)

    The small number of antigens in any vaccine is miniscule compared to what we are exposed to every minute of every day. Logically, if our immune systems were as weak as you try to make them out to be, we would have died out as a species a long, long time ago.

    Like

  331. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    The number of hepatitis B vaccine-associated serious adverse events and death reports in American children under the age of 14 outnumber the reported cases of hepatitis B disease.

    Like

  332. Gray Falcon
    June 4, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    [citation needed]

    Like

  333. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    As of March 2012, there was a total of 66,654 hepatitis B vaccine-related adverse events reported to the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), including reports of headache, irritability, extreme fatigue, brain inflammation, convulsions, rheumatoid arthritis, optic neuritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus, Guillain Barre Syndrome (GBS) and neuropathy. There have been more than 1500 hepatitis B vaccine-related deaths reported, including deaths classified as sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).

    VAERS Database “Hepatitis All Events”

    Like

  334. June 4, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    @Timothy – how about providing actual evidence of that assertion? Because otherwise, I’ll just assume that you are either lying or repeating a baseless press release from the NVIC.

    Oh, and just in case:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-hep-b.pdf

    Around 38,000 people are infected with HepB every year & 2000 – 4000 people die of it every year as well.

    I look forward to your “proof” that adverse reactions to the vaccine “outnumber” these figures……

    Like

  335. June 4, 2013 at 9:13 pm

    @Timothy – VAERS is not an accurate means for measuring “adverse events” at face value, since the information is not updated with the actual follow-up information (I believe only approximately 3% of reports are found to be vaccine related).

    So, you’re lying. Especially since your number is spread over multiple decades, and my numbers are each and every year….

    Like

  336. June 4, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    @Timothy – and I’ll end this with “reported.”

    How many of those were “confirmed” Timothy? Care to cite something other than NVIC or VAERS?

    Like

  337. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    As of March 2012, there was a total of 66,654 hepatitis B vaccine-related adverse events reported to the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), including reports of headache, irritability, extreme fatigue, brain inflammation, convulsions, rheumatoid arthritis, optic neuritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus, Guillain Barre Syndrome (GBS) and neuropathy. There have been more than 1500 hepatitis B vaccine-related deaths reported, including deaths classified as sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS)

    VAERS Database – Hepatitis All Events.

    Like

  338. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    VAERS only represents an estimated 3% of reported cases. Think of that??

    Like

  339. Gray Falcon
    June 4, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    Timothy, learn to read. We already told you why numbers of VAERS reports alone are not evidence.

    Like

  340. Gray Falcon
    June 4, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    Timothy, please give sources for your claims. You may be surprised to hear this, but people on your side have posted entirely fabricated statements before.

    Like

  341. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    Who is at risk for HBV infection?

    The following populations are at increased risk of becoming infected with HBV:

    •Infants born to infected mothers
    •Sex partners of infected persons
    •Sexually active persons who are not in a long-term, mutually monogamous relationship (e.g., >1 sex partner during the previous 6 months)
    •Men who have sex with men
    •Injection drug users
    •Household contacts of persons with chronic HBV infection

    •Health care and public safety workers at risk for occupational exposure to blood or blood-contaminated body fluids
    •Hemodialysis patients
    •Residents and staff of facilities for developmentally disabled persons
    •Travelers to countries with intermediate or high prevalence of HBV infection

    Like

  342. Timothy
  343. June 4, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    @Timothy – let’s do some simple math……with a start date of say 1995 (I’ll just pick a year).

    38,000 people infected with HepB every year x 18 = 684,000 infected individuals
    2K – 4K Die every year x 18 years = 36,000 dead (low) to 72,000 dead (high)

    If your adverse reaction data is evenly spread over that same time period, we get “reported”:

    3920 (approximate) reports each year of adverse events – at least some percentage are going to be mild, not serious (of course – not confirmed)

    107 Reports of Death (not confirmed) per year

    If we estimate that 3% of these numbers were real, we’d get 117 adverse reactions per year & 3 deaths

    Over 100mil doses of HepB have been administered – and just using simple math, it is obvious that the vaccine is magnitudes safer than the disease itself (by a long, long, long shot).

    Not to mention the mountains of science and safety data that back this up, not just here in the US, but worldwide as well.

    So, what do you have Timothy?

    Like

  344. Gray Falcon
    June 4, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    Increased risk for some does not mean everyone else has no risk. There are numerous pediatric cases of Hep B:http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/964662-overview

    Like

  345. June 4, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    @Timothy – so you can tell the future? You know exactly if any given individual is going to end up in a high-risk group at some time in the future?

    It is too late to get the vaccine if you’re already infected.

    You’re making this too easy – it is like shooting fish in a barrel.

    Like

  346. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    eMedicine?

    Like

  347. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    I site the CDC and you site eMedicine…..yes it is too easy.

    Like

  348. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    New borns definitely don’t need it.

    Like

  349. Timothy
    June 4, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    It was nice chatting with you mates, gotta bon dinner now.

    Like

  350. Gray Falcon
    June 4, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    Timothy, there are numerous cases of people choking to death on food. You’re better off not eating.

    Like

  351. June 4, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    @Timothy – you’re CDC reference is the same as mine & doesn’t support your assertions.

    Simple math refutes your arguments & you haven’t provided a shred of actual evidence for your statements.

    I think my work here for the evening is done – again, like shooting fish in a barrel…..

    Like

  352. novalox
    June 4, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    @timothy

    Have you even looked at your citations? Because they don’t say what you think they say.

    Like

  353. Chris
    June 4, 2013 at 11:42 pm

    Ms. Parker, why are you using another sock puppet posting the same thing you did earlier when it was revealed you were using at least six identities? Just go up and read the responses given to those other identities like Agnid, Foster Dad, etc,

    This is not normal behavior. There is no shame in getting help from professionals. Do not do it for yourself, but for your family. You may not notice, but this behavior affects families. I know because it affected our family. Please, go get help.

    Like

  354. Chris
    June 4, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    Timothy… look up thread at comment #192, and then answer the questions posed to your sock puppets.

    The rapid fire posting and using sock puppets is not normal. Please get help.

    Like

  355. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 12:36 am

    Another anti-vax person with no scientific capabilities, understanding and using an easily detected lie of being a “nurse”. Timothy, you are what I would consider scum.

    Like

  356. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 1:42 am

    Actually, “Timothy” is someone who is very familiar to us. “Timothy” is a mom of a child born in 2000, about twenty years after that mom became a real lawyer, with a PhD in Spanish. This person unfortunately has been affected through genetics with a condition that effects many intelligent persons, and needs to get professional help.

    Like

  357. June 5, 2013 at 5:37 am

    @Chris – I had hoped that this wasn’t just another Ms. Parker sock-puppet…..she is certainly sounding like she’s getting desperate.

    Like

  358. dingo199
    June 5, 2013 at 7:44 am

    Timothy :VAERS only represents an estimated 3% of reported cases. Think of that??

    I’d like to see your evidence for that claim, Cia.

    But only 3% of reports on VAERS are verified as being definitely due to the vaccine.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23063829
    Think of that?

    Like

  359. Lawrence
    June 5, 2013 at 8:14 am

    @dingo – I hadn’t seen that link before. There are also linked studies that detail the strengths and weaknesses of VAERS reporting and why the information should not be used “at face value” to make definite assertions about any particular vaccine or adverse event (particularly statistical analysis) which has been utilized by anti-vax groups to push incorrect assertions about the raw adverse event numbers.

    I definitely recommend educating oneself on those studies before repeating the crank anti-vaccine talking points.

    Like

  360. dingo199
    June 5, 2013 at 8:26 am

    Perhaps Cia should stick to the system of naming hurricanes when she chooses a new sockpuppet. In strict alphabetical order, alternating male and female names.

    Like

  361. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Lawrence, she is posting the exact same words as Agnid and the other sock puppets. I would not call it “desperate” but a manifestation of her illness.

    Like

  362. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Hello, I just want you fellas to know I am not the perosn you are referring to in your comments. Poor dunker must be miserable.

    Like

  363. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Also, I am not a woman and I am definitely not the CIA!

    Like

  364. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    Get help, please. Your behavior is not normal.

    Like

  365. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    See Ms. Vara’s comment here:
    https://shotofprevention.com/2013/05/28/new-arizona-law-sparks-battle-on-vaccine-exemptions-in-foster-care/#comment-28527

    It says “And just so all our participants are aware, Agnid is also Daran, Dina, Scott Henkel and Foster Dad, and as most of us suspect also Ms. Parker who has previously been banned and gone under several other aliases in other stints on this blog. Additionally K. is also K, Karen, and Dan.”

    Please get help, if not for yourself, do it for your family.

    Like

  366. June 5, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    @Chris – I am reminded of that old commercial, “Is it live or is it Memorex?”

    Like

  367. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    Well, considering “Timothy” just about posted word for word what “Agnid” wrote above, it must be Memorex.

    Like

  368. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    Wait, again with the moderation! It was one simple sentence!

    It has to be Memorex because “Timothy” posted almost exactly what the person in Comment #44 did.

    Like

  369. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    I guess now the moderation bot is triggered by mentioning the socks by name.

    Like

  370. June 5, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    @Chris – I try not to put certain letter combinations together anymore (that spell certain troll names), even in completely unrelated words….I haven’t had a filter issue over the past few days.

    Like

  371. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Chris, I am not this other person you speak of. I looked at comment 44 and it is not the same as I posted, same idea but yet different.

    Like

  372. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Then stop repeating the stuff that was posted earlier by the other sock puppets. Try something unique and different like actual evidence. You can start by posting the PubMed indexed study by a qualified researcher that shows the HepB vaccine causes more harm than hepatitis b, which is responsible for three thousand deaths each in the USA (see comment #192).

    Again, no VAERS reports and none written by biased researchers who have an agenda.

    Until you do that you will be just another sock puppet someone who is banned, and whose behavior you are repeating.

    Like

  373. June 5, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    @Timothy – how about testing out your math skills or showing us your evidence that there are more serious HepB reactions than the 38,000 people who are infected every year or the 2000 – 4000 people who die, every year, from complications from HepB infections?

    Like

  374. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    Oh, and “Timothy”, the person of Comment #44 claimed to not be a sock puppet, but this comment showed that she lied:
    https://shotofprevention.com/2013/05/28/new-arizona-law-sparks-battle-on-vaccine-exemptions-in-foster-care/#comment-28527

    Like

  375. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Honestly Chris, I don’t care what you believe mate. I just felt bad for the poor sap you were commenting about.

    Like

  376. novalox
    June 5, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    @timothy (ms parker)

    But when you actively lie, and those lies put innocent people and children at risk, then yes, people will care about your lies, and will try to correct them.

    Also, using socpuppets proves that you are dishonest and not willing to engage in a normal, adult, and rational conversation,

    Like

  377. June 5, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    @Novalox – I gave up hoping to have a normal, adult & rational conversation with these people a long time ago. Now I am happy to refute their baseless assertions with actual facts and evidence.

    Let’s not get bogged down with the sockpuppet argument, better to keep fighting their fiction with actual facts, evidence, and Science.

    Like

  378. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    Then, Timothy, provide the actual evidence that the vaccine is causes equivalent harm to the actual disease: which is responsible for three thousand deaths each year in the USA.

    Like

  379. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Sorry to burst your boggles novalox, I am not “ms parker”

    I am beginning to think you people are a little beyond the bushes.

    Like

  380. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Timothy, where is that PubMed indexed evidence that the vaccine causes more harm than hepatitis b, which is the cause of three thousand deaths in the USA each year?

    Like

  381. novalox
    June 5, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    @timothy

    Then, provide evidence, which you have constantly failed to do.

    Like

  382. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    Chris, you must first factor in your risk to Hep B, then you have to look at all of the injuries from the vaccine itself. Then make up your own whammy if you need the vaccine. It’s not hard. You have tunnel vision and are stuck on only one thought. I wish you the best Chris.

    Like

  383. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Timothy offers nothing but trollish avoidance.

    Like

  384. June 5, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    @Jay – agreed. Anyone that doesn’t actually refer back to the scientific materials provided, which easily refute their arguments, is most certainly a troll.

    Like

  385. novalox
    June 5, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    @timothy

    So you admit you have no evidence?

    Good to know that you are just here to troll and to hand out pseudo-scientific advice.

    Like

  386. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    The mechanism that the US chooses to use to track vaccine injuries is vaers.

    There are thousands of reported injuries due to the Hep B vaccine, take it for what it is worth.

    It’s really not hard to understand.

    Like

  387. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Timothy, what must you read and understand before using the VAERS database? Also, what about the VSD?

    Where is that PubMed indexed study showing the vaccine causes at least as much harm as the disease?

    Like

  388. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    VAERs is also where people have claimed that vaccines turned them into the Incredible Hulk.

    Like

  389. Lawrence
    June 5, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    @Timothy – VAERS is but a single component of the CDC Vaccine Saefty Program:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/activities/vsd.html

    Do some research before you post.

    Like

  390. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    Chris, Jay, and Lawrence…..it is what it is,please don’t kill the messanger.

    Chris…I don’t need a pubmed study, all I have to do is look at vaers to see the reported injuries. Some may be true and some may not…there are a lot of them, so take it for what it is. Seems I do keep repeating myself.

    Jay….If you beleive all reports in vaers are fake then make your decision based on that belief.

    Lawrence….vaers has nothing to do with safety. It is merely a reporting mechanism.

    Like

  391. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    I didn’t say they were fake, Timothy. Please refrain from using logical fallacies (strawman). My comment is intended to indicate that the VAERS information is not 100% valid, and could be as little as 3%. The reports within VAERS are not all independently verified for validity by trained assessors. Relying on VAERS, as a layman, is an ignorant mistake that has also led to a few “researchers” losing credibility. Notably, this has happened to Dr. Tomljenovik and Dr. Shaw that have delved into VAERS as if it were a credible database and have not done the due diligence in nothing that their source material invalidated their efforts of analysis.

    Which is exactly what you are doing.

    Like

  392. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    Timothy, please tell me what you need to read and understand before using the VAERS database at its official portal? I believe it has been explained to you before.

    You can stop repeating yourself by providing actual factual evidence. Make sure it is better than what I analyzed in Comment #190.

    Like

  393. Lawrence
    June 5, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    @Timothy – are you seriously saying that a reporting mechanism “isn’t” a part of the vaccine safety program?

    Wow…..

    And when the messenger delivers false messages, I’ll shoot him all day long.

    Like

  394. Lawrence
    June 5, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    @Timothy – there are also plenty of reports of UFOs and Big Foot….but I don’t see any scientific evidence to show they exist……

    How about real, scientific evidence to support your assertions, Mr. Messenger?

    Like

  395. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    Jay….you are very sensitive. You are the one who made the extreme Hulk comment, so I agreed with you and said take it for what it is is worth. Now you tell me that vaers is valid. Trying to agree with you but I don’t think you know what you want.

    Chris, all I need to look at is the thousands of reports on vaers to make my decision.

    Lawrence, in regards to this discussion, no vaers is not really doing much as far as safety, since half of the info is garbage.

    Like

  396. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    Lawrence…it is a fact that there are thousands of reports in vaers.

    Like

  397. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    You lied about what I said, again, Timothy. The data is useful to trained researchers that know the limitations and the validity of the data to track possible changes in vaccine adverse reactions. It takes skill and an incredible amount of knowledge to use it properly. Uneducated laymen, like yourself, do not have those capabilities.

    Like

  398. Lawrence
    June 5, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    I believe Timothy is either incapable of reading and/or comprehending the evidence we’ve provided to refute his baseless assertions.

    Like

  399. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    Jay…I never lied…you exagerate quite often?

    I don’t have to be trained to see that there are thousands of reports. That is all I need to know. I will take a percentage as valid and make my own decision based on my risk of getting Hep B and the risk of the reported injuries.

    Lawrence, what evidence? Evidence that ALL of those reports are garbage? If you don’t have evidence to prove all of those reports are garbage then you have noting to refute it.

    Like

  400. Lawrence
    June 5, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    And he can’t do math either, obviously.

    Like

  401. Lawrence
    June 5, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    Or comprehend research studies:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23063829/

    Like

  402. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    Seems all you can do is whirl insults. Very nice.

    Like

  403. Lawrence
    June 5, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    And I nearly missed his use of the “Nirvana and Perfect World” fallacies as well.

    Go home Timothy, you’re a troll.

    Like

  404. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    Less than 25% of the reports are probably connected to vaccines. Great, based on the shear numbers, that’s enough evidence for me, NOT to get the Hep B vaccine. How am I gong to get Hep B again? Probably the same risk as I have getting AIDS from somebody.

    Like

  405. Lawrence
    June 5, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    I’m sorry that you find Science, evidence, research, logic and reason to be insulting…..

    Like

  406. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    You go home Lawrence, you can’t seem to get along with those with a different view than your own and may I remind you that you and Jay have been the ones whirling insults. So maybe you should leave.

    Like

  407. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    Well you can get them from the tears of your victims, Timmy.

    http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/310261

    Like

  408. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    It isn’t like a troll such as Timmy has ever heard of horizontal transmission of Hep B.

    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/206/4/464.short

    Like

  409. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    Timmy, your inability to understand the scientific evidence and quality of that evidence is incredibly insulting. Your stupidity is insulting to the human race.

    Like

  410. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    Really Lawrence? Here are some of may favorite quotes from you and your mates. Doesn’t look like science, evidence, research , and logic to me…..looks like insults.

    “Timothy, you are what I would consider scum.”

    “I believe Timothy is either incapable of reading and/or comprehending the evidence we’ve provided to refute his baseless assertions.”

    “And he can’t do math either, obviously.”

    “Or comprehend research studies:”

    “Go home Timothy, you’re a troll.”

    Like

  411. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    Timothy, I am sorry but you will have to show better results that declaring there are stories in VAERS. Hepatitis b is the reason for about three thousand deaths in the USA each year, and even more globally. Please provide the PubMed indexed study that shows the vaccine causes more harm.

    Like

  412. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    And more insults from Jay….”Your stupidity is insulting to the human race.”

    Yes…very scientific indeed.

    Like

  413. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 7:50 pm

    Chris 25% of vaers has been deemed acurate….and I am not high risk for Hep B as I have mentioned.

    Like

  414. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    The evidence of your stupidity and inability to cope with information and evidence is well laid out in this thread, Timothy, so yes, it is quite scientific.

    Like

  415. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    Jay, I have as much of a chance of getting Hep B from tears as I do getting AIDS form tears. Pretty slim isn’t it.

    Like

  416. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    Jay…sorry, as big as your ego is…..your instults are not scientific, but rather sad. If you really believed in what you were saying you would not have to go out of your way to insult people. It also demonstrates that your are NOT a nice guy and do not care about others at all. So with that being said, why would I ever believe anything that you say? You have only demonstrated to me that you are a bully and only care for yourself.

    Like

  417. Lawrence
    June 5, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    This is my last word on Timothy. He has ignored rational discussion points, logical interpretations, scientific data, research, basic mathematical calculations and explanations as to why his views are incorrect.

    My description of him, based on his track record to date, is 100% accurate.

    Like

  418. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    Lawrence, insulting somebody should not be considered a rational discussion point. Jus an fyi for your future discussions here. If you want to be taken seriously, don’t insult people.

    You are the one who sent me the link about 25% or less of vaers is accurate – yes? So what is it you think I am missing?

    You still haven’t told me how I am going to get Hep B if I am not is a high risk group.

    Like

  419. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    Timothy:

    Chris 25% of vaers has been deemed acurate….and I am not high risk for Hep B as I have mentioned

    Citation needed.

    Like

  420. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    Chris, see Lawrence link above.

    Like

  421. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    I see it says: “In the end, only 3 (3%) of the AEFI were classified as definitely causally related to vaccine received.”

    Okay, now how many of that is for the hepatitis b vaccine, and how does it compare to the damage from the disease? Where is that PubMed citation?

    And exactly how do you know that you will not end up with hepatitis b from horizontal transmission like Jay’s last link? Perhaps you will encounter a dentist described in Comment #53. Though you are an adult who is not likely to go into the foster system, and it is the children who get chronic infections. They are not careful about snot, blood, and biting.

    Like

  422. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 9:00 pm

    Chris, did you miss the part about 20% were clasified as probably?

    Also, from Jay’s source…”Spread of HBV occurs through contact with blood or other bodily fluids of an infected person. In countries with low endemicity, the spread of HBV is caused predominantly by sharing contaminated equipment during drug injections and through sexual contact.”

    Chris it is my understanding, that through snot, and biting etc, it would be almost impossible to get hep B. Same as with AIDS? Am I wrong?

    Like

  423. novalox
    June 5, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    @tim

    Why should we listen to a proven liar, troll, and sockpuppet like you?

    You have not supplied any evidence, have resorted to name calling, and spewed out unsupported assertions.

    So again, [citation needed].

    Like

  424. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    Timothy, “probably” does not mean “accurate.” And “predominately” does not mean “always.” See links in comments 46 and 53.

    And, no, it is much easier to get HBV than HIV. Again see links in those comments.

    Like

  425. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    And the poor little troll is left cherry picking from the papers I gave him.

    Like

  426. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 11:38 pm

    novalox….what?

    Chris….”probably” is more of a yes than a no.

    Jay….still got nothing but insults huh?

    Like

  427. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    I ‘ve gotta run….got a lunch date. Cheers!

    Like

  428. Jay Kanta
    June 5, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    As I said, you’re insulting everyone here with your willful ignorance and stupidity.

    Like

  429. Timothy
    June 5, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    Chris….comment 46 has a link to “Unusual Cases of Hep B” , seems self explanatory.

    Comment 53’s link is interesting. Of 3500 patients that were tested in a “high-risk setting”, 3 tested positive for Hep B and less than 3 for HIV. Again, that is 3 out of 3500 in a high risk setting.

    Like

  430. Chris
    June 5, 2013 at 11:54 pm

    Still not a zero chance.

    Like

  431. Timothy
    June 6, 2013 at 12:27 am

    Chris….agreed. I never thought it was zero.

    Like

  432. Chris
    June 6, 2013 at 1:28 am

    Then what verifiable peer reviewed evidence do you have that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease?

    Like

  433. June 6, 2013 at 9:10 am

    @Chris – this is a perfect example of what happens when people take “belief” over hard Science:

    http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Faith-Healing-Churches-Linked-to-Two-Dozen-Child-Deaths-208745201.html

    Like

  434. T.
    June 6, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Lawrence,
    You and your colleagues’ comments are just like they were last year. First you and some of them said it was silly for me to be alarmed at my daughter’s prolonged screaming, that I just didn’t understand that prolonged screaming was just expected newborn behavior. One of you went to great lengths to describe “purple screaming syndrome” as normal, expected newborn behavior. Then several of you, including you, switched to take the opposite tack, saying that my behavior was reprehensible for not spotting the screaming right away as being a life-threatening disease or vaccine reaction, and rushing her to the ER. The doctor brushed it off as colic (though colic never occurs in the first week, and does not stop feeding). Are you now blaming me for my daughter’s autism because I did not realize at the time that it was a dangerous symptom? Are you saying that there would have been effective treatment at the hospital to halt vaccine-induced encephalitis? My present understanding, and the memory of a friend’s father hospitalized for several weeks with encephalitis ten years ago, is that they can try steroids to stop the inflammation, but that may or may not be enough to avoid brain damage. And Chris, if you say that encephalitis is not encephalitis unless it’s diagnosed by a neurologist, does that mean that encephalitis did not exist in the millenia before neurologists? You talk a lot about huge numbers of measles deaths in the Third World: are all of these cases confirmed to be measles by lab tests, or are diseases really diseases when it serves your purposes, and not really the disease at all when it does not? They quibbled for months about Mr. Gareth William’s death from measles (or asthma or something else). They were supposed to have done tests, he saw three doctors in the weeks before his death, and spent four days in the hospital shortly before his death at home after having been discharged. Why is it so difficult to determine whether or not he had measles?

    So the plan is to deny that children are suffering from vaccine-induced encephaltitis in huge numbers by not informing parents of the symptoms of it, and then trying to attribute the symptoms to something else like colic or purple screaming syndrome, and doing everything possible not to entertain the possibility of encephalitis or look for brain swelling until it is all over and the signs are gone? And then insist that vaccine-induced encephalitis only occurs in the one in several million cases that push the hypothesis through against all odds and are finally vindicated? But no idea at all why there’s now one in 25 American children developing autism?

    Like

  435. T.
    June 6, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    Thank you, Timothy, for your wonderful, well-informed, supportive posts! I am grateful to you!

    Like

  436. T.
    June 6, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    And still waiting Lawrence. What would be the physical evidence proving that a vaccine did the damage in that one in a million case you always talk about?

    Like

  437. Jay Kanta
    June 6, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    It would start with ruling out other possible causes, something you skipped over in your rush to blame vaccines, Socky.

    Like

  438. T.
    June 6, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    Dr. Sears in the second edition of The Vaccine Book, p. 194, says that there is an average of 130 cases a year of severe hepatitis-B disease in U.S. children twelve and under. Of course you guys don’t accept him as a reliable source, for obvious reasons, but millions of parents respect him for his moderate opinions on vaccination.

    Like

  439. Chris
    June 6, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Again, with the hints that this person is someone who has been banned multiple times. The use of an initial, and complementing her own sock puppet. Even admitted she is the one who went on about encephalitis, and had been chastised for not getting medical help.

    This is not normal behavior. She really needs to get help, if not for herself, but for her family.

    Like

  440. Chris
    June 6, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    The repetition of previously authors who she has been told multiple times is not qualified, also indicative of the abnormal behavior of this banned person.

    Like

  441. June 6, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    @Chris – this is indeed Ms. Parker. I would submit to Christine, but I’m sure Ms. Parker will just attempt to find another way to post her baseless information.

    I would submit to ask her, how “exactly” was the encephalitis diagnosis made, regarding her daughter’s condition?

    Was it done at the time?

    Was it done years later?

    If so, by what evidence was this diagnosis made & by whom?

    Dr. Sears is also not a trained immunologist or researcher regarding vaccines – his opinion is simply his own, with no evidence to back it up.

    Also, I do agree with Chris that your repeated behavior is not that of a sound-minded person.

    And lastly, you’ve already seen the link to the HepB vaccine sheet:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-hep-b.pdf

    And the multiple areas in which Vaccine Safety is tracked and way:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccine_Monitoring/Index.html

    Like

  442. Rosa
    June 6, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    I have never complemented someone who was really me, that would be immodest. I would have thought you could tell from the styles that Steve, Jeff, Dani , Th1Th2, and I are different people (also many others). But if you aren’t able to tell the difference, it really doesn’t matter.

    Like

  443. June 6, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    @Rosa – we’ll just let the IP addresses speak for themselves (and in most cases, they already have). Unless, of course, you are a victim of multiple personality disorder (which might actually explain a lot).

    Like

  444. Timothy
    June 6, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Chris, “Then what verifiable peer reviewed evidence do you have that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease?”

    If I get the Hep B vaccine I may have a reaction. Why would I take that risk if it has been determined that I don’t need too?

    I may not be able to reply any more, I think I am being blocked and am having a hard time commenting.

    Like

  445. Chris
    June 6, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    Timothy, are you a child, more importantly a foster child? And, unfortunately, children who are in foster care tend to be at high risk for heptatitis.

    Like

  446. Timothy
    June 6, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    In what setting is a foster child at more risk? Please elaborate.

    Like

  447. Chris
    June 6, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Timothy, try thinking why a child would end up in foster care. It would help if you broadened your horizons beyond your Midwestern college town.

    Like

  448. Timothy
    June 6, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    If the kid isn’t sharing needles and having sex….please tell me what makes them a higher risk?

    Like

  449. June 6, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    @Timothy – I know I said I wasn’t going to engage you anymore, but this one last time, it totally makes sense.

    Foster Children, by virtue of their circumstances – some of which could be quite dire, are at higher risk. They aren’t “foster children” because their upbringing was stellar or circumstances at home were superb, don’t you know….

    Like

  450. Chris
    June 6, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    Timothy, some have parents who share needles, and some of the children have been abused. Both physically and sexually. They are children at risk for a reason.

    You need to get past living in quiet suburbia and learn about the world. For some children it is a nightmare.

    Like

  451. Timothy
    June 6, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Those are past tense right Chris?

    Why are they at risk now?

    I am positive the part of the world I live in is much worse than your suburbia. So you can stop with those comments.

    Like

  452. June 6, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    @Timothy – if you don’t consider kids in foster care to be a high-risk group (because of overall circumstances), you certainly don’t understand the environment or have ever worked in the system.

    Like

  453. Chris
    June 6, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    Actually, no. Some actually continue to get abused. Why don’t you try learning something.

    Like

  454. Timothy
    June 6, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    I really don’t understand your bad attitudes. I don’t know too much about the environment, that is why I was asking. I never claimed I ever worked in the system and I am always up for learning something.

    Now I understand, the foster parents are not necessarily the best….I go it.

    Like

  455. Lawrence
    June 6, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    @Timothy – actually, I would be very concerned about the overall environment, since many of these kids will see multiple foster homes, plus whatever home they came from wasn’t conducive to teach proper behaviors (usually). Discipline issues are usually the least of the foster patents’ concerns – both medical issue and high risk behaviors are all too common.

    Like

  456. Chris
    June 6, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    And there is also a chance that a child will enter foster care with chronic hepatitis, then they pose a risk to other children. Who knows what other infections this child ended up with:
    http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/tucson-mom-convicted-of-making-daughter-sick/article_ad142d18-ca54-11e2-8ae4-001a4bcf887a.html

    Like

  1. May 28, 2013 at 1:15 pm

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