Home > Parent Perspective, Preventable Diseases, Seasonal Flu > Getting Kids Their Flu Vaccine Just May Save Their Life

Getting Kids Their Flu Vaccine Just May Save Their Life

Each year, about this time, I think about a friend who died from influenza.  It couldn’t have been more of a shock.  He was completely fit.  Healthy.  A relatively young man in his early thirties.  Yet, despite all that, influenza took hold and within a matter of days his heart failed, he fell into a coma and eventually he died leaving his beautiful wife and infant daughter behind.

Even as we mourned him, I still didn’t consider the flu to be a significant risk to myself or my children.  I guess it’s just human nature.  We tend to want to think these “fluke” things are just that – strange, unexplained rarities that will never repeat themselves.  But I couldn’t have been more wrong.

Fortunately, in the 11 years since we said goodbye to our friend, doctors, scientists and public health administrators have made great strides in their effort to protect people from the serious consequences of influenza.  The most important development has probably been the introduction of the universal flu vaccine recommendations.  This broad-based recommendation was preceded by a steady expansion of pediatric influenza immunization recommendations that were intended to reduce the disease burden that was being observed among children.

Luke Duvall was a high school football player when the flu landed him in the hospital where he spent several weeks battling for his life.

Luke Duvall was a high school football player when the flu landed him in the hospital where he spent several weeks battling for his life.

There is nothing worse that seeing our own children suffer.  Except, of course, witnessing their loss of life.

Unfortunately, it is estimated that each year 20,000 children are hospitalized and roughly 100 die as a result of influenza in the United States alone.  If you think childhood influenza is only dangerous to children who have other underlying health conditions, you may be surprised to learn that between 2004 and 2012, 829 U.S. children under the age of 18 died from flu–related causes and 40% of those deaths occurred in children with no known medical conditions.  However, the current recommendations – that every person over the age of six months get a flu vaccine each and every year – are intended to eventually reduce these numbers.

What motivates a parent to get their child vaccinated?

According to a five-year progress report from the Childhood Influenza Immunization Coalition, there are several major motivators that influence parents to get a flu vaccine for their child.  These include a greater awareness that the vaccine is our best available protection against a serious disease that can result in hospitalization or death, and the fact that even if the vaccine can’t completely eliminate the risk of influenza, that it will likely lessen the severity if their child does fall victim to influenza. It’s important to note that a strong recommendation from a health care provider remains one the most important influencers for parents in making the decision to vaccinate.  Yet, research confirms that parents need to be reminded every year.

So, if you’re a parent reading this, consider this your reminder.

Recent news reports indicate that flu activity in the U.S. has surged over the course of the last week with an emphasis in the southern states.  With such a big jump in cases, it’s important that you get yourself and your family vaccinated today.  It’s not too late, but there’s no reason to wait.

For more information on the impact of childhood influenza, and to help locate where to get a flu vaccine, visit the Families Fighting Flu website.  While you’re there, pay some tribute to the many families who have suffered the ultimate loss and read their personal stories of influenza.  You can also share any of the numerous videos at the Shot By Shot website where stories like the one of Brittney below, remind us of the unfortunate impact of childhood influenza.

  1. Addi
    December 4, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    Luke’s death was certainly tragic. But parents must also remember childen like Kaylynne Matten, a healthy Vermont first-grader who got a flu vaccine a year ago this month, had a high fever the next day, and died en route to the hospital a couple of days after that. Her parents believe she died because of a reaction to the flu vaccine. Many others have been paralyzed by this vaccine, some temporarily, some permanently. It is a difficult decision to make, but until ten years ago, routine flu vaccines were not recommended for pregnant women, infants, or children. since flu is very rarely dangerous for them, while the shot sometimes is.

    Like

  2. Chris
    December 4, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    Okay, I have posted two comments have both have disappeared into the ether.

    There was link to a news story that said the little girl had an inflamed heart, and there was no evidence it was from the vaccine.

    Like

  3. Chris
    December 4, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    By the way, this has been discussed multiple times here:
    https://shotofprevention.com/2011/04/12/why-worry-about-the-unvaccinated/#comment-7008

    Where Kelly says: “Cia, the toxicology report indicates that Kaylynne did not die from the flu vaccine. You have been told this before, yet you continue to spread this falsehood.” , and then includes a link where this was explained to Cia/Addi before.

    Like

  4. dingo199
    December 4, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    Addi, you are correct, Luke’s death is tragic and it is rare to see someone die from flu.

    But death from flu vaccine is vanishingly rare, and far, far less likely to happen in a given flu season than death from flu, which is several orders of magnitude more probable.

    Kaylynne’s death is not even confirmed as being due to the vaccine – it just happened to occur in temporal proximity to a vaccination (and it was 4 days after, and not 2). It could equally could have been linked to any other agonal event. In fact the conclusion was she had viral myocarditis, something that can happen out of the blue in healthy people but would not occur as a result of vaccination (the flu jab she had consisted of killed, inert virus anyhow). Kaylynne’s mother is actually not completely set against flu vaccine either – here is what she says: ” “If you do get the flu shot, keep a close eye on your child afterward. If you even suspect something’s going wrong, get your child checked right away.”
    http://www.7dvt.com/2012flu-shot-or-not-state-health-officials-warn-against-alarmist-reaction-young-girls-death

    Regarding complications like paralysis after vaccine, I hope you realize that conditions like GBS (which I assume you refer to) are around 10 times more likely to happen if you catch flu than if you get vaccinated. In fact that comparison relies on a slight rise in GBS incidence following flu vaccine in the distant past – One recent very comprehensive post-vaccine study in China of 90 million vaccinees showed only 11 had GBS (which might have been from other triggers anyway)
    http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/69491/title/No_flu_vaccine_link_to_Guillain-Barr%C3%A9_syndrome_found_

    Please get things in proportion and perspective, and stop spreading furphies. Flu vaccine may only be 50% effective, but if it can prevent half of the 200,000 hospitalizations each year from flu, or half of the tens of thousands of deaths it will be a great outcome.

    Like

  5. lilady
    December 5, 2012 at 1:42 am

    Stilling fabricating stories out of whole cloth, Parker?

    The sad case of Kalynne Matten’s death four days after a flu vaccine was discussed on the “Patriot Nurse” blog and you, your sockies and other assorted trolls were informed that she died from viral myocarditis.

    Show us the autopsy reports where children and adults have died from receiving a seasonal flu vaccine, Parker.

    Put or shut up, Parker.

    Like

  6. jill
    December 5, 2012 at 11:22 pm

    Like

  7. Chris
    December 6, 2012 at 12:22 am

    Jill, thanks for the laugh! I did not know that non-story was still making the rounds. I see you did not include the follow story from Inside Edition where she was perfectly fine until she saw their cameras, and then she put on a fake accent. Here is that video:

    The neurologist that was interviewed, Dr. Novella, wrote a series of blog posts about it:
    http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?s=desiree+jennings

    Like

  8. Addie
    December 6, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    An inflamed heart can be the result of the inflammation caused by a vaccine reaction. Kaylynne was healthy the day of her flu shot, extremely ill the next day, dead three days later. She died in her mother’s arms in the ambulance. Her parents think her death was from a vaccine reaction, and such an event is very plausible given the time frame of what happened to her. You are free to think that her death was not caused by a vaccine reaction, but her family and many of us believe that it was.

    Désirée Jennings was severely damaged by a routine flu vaccine, going into convulsions if she tried to walk forwards, but was able to run and walk backwards. She was treated with alternative medicine, and apparently found great improvement. I personally would be completely unable to fake the convulsions you can see in the video of her on Youtube, and cannot say if there are people strange and talented enough to fake the violent convulsions in order to get publicity when they hadn’t really suffered a vaccine reaction. My opinion is that she wasn’t faking it, but I understand that you may have a different opinion.

    Lisa Marks Smith became paralyzed after a flu vaccine, and was compensated in Vaccine Court for her four years of disability, which they adjudged had been proven to have been caused by the vaccine.

    Randall Neustaedter in the Flu Guide says that recovery from flu gives immunity to the specific strains of flu that were involved, and partial immunity to future flus which recycle parts of the old flu. Older people were less affected than younger people by the H1N1 flu three years ago, and it is thought that it is because they had partial immunity from previous exposure to specific parts of that flu that were present in previous flus, maybe in the swine flu of 1976.

    Both the flu and the vaccine can sometimes cause death or severe disability. Ten years ago, the flu vaccine was not recommended for pregnant, nursing women, babies, or children, because these groups so rarely had a dangerous case of the flu. Dr. Sears in the first edition of The Vaccine Book had the flu vaccine at the top of his list of reactive vaccines.

    I have never had a flu shot, nor ever will, nor will my daughter. We have had the flu a number of times, and I at least felt as though I were going to die. The H1N1 flu gave me a severe sore throat that lasted for two weeks, and left me with a horrible, racking cough that lasted for over a month. But even so, I’m glad I went through it, and glad I have a stronger, more prepared immune system as a result of the experience. I will continue to never get a flu shot, but you guys are certainly free to get as many as you like. After the congressional hearing on vaccines and autism last week, I would imagine that one result will be that they at least prohibit the use of thimerosal in any flu vaccines used in the U.S. Do you guys insist on a mercury-free flu vaccine from a single-use vial for three dollars more, or are you so convinced that mercury never hurt anyone that you take it from the multiple-use vial? I really am curious about that.

    Like

  9. Lara Lohne
    December 6, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    cia, these are all anecdotal stories and the fact that you use the words that you do is just proof it’s an emotional ploy and not scientific. What does the data say about any of these cases? The data say none of these things were caused by vaccinations ( with possibly one exception) and to say otherwise is just plain foolish. Everyone is free to believe what they want to believe, but when facts and data show that belief to be unfounded and false, to continue to cling to that belief is immature and ignorant and just plain stubbornness. Not once in that entire rambling comment did you provide any link to any study that shows that any of the things you claim have been proved in a clinical setting. You have been told time and time again, if you wish to engage in actual, intelligent discourse relating to vaccinations, bring more to the table then stories with your own bent twist to the moral behind them. You have to provide data, real data, if you can’t, you are simply wasting everyone’s time. All your claims sound like now is grasping at straws. Your argument has been proven incorrect. For you to continue to claim belief in it, actually makes you appear pathetic. There is no reason anyone needs to suffer through weeks and months of illness to gain immunity and run the risk of possible death when one can just get a shot and be done with it. I don’t know anyone, besides you, who would rather be sick then not. You are an enigma, and not in a good way and you show callous disregard for suffering, real suffering, that people have to go through and have gone through, when they’ve suffered through these diseases. If you honestly want people to believe your words and claims and beliefs, provide scientific data that prove your beliefs. If you can’t, take your religion elsewhere, nobody is buying it here.

    Like

  10. Chris
    December 6, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Again, Addie/addi/cia/jill/whatever, the report from the VT health folks said that the influenza vaccine was not found in her heart. You’ve been told this several times (as noted above by me, Dingo, and lilady). If you wish to use that story again then post the official document from the VT Health Commissioner confirming it was the vaccine.

    Ms. Jennings has some real problems, but they are not physical and are not from any vaccine.

    Your anecdotes are worthless. Again, as I said before on the other thread where you posted as someone else:

    Please post the title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed article that there is a greater risk from the thimerosal-free influenza vaccine (there are at least four of them) and getting influenza.

    Like

  11. Chris
    December 6, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    I have scheduled flu shots for the two kids living at home and myself for the Monday after finals week. I was going to do it earlier we all had colds in late October, and they both get busy with college classes.

    Like

  12. Hobbit
    December 6, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    “Getting Kids Their Flu Vaccine Just May Save Their Life”

    or, on the other hand….it just might kill them or make them very, very sick.

    Like

  13. Chris
    December 6, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Hobbit/cia/addi/whatever:

    or, on the other hand….it just might kill them or make them very, very sick.

    How? Give some actual evidence as in: Please post the title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed article that there is a greater risk from the thimerosal-free influenza vaccine (there are at least four of them) and getting influenza.

    Like

  14. Hobbit
    December 6, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    Chris:
    So you believe thimerosal is bad? Is that why you brought it up?

    This year, the 2012/2013 season offers three out of six flu vaccines which contain thimerosal and all are FDA approved. Although the FDA gave a two year deadline to remove thimerosal from vaccines after they were banned in 1997, they continue to appear in vaccine formulations. Why?

    Other than a depressed immune system with a side serving of carcinogenic, immunotoxic, neurotoxic, and sterility agents, this year’s flu shot has nothing to offer you; it’s effectiveness in preventing the flu is less than a placebo.

    Here are your choices this year:
    AFLURIA 2012/2013
    Manufactured by CSL Limited
    Ingredients/Excipients:
    Beta-Propiolactone: Carcinogen
    Monobasic Potassium Phosphate: Immunotoxin
    Neomycin: Immunotoxin
    Polymyxin: Neurotoxin
    Potassium Chloride: Neurotoxin
    Sodium Deoxycholate: Immunotoxin

    FLUVARIX 2012/2013
    Manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline
    Ingredients/Excipients:
    Formaldehyde : Carcinogen
    Gentamicin Sulfate: Nephrotoxic
    Hydrocortisone: Myelin Degenerator
    Octoxynol 10 (TRITON X-100): Immunotoxin
    Polysorbate 80 (Tween 80): Sterilie Agent
    Sodium Deoxycholate: Immunotoxin

    FLULAVAL 2012/2013
    Manufactured by ID Biomedical Corporation
    Ingredients/Excipients:
    Formaldehyde: Carcinogen
    Sodium Deoxycholate: Immunotoxin
    Thimerosal: Neurotoxin

    FLUMIST 2012/2013
    Manufactured by MedImmune Vaccines Inc.
    Ingredients/Excipients:
    Gelatin: Allergen
    Gentamicin: Nephrotoxic
    Monobasic Potassium Phosphate: Immunotoxin
    Monosodium Glutamate: Neurotoxin

    FLUVIRIN 2012/2013
    Manufactured by Novartis Vaccines
    Ingredients/Excipients:
    Beta-Propiolactone: Carcinogen
    Neomycin: Immunotoxin
    Polymyxin: Neurotoxin
    Thimerosal: Neurotoxin

    6. FLUZONE 2012/2013
    Manufactured by Sanofi Pasteur
    Ingredients/Excipients:
    Gelatin: Allergen
    Formaldehyde: Carcinogen
    Octoxynol 10 (TRITON X-100): Immunotoxin
    Thimerosal: Neurotoxin

    Each dose from the multi-dose vial or from the prefilled syringe may also contain residual amounts of egg proteins. Chick Embryonic Fluid is a foreign animal proteins and genetic information injected into the human body. Chicken DNA?!

    Like

  15. Chris
    December 6, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    Um, I hate to tell you this, but none of those are Pubmed indexed papers. Your body creates more formaldehyde than what is in any vaccine. You don’t seem to realize that vaccines only have a teeny tiny bit of fluid, so they contain a very tiny amount of anything. And certainly much less than what you encounter elsewhere.

    And of course, I must be about to poison my family! Because I just made <a href="http://www.marthastewart.com/348219/peppermint-marshmallows"<peppermint marshmallows to send to them (they were a hit last year). Also, yesterday morning I had chicken DNA when I soft boiled chick embryos. I can’t have any Polysorbate 80 because the kids ate all of the ice cream.

    Also, on this list I count at least four flu vaccines without thimerosal (actually five).

    So to repeat: Please post the title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed article that there is a greater risk from the thimerosal-free influenza vaccine (there are at least four of them) and getting influenza.

    Like

  16. Chris
    December 6, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    Ugh, I screwed up the URL. It should be: http://www.marthastewart.com/348219/peppermint-marshmallows . Check it out, it requires three whole packets of unflavored gelatin. It does require a good stand mixer.

    Like

  17. Hobbit
    December 6, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    I count 3 with thimerosal and 3 with out.

    You didn’t answer my question. Is thimerosal bad for you? Why are you so concerned to get the vaccine without thimerosal?

    Good luck to you and your family.

    Like

  18. Chris
    December 6, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    The left-most column has nine rows, and at least five of them have a thimerosal free version. Did you scroll down? By the way, thimerosal was only really “banned” from pediatric vaccines, not those for adults. Adults are generally larger than kids, and [sarcasm] way past the age of getting autism! [/sarcasm]

    Thimerosal is not bad in the doses that are used. I am not concerned about getting a vaccine with thimerosal, but folks like you seem to have an issue with it and other random ingredients. Your list even included gelatin as something to be feared.

    In the future when you state that some will “it just might kill them or make them very, very sick” make sure you have verifiable scientific evidence to back it up. That does not mean a list of what you think are scary ingredients (eggs? ice cream emulsifier?). It means real research done by competent scientists, and the best place to find those studies is at http://www.pubmed.gov.

    Like

  19. lilady
    December 6, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    @ Parker and Sockies

    Liar, Liar Pants on Fire.

    Desiree Jennings having a reaction to a vaccine is just as plausible as your daughter’s vacccine-induced-encephalitis…or your vaccine-induced- Multiple Sclerosis.

    You really are an odious troll and a pathetic excuse for a human being.

    Like

  20. Chris
    December 7, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    What is worse than a sock puppet, is a sock puppet who pretends to be someone spouting stuff that person would never say. Gray Falcon would never say anything like that.

    And someone who committed a financial crime and was only a minor author on a couple of studies does invalidate either of those studies, nor the other dozen or so that show there is no relationship between vaccines and autism.

    Like

  21. Chris
    December 7, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    Must correct sentence: does not invalidate either of those studies,

    Like

  22. Logic
    December 7, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    Chris: When a criminal like Thorsen produces a study the same thing that every reputable scientist says, it’s obviously evidence that all the scientists are wrong – just like it’s obvious that when a crook like Wakefield produces a study that says the opposite of what every reputable scientist says, it’s also proof that all the scientists are wrong. Now to you it might seem that there’s a double standard, but top anti-vax Googlers have shown that it’s simple logic

    Like

  23. Gray Falcon
    December 7, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    Gray Falcon….I am the original Gray Falcon and I don’t appreciate you imitating me.

    Your comment is like believing leeches, witchcraft, and human sacrifice are all good and believing that seat belts don’t actually save lives…or maybe you still believe the world is flat?

    Like

  24. Chris
    December 7, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    Logic, that is hilarious. I guess that would be the Poul Thorsen Gambit.

    At least the sock puppet pretending to be Gray Falcon got on part right, Thorsen was added to the Office of the Inspector General’s Most Wanted Fugitives. Some folks elsewhere saying it was the FBI’s Most Wanted list. Also note the papers on vaccines and autism were published in 2002, that says he committed financial fraud after 2004. From reading the linked to page, it looks like he took the money but there was none given for the stated research. The others on that page mostly stole from Medicare, and some were for several millions of dollars.

    Like

  25. Chris
    December 7, 2012 at 11:36 pm

    Fake Falcon:

    Do you really think he is credible now? Taking money from Pharma and now he shows he would do anything for money.

    The money was taken from the Centers for Disease Control, an agency of the US government. It was our tax money.

    And perhaps before you post on a blog you read it for a while to learn who posts regularly. For as far as we are concerned you are “Joe” or “Truth Seeker” coming back using the ‘nym of a person who asked you too many questions that you refused to answer.

    Like

  26. Chris
    December 7, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    Fake Falcon:

    21 of the 24 government studies that the CDC says prove vaccines don’t cause autism.
    Not credible!

    Why? Explain clearly with supporting scientific documentation. That means posting the title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed papers that support your statements. We simply cannot accept statements without evidence, especially from someone who is pretending to be someone else.

    Also, apologize to Gray Falcon and pick a different username.

    Like

  27. Chris
    December 7, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    Like you, Fake Falcon?

    Like

  28. Chris
    December 7, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    Also, please explain how Madsen, Hviid, Mrozek-Budzyn, Tozzi, Hornig, Uchiyama, Honda, D’Souza, Doja, Fombonne, Smeeth, DeStefano, Lingam, Makela Thompson, Taylor and and Schechter are crooks? How does the financial fraud committed by Thorsen invalidate their science?

    Like

  29. Chris
    December 7, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    Thank you Brown Rabbit for taking another username.

    Like

  30. December 8, 2012 at 6:04 am

    @Chris – so, if the anti-vaxers can find one crooked scientist, it invalidates all research everywhere….does that mean if I can find one anti-vax crook, that it invalidates their position as well (say, the Geiers, for example)?

    Like

  31. lilady
    December 8, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Fake Falcon states this, “Sorry I didn’t know this name (‘Gray Falcon’) was taken.

    Hmmm, what are the chances that a new poster here, comes up with that ‘nym?

    I suspect we are dealing with a sockie here…the same sockie that used Lara Lohne’s last name as a ‘nym and then used dingo199’s ‘nym in its Latin form, as a ‘nym.

    http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/accounts/Canis_lupus_dingo/

    @ Lawrence…you came up with TWO anti-vax crooks (Mark and David Geier), who committed financial fraud AND science fraud. How about the DAN! “practitioners” who commit financial fraud, science fraud AND who commit medical abuse on their developmentally disabled patients.

    Like

  32. Gray Falcon
    December 8, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    @Brown Rabbit – I have no respect for those who make no effort whatsoever to find the truth.

    Like

  33. December 8, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Brown Rabbit:

    The difference is the CDC is basing their information on his body of work,

    Please provide the title, journal and dates of the paper that are based on Thorsen’s work with direct quotes from those paper acknowledging him. Also list all of papers that list him as a primary author.

    Plus show he directly influenced these researchers (from the list I posted earlier: Hviid, Mrozek-Budzyn, Tozzi, Hornig, Uchiyama, Honda, D’Souza, Doja, Fombonne, Smeeth, DeStefano, Lingam, Makela Thompson, Taylor and and Schechter.

    I am sorry, but we need something more substantial than you just saying so. You need to prove how that one person dismantled over a decade of research performed on three continents using the resources of public health agencies of half a dozen countries.

    Like

  34. Lara Lohne
    December 8, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Brown Rabbit :
    The difference is the CDC is basing their information on his body of work, He is a known criminal and would do anything for money. He was paid off by the vaccine manufacturers to have pre conceived outcomes on his study’s.

    Point 1 made by you: “CDC is basing their information on his body of work.”
    Where is your citation that says the CDC and every other health organization in the world is basing their statements that ‘scientific evidence has not been found to support the hypothesis that vaccines cause autism’ only on the scientific data from the studies where Thorsen played a very minor role?

    Point 2 made by you: “He is a known criminal and would do anything for money.”
    Do you know him on a personal basis? This is a very broad claim you have made, and honestly, not one anyone can make unless they are in a personal and intimate relationship with him. He did about the same thing many other people have done, committed financial fraud that really didn’t hurt anyone, he just happened to get caught doing it. I am not justifying his actions, because his actions, unfortunately call into question the entire study that he was a part of, even if he was only part of it in a very small way that did not effect the outcome of the actual data.

    Point 3 made by you: “He was paid off by the vaccine manufacturers to have preconceived outcomes on his study.”
    This isn’t possible as he was a very minor participant and didn’t actually analyze the data that was collected. It was not ‘his study’ but a study where he participated. If you read the reports, his role was overseeing the financial aspect of the study, which is how and why he had access to the money to begin with. The funds that he stole were US tax payer dollars, paid to fund the study by the federal government, not from pharmaceutical companies. Unless you are trying to say that his whole reason for committing this financial fraud to begin with is because he was given money from the vaccine manufacturers to commit fraud and to thus cause the study results to be thrown into question by individuals like you. Honestly, that idea is contrary to what actually has happened so unless you have proof that money exchanged hands between vaccine manufacturers and Thorsen, your are kind of talking out of you a**.

    Your treatment of Gray Falcon is officially deplorable and I will be notifying the blog moderator regarding your insulting and abusive behavior and language toward him. I expect we won’t be seeing much more of you, until you figure out someone else’s nym to impersonate.

    Like

  35. Lara Lohne
    December 8, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Oops, too many quotes I guess. My comment is in moderation.

    Like

  36. Chris
    December 8, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Brown Rabbit:

    He was paid off by the vaccine manufacturers to have pre conceived outcomes on his study’s.

    Prove it. Provide actual verifiable documentation, because the link I posted clearly notes he stole money from the CDC.

    Like

  37. Gray Falcon
    December 8, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    By the way I’m the real Gray Falcon. I have not once posted on this thread. And I have one question for the imitators: Why would you need to stoop to such crude mockery to prove your points?

    Like

  38. We've found a witness
    December 8, 2012 at 6:51 pm

    Brown Rabbit :
    The difference is the CDC is basing their information on his body of work, He is a known criminal and would do anything for money. He was paid off by the vaccine manufacturers to have pre conceived outcomes on his study’s.

    If you witnessed this, why have you not come forward to report this to the authorities (or are you guessing?)? Are you taking money to keep this secret too? For that matter, why would someone being paid off by the pharm companies blow off his big payoff by stealing from the people he’s being paid to lie to? Seems pretty stupid for someone who is only after money. Next time you see Thorsen, you should ask him about that.

    Like

  39. December 8, 2012 at 8:02 pm

    Is it possible that Brown Rabbit and the fake Gray Falcon are actually he same person having an argument with themselves? I thought there was something fishy about the latest Gray Falcon’s posts, he doesn’t actually insult people.

    Like

  40. Gray Falcon
    December 8, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    I’m betting at least one of them is Joe. He parroted several of the statements I made, while demonstrating the same level of understanding and honesty that made him one of the most odious people I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with.

    Like

  41. December 9, 2012 at 2:27 am

    I have emailed Christine, so it should be rectified shortly. If it hasn’t already been.

    Like

  42. December 9, 2012 at 10:20 am

    @Lara / Gray – interestingly enough, I noticed that Gray’s user icon (on the left hand side of the comments) was different for this “fake” Gray – so yes, it is probably Joe talking to himself.

    Pretty low and despicable tactic there.

    Like

  43. December 9, 2012 at 10:21 am

    @Gray – you should also have a link in your user profile too – since that would be a dead-giveaway if someone tried to spoof you.

    Like

  44. Abbie
    December 9, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Hobbit,
    It’s great to have you on board, I agree with everything you’ve said! Mercury in vaccines proved as devastating as mercury in Calomel, syphilis medications, Steedman’s teething powder, and the mercuric chloride that was used as an antiseptic for a century, killing and disabling millions, curing none. It continues to be devastating in the flu vaccines in which it is used full-force, and may be devastating even in the “trace” amounts in which it is still present in many vaccines. But what the heck, all they have to do is deny it, and the show goes on, it can go on reaping tremendous profits and just ignore all the grieving parents in its wake. It now appears that aluminum has taken up the role of universal disabler, but cannot be removed from vaccines as easily as mercury was.
    You appear now to admit that Poul Thorsen was a swindler, and yet I remember when they announced on the national news in about 2003 that his “study” had conclusively proven that vaccines didn’t cause autism. I haven’t since heard any admission on the news that his study was a hoax, and his conclusions false. Thorsen neglected to mention that overnight the Danish government had reclassified autism, including all the outpatients in the count where formerly they had only included those diagnosed as in patients. Rather than do a real vax-unvax study, he just counted all the many who were added overnight to the autism roles, and said that that had proven that removing mercury from vaccines had made no difference, as there were even more diagnosed as autistic than before.

    So why don’t they do a vax/unvax study? It has been mandated twice by Congress, yet has not been done. The dishonest Dr. Boyle refused to answer Representative Maloney’s question when she asked her if the CDC were investigating the vaccines/autism link, even though she rhetorically asked it three times.

    I am not the same as Hobbit, though I love Tolkien’s books. Lawrence can probably do a stylistic analysis to sort out the different commenters here. The underlying reason is that there are hundreds of thousands of vaccine-damaged people just (especially) in the U.S., and many of us have figured out the reasons, and some of us are taking on the vaccine apologists. It’s not that there’s just one “crank” putting on a thousand hats.

    Like

  45. Chris
    December 9, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    Abbie:

    Mercury in vaccines proved as devastating as mercury in Calomel, syphilis medications, Steedman’s teething powder, and the mercuric chloride that was used as an antiseptic for a century, killing and disabling millions, curing none.

    Citation needed. Provide the title, journal and dates of the PubMed indexed papers that show that influenza vaccines have killed more than the actual disease. This means the data showing that any influenza vaccines have killed at least 34 children in 2011/2012, or 122 children in 2010/2011 or 282 children in 2009/2010 (just scroll down that paper until you hit the graph with the green bars).

    Abbie, again how does anything done by Thorsen invalidate the work by (again, the same list as above): Madsen, Hviid, Mrozek-Budzyn, Tozzi, Hornig, Uchiyama, Honda, D’Souza, Doja, Fombonne, Smeeth, DeStefano, Lingam, Makela Thompson, Taylor and and Schechter? Provide a Pubmed indexed citation of a critique of the two 2002 Danish studies by qualified researcher (hint: not Blaxill).

    I am sorry, but blanket declarations are not acceptable. You must provide actual evidence for your assertions.

    Abbie:

    So why don’t they do a vax/unvax study? It has been mandated twice by Congress, yet has not been done.

    Abbie, because there is no need to. But if you insist, please design a study that follows the rules set by the Belmont Report, get it approved by an IRB (Independent Review Board) and then right a grant to get it done. I suggest you ask fro funding from SafeMinds, Generation Rescue, Autism Trust and Autism Speaks. They have all funded research, and it is baffling that they keep asking for this magical “vax/unvax” study, yet have not done it yet.

    Like

  46. December 9, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    I believe that ‘Abbie’ is one more cia sockie and really should be ignored. She hasn’t yet provided anything to back up her noise through any of her previous incarnations, pretty safe to say she won’t do it now either, because the data to back up her claims just doesn’t exist.

    Like

  47. Lara Lohne
    December 9, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    @Lawrence, if it is indeed Joe, it proves that he is a liar in everything he has said. Not only because he pulls dishonest tactics such as this, but the fact that he claims to be so concerned about the autism population and yet he decided to pick on the one autistic (that I know of) who is a regular commenter on this blog. That, right there, shows how down right unconcerned he really is. He lacks the very thing that many people in his circle claim their autistic children lack; empathy/compassion and the ability to see things from someone else’s perspective. Those are the actions of a very bitter and pathetically sad individual.

    Like

  48. December 9, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    @Lara – Abbie is most likely a sock-puppet (cia again, I’m sure).

    Her common misconceptions about mercury & vaccines are either addressed in the link:

    http://antiantivax.flurf.net – also linked in my name.

    Like

  49. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    Why I am flattered that you all think I am posting here again, please be rest assured that I am not. As much as I despise Gray and buddies, I am not the culprit. Try looking elsewhere for a scapegoat; I am sure you have upset many people who have commented here.

    Like

  50. December 9, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    @Joe – I will leave it in the very capable hands of the blog owners here – they will be able to isolate the IP addresses and take care of it.

    Like

  51. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    I’m sure they will Lawrence.

    Like

  52. December 9, 2012 at 4:35 pm
  53. Gray Falcon
    December 9, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    Joe, why do you say you despise me?

    Like

  54. December 9, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    @Joe, that isn’t a study, it’s a survey of home schooled children and the person performing the study appears to keep changing the amount that he needs to complete/conduct the survey. The person also has no experience or education in epidemiology, even though they claim that they do. This is another bogus attempt by anti-vaccine blogs/websites/activist groups trying to prove something that has already been proved negative to the best that science is able, using real data and not self selection biased surveys.

    Like

  55. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 9:21 pm
  56. December 9, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    @Joe – that’s the same study, with the same self-selected flaws…..not real science & won’t get you valid results (plus, it’s limited to Mississippi only).

    Like

  57. Gray Falcon
    December 9, 2012 at 9:29 pm

    Joe :
    Gray, maybe for the same reason you say you had the “odious displeasure” of meeting me.

    So you hate me because you lied about me repeatedly? And yes, you did lie, if you were mistaken, then you would have taken the steps to correct yourself when the truth was presented to you.

    Like

  58. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    Whatever Lawrence, the study still has two years to go, and it is being done by epidemiologists…so it must not be the same study Lara was referring too.

    Like

  59. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    Gray, I never lied about you. I don’t like you because of the way you have treated me.

    Like

  60. Gray Falcon
    December 9, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    Joe :
    Gray, I never lied about you. I don’t like you because of the way you have treated me.

    I merely asked whether a specific diet had the effect you said it did, or if your son simply progressed on his own. Your response was to accuse me of claiming that diet had no effect on the body. How is that not a lie?

    Like

  61. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    Gray….just leave it be OK.

    Like

  62. Gray Falcon
    December 9, 2012 at 10:00 pm

    Joe :
    Gray….just leave it be OK.

    If someone committed a crime against you, made no attempt to fix things, made no attempt to apologize, and simply said “just leave it be OK”, how would you feel? And yes, it was a crime, namely libel.

    Like

  63. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    First of all I did apologize once and said it was a misunderstanding and you went on and on and on about. Let it be Gray,

    Like

  64. December 9, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    @Joe – no, Lara is right, it is the same study. Read the links – you are incorrect in this case.

    Like

  65. Gray Falcon
    December 9, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    The closest thing I could find to an apology from you was here:

    Sorry you have hard feelings about all of this Gray. Need a hug?

    I made it very clear what you lied about, and you simply pretended it never happened. Do you really think that an honest person behaves that way?

    Like

  66. lilady
    December 9, 2012 at 10:40 pm

    Please just ignore the trolls, their sockies and their postings under other’s nyms.

    I notified Christine about their infestation…and Christine will handle them.

    Like

  67. Gray Falcon
    December 9, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    lilady :
    Please just ignore the trolls, their sockies and their postings under other’s nyms.
    I notified Christine about their infestation…and Christine will handle them.

    You’re right. Anybody who would write “Sorry you have hard feelings about all of this Gray. Need a hug?” is too far gone from basic decency to communicate with. Ashamed as I am to admit this, I have actually lost sleep over Joe’s false accusations.

    Like

  68. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Lawrence….what is it that I am incorrect about? Two years to go or that the researchers have degrees in epidemiology?

    “The study has been underway for 1 year. The researchers have 2 years to go”
    “The lead investigator is a visiting professor in the School of Health Sciences at Jackson State University, has MPH and DrPH degrees in epidemiology from Tulane School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine and an MA in sociology from the University of Essex (UK). “

    Gray….now you are lying. That wasn’t my apology…go back and find my sincere apology.

    Like

  69. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    lilady….you guys brought me into this conversation and now Lawrence and Gray are having a discussion with me, but I am the troll. This is the exact reason I stop posting here in the first place.

    Like

  70. Gray Falcon
    December 9, 2012 at 10:59 pm

    Joe :
    Gray….now you are lying. That wasn’t my apology…go back and find my sincere apology.

    I searched the entire post. Every instance of Joe using the word “sorry” was in a similarly passive-aggressive manner. If he wants to show me he sincerely apologized, he’ll have to find it himself. He also said: “If you don’t understand that what you eat affects everything in your body then so be it,” which again demonstrates his dishonesty. I never said anything of the sort, and explained that repeatedly.

    Like

  71. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 11:17 pm

    Gray….just be cause you CAN’T find my sincere apology doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    You really know how to bring the worst out of somebody Gray. I could nit-pick with things you have said about me too. Let it go and move on and quit lying about me.

    Like

  72. Gray Falcon
    December 9, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    Joe :
    Gray….just be cause you CAN’T find my sincere apology doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    I read the whole thread and found nothing. Rather than lift a finger to help me, Joe just makes for accusations. Is this how an honest person responds?

    You really know how to bring the worst out of somebody Gray. I could nit-pick with things you have said about me too. Let it go and move on and quit lying about me.

    Again, all accusations, no evidence. When I accused Joe of lying, I presented very real evidence of his sins. He has nothing but a fondness for blaming others for his cruelty.

    Like

  73. Joe
    December 9, 2012 at 11:36 pm

    First of all, I don’t know what thread it was from, 2nd, I have no idea how to search, and 3rd, I don’t have time for this game.

    I didn’t make accusations…..I told you that you bring the worst out of me. That is not an accusation, that is a fact. Quit being so drama about everything…”crimes”, “sins”….this is exactly what I am talking about. I sincerely apologized to you and you went on and on with those kinds of comments. That’s when I started with my sarcasm, because I literally got sick of listening to it all.

    Like

  74. Gray Falcon
    December 9, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    We have a search box. If I can use it, so can you. And I am not being “so drama”, not when I have evidence to back myself up. Now, where have I lied about you? Be specific, and provide evidence. That’s what I do.

    Like

  75. Quokka
    December 9, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    I am not sure how the study at Jackson State is actually going to contribute much.

    It requires mothers of children who wish to take part to access a website – self selection bias is going to be difficult if not impossible to overcome.

    I will have to investigate the profile of families that home school in the USA but there would be some significant confounding factors within that population itself I would have thought – based purely on having worked for 20 odd years in Australia with families that have chosen to home school children/especially children with disability.

    Like

  76. Joe
    December 10, 2012 at 12:48 am

    Quokka, I agree, let’s wait until the study is done before coming to any conclusions.

    Gray, you are lying when you say I didn’t sincerely apologize to you. That is a lie.

    Like

  77. Gray Falcon
    December 10, 2012 at 12:51 am

    Joe, where is your evidence? We have a search box, why can’t you use it? No excuses, Joe. No. Excuses.

    Like

  78. Joe
    December 10, 2012 at 1:36 am

    Gray…..again, just because you can’t find it, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. So when you say I didn’t, it is a lie. It’s a crime, a sin, Gray. Lying is a sin.

    Why don’t you tell me what thread it is on and when I have some time to waste I will take a look.

    Like

  79. December 10, 2012 at 2:52 am

    I think that’s enough of this going back and forth guys.

    Gray, you have contributed great discussion to this blog. Continuing though to argue with Joe can potentially undermine your point of view. I realize he has gotten under your skin, and it can be really hard to let go of that, but really, the only way to stop a bully is to ignore them, not engage.

    Joe, you are welcome to participate in the discussion as you wish, but you need to stay on topic and keep it civil. You are badgering Gray Falcon, and to me, it looks as though you are deliberately trying to get a rise out of him, that is tactics of a bully. Someone else could call it harassment. Please just stop now because it has nothing to do with the topic of this post.

    Arguing about whether or not someone apologized is a bit silly to begin with. Perspective is different from both of you. Others may also see it one way or the other, but really there is no point in this debate proving someone wrong or right, because it does not get us anywhere.

    The topic of this post is saving children’s lives by getting them their flu vaccine. Can we please get back to that topic?

    Like

  80. Chris
    December 10, 2012 at 3:10 am

    Joe, you are hilarious. So at some point you mentioned you did not like the vax/unvax study that was done in Germany. Woo hoo (your baseless objections were ignored). But then some guy called “Mick” claimed the same thing on the same thread. It was then obvious that “Joe” created a sock puppet called “Mick.”

    There is no doubt that “Joe” is not honest, and is willing and able to employ sock puppets. There is no reason to deal with “Joe” and his sock puppets. This is just one of the many dishonest methods used by those who do not have facts and evidence to support their statements work.

    It is best to ignore “Joe” and his many sock puppets, which I believe may include “Hobbit”, “Abbie” and the Fake Falcons. Take note that none have answered with any real evidence when challenged.

    Like

  81. December 10, 2012 at 7:09 am

    @Chris – since Joe won’t actually get into the details of the so-called “study” that he’s touting, it does have the exactly same flaws as the German study – which is major self-selection bias (and being an internet survey & all doesn’t help), plus does nothing to deal with the confounding factors – such as reasons behind home-schooling, family history, etc, which means that the sampling is not random nor is there a control group either.

    Bad science, which means the results will be bad as well – but don’t be surprised, if the results aren’t what the anti-vaccine crowd wants, that they will turn on these researchers too.

    Like

  82. December 10, 2012 at 7:56 am

    @Chris – I also forgot to mention that Mississippi has a very small population of “home-schoolers” which means the “study” itself is going to be limited to a very small number of subjects….yet another problem & one that tends to creep into any anti-vaccination research cohort.

    Like

  83. December 10, 2012 at 7:58 am

    @Chris – yet another misconception, that no long-term child health studies have been undertaken, which is patently false. I found out, as a teen, that my parents had signed up for a large-scale study of health outcomes for newborns – I, along with several thousands of other children, were followed till our entry into school getting reports of our health, etc.

    The work has already been done & is being done in a variety of places – the anti-vaccine groups refuse to look at the real science, because it doesn’t say what they want it to say.

    Like

  84. Quokka
    December 10, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Joe – I don’t need to wait for conclusions because if the study design renders the data uninterpretable it doesn’t matter what the conclusions are.

    In Australia we say – crap meat makes crap sausages.

    I don’t know if that’s how it would be stated elsewhere.

    Like

  85. Gray Falcon
    December 10, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Sorry about leading it off topic. Back on topic, here’s another reason one should get the flu vaccine. There are several people out there, including most babies and cancer patients, who cannot receive the vaccine. The best way to protect them from the flu is to be vaccinated and not get it to spread to them in the first place.

    Like

  86. Chris
    December 10, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Lawrence:

    @Chris – since Joe won’t actually get into the details of the so-called “study” that he’s touting, it does have the exactly same flaws as the German study – which is major self-selection bias (and being an internet survey & all doesn’t help),

    Except that particular German study was not self-selected (do not mix it up with the internet survey done by the German homeopath):

    In total, 17 641 children and adolescents (8656 girls, 8985 boys) and their parents participated in the study (response rate 66.6%), who were randomly selected in 167 German locations (8, 9). The study was approved
    by the Charité-Universitätsmedizin Berlin ethics committee.

    It was also not an internet survey, but an interview with set questions. It was probably much like the questionnaires your parents answered during that long term study you were in. My youngest son was in one that tracked the mental health of kids starting in sixth grade until they started college. We were both given long interviews once or twice a year from the time he was twelve until about nineteen years old.

    And with that German study the medical records of the children were consulted, from the paper:

    A standardized, computer-assisted personal interview (CAPI) of the accompanying parent by a doctor yielded data on medical diagnoses of atopic disorders (allergic rhinoconjunctivitis, atopic eczema, bronchial asthma) and several other diseases. The questions were: “Has a doctor at any time diagnosed your child with disease X?” Subjects for whom at least one atopic disorder ever was reported were assigned the characteristic “atopic disorder.” The questions about diseases were followed by data collection on the basis of medical records in the vaccination card, about data concerning the administered vaccinations and the timing of the vaccination.

    By the way, back on topic: the CDC table of available influenza vaccines shows nine rows of different vaccines, and at least five have versions that do not have thimerosal. Now we are still waiting for Hobbit, Abbie, and others to give us the title, journal and dates of the PubMed indexed papers that show any of those vaccines are more dangerous than influenza (which killed over thirty children last year, and even at the beginning of flu season around five this year).

    Like

  87. Rational Antivax
    December 10, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Gray Falcon,

    Back on topic, here’s another reason one should get the flu vaccine. There are several people out there, including most babies and cancer patients, who cannot receive the vaccine

    Let’s cut to the chase. You’ll kill them if you did.

    The best way to protect them from the flu is to be vaccinated and not get it to spread to them in the first place.

    But you are an infection promoter. You deliberately make people sick.

    Like

  88. December 10, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    @Thingy – you’re drunk, go home!

    Like

  89. Rational Antivax
    December 10, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Now we are still waiting for Hobbit, Abbie, and others to give us the title, journal and dates of the PubMed indexed papers that show any of those vaccines are more dangerous than influenza (which killed over thirty children last year, and even at the beginning of flu season around five this year).

    Oh that’s easy. GBS.

    To monitor influenza A (H1N1) 2009 monovalent vaccine safety, several federal surveillance systems, including CDC’s Emerging Infections Program (EIP), are being used. In October 2009, EIP began active surveillance to assess the risk for GBS after 2009 H1N1 vaccination. Preliminary results from an analysis in EIP comparing GBS patients hospitalized through March 31, 2010, who did and did not receive 2009 H1N1 vaccination showed an estimated age-adjusted rate ratio of 1.77 (GBS incidence of 1.92 per 100,000 person-years among vaccinated persons and 1.21 per 100,000 person-years among unvaccinated persons).

    24.Preliminary results: surveillance for Guillain-Barré syndrome after receipt of influenza A (H1N1) 2009 monovalent vaccine—United States, 2009–2010. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 2010;59(21):657–661.

    Like

  90. Gray Falcon
    December 10, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Can’t Guillain–Barré syndrome also be caused by the flu? At a much higher rate than the vaccine? Also, that study was for a single vaccine, it might not apply to others.

    Like

  91. December 10, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    @Gray – stop thinking all logically, this is insane troll we’re talking about here….

    Like

  92. Gray Falcon
    December 10, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    @Lawrence. Good point. It’s pretty likely he’s drunk, as well.

    Like

  93. Rational Antivax
    December 10, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    In the meantime, while Chris goes into latency, Lawrence clearly advises vaccinators to “stop thinking all logically”. smh

    Like

  94. Joe
    December 10, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Chris,
    Here’s what I said about the German study.
    “The German study is not a great study..
    -The control group is much, much larger than the test group, not good for any scientific study.
    – The study is based on the German vaccine schedule, not like here in the US…we receive many more vaccines.
    -Using vaccine “records” for studies is not very reliable, for there are sure to be errors. Also, what vaccine records are they using? Hospital records or those found in the pediatrician’s office? Could there be cross-overs or misinformation?
    -They don’t break it down enough. I’d like to know if a vaccinated kid didn’t get the measles but he had asthma vs. an unvaccinated kid got the measles but didn’t have asthma.”

    These are all valid points, Chris. I am waiting for the new study to actually be completed before determining what I think about it. If it has the same holes in it that the German study does, then so be it. I wasn’t “touting” this study as Law proclaims, I only mentioned that it existed when Abbie asked why there weren’t any.

    Lara,
    You said this….” You are badgering Gray Falcon, and to me, it looks as though you are deliberately trying to get a rise out of him, that is tactics of a bully. Someone else could call it harassment.”

    I have asked Gray many times in the previous conversations and this one, to let it go, to agree to disagree, etc., but he won’t ever do it. So please tell me how I am the bully and harassing him, when I am the one trying to get out of these types of conversations? Gray is the one that keeps coming back for more when I politely ask to stop. So please don’t accuse me of badgering him when it is the other way around.

    Here’s one comment Gray made to me…
    “Joe, if someone killed your son, would it matter? He’s far less than one in sixty million people in the UK.”
    Here is another…
    “someone like you is raising a child, and that is the most dangerous thing on heaven and earth.”

    Gray,
    Here are some of my sincere comments I made to you so that we could move on, but you still insist I lied.

    “Gray…to be clear….I agree that you think diet does have an effect on the body.”

    “Gray….don’t you have anything better to do with your time then to pick at this?
    It is not easy communicating via text vs. verbal conversation. You think I twist everything you say; when in reality it is a fluid conversation to hopefully have an understanding of other views at the end of the conversation.
    I was cordial and stated we should go our own ways and agree to disagree (twice), and yet you keep coming back.
    Then…so you wouldn’t have hard feelings, I told you very clearly, I now understand that you think “diet does have an effect on the body.” So we could move on….and still, you keep coming back.
    This is so petty and meaningless and a big waste of time. Have a nice evening Gray, I plan on enjoying mine.”

    I thought it sounded really nice Gray….especially the part about having a nice evening, but if this doesn’t work for you, then let me know what you’d like me to do to make it up to you.

    Like

  95. Gray Falcon
    December 10, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    Joe, an apology consists of “I’m sorry I did [action].” It does not consist of “I never did [action].” That’s why I didn’t think of it as an apology.

    Like

  96. Keric
    December 10, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Gray,
    It was a misunderstanding, I’m not sure I can make it any more clear for you. I think the above states it all. If you don’t believe it, so be it.

    Like

  97. December 10, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    @Keric – oh, so you are “Joe” too? Why the sock puppets?

    Like

  98. Gray Falcon
    December 10, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    I have nothing more to say to Joe (I had to explain my position repeatedly before he “apologized”), but I will clarify one statement of mine that he quoted, as it was part of a discussion about the flu vaccine, and therefore, almost on topic. In an earlier thread, Joe tried to convince us that only 1.5% of the population was assisted by the flu vaccine. I noted that 1.5% of a ten million was 15,000, and that was far greater than the risks posed by the vaccine. When he declared that 1.5% was too small to be worth the effort, I pointed out: “Joe, if someone killed your son, would it matter? He’s far less than one in sixty million people in the UK.” I apologize for that rather graphic image, but I needed to remind him that these are not statistics, they are people.

    Like

  99. Gray Falcon
    December 10, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Ugh, same math error again. Actually 1.5% of ten million in 150,000. If they all got the flu, there would be far more permanent side effects in that population that if they had gotten the vaccine.

    Like

  100. Gray Falcon
    December 10, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    Sorry about the last two posts. After seeing Joe/Keric on the other post blunder the concept of weighed risks, I probably shouldn’t have needed to say anything. Again, sorry for acting like an idiot.

    Like

  101. December 10, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    @Gray – no worries. No reason in the world to engage with Joe or his sockpuppets.

    Pretty pathetic, actually, which is a shame.

    Like

  102. Chris
    December 10, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    Joe/Keric/Mick:

    -The control group is much, much larger than the test group, not good for any scientific study.
    – The study is based on the German vaccine schedule, not like here in the US…we receive many more vaccines.

    Neither of those points disqualify that study, especially in comparison with the proposed self-selected survey of homeschooling families.

    You are proving that you are not qualified to evaluate a scientific study, and by the continuing use of sock puppets you reveal that you are dishonest.

    Like

  103. December 10, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    @Chris – sorry, my original comments on the “German” study were reflective of the homeopath’s travesty….

    Like

  104. Chris
    December 10, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    I thought so! Which is why I put in a link.

    What is also silly about Joe/Keric/Mick’s objection was the use of medical records. In countries with a national health service like Germany, the records would be much more complete and accurate than American homeschoolers who may be using several different health care providers, I know my son has separate records at the private medical care practice (the Polyclinic, which shares a system with a private hospital system), and the university medical system (where he gets cardiac rehab). Plus there are the records at the Mayo Clinic where he had surgery (I had to get records to them from the different medical groups!).

    Joe/Keric/Mick is clearly clueless.

    Like

  105. Do-rise
    February 2, 2014 at 7:44 pm

    Which flu bug did this child die from? Was is the guarantee from the influenza vaccine received that death could/would have been diverted? What was the medical history of this child? What preventive interventions were provided by the family? Vaccine only covers what prevalent virus thought to contribute to widespread outbreak. Read the insert, many risks involved in taking influenza vaccine with no promise of positive immune response to even that particular virus targeted as per package insert. Many factors like predisposed medical history and risks, internal factors such as low activity, diet(high sugar/carb intake, high fat, etc), lifestyle, exposure to harmful chemicals causing allergic responses, etc) and external factors to illness like dwelling location, pollution, smoking (2nd hand included), cooking of foods that emit harmful chemicals that compromise immune systems (of children and elderly included), etc., emotional stress, crisis/trauma situations. All of the before mentioned are issues that contribute to the health of an immune system. Getting the influenza vaccine is not the quick fix so stop thinking this is the way.

    Like

  106. Lawrence
    February 2, 2014 at 8:02 pm

    So, blame the victim?

    You are horrid.

    Like

  107. Chris
    February 2, 2014 at 8:28 pm

    Lack of paragraphs, unsupported claims, questioning the health of the child, and blaming the victim. It looks like “Parker style typing.”

    Like

  108. lilady
    February 3, 2014 at 3:49 am

    Definitely “Parker style typing”…pretty awful blaming the victim.

    Like

  1. February 7, 2013 at 10:38 pm

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: