Home > Get Involved > Summer Sightings: See it, Share it, Win it!

Summer Sightings: See it, Share it, Win it!

Summer is for traveling, and if you’ve been hitting the road lately, than perhaps you’ve seen these brilliant outdoor advertising images from Every Child By Two (ECBT).   If not, then be on the lookout, because for each summer sighting you can be entered to win a $25 Amazon gift card.

Every Child By Two (ECBT) has teamed up with the Outdoor Advertising Association of America (OAAA) to put a clever spin on their Vaccinate Your Baby campaign.  Recently, billboards and bus shelter ads that communicate the importance of timely immunizations and the concept of “cocooning” infants through adult vaccination, are being spotted all across the United States.

And this summer we’re asking you to help us share the message!

If you see any of these billboard or bus shelter posters, email us at shotofprevention@gmail.com to be entered in our Summer Sightings Sweepstakes.

  • A simple mention of the location of the ad will earn you 1 entry into the contest.  (Something as simple as the town, highway, milemarker or bus stop location will do.)
  • A picture of the ad will earn you 3 entries into the contest. (Of course, we ask that you exercise caution and do not attempt to operate a camera while driving!)
  • A picture of you with the ad will earn you 5 entries into the contest. (Again, please be careful and do not risk life or limb for our Summer Sightings contest!)

Each sighting will earn you a mention on our Vaccinate Your Baby Facebook page and a chance to win a $25 Amazon gift card.  The contest will continue through Labor Day and the winner will be announced by September 6th. 

So plan those road trips now and keep your eyes out for these ads all summer long.

This extension of Every Child By Two’s Vaccinate Your Baby campaign – championed by mother, actor, and volunteer spokesperson Amanda Peet – continues to addresses misinformation about the safety of vaccines and directs the public to credible research and science-based information about immunizations.  In expressing her commitment to the cause, Peet explains,

“I am determined to do whatever I can to help parents like me get the facts straight on the issue of immunizations.  Thank you to OAAA for making Every Child By Two a public service partner. This partnership will allow ECBT to get its important immunization messages out to many more parents.”

Nancy Fletcher, OAAA president and CEO, also commented on the partnership by saying,

“The outdoor advertising industry is committed to providing public service advertising to social causes, especially when it comes to the health and safety of children. By helping to promote Every Child By Two’s Vaccinate Your Baby campaign, the industry will be helping America’s children to stay happy and healthy.”

We know the ads are out there, now you can help let everyone know exactly where they are!  

  1. Alicia
    July 7, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    How sad. You can post all this fear mongering propaganda EVERYWHERE but people who question vaccines can’t get any space for advertising the other side of the vaccine debate. I think the theory of vaccines is honorable but the execution is poor. We need more unbiased, non-pharma funded research done in the US to support the value of vaccines. We need the research done in Japan, Europe, etc. to be reviewed and published in the US. If anyone has ANY research done about these vaccines which is independent and not funded by a pharmaceutical company I would appreciate the links. Until then, my kids will remain unvaccinated. We have already had whooping cough, measles and Rotavirus. All resolved very quickly and with no complication. Unfortunately, my hubsand and I who were fully vaxed multiple times in the military suffer from Crohn’s Disease (which did not occur until AFTER the MMR vax), Asthma, ADHD (did not occur until after numerous vax and subsequent fever requiring hospitalization in 2004), extreme migraines requiring hospitalization, arthritis, extreme fatigue, horrible increased cramps and bleeding during menstruation and loss of vision from 20/20 to nearly legally blind in less than six months following mass vaccination in basic training.

    Like

  2. Chris
    July 8, 2012 at 12:15 am

    Alicia:

    You can post all this fear mongering propaganda EVERYWHERE but people who question vaccines can’t get any space for advertising the other side of the vaccine debate.

    Excuse me? Just go and pay for it, no one is stopping you. It is how Generation Rescue uses its money.

    If anyone has ANY research done about these vaccines which is independent and not funded by a pharmaceutical company I would appreciate the links.

    Actually, there have been several done, and in many countries. The links are readily available, and I have posted many of them several times. Perhaps you should just get familiar with the PubMed index. Or better yet, if you do not like any of the studies then design the study, make sure it conforms to the Belmont Report, get it approved by an Independent Review Board, and write a grant to get it funded. I suggest you submit the grant to Generation Rescue, SafeMinds, Autism Trust and others.

    Here are some papers that may interest you, and there are several thousands more on PubMed:

    Absence of Detectable Measles Virus Genome Sequence in Inflammatory Bowel Disease Tissues and Peripheral Blood Lymphocytes.
    J Med Virol 1998; 55(3):243-9

    No Evidence for Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccine-Associated Inflammatory Bowel Disease or Autism in a 14-year Prospective Study.
    Lancet 1998; 351:1327-8

    Exposure to Measles in Utero and Crohn’s Disease: Danish Register Study.
    BMJ 1998; 316(7126):196-7

    Like

  3. Bartego
    July 8, 2012 at 1:39 am

    Funny WHO statistics on Rubella in Poland.
    They started vac-program in 2004, the vac-ration is 49 in 2004, 91 in 2005, 98 in later years.
    http://apps.who.int/immunization_monitoring/en/globalsummary/timeseries/tscoveragebycountry.cfm?C=POL
    the number of reported cases looks looks interesting. The numbers were already decreasing before vac-program was started. And there was a significant deacrease in number of cases in 2006-2007 when the vac-ration was 98%
    http://apps.who.int/immunization_monitoring/en/globalsummary/timeseries/tscoveragebycountry.cfm?C=POL

    I keep f…ing the vaccines – the perfect tool of turning healthy people – specially babies – into long-term (life!) pharmaceutical business customers. I will not let anybody make medical experimets with my kids.

    I know – money talks.
    And the money buy the result of ‘reaseaches’ which are in fact a part of Big Pharma’s marketing mix.
    There is no difference where they were done – USA, Europe, Japan, China. The people preparing those are paid from the same corrupted octopus system, where business, doctors, goverment institutions are involved in. .

    Like

  4. lilady
    July 8, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Bartego: Whatever are you talking about? You seem to be comparing apples and oranges here. Where are the prevalence rates for the diseases both before and after vaccines were developed and after there was wide-spread coverage (exceeding 95 %) for each childhood vaccine?

    I don’t see any charts from you that back up your silly inane rants.

    Like

  5. Chris
    July 8, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Bartego:

    I keep f…ing the vaccines – the perfect tool of turning healthy people – specially babies – into long-term (life!) pharmaceutical business customers.

    Citation needed.

    Like

  6. Andrew
    July 8, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    How sad. You can post all this fear mongering propaganda EVERYWHERE but people who question vaccines can’t get any space for advertising the other side of the vaccine debate.

    Alicia:

    You’ve successfully posted your antivax fearmongering on pro-children website. Congratulations. Now try to post pro-vaccine facts on one of the many antivaccine websites, and see how quickly they delete any facts that disagree with their ideology (several antivax websites boast of the fact that they “protect” their readers from any dissenting views). Please report back with the results of your experiment. Thanks.

    Like

  7. MegS
    July 9, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    Love the new campaign! So creative! I think they would make great posters in my clinic!

    Like

  8. Ashley
    July 9, 2012 at 10:40 pm

    You do realize you CAN’T BRING BACK TETANUS FROM THE PLAYGROUND, right?

    Like

  9. Kerri
    July 9, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    As a mother whose baby passed away very shortly after receiving her 4 month vaccinations, and knowing that SIDS is listed as an adverse reaction for infatrix (dtap vaccine) I decided to devote hundreds of hours to researching the available information out there. I then decided to not risk my subsequent child’s life. She’s 3 now and has had only 2 ear infections, neither of which could have been prevented by vaccination. I applaud parents that choose to vaccinate and those that don’t. Only a parent can decide what’s right for their child. People need to understand though, that those of us that don’t vaccinate, don’t make that decision on a whim.

    Like

  10. Chris
    July 9, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    Ashley, why? Tetanus is a pathogen that is in the soil, and it has even been transmitted by bug bites. See Case 3 of Table 1 in Philosophic objection to vaccination as a risk for tetanus among children younger than 15 years.

    Kerri, I am sorry for your loss. Has your claim gone well?

    Like

  11. George
    July 9, 2012 at 11:13 pm

    I applaud parents that choose to vaccinate, it takes courage to lend your child to the government as a guinea pig. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwMBttvAu5k

    Like

  12. Chris
  13. Nathan
    July 10, 2012 at 1:04 am

    Kerri, I am sorry to hear of your loss. I do hope you will take another look at that package insert, it says that SIDS has been reported following administration of infanrix, as it is required to do, not that it is an “adverse reaction.” A report does not mean something was caused by the vaccine. There is a background rate to SIDS and it would be phenomenally surprising if SIDS *never* occurred following vaccination, as it would mean the vaccine prevents SIDS. However, the studies that have been done show a decrease in SIDS among the vaccinated. I’m sure you have been told this many times, and my saying it means nothing at this point, but you can be pretty confident that vaccines did not cause the death of your child.

    “She’s 3 now and has had only 2 ear infections, neither of which could have been prevented by vaccination.”

    How do you know? They cultured both infections? This is unlikely.

    “People need to understand though, that those of us that don’t vaccinate, don’t make that decision on a whim.”

    But not, unfortunately, on good science either.

    Like

  14. Kerri
    July 10, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Actually Nathan, I have a Dr. for my daughter that is very supportive of my choice. Frankly, you can’t guarantee me that they didn’t, and that it was mere coincidence. Since we’re unable to go back and not vaccinate and try over, we’ll never know.

    Yes both infections were cultured at my insistence, so as to make sure the antibiotic she was given WOULD work. As opposed to it being given, not working, and having to worry about a recurrence.

    I was a paramedic for 9 yrs, and am considered a non converter (meaning vaccines don’t even work on me). So I went through multiple injections for no reason, as the only thing I am immune to is Chicken pox which I had as a child. (SO I know for a fact that vaccines don’t work on all people as they are supposed to. So while no scientific study was done, I highly doubt they were all bad batches of vaccines.)

    The fact that there is an adverse reaction group that investigates claims and punitive damages are rewarded, means that there are adverse reactions to vaccinations. How many children have to suffer from vaccination and it’s OK? As far as I am concerned one child being injured is one too many.

    You should be very careful what you presume about people, because you never know who you are dealing with. I know many doctors, nurses, and EMT’s/Paramedics that won’t vaccinate their children.

    Like

  15. Chris
    July 10, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Kerri:

    How many children have to suffer from vaccination and it’s OK?

    Well, according to this there are less than 500 per year reports of non-autism vaccine injuries out of several million doses given. And over a more than twenty year span less than 150 were compensated for the DTaP vaccine, and under three thousand for all vaccines since 1989. Since the evidence bar is set very low to be compensated, I would say that is a very good safety record for vaccination.

    I hope your claim with NVICP went well.

    Now if you have some actual evidence that is more substantial than an anecdote, feeling or just the fact that there is a mechanism to compensate for vaccine injury, then please present it. Just post the title, journal and dates of the PubMed indexed papers that support your conclusions. Some examples:

    Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story

    Vaccine. 2012 Jan 5;30(2):247-53.
    Lack of association between childhood immunizations and encephalitis in California,
    1998-2008.

    Pediatrics Vol. 126 No. 2 August 1, 2010 (doi: 10.1542/peds.2009-1496)
    Lack of Association Between Acellular Pertussis Vaccine and Seizures in Early Childhood

    Pediatrics. 2010 Jun;125(6):1134-41.
    On-time vaccine receipt in the first year does not adversely affect neuropsychological outcomes.

    Pediatrics. 2009 Jun;123(6):1446-51.
    Parental refusal of pertussis vaccination is associated with an increased risk of pertussis infection in children.

    Pediatrics, February 2009, Vol. 123(2):475-82
    Neuropsychological Performance 10 years after Immunization in Infancy with Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines

    Am J Epidemiol. 2008 Dec 15;168(12):1389-96. Epub 2008 Oct 15.
    Geographic clustering of nonmedical exemptions to school immunization requirements and associations with geographic clustering of pertussis.

    Pediatrics. 2007 Nov;120(5):e1269-77.
    Is childhood vaccination associated with asthma? A meta-analysis of observational studies.

    Vaccine. 2007 Jun 21;25(26):4875-9. Epub 2007 Mar 16.
    Do immunisations reduce the risk for SIDS? A meta-analysis.

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2006 Sep;25(9):768-73.
    Encephalopathy after whole-cell pertussis or measles vaccination: lack of evidence for a causal association in a retrospective case-control study.

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2002 Jun;21(6):498-504.
    Childhood vaccinations and risk of asthma.

    JAMA. 2000 Dec 27;284(24):3145-50.
    Individual and community risks of measles and pertussis associated with personal exemptions to immunization.

    Like

  16. Lawrence
    July 10, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    @Kerri – then they are doing their children a disservice. Given what we actually know about the real side-effects of the diseases that we vaccinate for, it is a crime to have even one child suffer needlessly from diseases they should never have to get in the first place.

    Despite lower mortality rates before widespread vaccinations (meaning we got better at keeping kids alive after contracting the diseases), we were able to do nothing about the much higher percentage of life-altering side-effects, including blindness, sterility, deafness, and congenital birth defects.

    The rate of serious side-effects from vaccines is so low, that in many cases, we cannot even statistically confirm that said side-effects are even related to the vaccine (less than 1 in 10 million in some cases). Compare that to the serious rate of side-effects from measles, mumps & rubella, which can occur in as few as 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 children……

    If you actually looked at the Science, you would understand the difference.

    Like

  17. lilady
    July 10, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    I’m having trouble posting here. lilady

    Like

  18. ella
    July 10, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    Kerri,
    I also am sorry for your loss. My neighbor’s daughter reacted to the hep-B vaccine with encephalitis, and was later diagnosed with autism. Most of the SIDS deaths in the U.S. are caused by vaccines. Japan was in the 17th place in the world as to infant mortality until doctors there boycotted the DPT because from 1970 to 1974 there were 37 documented infant deaths following pertussis vaccinations. (Wow, what an idea, doctors going to bat to save the children they serve.) Babies stopped dying from SIDS, and their infant mortality rate went to lowest in the world, number 1! They delayed the pertussis vaccine to the age of 24 months, and SIDS disappeared! The more vaccines we add to the schedule, the higher our rate of infant mortality becomes. We’re something like number 42 now, when in 1950 we were right at the top (few deaths). We’re getting worse and worse, losing more and more babies to vaccine damage.

    Like

  19. Correction
    July 10, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    “Babies stopped dying from SIDS, and their infant mortality rate went to lowest in the world, number 1! They delayed the pertussis vaccine to the age of 24 months, and SIDS disappeared!”

    That’s a common misunderstanding, but of course it’s wrong. Babies continued to die from SIDS, but antivaxxers didn’t care about those babies, since they hadn’t had vaccines – and to antivaccine advocates, dead babies are only bad if they can be blamed on vaccines. Meanwhile, deaths from vaccine-preventable diseases went up too http://stason.org/TULARC/child-parent/vaccinations/3a-14-Did-SIDS-disappear-in-Japan-after-the-Japanese-changed.html

    Like

  20. Chris
    July 10, 2012 at 8:02 pm

    Ella:

    Japan was in the 17th place in the world as to infant mortality until doctors there boycotted the DPT because from 1970 to 1974 there were 37 documented infant deaths following pertussis vaccinations. ….snip…They delayed the pertussis vaccine to the age of 24 months, and SIDS disappeared!

    Unfortunately that is not true. SIDS did not ago away, and more babies died from pertussis. This is explained in the link I posted earlier today. It is also told in this paper:

    Expert Rev Vaccines. 2005 Apr;4(2):173-84.
    Acellular pertussis vaccines in Japan: past, present and future.

    Which says in its abstract:

    After two infants died within 24 h of the vaccination from 1974 to 1975, the Japanese government temporarily suspended vaccinations. Subsequently, the public and the government witnessed the re-emergence of whooping cough, with 41 deaths in 1979. This series of unfortunate events revealed to the public that the vaccine had, in fact, been beneficial.

    Ella, I suggest you get better sources of information.

    Like

  21. Nathan
    July 10, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    Kerri,

    Frankly, you can’t guarantee me that they didn’t, and that it was mere coincidence.

    I can imagine how this would be cemented in your mind. I can present copious evidence that vaccinated children have the same or less incidence of SIDS, but this will not change the association you have in your mind between the vaccine and SIDS. However, I do hope you understand why we believe people should use the literature, not an out-of-context fragment of a package insert, in their decision making.

    Yes both infections were cultured at my insistence, so as to make sure the antibiotic she was given WOULD work. As opposed to it being given, not working, and having to worry about a recurrence.

    So, if you will indulge me. If these are middle ear infections (as opposed to “swimmer’s ear,” and infection of the skin of the ear canal), they are on the other side of the eardrum. Did you have them perforate your child’s ear drum twice to obtain these cultures, simply to avoid a second course of antibiotics? This does not seem to be very good medical practice for your child’s doctor. Or did they perforate themselves? Those would be some very aggressive ear infections. BTW, what organisms were cultured?

    SO I know for a fact that vaccines don’t work on all people as they are supposed to.

    No one claims that vaccines work on everyone. The work on the majority of people, but not everyone.

    The fact that there is an adverse reaction group that investigates claims and punitive damages are rewarded, means that there are adverse reactions to vaccinations.

    Similar to my previous remark, no one claims that there are no adverse reactions to vaccinations. But the fact is that they are beyond rare.

    How many children have to suffer from vaccination and it’s OK? As far as I am concerned one child being injured is one too many.

    I wish no one could ever be harmed by a vaccine, and that no one ever could be harmed by a vaccine preventable disease. But we cannot have it both ways at this point, and vaccines are far safer than the diseases. Serious events from them are vanishingly scarce. And with some diseases, like polio, we can eradicate them and make a world free from the disease OR the vaccine. Would that meat with your approval?

    You should be very careful what you presume about people, because you never know who you are dealing with. I know many doctors, nurses, and EMT’s/Paramedics that won’t vaccinate their children.

    Your job, and the jobs of the people you know, are irrelevant, Kerri, and I have presumed nothing about them. However, even doctors who don’t vaccinate are basing their decisions on poor science. That’s because the sceince that supports their position is objectively poor.

    Like

  22. Nathan
    July 10, 2012 at 10:14 pm

    ella,

    Previously you indicated that it was your goddaughter whose child allegedly developed encephalitis after vaccination and was later diagnosed with autism.

    https://shotofprevention.com/2012/06/21/universal-hepb-vaccination-provides-long-term-protection/#comment-10064

    Now I can appreciate that your may be the godmother of your neighbor’s child. What I am curious about is that two other people in these forums made similar claims with almost the exact same language. “liz allen,” whose goddaughter also had “encephalitis… and later diagnosed with autism.”

    https://shotofprevention.com/2012/06/05/no-link-between-vaccines-and-autism-but-false-belief-persists/#comment-9364

    And before that, “cia parker” who claimed her own child “got encephalitis from the hep-B vaccine at birth and was later diagnosed with autism.”

    https://shotofprevention.com/2012/05/10/moms-who-vax-are-speaking-out/#comment-8594

    So, I must ask: are you related to these people? More to the point, are you the same person as these people, changing your story and identity?

    Like

  23. lilady
    July 10, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    @ Nathan: I had trouble posting with a link before, regarding Kerri’s claim about culturing her child’s ear before her doctor prescribed antibiotics.

    So tell us Kerri, external otitis media? Or was your child’s tympanic membrane ruptured and oozing purulent fluid that was cultured? What was the bacterium that was cultured?

    Like

  24. lilady
    July 10, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    @ Ella: Who diagnosed encephalitis in your child? Which treatment did your child undergo for treatment of encephalitis?

    Like

  25. jtdubb13
    July 13, 2012 at 8:39 pm

    This is all ridiculous….the FACT is vaccine’s are not safe for everybody and it is not a small number as you are indicating. Vaccine’s weren’t safe for my daughter, and I know that as a fact. There is so much new information out from the last couple of years, please educate yourself. PLEASE

    Like

  26. Chris
    July 13, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    jtdubb13:

    the FACT is vaccine’s are not safe for everybody and it is not a small number as you are indicating.

    Please tell us the title, journal and dates of the PubMed indexed papers of that new information telling us which vaccines are more dangerous than the disease, and gives the details on their dangers. Thank you.

    Like

  27. July 14, 2012 at 12:13 am

    What is the point of taking the time to give you links to studies etc., when all you will do is send me some studies that support your view ….what’s the point of that? Then it’s a debate of study vs study. If you are truly interested in the topic you can find all of the latest information available. I have educated myself by reading everything I can on both sides and drawing my own conclusions. I have also traveled and attended conferences and listened to leading scientists and doctors from around the world. Many of them with no dog in the fight….just research that has lead them to vaccines and there safety. The best information I could pass on to you is the human factor. The many 100’s of people I know that have family members that have been injured by vaccinations. That is the real proof, what is happening right in front of my own eyes. Just open your eyes and be willing to see it.

    Like

  28. Chris
    July 14, 2012 at 12:52 am

    I did not ask for links, I asked for the papers. You made the claim there is “latest information”, therefore it is up to you to provide that information. If you want us to believe you, then you will link to the pertinent evidence.

    Also, if you go to conferences you will see poster presentations. Those have not been peer reviewed, but many do get published later. So please do not use those as evidence. Just post the papers that support your assertions that have gone through peer review and are published. Anecdotes are not sufficient. Thank you.

    Here are some examples of papers published in the last couple of years. Again if you have better studies, please share:

    Vaccine. 2012 Jun 13;30(28):4292-8. Epub 2012 Apr 20.
    The combined measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines and the total number of vaccines are not associated with development of autism spectrum disorder: The first case-control study in Asia.

    Vaccine. 2012 Jan 5;30(2):247-53.
    Lack of association between childhood immunizations and encephalitis in California,
    1998-2008.

    BMC Public Health. 2011 May 19;11:340.
    Congenital rubella syndrome and autism spectrum disorder prevented by rubella vaccination–United States, 2001-2010.

    Pediatrics Vol. 126 No. 2 August 1, 2010 (doi: 10.1542/peds.2009-1496)
    Lack of Association Between Acellular Pertussis Vaccine and Seizures in Early Childhood

    Pediatrics. 2010 Jun;125(6):1134-41.
    On-time vaccine receipt in the first year does not adversely affect neuropsychological outcomes.

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2010 May;29(5):397-400.
    Lack of association between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and autism in children: a case-control study.

    Then there were these other papers that have appeared in the last two years:

    Vaccine. 2012 May 28;30(25):3778-89. Epub 2011 Dec 13.
    Anti-vaccine activists, Web 2.0, and the postmodern paradigm–an overview of tactics and tropes used online by the anti-vaccination movement.

    J Health Polit Policy Law. 2012 Feb;37(1):69-97. Epub 2011 Oct 14.
    The legitimacy of vaccine critics: what is left after the autism hypothesis?

    Ann Pharmacother. 2011 Oct;45(10):1302-4. Epub 2011 Sep 13.
    The vaccine-autism connection: a public health crisis caused by unethical medical practices and fraudulent science.

    So, really, jtdubb13, you made claims that there was new research. So show us that research, but make sure it is from qualified persons.

    Like

  29. Chris
    July 14, 2012 at 1:38 am

    FYI, jtdubb13, check the security settings of your brand new blog.

    Like

  30. lilady
    July 14, 2012 at 2:44 am

    jtdubb13: Which vaccine(s) weren’t safe for your daughter? Which conferences have you attended and which researchers are you basing your opinions on?

    When you make such statements about the safety of vaccines, we expect you to provide some specifics…otherwise we might think you are just a drive-by poster.

    Like

  31. Thomas
    July 14, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    “What is the point of taking the time to give you links to studies etc., when all you will do is send me some studies that support your view ….what’s the point of that?”

    The point is to have a debate based on facts. If you had the facts, surely you’d provide them – and when you claim that the facts are all around, yet somehow you fail to provide them, that allows serious people to conclude that you are just making stuff up.

    “The many 100’s of people I know that have family members that have been injured by vaccinations. That is the real proof, what is happening right in front of my own eyes. Just open your eyes and be willing to see it.”

    There’s a guy at the street corner who says the same thing about alien abductions.

    Like

  32. lilady
    July 14, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    @ Thomas: Where are your studies…did I miss some on this thread….or did one of your sockies post some?

    I worked as a public health nurse and administered tens of thousands of vaccines; my colleagues at the health department where I worked, administered hundreds of thousands of vaccines. We all were in touch with every physician in my County’s large catchment area (1.2 million people)…and I don’t recall any serious reactions to any vaccine.

    I think my experience and the experiences of my colleagues, trumps your anecdotal reports of “The many 100’s of people I know that have family members that have been injured by vaccinations.”

    “That is the real proof, what is happening right in front of my own eyes. Just open your eyes and be willing to see it.”

    My eyes are open and you have my full attention…where is your “real proof”?

    Like

  33. Thomas
    July 14, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    Lilady: I don’t need to post studies that vaccines are safe; Chris has already done so. I think you’ve misinterpreted my post – or were you intending to reply to jtdubb13? He’s the one that refuses to provide evidence other than “his own eyes” that vaccines are dangerous.

    Like

  34. Thomas
    July 14, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    Lilady: Please read my post again, and note that I am quoting someone else.

    Apologies if this gets doubleposted – I had a glitch a moment ago

    Like

  35. Thomas
    July 14, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    Lilady – Please note that I was quoting jtdubb13 to _disagree_ with his anecdotal reports, and his refusal to provide evidence.

    Like

  36. lilady
    July 14, 2012 at 8:42 pm

    Sorry Thomas, for tagging you with jtdubb13’s remarks. 🙂

    Like

  37. Thomas
    July 14, 2012 at 8:55 pm

    Lilady – no problem.

    Like

  38. jtdubb13
    July 16, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    Chris, thanks for being so polite. I cannot say the same for others.

    I did not come on here to debate vaccine safety….what is the point of spending a lot of time and energy with papers, studies, etc. with people who are convinced that vaccines are safe? My goal was to share my opinion and my experience with others who have not yet made a decision about vaccinations. To let anybody who is willing to listen, to think twice about vaccines and do their own research and make their own decisions. My personal experience is that a vaccine (H1N1) injured my daughter and nobody can deny that. It is a fact.

    Here’s one of my favorite quotes from a very brilliant mind, “To raise new questions, new possibilities, to regard old problems from a new angle, requires creative imagination and marks real advance in science.”

    Best to you Chris.

    Like

  39. Lawrence
    July 16, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    @jt – you use the word “fact” and I don’t think it means what you think it means.

    On the side of vaccines, we have decades of research, historical validation through massive drops in incidence rates, elimination of smallpox, plus mountains of scientific data that show that by and far, vaccines are safe and reliable means to prevent the spread of dangerous and deadly diseases.

    On the anti-vaccination side, they have opinions, personal anecdotes, and fear – that is about it.

    Of course, we don’t deny that there are rare side-effects to vaccines, in a very small number of cases those side-effect can be severe, but in the same vein, happen to be so rare as to raise the question whether or not the particular side-effect was the result of a vaccination (like 1 in 10 million rare).

    The known side-effects of the diseases we vaccinate against occur as often in 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000, such as blindness, complications from pneumonia, deafness, congenital birth defects, blindness, sterility, and death. These occur with much higher, a magnitude or more higher than anything that has ever been seen with vaccines.

    Without evidence, you cannot know – and you deny evidence, so you are willfully stupid.

    Like

  40. July 16, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    You’re a really nice guy aren’t you Lawrence? I am stupid because my daughter was injured by a vaccine? Thank you for making my point and not wanting to debate the topic with you.

    Like

  41. novalox
    July 16, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    @jtdubb13

    [citation needed]

    Like

  42. Lawrence
    July 16, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    @jt – go ahead & prove it. Or better yet, go ahead & give us the docket details for Vaccine Court case you filed. If you are so “sure” of it, there are legal means you can pursue for compensation.

    So, have you filed a claim? Because whenever we seem to ask that question of anti-vaccine people like you, all they have are excuses……

    Like

  43. July 16, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Lawrence…. is there something wrong with you? You better get checked for acting the way that you do; so hostile and angry. If you think I am giving up any personal information to the likes of you, you are very much mistaken. I could really care less if you believe me or not.

    Like

  44. Chris
    July 16, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    jtdubb13:

    I did not come on here to debate vaccine safety….what is the point of spending a lot of time and energy with papers, studies, etc. with people who are convinced that vaccines are safe?

    You did not start on a very polite foot by starting with: “This is all ridiculous….the FACT is vaccine’s are not safe for everybody and it is not a small number as you are indicating.”

    That was an aggressive way to start out. So don’t be surprised at the way it was received.

    Then you ended with: “There is so much new information out from the last couple of years, ”

    This implies that you have actual data and evidence to support the “FACT” you alluded to in your first sentence. You have been asked to provide those references, but have declined. This brings into doubt if those references actually exist.

    Finally you say: “My personal experience is that a vaccine (H1N1) injured my daughter and nobody can deny that. It is a fact.”

    We can neither deny nor accept that “fact” because we do not have the relevant data. It is an anecdote that is being told by parent, who is biased. Unfortunately parents may not be the most reliable source of information. Most of us are simply not trained to notice certain signs or behaviors.

    We experienced that when our daughter was a toddler and spent a weekend with arm pain, my hubby and I thought she would get over it. But on Monday I brought to the doctor who told me it was Nursemaid’s elbow, and he was able to quickly pop the elbow joint. He called it the pediatrician’s one “miracle cure.” How were we supposed to know that it was out of joint? No one pulled on her arm, it happened as she rolled backwards off the big arm of the couch while on her tummy. Or wait, did we accidentally pull her arm at some time during the day? That is so hard to remember.

    Personal anecdotes cannot be verified, and may have changed each time it is told.

    Just a reminder that when you claim something is a “FACT”, it is up to you to produce the actual citations to support that statement. If you don’t want to debate it, then either present the verifiable scientific data with the statement (see the citations I posted), or do not even tell us about that “fact.”

    Like

  45. novalox
    July 16, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    jtdubb13 :
    Lawrence…. is there something wrong with you? You better get checked for acting the way that you do; so hostile and angry. If you think I am giving up any personal information to the likes of you, you are very much mistaken. I could really care less if you believe me or not.

    @jtdubb13

    You do know that baseless ad hominem attacks reflects very poorly of you and implies that you are lying, right?

    Like

  46. July 16, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    Novalox, baseless attacks? Obviously Lawrence is angry and he was certainly hostile to me. I guess becuase I have that opinion about Lawrence it makes me a liar.

    Chris, sorry that you think I started off so aggressively….I thought we were past that point. Nice team of people you have here in this friendly community blog.

    Here is my daughter’s stroy, she received the H1N1 vaccine in the fall of 2009. That night she had a temperature of 103 and the high temperatures lasted for 2 weeks….after the fever broke she had a rash as bad you can’t possibly imagine. During that time, she started acting differently, mentally and physically, and then within about another month she lost all of her speech and communications skills and physically couldn’t walk down the stairs any more. Just to name a few….

    Like

  47. Chris
    July 16, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    jtdubb13, I’m sorry about your ordeal. And it would qualify for submission to VAERS and NVICP. Especially if you have extensive medical records from seeking medical attention after just a few (3) days of the high fever.

    But you don’t seem to understand, if you are going to claim something as a fact you will have to produce verifiable scientific data, like the list of citations I provided. That does not mean a personal story.

    My son suffered a severe seizure less than two weeks after getting his MMR vaccine, and was transported by ambulance to the ER. So was it caused by the vaccine, or the week of diarrhea from a very nasty gastrointestinal virus that caused dehydration?

    The neurologist said that there were gastrointestinal bugs that cause seizures. Should he have believed him? Is there any reason you should believe me? Is there any reason for us to not believe that there was some other virus or bacteria incubating in your child’s system the day of the vaccine?

    Like

  48. July 16, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    Chris, it is almost impossible to get paid any compensation.

    I do understand what you are saying about citations…so my personal story has no validity? I hope your son is OK now. There is a big difference in a two week reaction and one that happened immediately. If a vaccine was the trigger then it was a trigger, I am not saying that there isn’t a genetic predisposition or other factors involved.

    Like

  49. Chris
    July 16, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    Your personal story is your personal story. It has validity to you, but there it is not valid data for us to make a decision about. And I did not say “valid”, I said “verifiable.” There is difference in meaning.

    We still do not have enough data to access what happened to your daughter. We don’t have records from her doctor that include all of the lab tests that were done. So we cannot deny nor accept what you say occurred.

    Again, the verifiable scientific data would include the type used in the citations* I listed above. Among that data were those derived from the records of several HMOs (Health Maintenance Organizations), using the Vaccine Safety Datalink. Now if you belong to any of those HMOs, your daughter’s records would be part of the pool of data.

    * You can find them at http://www.pubmed.gov, and if they are not available free online you can go to a medical school library and the staff would be happy to show you how get get copies of the papers. I found that out when my son was referred to the university’s medical center for his heart condition. I also found out that the children’s hospital still had his records from his seizures over twenty years ago, as they were forwarded all with the rest of his records to the genetics doctor prior to him getting tested for the 18 known genetic sequences for his heart condition (he had none of them though).

    Like

  50. July 16, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    Chris….it’s been a pleasure. Cheers!

    Like

  51. Lawrence
    July 16, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    @jt – I may seem harsh, but we have seen more than a few anti-vaccination nut jobs come through here & make all sort of outlandish claims. The Vaccine Court is designed for cases like yours. If you have the evidence, you can file a case – there have been numerous claims paid for “legitimate” vaccine injuries – the standards of evidence are less than what you would find in civil court – so either you file a claim or I have every inclination to call you a liar.

    So, did you file a claim, and if not, why?

    Like

  52. July 16, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    Feel free to call me a liar Lawrrence…I would expect that from you. You don’t do this blog any justice, and if I were Chris, I would boot you.

    Like

  53. Lawrence
    July 16, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    @jt – it is actually a very simple & non-threatening question.

    You blame a vaccine for your daughter’s problems. There is a mechanism set up specifically to compensate those who have suffered legitimate vaccine reactions – a mechanism that actually favors the plaintiffs & has a lower burden of proof than Civil Court.

    Have you filed a claim? If not, why?

    Why is that such a hard question to answer?

    If you are asking for us to give you any legitimacy for your claims, this is where you start….if not, then you can join all of those who have come before trying to spread disinformation and fear….sorry, but that is just the way it is.

    Like

  54. novalox
    July 16, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    jtdubb13 :
    Feel free to call me a liar Lawrrence…I would expect that from you. You don’t do this blog any justice, and if I were Chris, I would boot you.

    @jtdubb13

    Here’s the thing, Lawrence hasn’t asked any questions that would be considered to be ad hominem or prying into privacy. The basic question he is asking is that if you have filed a claim with the vaccine courts. Just a simple yes or no answer.

    Your ad hominem attack on Lawrence was without any merit whatsoever, and implies that you have something to hide.

    Pardon me, but whenever people start dodging simple question, it gives off a rather poor impression and states that you are not looking for honest debate.

    Like

  55. Chris
    July 16, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    jtdubb13:

    I were Chris, I would boot you.

    My full first name is not Christine. I have no control over this blog.

    By the way, it costs nothing to report to VAERS. Instructions for filing on both VAERS and NVICP are included on all of the vaccine information sheets.

    Like

  56. July 16, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    Lawreence, Sorry to say I do think that is my own personal information that is not any of your business.

    Novalox, “hominem attacks” you are funny.

    I told my story and you can belive it or not, I don’t care. I know that vaccines are not safe and know “100’s” yes “100’s” of people whith children who were also injured by vaccines.

    BTW…can you all send me proof that you are who you say you are? SSN, passports, photo iseas…..maybe an eye scan. You may not be using your real names and without the proof…I don’t think I can take you as credible.

    Like

  57. Chris
    July 16, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    We may all be elves living at the North Pole. There is no way to know who is posting, all you have to on is the quality of the evidence they use.

    Like

  58. July 16, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    Yes….like evidence in the OJ trial…..some think he is actually guilty, but the legal system officially says he was not.

    Like

  59. Chris
    July 16, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    Never apply legal rules of evidence to science. They have different criteria. Plus when there is new information, the conclusions of what the data say will change.

    Like

  60. July 16, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    Point well taken…just a bad analogy. The point is science is not black and white….we learn more everyday, which leads me back to the latest studies etc….Some of that information may not be “paper” qualified yet….but when there are so many similarities…it’s quite apparent what is going on. Time will tell for sure….I belive this will be a whole other conversation a few years from now when the latest research goes through the processes. For now, we can agree to disagree. BTW….off the subject….did you see this paper on the ineffectiveness of this vaccine http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22423127
    Besides vaccine’s not being safe for everybody….they don’t appear to work all of the time.

    Like

  61. Lawrence
    July 17, 2012 at 5:23 am

    @jt – once again, you avoid answering the very simplest of questions. You made the original claim that your daughter was injured by a vaccine. There is a mechanism for you to receive compensation – did you file a claim or not?

    Simple yes or no answer there, not asking for any personal details or your address, and if you didn’t file a claim, why not?

    Seriously, this isn’t that hard…..

    Like

  62. Chris
    July 17, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    jtdubb13:

    Besides vaccine’s not being safe for everybody….they don’t appear to work all of the time.

    It is well known that the effectiveness of the DTaP and Tdap vaccines are not ideal. But if you read this:

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2005 May;24(5 Suppl):S58-61.
    Duration of immunity against pertussis after natural infection or vaccination.

    … You will learn that even after getting pertussis and feeling like you are coughing your lungs out for three months the immunity also does not last, sometimes waning is less than five years. It is disingenuous to expect immunity from the vaccine to last longer than actually getting the disease.

    Plus it is definitely safer to get the DTaP and Tdap than to actually get diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis. Now if you have real evidence contrary to that statement and the citations I posted above (on July 10th and 14th), then please present it.

    Because all you did by posting “Unexpectedly limited durability of immunity following acellular pertussis vaccination in preadolescents in a North American outbreak.” is that another booster should be required between ages four and eleven. I suspect that will become a recommendation in the next couple of years.

    In the meantime you should make sure that you, your spouse and all of your adolescent and older relatives get a Tdap booster.

    Like

  63. July 17, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    If the effectiveness is not ideal..then it is not worth the risk. I am not going to assume that more boosters does anything but weaken my immune system. BTW…why is that not real evidence? I thought this was all about the papers? As I said before, let’s agree to disagree. We see this very differently….you prefer to get as many boosters as possible and inject your body with all kinds of nasty things and risk of being injured from the vaccinations and I prefer to keep my body and immune system strong and risk catching diseases. Your choice and my choice.

    Like

  64. Lawrence
    July 17, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    @jt – false choice. The chances of being injured by the disease are much, much higher than with the vaccination.

    And please avoid the “Nirvana” fallacy as well, nothing is perfect, not even your “strong” immune system.

    Like

  65. July 17, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Thanks for being concerned Lawrence….I know I’ve got to do better with my immune system.

    I don’t know what false choice means? I have been researching and educating myself on vaccines for the last 2-3 years so I am very comfortable with my decisions.

    It’s funny you would say the risk of being injured is much higher from the disease than a vaccine, when my own daughter was injured by a vaccine. Why do you think I have a dog in this fight? What do you think motives me to learn as much as possible? It was because of what happened to my daughter.

    Like

  66. Chris
    July 17, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    jtdubb13:

    I thought this was all about the papers?

    It obvious you fail to understand the papers show the consensus of the science. You need to understand how to read and evaluate the science. It is clear that you still do not understand the nuances, or even how to evaluate the risks.

    But if you are willing to have an open mind then here are some good reads on how to read and interpret things on science:

    Lies, Damned Lies, and Science: How to Sort through the Noise Around Global Warming, the Latest Health Claims, and Other Scientific Controversies by Sherry Seethaler

    Snake Oil Science: The Truth About Complementary and Alternative Medicine by R. Barker Bausell Ph.D.

    Bad Science by Dr. Ben Goldacre

    Like

  67. Lawrence
    July 17, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    @jt – and yet you still won’t answer the simple question about filing a claim…..I wonder why?

    And yours is a false choice – because the chances of serious side-effects with the disease are much, much higher (by a magnitude or more) than anything that you might suffer from a vaccine.

    There is a reason that vaccines were invented in the first place – and it wasn’t about profits.

    Like

  68. lilady
    July 17, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    I’m wondering why jtdubb13 did NOT take his daughter to the doctor, in light of a high fever that persisted for two weeks.

    The doctor, at a minimum, would have examined her, looking for a red inflamed throat or bulging ear drum, drawn blood for a WBC test with differential…to determine if the fever was viral or bacterial in origin. Perhaps the doctor would also send the urine out to a lab for cell count and culture/sensitivity. Why didn’t jtdubb 13 take the child to her doctor to check out her rash that appeared after the fever abated?

    We don’t know the child’s age. If she was a young child and had been taken to the doctor twice for prolonged fever and had her blood draw for WBC/differential blood tests…then for the appearance of an allover rash…the doctor might have been able to diagnose roseola:

    http://pediatrics.about.com/cs/commoninfections/a/roseola.htm

    Your arguments against vaccines, based only on your anecdotal information about a “mysterious illness not diagnosed by a doctor”…are not impressive jtdubb13

    Like

  69. July 17, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Chris, what was it about the paper that I don’t understand? Please enlighten me.

    Lawrence – and yet you are not getting it….why are you just saying the same things over and over, when I have already answered your questions? Seems to me that you just like to pick fights and cause trouble. As I have said before, you don’t add any value to these conversations. Did I say anything about profits? Did you not hear me when I said my daughter was injured by a vaccine, and yet you keep telling me how safe they are.

    Like

  70. Lawrence
    July 17, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    @jt – yet you have offered no proof. We don’t just take people’s word for it. Plus, you refuse to answer if you have participated in the Vaccine Court, since you seem to be a perfect case for it.

    Why don’t you answer the question – at this point, how about just yes or no?

    Like

  71. July 17, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Lilady – you are really funny….everything you say seems so scripted. Have you noticed how Chris and I talk and have a conversation going back and forth? This is the way people communicate. I really couldn’t care if you believe my daughter was injured or not.

    Like

  72. July 17, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Lawrence, and yet you keep coming back again…..I have answered your questions. Don’t take my word for it Lawrence…..we’ll agree that you are not taking my word for it.

    Like

  73. Chris
    July 17, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    jtdubb13:

    Chris, what was it about the paper that I don’t understand? Please enlighten me.

    It only discussed the efficacy of the vaccine, not its safety. Now compare it to the paper I posted on how long immunity lasts after actually getting pertussis. Tell us why the vaccine should be better.

    Like

  74. July 17, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    uhh yes, I wasn’t talking about the safety…..I even said “off the subject” before showing it to you. Ok – I compared it to your paper and I still have the same conclusion. Getting that vaccine is not effective in protecting you.

    Like

  75. Lawrence
    July 17, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    @jt – as it is “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” You were the one that claims that your daughter suffered a vaccine injury – since we know that any such side effects from vaccine are exceedingly rare, it makes perfect sense to ask you if you have evidence to back this up – which would include an entry in the VAERS database & also a claim filed in the Vaccine Court.

    Not answering the question isn’t giving us an answer – again, a simple yes or no – did you file a claim based on your child having a “vaccine injury.” If not, why did you not file a claim in the very system set up to take care of issues such as yours?

    Saying “stupid” was definitely too strong a word, and I do apologize for that – but your lack of understanding of vaccines, their history, safety record vs. the diseases they prevent, etc, do lead me to believe that you are nonetheless, willfully ignorant.

    Like

  76. July 17, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    I don’t why the vaccine should be better in protecting you? Can you tell me why it should be better?

    Like

  77. July 17, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Lawrence, thank you…I feel the same exact way about you. It’s mutual. I don’t believe you have educated yourself and believe that you are ignorant as well.

    Like

  78. Lawrence
    July 17, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    @jt – unlike you, I have the ability to answer simple questions & not try to change the subject…..

    Like

  79. July 17, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    Lawrence – you are a better man than me.

    Like

  80. Chris
    July 17, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    jtdubb13:

    – I compared it to your paper and I still have the same conclusion. Getting that vaccine is not effective in protecting you.

    Which paper? Can you be specific, I posted several.

    Anyway, the one paper you posted pretty much showed what has been known for a while. The vaccine is not great, but it is better than nothing, and much better than actually getting pertussis (and much much better than getting diphtheria and tetanus).

    So the argument that the Tdap and DTaP are not perfect, therefore they are not “worth the risk” is illogical. As one paper I posted earlier, Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story, showed: the countries with more people who vaccinate for pertussis have fewer cases. This is even with the imperfect vaccine.

    So, yes, you need to explain why something is not perfect makes it not worth the trouble. If you take that argument to its extremes you would never decided on anything. You would not decide on a place to live, which car to buy, which school to attend, what clothes to buy, or even what groceries you would eat. Nothing in this world is perfect.

    Like

  81. lilady
    July 17, 2012 at 7:26 pm

    @ jtdubb13:

    “Lilady – you are really funny….everything you say seems so scripted.”

    Scripted, you say….why no, that is the Standard of Care that doctors provide for a child with FUO (fever of unknown origin).

    When Lawrence asked you if you filled out a VAERS report and to provide him with the link, you went all huffy on him…

    “Lawreence, Sorry to say I do think that is my own personal information that is not any of your business.”

    Have you ever checked the VAERS website, where all identifying information is redacted, jt?

    You were “lucky” in 2009, when you neglected your child by not taking her to a physician for a two weeks duration fever. For you child’s sake, I hope you remain “lucky”, jt.

    Like

  82. jtdubb13
    July 18, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Hey Chris…if it doesn’t work effectively to protect me then it is not worth the risk of injury. It’s not “not worth the trouble” it’s not worth the risk of injury. Make sense?

    lilady….not sure why you are intentionally misrepresenting me? I never said anything about not taking my daughter to a physician when she was sick. That is a complete fabrication on your part; shame on you. Also, why are you so condescending, ending all of your sentences with my name? If I were you, I would lose the ego and get down to earth.

    Like

  83. lilady
    July 18, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    “lilady….not sure why you are intentionally misrepresenting me? I never said anything about not taking my daughter to a physician when she was sick.”

    Au contraire, jt. You were asked for some specifics about your daughter’s reactions to a vaccine, including why you didn’t take your daughter to a doctor for a two weeks duration for FUO…and did not answer them. So did you take your daughter to a physician and did the physician do a physical examination? What blood tests did he/she perform and what where the results of those tests? Here’s your chance jt, to really “stick it to me” for assuming that your non-answers indicated that you did not take your child to her doctor and that you weren’t given the results of any laboratory tests. So…give it your best shot, now.

    “That is a complete fabrication on your part; shame on you.”

    Again, give it your best shot, jt.

    “Also, why are you so condescending, ending all of your sentences with my name?”

    Sorry, if you don’t like the manner that I post comments and the use of your name when I post. ( /sarcasm).

    If I were you, I would lose the ego and get down to earth.

    I am “down to earth”, jt. I *know* about immunology, vaccine-preventable diseases and Standards of Care for pediatric practice…and you don’t.

    Like

  84. July 18, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    lilady, thank you for making my points.

    I gave you an answer, and it was something like, “it’s none of your business”. That is an answer. Your assumptions are exactly those…assumptions. When you assume something and state it as a fact and it is not correct, that is considered a lie.

    The manner in which you post comments is condescending and now you have added sarcastic as well, that’s fine.

    Ego – “you know about all of this and I don’t” Your experience “trumps” my experience. Need I say more?

    For future reference, if you decide you want to have meaningful conversations with somebody, you should consider losing the attitude and the ego and maybe people will talk to you and answer your questions.

    Like

  85. lilady
    July 18, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    jt…Why should we believe anything you say and, why should we believe your opinion/blanket condemnation of vaccines?

    You made an incursion on this blog with this first statement…

    “This is all ridiculous….the FACT is vaccine’s are not safe for everybody and it is not a small number as you are indicating. Vaccine’s weren’t safe for my daughter, and I know that as a fact. There is so much new information out from the last couple of years, please educate yourself. PLEASE”

    You have steadfastly, refused to provide citations, have not read the abundant studies that were cited for you…and refuse to provide minimal detail about your daughter’s supposed vaccine injury.

    Trying to generate traffic for your new blog, eh jt?

    3-2-1 jt makes a statement how we are “picking on him” and leaves this blog in a huff.

    Like

  86. Chris
    July 18, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    jtdubb13:

    Hey Chris…if it doesn’t work effectively to protect me then it is not worth the risk of injury. It’s not “not worth the trouble” it’s not worth the risk of injury. Make sense?

    What risk of injury? How is the Tdap more dangerous than tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis? Pertussis is presently making the rounds, even if you have had it before you can get it again. What exactly is the risk of injury from the vaccine from the very real risk of pertussis? There is no herd immunity from tetanus, you may find yourself with a scratch from a plant, or even a bug bite. What kind of vaccine injury is worse than tetanospasmin? And even if you survive tetanus, there is no immunity from the bacteria.

    Please provide the citations that outline the exact risks of injury from the vaccine versus actually getting one of those three diseases. And don’t think that diphtheria can not come back: Diphtheria in the former Soviet Union: reemergence of a pandemic disease..

    Like

  87. July 18, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    lilady….I stand behind my first statement that it is ridiculous to say that vaccines are safe.

    Yes, I am huffing now I feel so sad…NOT! I feel sorry for you.

    If you don’t want to believe that my daughter was injured by a vaccine, that is fine by me. I give you permission to believe whatever you want.

    Chris, are you still trying to convince me that vaccines are safe? Show you some citations? You know my story and just so you know, there is no way in the world you will ever convince me that vaccines are safe. As I have said before, we can agree to disagree.

    Like

  88. Chris
    July 18, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    No, jtdubb13, I am trying to you to show me that the risk of injury a vaccine is greater than the risk of injury from the diseases. I want to to tell exactly what the risks are from the vaccine, and then compare that to the diseases.

    I know you cannot be convinced that they are safe. You need to convince us that they are dangerous, using real citations. If you wish to agree to disagree, that is fine. But it also means that we do not have to believe anything you post, and that includes your personal stories.

    Like

  89. July 18, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    Chris…..I never said you had to beleive any of my stories. I have my experience and knowledge, and you have yours. That’s why America is great, we can have two different opinions.

    Like

  90. Chris
    July 18, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    In short: if you are going to continue to claim that vaccines are not safe, then we will continue to ask you to back that statement up with real verifiable scientific evidence.

    Like

  91. July 18, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Fair enough Chris….as I said above I have my knowledge and you have yours.

    Like

  92. Chris
    July 18, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    You are welcome to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.

    Like

  93. July 18, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    Funny

    Like

  94. Chris
    July 18, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    Not really. It is a common saying, and quite fitting in regards to the all caps word you used in your first post. Which is why we keep asking you to support your statements with real verifiable scientific evidence.

    Like

  95. July 18, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    I still think it is quite humerous….I am sorry for laughing.

    Like

  96. Quokka
    July 18, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    jtdubb13 – you are out of your depth here. It appears to me that you did not understand that this site is about evidence based medicine and providing accurate information to families.

    It is as though you came to this site to tell your story but when asked to substantiate your claim realised you couldn’t.

    Having worked with many many families of children with disabilities and terminally ill children they become very able to explain in detail all of the medical procedures and tests performed on their children. Many parents and the children themselves are required to explain these tests and results regularly to teachers, Disabiltiy Services Agencies, new doctors, nurses, therapists etc.

    You are obviously very angry and it is sad to hear of any child suffering but you are doing niether of you any good behaving the way you are here. Maybe you should save your story for dinner parties where people will nod in sympathy rather than try and engage you in a genuine discussion.

    Like

  97. July 19, 2012 at 1:03 am

    Chris…you are right, I got in too deep and am now swimming with sharks. I mistakenly thought this was a community blog where individuals, parents, medical professionals and others could gather to discuss questions and current events regarding immunizations. BTW….I am having a dinner party next week and would like you to come….I’ve got a few stories to tell you. Have a great night Chris.

    Like

  98. Lawrence
    July 19, 2012 at 6:50 am

    @jt – yes, this is a community that discusses current events about vaccinations, dealing with facts and Science, not conjecture, innuendo & fear-mongering…..since you don’t seem to be able to hold an honest discussion, provide answers to simple questions, or want to listen to opposing viewpoints backed up with actual Science and evidence, I’m not sure what you would hope to accomplish here….other than to make yourself look foolish.

    Like

  99. July 19, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Thank you Lawrence – have a great day my friend!

    Like

  100. Rebeccarustlee@yahoo.com
    July 29, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Alicia, you probably have mercury toxicity and need to chelate. Check out frequent low dose chelation yahoo group.

    Like

  101. July 29, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Lawrence :
    not conjecture, innuendo & fear-mongering……

    Fear mongering is selling remedies for the healthy and threatening them with illness if they refuse to buy.

    And worse, denying any responsibility when after the “remedy” the “saved one” is suddenly dead or sick.

    Like

  1. September 6, 2012 at 11:06 am

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