Decision Made: No Global Ban on Thimerosal
Jan 22, 2013

unep_logo_enLast month, I wrote about a proposal, brought about by the United Nations Environment Programme, to restrict the worldwide use of mercury in an effort to limit mercury releases, protect human health and preserve the environment. Unfortunately, the proposal included a restriction on the trade of mercury-added products, to include any and all vaccines that contain the ethylmercury-containing preservative thimerosal.
The scientific and medical community were quite concerned about the implications of such a decision. Thimerosal has not only been determined to be safe, posing no human health risk, but it is also used as a preservative to prevent contamination of multidose vials of vaccines predominantly used to distribute vaccines to the most disadvantaged children throughout the world. By baning thimerosal and disrupting critical vaccination programs, millions of the world’s poorest children would no longer have access to vaccines and would remain at great risk of many deadly diseases. A recent NY Times article that detailed the concerns of this treaty suggested that in 2010 alone, more than 1.4 million child deaths were prevented through thimerosal containing vaccines. This is why the global immunization community agreed; a proposed global ban on mercury, that includes thimerosal, would be a tragedy.
Today, I am happy to share the news that a landmark decision was made by the UNEP this past weekend which will protect access to thimerosal-containing vaccines. A treaty annex, that specifies which products are excluded from the treaty, will protect “vaccines containing thimerosal as preservatives”.
There is no doubt that this favorable decision came as a result of the cooperation of various organizations within the global immunization community, to include WHO, UNICEF, GAVI, PATH and many  immunization advocates and experts all around the world.  In a recent communication by PATH Policy Officer Erin Fry Sosne, these critical partnerships were acknowledged and applauded.

“By facilitating communication between ministries of health and ministries of environment, strong statements were made by delegates about the essential role of thimerosal-containing vaccines in protecting human health.”

As both a parent and a Shot@Life champion, I’m grateful to know that global immunization programs will not be interrupted and will continue in their efforts to save the lives of millions of children year after year.


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138 responses to “Decision Made: No Global Ban on Thimerosal”

  1. Lawrence says:

    And cue the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth by the anti-vaccine groups…..
    Fortunately, their effort to derail the worldwide vaccination and disease eradication programs have been unsuccessful.
    I look forward to seeing expanded programs in Africa and getting to those last Polio pockets in Pakistan and Afghanistan…..so we’ll be celebrating Polio eradication in the next few years!

  2. lilady says:

    The wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth led by those anti-vaccine groups has already begun.
    The AAP supported the removal of Thimerosal in single dose vials in 1999, implemented 2001, because of a “theory” that Thimerosal was implicated in the onset of autism. The AAP then (quietly) removed that supporting statement from their website, as studies specifically targeted at the organomercury compound were conducted and showed no link to the onset of autism.
    Here, from the AAP website a short history about their original recommendation, the results of the many studies conducted on the safety of Thimerosal and the reasons why the AAP supports the use of Thimerosal as a preservative in multi-dose vials of vaccine:
    http://aapnews.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/06/01/aapnews.20120601-1
    All of the “mercury militia” is exceedingly upset now that their *theories* about the bogus link between Thimerosal and autism onset have been proven to be utterly false.

  3. […] of Prevention are reporting Decision Made: No Global Ban on Thimerosal. A worldwide treaty has been finalized involving reducing mercury in the environment. Much […]

  4. Dr. S says:

    By age 18, a person in USA on average will have received 70 shots for 16 differen type of diseases. That makes a LOT of neuro toxic substances and attacks against the nervous central system, endocrinian system and immunitary system. You can bet is a winning ticker for cancer, immune diseases and chronic illmesses of all sorts. And premature death. That’s what I really think, they want!

  5. Chris says:

    “Dr.” S, you know that as well as how they are administered intravenously? Yeah, right. Even in developing countries, where exercise is by trying scrape by enough to eat each day.
    Do tell, oh great and wise chiropractor: which vaccine in the American pediatric schedule is only available with thimerosal? Do not include influenza, because half are thimerosal free.

  6. novalox says:

    @dr. s
    [citation needed]
    Considering your posting history, I highly doubt you’ll come up with something substantive.

  7. lilady says:

    Look how Dr. S. mangles the English language…heh, heh.
    “That makes a LOT of neuro toxic substances and attacks against the nervous central system, endocrinian system and immunitary system.”
    The “central system” is not “nervous”.
    “Endocrinian system”?
    “Immunitary system”? A cross between the immune system and urinary system, perhaps?
    Is Dr. S. really a chiropractor? I didn’t think that “profession” could sink any lower when it comes to basic science, but “S” has managed to plumb new depths for his “profession”.

  8. Lawrence says:

    @lilady – I definitely don’t plan on taking advice from a chiropractor when it comes to immunology and vaccines (which have nothing to do with his/her profession).
    I will, instead, rely on experts in the field, both here and abroad and the published science that shows that vaccines are both safe and effective – certainly more so (by a magnitude or more) than the diseases they prevent.

  9. Lara Lohne says:

    By the age of 18, a child who grows up unvaccinated will have suffered through an average of, how many vaccine preventable diseases? That is a much more pertinent question in my opinion.

  10. Chris says:

    I would also like to remind all that Dr. S and his family are being protected by the community that does vaccinate. They are free riders on those who are scientifically responsible parents.

  11. Dr. S says:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/post2468343_b_2468343.html
    2 vaccine damaged kids get millions…
    P.S. I dont inject chemicals in my children..and no diseases have ever been eradicated by vaccines. Polio has been huge in overseas after vaccine campaigns..
    Try reading something other than Fox or CNN.
    A responsible parent..does not vaccinate without educating themselves. No milk, no antibiotics in our life either..
    why dont all of you adults go get boosters, but make sure it is an equivalent dose for your size.
    You really think a vaccine offers protection…then you believe milk is good for the bones..
    Diet soda is ok…??
    give me a break…WAKE UP …! ! !

  12. Lawrence says:

    @DrS (and you’re definitely no MD) – any citations?

  13. Chris says:

    (not) Dr. S, and that is two children out of how many doses of vaccine? And, again, which vaccine in the American pediatric schedule is only available with thimerosal? Do not included influenza because about half are thimerosal-free.
    Surely you have figured that out since I first asked you that four days ago.

  14. Lawrence says:

    @Chris – I wonder, if (Nota)DrS’s kids came down with Strep throat, without antibiotics, and it does actually lead to Scarlet Fever – if he’d still be complaining?
    Probably so…….

  15. Stu says:

    You are right Dr. S!

  16. Chris says:

    Stu, he is right about what? That vaccines are given intravenously? That thimerosal is still in American vaccines required for children? That plague and scarlet fever no longer exist? That two kids who get a table injury settlement from a court that requires no real definite proof overturns decades of real research on the safety of the millions of vaccine doses given every year in the USA?
    If so, then you need to tell give us that evidence. Do tell us which vaccine on the American pediatric schedule is only available with thimerosal. Do not include influenza since about half are thimerosal free.

  17. lilady says:

    I’ve commented on David Kirby’s blog on the Ho-Po. Kirby provided some of the court documents for the two cases of children who were awarded damages for a “Table Injury” (encephalitis/encephalopathy), following vaccination.
    So, Dr. S, show us in the court documents that Kirby provided…and the additional court document that I provided…where the children were awarded damages for *vaccine-induced-autism”?
    I’ve also posed questions to Mr. Kirby about his ridiculous (and unproven) statements that once Thimerosal was removed from multi-dose vials of vaccines the prevalence of ASDs would plummet. Kirby has opted to not answer my questions. Why?

  18. Joe says:

    @lady
    These cases are “unpublished,” meaning information is limited, and access to medical records and other exhibits is blocked. Much of the information that is reported is only what’s available at the vaccine court website.
    “once Thimerosal was removed from multi-dose vials of vaccines the prevalence of ASDs would plummet. Kirby has opted to not answer my questions. Why?”
    Because it isn’t only about thimerosal, you’ve been told this before but keep playing dumb. It’s about all of the toxic crap in the vaccines, not just one single ingredient.

  19. Lara Lohne says:

    @Joe, it didn’t used to be “about all of the toxic crap in the vaccines” until the rates of autism continued to climb after the removal of thimerosal. That is what we call moving the goal posts darling.

  20. novalox says:

    @joe
    [citation needed]

  21. Chris says:

    Joe, do tell us what in the DTaP is more toxic than the toxins created by the bacteria that cause diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis. Especially the tetanospasmin that almost killed this little boy who now has to relearn how to eat and walk? Just list those ingredients and the actual scientific evidence it is more dangerous than tetanospasmin with actual citations.

  22. Lawrence says:

    @Joe – haven’t we been down this road before – all you need to do is visit:
    http://antiantivax.flurf.net/
    Which debunks the various “toxic/toxin” myths the anti-vaccine cranks try to push.

  23. lilady says:

    @ Joe: David Kirby stated that the children were awarded damages for *vaccine-induced-autism*, which is a bald-faced lie. The sequence of events were provided in great detail in the court documents that Kirby provided and that I provided. Who’s didn’t read those documents and who is playing dumb here, Joe?
    Who’s again making statements about other “toxic ingredients”, without any citations?
    Who has not read this document from the AAP in support of the WHO’s use of multi-dose vaccine vials that contain Thimerosal as a preservative?
    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/1/149
    “…Overwhelmingly, the evidence collected over the past 15 years has failed to yield any evidence of significant harm, including serious neurodevelopmental disorders, from use of thimerosal in vaccines. Dozens of studies from countries around the world have supported the safety of thimerosal-containing vaccines. Specifically, the Institute of Medicine, and others have concluded that the evidence favors rejection of a link between thimerosal and autism.6–12 Careful studies of the risk of other serious neurodevelopmental disorders have failed to support a causal link with thimerosal.13–17 In May 2002, the American Academy of Pediatrics retired its 1999 statement on thimerosal after evaluating new studies.3,18 The original decision is explained in an accompanying commentary in this issue by Dr Louis Z. Cooper and Dr Samuel Katz.19 Had the evidence that is available now been available in 1999, the policy reducing thimerosal use would likely have not been implemented. Furthermore, in 2008 the World Health Organization (WHO) endorsed the use of thimerosal in vaccines.20…”
    Yes, we’ve been down this road before and your many statements about “toxic ingredients” in vaccines which are totally devoid of citations have been addressed numerous times.
    Yup, it’s a case of moving the goal posts…again.

  24. Joe says:

    @lara
    It’s not moving the goal posts, it’s called science moving forward. Try and keep up.

  25. Lara Lohne says:

    @Joe, if what you claim is science, then you should be able to provide citations showing support of your claims.
    From the science that I’ve read, your statement is false, and is only moving the goal posts. When one claim linking vaccines to autism is debunked, you make another claim linking vaccines to autism. Then that new claim is debunked you make yet another new claim linking vaccines to autism. That is moving the goal posts, nothing more. I’m not the one who has fallen behind, Joe, that is you because you refuse to acknowledge new studies and new science and new data that is being released all the time proving vaccines are safe, effective and have no relation what so ever to autism.

  26. Lawrence says:

    @Joe – again, we’ve been down this road before. How about finally providing some actual evidence or citations to back up those “opinions” of yours?

  27. Chris says:

    Joe, this article is about protecting children who live in developing countries. So my question about what ingredients are more toxic than tetanospasmin, since tetanus kills almost 200000 people on this planet each year. So if you can’t answer that, then tell us your plan to protect children living in places like Pakistan, Nigeria, and elsewhere from tetanus.

  28. Joe says:

    We have blood, urine, stool, and hair samples that prove you wrong.

  29. Lawrence says:

    @joe – really? Prove it.

  30. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe :
    We have blood, urine, stool, and hair samples that prove you wrong.

    Where? Just saying you have evidence isn’t enough, you need to provide it. Do you really think we’re going to trust absolute strangers on the Internet for medical advice?
    One thing I should note about these statements about “toxins”. They seem to assume that the world is somehow more polluted now than it ever was before. Anyone familiar with the history of environmental regulations can tell you that’s not true. If toxins cause autism, why didn’t the autism rate shoot through the roof when lakes and rivers were so foul they caught fire?

  31. Joe says:

    Really Gray Falcon?
    Try checking the current vaccine schedule as compared to 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. Look into systemic pesticides, look into food quality, I can go on and on….don’t be so naive.

  32. novalox says:

    @joe
    [citation needed].
    Why should we believe you, when you have not posted any credible proof at all?

  33. Lawrence says:

    @Joe – looking at the current vaccine schedule, I see a lot less antigens than 10 – 15 years ago – most pesticides nowadays are organic, and food quality – that’s a strawman.
    So, why don’t you post up your evidence as to why you have these opinions anyway?

  34. Joe says:

    49 doses of 14 vaccines before the age of 6 and counting.
    Organic pesticides? What don’t you tell the honey bees about it.
    Food quality, strawman? Shows how much you do not know.

  35. Chris says:

    Please. let’s keep Joe on topic. It seems he has not even read the above article.
    Joe, here is a quote from the article above:

    By banning thimerosal and disrupting critical vaccination programs, millions of the world’s poorest children would no longer have access to vaccines and would remain at great risk of many deadly diseases.

    What is your plan to protect the poorest on this planet from tetanus? Those kids do not have access to the modern hospital care that the little boy in New Zealand had (and he still has to learn to eat and walk again). How would you prevent the almost 200000 deaths from tetanus on this planet each year?

  36. Joe says:

    Chris, why don’t you explain to me why thimersol has to be added to those vaccines? Aren’t you the one always touting our choices here can be thimerosal free?

  37. Lawrence says:

    @Joe – you obviously have no idea the cost & difficulty related to transporting and storing vaccines to be distributed in the Third World…..Thimerasol is a perfectly fine preservative for multi-dose vials that allow for the cost-effective distribution of vaccines to the worst places on Earth.
    If you read the article, you’d know that this has nothing to do with vaccine choice here in the United States.
    Again, you provide no evidence or citations…..you don’t seem to know very much.

  38. Chris says:

    Because multidose vials are much more economical than single dose syringes. Plus there are problems with keeping the vials cold where there is limited electricity.
    Also note, when I ask about the thimerosal choices I include a very important word: American. That is because in an industrial country there is the wealth and infrastructure to pander to the worried-well who insist on no thimerosal. That also holds for those living in Canada, the UK, Germany, Japan, and Australia.
    You really ought to go out and learn a bit more about the would, and the country that you live in. You can start by actually reading the above article, then actually clicking on some of the links (like the NY Times article). Also, if reading is not your style, you should watch some videos like: http://www.gapminder.org/videos/population-growth-explained-with-ikea-boxes/ …. along with many other videos on that site.
    Now go and figure out the answers to my questions. You might actually learn something.

  39. Joe says:

    I have lived all over the world, so I am familar with it. Too bad the poor countries get the sh*t.

  40. Chris says:

    Then you should be able to tell us how to prevent tetanus in poor countries!

  41. Lawrence says:

    Or measles, or mumps, rubella or polio?
    So Joe, where is your evidence again?

  42. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe :
    Really Gray Falcon?
    Try checking the current vaccine schedule as compared to 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. Look into systemic pesticides, look into food quality, I can go on and on….don’t be so naive.

    Do you have any idea why the FDA exists? I’m not talking 10 or 20 years ago, I’m talking last century, with the Industrial Revolution, before the days of environmental and food regulations! Here’s a little advice, Joe: Learn humility before you comment.

  43. Chris says:

    Though the FDA does not have any jurisdiction on the countries affected by this decision.
    I do want to know how Joe proposes to keep children in poor countries from tetanus and other diseases. Because it is important: Reducing child mortality – a moral and environmental imperative.
    Show us how it can be done Joe. You can start by actually reading the above article and the links in it.

  44. Joe says:

    @Gray
    You make my point even stronger. How many vaccines did they get 100 years ago?
    Humility? Do you think you are modest and respectful Gray? Do you think Lara, Chris, Lawrence, and the gang are modest and respectful? Why don’t you lead by example Gray.
    Take my advice, Gray and work on yourself before criticizing others and putting your foot in your mouth.
    Countries will be invited to ratify the treaty, which took four years to negotiate, and I hope they do. There is no reason to send them vaccine’s with thimerosal in it.
    A 2009 study published in the journal Toxicological & Environmental Chemistry found that thimerosal induces neural damage similar to that seen in autism patients—even in low levels. According to the study, “Thimerosal was found to be significantly more toxic than the other metal compounds examined.”
    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02772240802246458
    Tell me again why we got rid of thimerosal in most vaccines here?

  45. Lawrence says:

    @Joe – you do realize why the Geiers’ aren’t reputable sources for anything, right? Up to and including using false hypotheses as an excuse to treat autism children with chelation therapies and chemical castration – not to mention the medical fraud they perpetuated that resulted in the loss of medical licenses across the country.
    The reasons why Thimerosal was removed was a working hypothesis that there might be a risk – subsequent research has shown that that risk doesn’t exist – and given the conditions in many Third World Countries, where electricity and proper freezer storage doesn’t exist, a safe preservative like Thimerosal is necessary to guarantee the safe delivery of vaccines like DTaP to the population.
    So, you did finally provide a source (congratulations) – too bad it is from one of the worst cranks out there.

  46. Joe says:

    @Lawrence
    If there “might be a risk” it shouldn’t be used.
    Did you ever read this on thimerosal from Robert F Kennedy Jr.?
    http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0616-31.htm

  47. Lawrence says:

    @joe – that horrible RFK article?
    Please state his qualifications as an immunologist or vaccine specialist.
    Also, the research on thimerosal was done. The risk hypothesis was thoroughly disproven. So, “there might be a risk” turned into “there is no risk.”

  48. Lawrence says:

    @lilady – good on Salon!

  49. Gray Falcon says:

    @Joe- Are you aware that your argument would only work if vaccinations were the only possible exposure to toxins that any human has ever received? Yes, nobody received any vaccinations over a hundred years ago. Also, up until 1914, heroin was an over-the-counter painkiller. What you are doing is complaining about a lit match in the same room while disregarding being covered with burning napalm.

  50. Chris says:

    Joe, what is your plan to prevent the almost 200000 deaths from tetanus on this planet each year, especially in poor countries?
    By the way, are you aware that Dr. Geier’s medical license was revoked? Or that the article by Robert Kennedy, Jr was removed due to so many errors (see lilady’s Salon link), and that he is a lawyer and not a medical researcher?

  51. Lawrence says:

    @Chris – Geiers, RFK, Thimerosal, toxins…..doesn’t Joe win anti-vaccine crank bingo?

  52. Joe says:

    Gray,
    You forget that I believe vaccine’s are the biggest culprit for the toxi overload.
    See how modest and respectful lilady is? So childish. I didn’t bother to read her link because she is “ignoring” me.

  53. Joe says:

    More modesty from Lawrence Gray….you think I’m bad? Want don’t you have a chat with your cronies?

  54. Lawrence says:

    @Joe – so you won’t read the full retraction of the RFK article because of glaring errors?
    And you’ve shown that your “sources” are the worst anti-vaccine materials out there, full of lies, misinterpretations and misrepresentations – with no real evidence or data to back up anything.
    So, your beliefs are are empty and hollow as the Geiers’ honesty / respectability……

  55. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe :
    Gray,
    You forget that I believe vaccine’s are the biggest culprit for the toxi overload.
    See how modest and respectful lilady is? So childish. I didn’t bother to read her link because she is “ignoring” me.

    How modest are you, thinking what you “believe” is more important than physical evidence? And seriously, how is a few micrograms of something that may or may not be toxic somehow worse than inhaling and consuming toxins on a regular basis? If you have evidence, present it. Don’t just demand I bow down to you.

  56. Lawrence says:

    @Gray – Joe’s “evidence” is all the same old debunked anti-vaccine junk science that has been paraded around for over a decade…..

  57. Chris says:

    So, Joe, what do you “believe” will protect children in poor countries from tetanus, pertussis and diphtheria?

  58. Joe says:

    Lawrence….glaring errors? No…lilady is ignoring me remember. And your opinion is as anecdotal as anyones. You say every source is bad or whatever….according to you. You guys are all so closed minded with never a change. Same old same old.
    Gray….I didn’t ever ask you to bow down to me. You have always been so dramatic. Why do you thjink you can tell me what to believe? I don’t have a right to my own beliefs? You are the one pushing your beliefs on me. I have my experience based on physical evidence, and know what I know. I don’t care if you believe it or not. That is up to you.

  59. Gray Falcon says:

    @Joe- If you had physical evidence, you would have provided it to us when asked, not yelled at us for asking. If you were humble, you would try to earn our respect, rather than demand it like a spoiled child. If you really didn’t care whether I believed or not, you wouldn’t be here.
    One last question. If everyone is entitled to believe in what they want, does that apply to Al-Qaeda?

  60. Lawrence says:

    @joe – your opinions are wrong, based on bad science, bad evidence and horrible people.
    Good luck with that.

  61. Chris says:

    Joe: “You guys are all so closed minded with never a change.”
    If I was close minded I would not be asking you any questions.
    Since this article is about preventing disease in poor countries, I want to know how you would prevent tetanus in those countries. How come you are not giving me any answers?

  62. novalox says:

    @joe
    Since you continue to obfuscate the conversation with your insults, ad hominems, and utter refusal to answer questions, we can all assume that you admit tacitly that your argument has no merit and admits that he cannot answer any questions given to him.
    Also, respect has to be earned. Calling people “cronies” and “childish” do not earn you any respect. But it certainly does earn you some well-deserved mockery and scorn.
    So, answer up. We are all waiting for you to actually put up something that supports your views.
    Also, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. Do try to remember that when posting here again.

  63. Lawrence says:

    @Joe – then why did Salon & Rolling Stone disavow the RFK article – citing serious errors?
    You are relying on bad science and bad opinions for your opinion – therefore your opinion is incorrect and harmful to others….face it, you’re wrong.

  64. Agnes says:

    The Public Health Agency of Canada in 2007 made a statement on thimerosal, saying that much was known about how damaging methymercury was, but little was known about the ethylmercury used in vaccines in the form of thimerosal: “Little is known about ethylmercury metabolism in humans, including whether it has the same potency as a neurotoxin, whether the blood concentration is ever significant and even whether it crosses the blood brain barrier. It is PRESUMED (capitalization mine) that the majority of ethylmercury metabolized from thimerosal is rapidly excreted in the stool.” My child, as well as countless thousands of others, was poisoned by the mercury in the vaccines she got, and has autism as a result. Millions of poor, malnourished children in the Third World will suffer similar damage from the mercury in the vaccines they will receive, in societies with even more deficient support systems for the disabled than ours. And researchers will continue to avoid studying the effects of ethylmercury in the body, since publicly recognizing the danger would put such a crimp in their leading money spinner.

  65. Chris says:

    Agnes, Canada is not a poor country and not the issue in the above article.
    What is your plan to prevent the deaths from diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis in poor countries?

  66. Lara Lohne says:

    Agnes, your opinions aside, more research has been done since this 2007 statement and that research has found the word presumed in this statement can thoroughly and officially be replaced with known. Your belief that your daughter was vaccine damaged is only your belief. Feel free to continue believing that, but we know there is no link between vaccines and autism and particularly thimerosal because if there had been, there would have been a dramatic DECREASE (capitalization mine) in autism rates rather then the increase we have seen since the removal of thimerosal in 2001.
    Conspiracy theories do not become you, or anyone else for that matter. It is extremely costly for vaccine manufactures to make vaccines. The amount that goes into R&D before they even have a workable vaccine to test and the stringent controls each vaccine must past before they can be made available to consumers is costly, and even more so when the vaccines used in developed countries are single dose rather then multidose. But single dose need to be stored completely differently then multidose vials because of the thimerosal preservative that is in the multidose vials that keeps them safe from bacteria, fungus and other pathogens growing in them. Not only that, but vaccine manufactures actually only make about 5% profit from the final sale of vaccines, after their vaccine court contributions and overhead are all covered, they are not actually a big money spinner.
    As organizations move forward toward the global eradication of polio and work toward removing the threat of other diseases in this world’s most disadvantaged populations, they need the best possible, least expensive and most stable vaccines they can get. What has been found, and actually known for a while now, is that thimerosal (if you knew anything about it, other then what anti-vaccine scare mongering has taught you, you would know on a molecular level, the mercurial component within thimerosal is insignificant) is a safe, effective and stable preservative that can be included in the manufacturing and distribution of multidose vaccine vials and given to populations who otherwise would not have access to these life saving therapies.
    Have you ever stopped to think about what our petty argument about a perfectly safe and effective preservative being used in vaccines to give their protection to poor populations looks like to the individuals waiting to get these vaccines? Put yourself in their shoes, or rather their bare foot, more likely then not, and see if you can imagine what it is like knowing your child will probably come down with a disease and without access to proper nutrition, medical care, clean water and housing, will die. Are their children any less important then our children? Is their fear and concern for their children’s health any less real then ours is? That question shouldn’t even have to be asked, but since it is being asked, it’s obvious that you haven’t put yourself where they are, or you would have a completely different perspective about vaccines with or without thimerosal, and you would be grateful that your child is able to get them and give them a chance to survive to adulthood and make a better life for themselves and possibly the rest of the world.
    Thimerosal does not cause autism, it does not cause any neurological damage what so ever. It is excreted from the body in as much as sever days. You would be more likely to have toxic reaction to the methymercury in a can of tuna then the tiny molecule of ethymercury that is used in vaccines. I don’t see you up in arms over tuna manufacturing, why is that? It might be time to face the facts; your daughter was not vaccine damaged, she was born the way she is, just as every other child with autism was. Thimerosal is a perfectly safe and effective preservative that allows life saving vaccines to be given to our poorest inhabitants. Thinking you are doing them a favor by ‘speaking out about the dangers of thimerosal’ is arrogant, and ignorant. You don’t know what they think about all this, so perhaps that should become your new focus.

  67. Joe says:

    Gray….again lots more drama from you. I didn’t “yell” at anybody. Care to point out where I did. Why do you insist in lying and making up all of this stuff?? And please don’t tell me about earning respect around here. This is the ugliest bunch of people I have ever met. When I first started posting here a while back, I was very sincere and polite and you all were still very ugly. You actually taught me to interact with you in this way. And please get over yourself Gray, you are not a Saint by any means.
    Yes, the Al-Qaeda can believe whatever they want.
    Chris…I thought the article was about thimerosal in vaccines that we ship to poor countries. Isn’t that what we are talking about? We don’t need to be sending them vaccines with thimerosal in it.
    Novalox….I admit that you are a peach. Do you even know what cronies means novalox? It means long time friends or companions. You find that offensive? I have been called much worse here. So again, why don’t you get off of your high horse and quit acting like you are innocent and wonderful and loving, because it just aint true. BTW…my own “facts” are bases on my own physical evidence and experience.
    Lawrence….I have no idea why they removed the article but that doesn’t prove anything. The only “fact” that proves is they removed the article.

  68. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe, are you aware that you just condoned a terrorist group?

  69. Gray Falcon says:

    @Joe- I have strong evidence that you tried to discredit me by posting false comments under my name. You don’t have the moral high ground.

  70. Lawrence says:

    @joe – if you read the retraction, you would know exactly why it was removed (due to gross errors).
    Being willfully ignorant doesn’t become you.

  71. Chris says:

    Joe:

    Chris…I thought the article was about thimerosal in vaccines that we ship to poor countries.

    No it is not. Most of those vaccines are not made here. It is about providing safe and affordable vaccines for children in poor countries. Single dose syringes are not affordable, and without adequate storage facilities they are not safe. Thimerosal provides a solution for those vaccines that need it. It is not in every vaccine, like the MMR (which is powder that is kept very cold, and mixed with sterile water and must be used within a certain short time frame).
    Now, again, tell us your plan to protect children in poor countries from diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis.

  72. Joe says:

    Gray….I didn’t condone anything. I said they have a right to their own beliefs and I never claimed any moral high ground. You are the one who constantly brings this up, all about humility etc…btw, I have NEVER posted under your name. Somebody did post under the name “Joe” once that wasn’t me.
    Lawrence….back at you. I don’t find you becoming at all. I didn’t read it because I was being ignored, so it wasn’t meant for me to read.
    Chris….I call BS on all of your excuses. We don’t have to send vaccines with thimerosal in them.

  73. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe: I believe you posted under my name. Aren’t I allowed to believe whatever I want?

  74. Chris says:

    Again, “we” are not sending them vaccines. Many are manufactured in Europe and Asia, including India.
    Do you know why the cold chain is important?
    Please tell us your plan to protect children in poor countries from diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis

  75. Lawrence says:

    So, one of Joe’s “primary” sources is retracted due to gross errors and his response is to put him fingers in his ear and go “lalalalalalal, I can’t here you.”
    Too funny.

  76. Joe says:

    Gray….yes you do…feel free.
    Chris….so many excuses to use thimerosal. Aren’t you smarter than that?
    Lawrence…again, I didn’t read it because it wasn’t addressed to me. I can play the same stupid games.

  77. Gray Falcon says:

    So in other words, I can tell everyone here that you posted under my name, and you won’t object?

  78. novalox says:

    @joe
    So you admit you support al-Qaeda? Wow, I don’t know what to say, except the FBI may want to know about this.
    And yes, your experiences don’t count much, since you have not supported them with any shred of credible evidence.
    But please, continue to post ad hominems and insults, calling people stupid and closed minded isn’t going to win you any arguments. We just need to point out the inaccuracies and flaws in your arguments, you do well enough in making yourself look like you don’t know what you are doing.
    And I bet that joe will come back and make another insult directed at me and all the other logical posters, Should be fun for a few laughs to see what else he can come up with.
    Also BTW, thanks for admitting that Gray and I have the moral high ground over you.

  79. Joe says:

    Gray…beliefs and actions are two different things aren’t they.
    novalox…spreading more lies? When did I say I support al-Qaeda? You are ridiculous. You’re definitely not one of my cronies LOL

  80. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe :
    Gray…beliefs and actions are two different things aren’t they.

    No they aren’t. To believe without acting is not to believe in the first place.

  81. novalox says:

    @joe
    Spreading more lies? I guess you have no shame at all.
    And why do you continue to refuse to answer Chris’ question? You did admit by your nonanswers before that your position is untenable.

  82. Lawrence says:

    @joe – wow, way to show your true colors (once again). We point out, for everyone to see, that one of your “primary” sources was retracted due to gross error & sit there and say “nah ah!”
    Your “beliefs” aren’t backed up by the evidence, the facts or the science, yet you continue to cling to those beliefs…..and you have the audacity to claim we have closed minds?

  83. Chris says:

    Joe:

    Chris….so many excuses to use thimerosal. Aren’t you smarter than that?

    Obviously not. That is why I keep asking you about your plan to prevent diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis in children living in poor countries. Yet you just lob insults at me, and do not enlighten me on a better solution. Why is that?
    Let us try again: Please tell us your plan to protect children in poor countries from diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis

  84. Lawrence says:

    @joe – you call them “excuses” and the rest of the world calls them FACTS. Would you rather hundreds of thousands of children become infected and tens of thousands die because of your misguided clinging to bad science?

  85. Lawrence says:

    @joe – at one time, it was the standing hypothesis that tomatoes were poisonous….then we figured out they weren’t.
    At one time, it was thought Thimerosal might pose a risk, but further research showed the idea of risk was incorrect.
    Why do you deny the actual research and science?

  86. Chris says:

    I’d like to know Joe’s “excuse” for not providing a viable, safe and affordable solution to prevent diseases in children living in poor countries.

  87. lilady says:

    @ Agnes in Canada: How about the Public Health Agency of Canada’s current (2012) statement about Thimerosal?
    http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/q_a_thimerosal-eng.php
    Do try to keep up with current science, Agnes.

  88. Joe says:

    Gray…sorry you can’t stop yourself and control your actions like the rest of us.

  89. Joe says:

    novalox? You don’t make any sense.

  90. Joe says:

    Lawrence….we’ve already been over this…removing the artcile proves nothing.

  91. Joe says:

    Chris…they are excuses and you know it.
    Lawrence…if thimerosal is so safe and harmless than why didn’t they bring it back?

  92. Joe says:

    Chris… “I’d like to know Joe’s “excuse” for not providing a viable, safe and affordable solution to prevent diseases in children living in poor countries.”
    Are you paying me to do this? Cause I’ve got to make a living.

  93. Lawrence says:

    @Joe – removing the article because it proved to be riddled with errors, misrepresentations, and misinterpretations of data proves everything – the hypothesis presented was unfounded, had no evidence behind it & it was bad journalism….care to contest the facts?
    In this country, since we went to non-thimerosal containing vaccines, the cost to go back just isn’t worth it – especially since it is economical for single-dose vaccines here.
    In other countries, that lack the infrastructure that we have, multi-dose vials are standard, which require a presevative…..and since the science doesn’t back up the danger you suggest, there is no reason for a change – otherwise, you would be putting the live of tens of thousands and perhaps hundreds of thousands at risk.
    Again, you’re backing a failed hypothesis – care to try again?

  94. novalox says:

    @joe
    Do try to stay on topic, although your attempts at insult are amusing, just to see how little you have to support your point, and how unoriginal your ad hominems are.
    Also, insults are not a form of argument, so try to please back up your argument with actual verifiable citation, so right now, you have made no sense at all with your arguments.

  95. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe :
    Gray…sorry you can’t stop yourself and control your actions like the rest of us.

    If you believe something, you act according to that belief. Do you claim otherwise?

  96. Joe says:

    Gray….no, you can have a thought or belief and not act on it.
    You said you believed I imperosnted you, fine beleive it, but once you act on it, you may suffer the consequences. Otheriwse, you can keep the belief to yourself and not suffer the consequences.
    The al-Q can have their beliefs, but if that act on them and hurt people, that isn’t OK.

  97. Joe says:

    novalox….what don’t you look at your own comments, and give yourself a reprimand? Talk about only making harrasing comments and noting else. Everything you say is an insult, so I guess you don’t have much of an argument to make.

  98. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe :
    Gray….no, you can have a thought or belief and not act on it.
    You said you believed I imperosnted you, fine beleive it, but once you act on it, you may suffer the consequences. Otheriwse, you can keep the belief to yourself and not suffer the consequences.
    The al-Q can have their beliefs, but if that act on them and hurt people, that isn’t OK.

    So what you’re saying is that you’ll still vaccinate your children, right?

  99. Chris says:

    Joe:

    Are you paying me to do this? Cause I’ve got to make a living.

    Now that is a lousy excuse. It now makes us wonder who is paying you to post those crazy citations. (ex) Dr. Geier? Robert Kennedy, Jr?
    If you claim that the actual economic and safety reasons that have been cited by WHO, UNICEF, GAVI, and PATH are just excuses, you need to provide a viable alternative.

  100. Gray Falcon says:

    Seriously, Joe is claiming someone’s beliefs will have no effect on their actions. That is delusion on the highest level. Does he even understand what the word “believe” means?

  101. novalox says:

    @joe
    Still trying to divert the conversation, joe?
    You still haven’t made any point, and with every attempt at insult, you show that your standing here is much, much lower than the rest of us.
    But please, try again with your pathetic attempt at insult. You still cannot answer Chris’, Gray’s, or Lawrence’s questions honestly, why should we believe you?

  102. Joe says:

    Gray… the point is you don’t have to act on all of your beliefs. You belive I impersonated you….does that mean you have to complain to somebody about?? Are you saying if you beleive that, then you have to complain about it? You can’t stop yourself??

  103. Joe says:

    novalox…you sound like a broken record, as I do reolying to you.

  104. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe :
    Gray… the point is you don’t have to act on all of your beliefs. You belive I impersonated you….does that mean you have to complain to somebody about?? Are you saying if you beleive that, then you have to complain about it? You can’t stop yourself??

    It’s not about “not being able to stop oneself”, it’s part of what “believing in something” means! By definition, believing in something influences one’s actions!

  105. Lawrence says:

    @Joe – quit trying to derail the discussion with your debunked and incorrect theories.

  106. Joe says:

    Chris,,, since when am I in charge?? I trust there are people that can figure out a way to send vaccines (without thimerosal) to the poor countries if they really wanted too. But they don’t want to, which brings us back to the original point. If thimerosal is dangerous. I say yes, you say no. End of story.

  107. Joe says:

    Talk to Gray Lawrence…he has a one track mind that is always way off topic. I guess I could ignore him.

  108. Joe says:

    Gray….that’s not the eaxmple you provided….you said and I quote, “So in other words, I can tell everyone here that you posted under my name, and you won’t object?”
    That’s not a belief…that is an action against me. Or you can do it and suffer the consequences of your actions. Or you can believe it and take no action. See how simple that is.

  109. novalox says:

    @joe
    Considering that you consistently refuse to answer any questions honestly, why should I not refrain from asking you to answer them honestly?

  110. Joe says:

    What is it that I am not honsest about nova?
    May I ask why you are so unpleasant to be around?

  111. Chris says:

    Joe:

    Chris,,, since when am I in charge?? I trust there are people that can figure out a way to send vaccines (without thimerosal) to the poor countries if they really wanted too.

    Then why aren’t you discussing it with WHO, UNICEF, GAVI, and PATH? You are complaining that the reasons we have given are “excuses.” Yet you have not given them any alternative affordable solution. Is this because you have no idea about the actual issues?

  112. Lawrence says:

    @joe – I say, because all the evidence says so.
    You say, because you believe cranks, liars and rely on discredited myths.

  113. Gray Falcon says:

    @Joe: If I believed that that you wronged me, I would tell everyone. This does not make me someone who lacks self-control, because I would see absolutely nothing wrong with my action, so there would be nothing to control. Simple as that. And if you want to go back on topic: Since you believe vaccines are toxic, you feel it is necessary to tell people not to vaccinate, leaving them vulnerable to a variety of diseases, and possibly killing them.

  114. Joe says:

    Chris….Thimerosal is dangerous and should not be in vaccines….period.

  115. Joe says:

    If the al-q believe americans are evil….fine. They have every right to believe it.
    If they hurt people because of those beliefs, then that is wrong. Whatever your belief is, you don’t have a right intentionally hurt people.
    This is the example you picked Gray, and the context we were discussing.
    Please keep trying to reword it all to fit your needs.

  116. Joe says:

    Are you all bored today? Nobody else to harass on another site somewhere?

  117. Gray Falcon says:

    Al-Qaeda does not simply believe Americans are evil. What they believe is that women are sub-human, and that it is perfectly acceptable to kill civilians in war, which is against laws set in the Koran. They genuinely believe they have the right to hurt others, including the children of their own people. That is what they believe. And you said you’re okay with that.
    Now, remember, you were the one complaining about me being off-topic in #107, so you have no right to complain when I switch back on subject. So, as you implicitly requested of me: Since you believe vaccines are toxic, you feel it is necessary to tell people not to vaccinate, leaving them vulnerable to a variety of diseases, and possibly killing them.

  118. Lara Lohne says:

    @Joe, are we all to take your word for it that thimerosal is dangerous even when a decade or more of research shows otherwise? Do you possess some great secret power to detect dangerous compounds that the rest of us should take what you say over the multiple scientific studies that say you are wrong? If thimerosal is as dangerous as you say, where is your data showing what you claim is correct? Based on what science has found, you are wrong. Period. It doesn’t matter how strongly you believe something to be true, nor how many times you say it nor the amount of conviction in your tone when you say it. If it is wrong, it is wrong and you claiming otherwise just makes you look silly. Spare yourself this embarrassment, Joe. The hypotheses you are basing your belief on have been proved incorrect, no matter how much you would like it to be otherwise.

  119. Joe says:

    Gray…are you a compulsive liar? I never said I was Ok with those particular beliefs, I said people have a right to their own beliefs. There is a difference.
    Lara…really?…There are hundreds of studies proving thimerosal is not safe. I’ll spend some time and send you some links when I have time to do it OK?

  120. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe :
    Gray…are you a compulsive liar? I never said I was Ok with those particular beliefs, I said people have a right to their own beliefs. There is a difference.

    Care to explain the difference? Also, there’s still the matter that your actions can have potentially lethal consequences. What’s your answer to that?

  121. Joe says:

    Just like I believe in free speech but may hate your speech.
    I can’t tell you what to believe, but if you take action, your are responsible for it and will suffer the consequences.

  122. Lawrence says:

    @joe – can’t wait to see those links to published, peer-reviewed papers from actual experts (not Wakefield or the Geiers, for instance).

  123. Gray Falcon says:

    Joe :
    Just like I believe in free speech but may hate your speech.
    I can’t tell you what to believe, but if you take action, your are responsible for it and will suffer the consequences.

    So, are you willing to suffer the consequences of your discouraging people from life-saving medicine?

  124. Joe says:

    Sure Gray (sarcasm)

  125. Gray Falcon says:

    @Joe- So you admit that vaccination saves lives? Because it does.

  126. novalox says:

    @joe
    Still refusing to answer the questions, joe?

  127. Chris says:

    Joe:

    Chris….Thimerosal is dangerous and should not be in vaccines….period.

    That is not my question: Please tell us your plan to protect children in poor countries from diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis in a safe and affordable manner.

  128. Gray Falcon says:

    @Joe- So basically, you’d prefer we not argue with your beliefs, which simply involves communicating online, and rather we deal with your actions, which will require physically restraining you from posting.

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  130. Jeanne Blache says:

    Since mercury free vaccines are on the market why not make parents aware so they can make an inform choice and decide for themselves if they want mercury in their childrens body or not. Personally anyone who decide to who put thimerosol – which is the second most toxic poison in the world must be insane. We can all agree to disagree each to their own.

  131. Lawrence says:

    @Jeanne – please don’t exaggerate…..I would recommend you actual research the substance you are talking about before lying about it.
    Also, several pediatric vaccines never had thimerosol in them (like the MMR) and the remainder (in the US) had thimerosol removed over a decade ago – with the exception of the flu vaccine, which as both versions available.
    No research has ever linked thimerosol to any adverse effects in vaccines, so again, please do some real study first, before lying once again.

  132. Chris says:

    Ms. Blache, I have an idea. Why don’t you volunteer with the organizations that are providing the vaccinations for certain third world countries like WHO, UNICEF, GAVI, PATH and others. Then you can go house to house in places like Pakistan, Liberia or Angola and explain all of your concerns.

  133. novalox says:

    @jeanne
    [citation needed]

  134. Roma says:

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    earlier technologies, it’s remarkable article.

  135. MK says:

    Anybody here going to collect on this offer?
    Kennedy/DeNiro Challenge
    “We hereby issue a challenge to American journalists (and others) who have been assuring the public about the safety of mercury in vaccines. We will pay $100,000 to the first journalist, or other individual, who can point to a peer-reviewed scientific study demonstrating that thimerosal is safe in the amounts contained in vaccines currently being administered to American children and pregnant women.”
    ~Robert F Kennedy Jr. and Robert DeNiro
    https://worldmercuryproject.org/unique-challenge-media-american-people/

  136. Chris says:

    You post on a four year old article that silly regurgitation of Jock Doubleday and his goal post moving “challenge.” It is hilarious.
    Are you willing to tell us which vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule is only available with thimerosal? Do not mention influenza because there are three that do not contain thimerosal.

  137. Lawrence says:

    If you read the fine print of the challenge, they don’t name the judges & have determined that any result must be unanimous as well.
    Its a cheap PR stunt.

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