Home > General Info, Get Involved, In the News > Vaccine Supporters, Get Out Your Megaphones

Vaccine Supporters, Get Out Your Megaphones

Last week, Dr. David Katz, the founding director of Yale University’s Prevention Research Center, wrote an article for the Huffington Post.  He explained his concern about the future of public health, stating that if we continue a trend towards rising rates of preventable diseases, coupled with declining rates of vaccination, that we may be taking a step backwards in the future.

One of my favorite quotes from this article pertained to Dr. Katz’s comments on the prevalence of vaccine misinformation in which he states,

“But in the internet age, crazy, paranoid nonsense and hard-earned, thoughtful, evidence-based expertise have the same megaphone.”

I particularly love his use of the word megaphone.  But I disagree with his statement.

Yes, crazy, paranoid nonsense is often amplified online, much like being broadcast with a megaphone.  However, in my opinion, the hard-earned, thoughtful, evidence-based expertise is barely audible in comparison.  Sure, Dr. Katz is doing his part by contributing to the Huffington Post, but I believe that many more megaphones are needed  if we are to adequately address certain public health challenges such as a possible decline in vaccination rates.

The way I see it, the majority of people who support vaccination (illustrated by the fact that they are themselves vaccinated) aren’t engaged in the conversation.  Sure they recognize the dangers of disease.  They even understand the benefits of vaccines.  That is why they comply with the recommendations of their doctors and other experts.  But that is often where there their engagement ends.  It’s not a selfish thing; it’s just that they don’t feel the need to be involved in the discussion.  I believe there are many people who don’t even realize that vaccine hesitancy exists.  Which helps explains why people don’t really understand the threat that vaccine hesitancy has on our public health.  It’s not that they don’t want to help.  It’s just that they don’t see the need.

Yet, if you visit a parenting chat group these days you’ll find that there are plenty of parents who come to these forums seeking information about vaccines.  Just as they have questions about breastfeeding, developmental milestones and discipline techniques, these parents often rely on the “expertise” of other parents who’ve “been there”.

While there are certainly plenty of parents who are well-informed and educated regarding vaccines, the ones who tend to be the most prominent in these forums are the ones shouting through the megaphones.  Sadly, their messages are often a combination of anecdotal stories that inject fear, or links to poor sources that serve to improperly validate a parent’s concerns.  Then, when parents do a Google search on vaccines the top hits are most often those responsible for the majority of the misinformation.

Even though there are plenty of accurate and informative websites, such as the CDC’s vaccine pages, Every Child By Two’s Vaccinate Your Baby site, The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia’s Vaccine Education Center and various public health sites, parents will only benefit from this evidence based information if they somehow manage to discover these sites among the sea of misinformation they are bombarded with.

Meanwhile, health care professionals are eagerly awaiting their day in the exam room, when they can address parents’ questions, explain the risks of disease and promote the benefits of vaccination.  But how many parents arrive at these appointments with immunization biases they’ve developed from unreliable sites?  And how many are able to hear what their doctor has to say when they have megaphone voices ringing in their heads?

Certainly nurses, doctors and other health care providers can be very influential in a parent’s decision to vaccinate, but perhaps we need them to be part of a preemptive strike.  If we can facilitate an earlier immunization discussion between parents and experts, would it be possible for the evidence based information to receive equal, if not preferable, consideration?

As health departments in states like VT and CA attempt to increase immunization rates and improve public health efforts, they are also trying to alert politicians to the concerns of declining vaccination rates in our schools due to the increasing use of philosophical exemptions to vaccines.  For instance, the VT House Health Care Committee is hearing testimony this week in response to a proposed bill that would eliminate the use of philosophical exemptions to vaccines.  Similarly, CA has proposed a bill that would retain the use of personal belief exemptions for parents, but would require parents to receive a written statement signed by a health practitioner that verifies that they were provided with information about the benefits and risks of immunizations, as well as the risks of certain vaccine-preventable diseases before allowing the exemption.

Last week, shortly after the CA bill was introduced, Liz Ditz wrote several blog posts that addressed the objectives of the bill, as well as the opposition’s concerns.   She has even compiled a list of other articles that help to detail the pros and cons of the bill to do her best to help people understand all the considerations.

Both the medical community and the public health experts know that an increased number of exemptions can increase the risk of disease for our school children.   However, the politicians also need to hear from concerned parents as well.  Parents who want to ensure that our children are protected from preventable diseases.  But what may be considered prudent and reasonable to most parents, is unfortunately being criticized and opposed by those with big megaphones.  As one concerned physician explains in testimony to be heard in VT,

“I am concerned that the focus is being drawn away from the true issue at hand: does an individual’s philosophical right to refuse vaccines outweigh the health threats to the public at large. This is not a stage for unqualified individuals to rehash outdated concerns about the efficacy and safety of vaccines.”

We intend to keep our readers informed of the progress of these bills, and any others that are introduced in the future.  However, if you live in VT or CA we encourage you to get involved now.  Additionally, if you would like to receive more information about the various ways you can show your support for vaccines, please visit our “Get Involved” page on the Vaccinate Your Baby website and we will be sure to let you know how you can be help support public health and vaccinations all across the country.

  1. Richard
    March 29, 2012 at 10:13 am

    “However, in my opinion, the hard-earned, thoughtful, evidence-based expertise is barely audible in comparison.”

    I would agree, the evidence against vaccines in general is routinely stifled by a mainstream media who is largely run by only a few individuals all of whom have very large stocks in pharmaceutical companies.

    Excellent point Christine.

    Most people would rather believe the word of someone like Anderson Cooper or George Stephanopoulous touting that the IOM has rules vaccines safe that those who are medically trained research scientists pointing out that in the vast majority of cases the IOM couldn’t find any evidence that vaccines were either safe or not safe and couldn’t define “rare” when it came to serious adverse reactions.

    But mainstream media went right out with “Vaccine safety given another approval”

    Like

  2. Lawrence
    March 29, 2012 at 10:32 am

    @Richard – how about so “rare” that in most cases, it was impossible to determine if the vaccine was responsible (because of the very reason that they happened so infrequently as fall below the threshold for analysis).

    Like

  3. March 29, 2012 at 10:55 am

    “Rare” cannot be defined, since our vaccine adverse events reporting system is so highly flawed and unreliable. The fact that many reactions cannot be definitively linked to vaccines only serves to demonstrate and highlight this inadequacy. To imply that our lack of reliable data supports either a pro or anti-vaccine position is misleading and irresponsible.

    Like

  4. Lawrence
    March 29, 2012 at 11:58 am

    If you have so few events occuring within a very large population to make them statistically “nil” how exactly are you supposed to be able to assign direct blame?

    It isn’t that there isn’t reliable data – because hundreds of studies that involved millions of people & they did a great job of actually pointing out those side-effects that were statistically significant.

    Of course, there were some that occurred in so few cases (in some cases, only reported once or twice out of millions), that they could not be linked to the vaccine or vaccine use.

    If you don’t understand the science, you really need to stop throwing around the same tired crap over and over again.

    Like

  5. Steve Michaels
    March 29, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    It is quite funny! On one hand, this site preaches ‘freedom of choice’ and promotion of education, on the other it is actively pushing for removal of choice and stifling of opposing views. Now before Christine gets too upset, I commend her for not censoring comments on here. I know that selective editing is used by sites on both sides of the vaccine debate, but Christine has consistently allowed all points of view to be aired.

    Having said that, I can’t help but wonder why, if there is such a preponderance of ‘proof’ that vaccines are safe and effective, that as more and more people actually do become educated, more and more people are choosing NOT to vaccinate…. The way it appears is that if education doesn’t work, then legislation is the next alternative. Why? Because education is not bringing about the correct result. Why? Because regardless of the propaganda claims, vaccine safety and efficacy has NOT been proven. In fact, as I pointed out to Nathan on a separate thread, vaccine science is FAR from settled now that Harvard has discovered that the entire theory of immune function is incorrect. It the immune theory, upon which the vaccine theory is built, is wrong, then so it the vaccine theory. In fact, it could be argued that all of the supposed supporting science of vaccination was merely coincidental. Hmmm…. isn’t that what provaxers claim is the case with virtually all cases of vaccine adverse reactions and damage? Now it becomes apparent why the shrieks for legislation are growing shriller.

    What is really funny is how this type of legislation only affects the middle and lower income levels. No legislation is binding for home or privately schooled children, a group of predominately wealthier people. No, this type of legislation is designed to rein in the middle and lower income people who don’t have any option but public schooling, and yet it is wholly ineffective in it’s claimed desired outcome. All sorts of kids, vaccinated or not, still come into contact with each other in shops, gyms, social gatherings, church, etc. So why the legislation? Unless it is just another attempt for government to force people to buy products they neither want nor need from corporations they would rather not support…. The term for that is ‘corporatism’, or by it’s more common name, ‘fascism’.

    Like

  6. Lara Lohne
    March 29, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    I find it interesting that after a post like this, the anti-vax crowd is always the first to sound out and always spouting the same, old and tired anti-vax propaganda that they’ve been sprouting for at least a generation. None of their arguments have changed since my mom shouted them so loudly when I was a child, unless it’s that autism is the new buzz topic for them. They hold fast to their beliefs with religious fervor and refuse to believe the truth. These people are equate with the snake that tempted Eve. They don’t really know what’s best, don’t speak the truth, but unfortunately are convincing due to their use of emotion instead of fact, which tends to be lacking on any kind of passion and very dry at the same time. I can understand why people are more prone to believe those with the passion behind their shouts, but there comes a time when a rational, thinking person knows in the case of medical science, they need to put feelings aside, place their passion on hold, and listen to the truth, however boring it might be to hear. I know I’m going to be attacked for saying this, because they can’t handle the truth really. Just a note to those that do attack, you are in fact adding credibility to my statements by attacking them. So attack away, but I will not respond because honestly I find petty arguments over fact vs. fiction tedious and pointless. The science speaks for itself, if you choose to ignore it, that’s not my fault. I don’t like being abused, which is why I don’t respond when my posts are attacked for the most part. Your ranting isn’t worth my time.

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  7. March 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    Thanks for the shout-out, Christine. I am going to continue to blog about AB 2109, and the misrepresentations of its import by the anti-vaccination community, until the bill is voted on in the legislature.

    If you are a supporter of public health, social justice (the costs of vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks fall most heavily on the poor) and evidence-based policy, I urge you to get involved. If you are a Californian, AB 2109 will be heard in committee April 17th. Please contact the Health Committee members and express your views. This blog post has contact information for the California Assembly Health Committee.

    Like

  8. March 29, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    Steve claims “now that Harvard has discovered that the entire theory of immune function is incorrect” but provides no citations. This is standard operating procedure: make claims without citations so that no one can validate.

    Like

  9. March 29, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    Lawrence :
    If you have so few events occuring within a very large population to make them statistically “nil” how exactly are you supposed to be able to assign direct blame?
    It isn’t that there isn’t reliable data – because hundreds of studies that involved millions of people & they did a great job of actually pointing out those side-effects that were statistically significant.
    Of course, there were some that occurred in so few cases (in some cases, only reported once or twice out of millions), that they could not be linked to the vaccine or vaccine use.
    If you don’t understand the science, you really need to stop throwing around the same tired crap over and over again.

    “It isn’t that there isn’t reliable data,” is evidence that you fail to understand how inadequate our reporting system is. It absolutely IS that there isn’t reliable data. VAERS is an under-reported, highly flawed, passive system. The data which is able to be extracted is mostly ignored in favor of blanket, far-over-reaching statements refering to all the “hundreds of studies” which prove that vaccines are the magical medicine that saves all of mankind. No drug is as safe as vaccine proponents often claim vaccines are. It is naive to think that vaccine side effects are well understood, when they are simply not. The data isn’t there and there is no attempt to remedy the lack of data.

    Like

  10. Lawrence
    March 29, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    @RV – the Results: 1 to 20 of 10170 that I just pulled up in PubMed for Vaccine Safety gives lie to your statement.

    Like

  11. March 29, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    Steve claims “No legislation is binding for home or privately schooled children, a group of predominately wealthier people.”

    This shows Steve’s research skills. It took me a minute to get to:

    http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/immunize/Pages/ImmunizationRatesatCaliforniaSchools.aspx

    And another minute to get to the following (emphasis added):

    Health and Safety Code, Division 105, Part 2, Chapter 1, Sections 120325-120380

    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=hsc&group=120001-121000&file=120325-120380

    120335. (a) As used in this chapter, “governing authority” means
    the governing board of each school district or the authority of each
    other private or public institution responsible for the operation and
    control of the institution or the principal or administrator of each
    school or institution.
    (b) The governing authority shall not unconditionally admit any
    person as a pupil of any private or public elementary or secondary
    school, child care center, day nursery, nursery school, family day
    care home, or development center, unless, prior to his or her first
    admission to that institution, he or she has been fully immunized.
    The following are the diseases for which immunizations shall be
    documented:
    (1) Diphtheria.
    (2) Haemophilus influenzae type b.
    (3) Measles.
    (4) Mumps.
    (5) Pertussis (whooping cough).
    (6) Poliomyelitis.
    (7) Rubella.
    (8) Tetanus.
    (9) Hepatitis B.
    (10) Varicella (chickenpox).
    (11) Any other disease deemed appropriate by the department,
    taking into consideration the recommendations of the Advisory
    Committee on Immunization Practices of the United States Department
    of Health and Human Services, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and
    the American Academy of Family Physicians.

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  12. March 29, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    researchvaccines :

    “It isn’t that there isn’t reliable data,” is evidence that you fail to understand how inadequate our reporting system is. It absolutely IS that there isn’t reliable data. VAERS is an under-reported, highly flawed, passive system.

    You really don’t understand how VAERS works, do you?

    And why are you ignoring the other system, the Vaccine Safety Datalink?

    The Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) project is a collaborative effort between CDC’s Immunization Safety Office and 10 managed care organizations (MCOs). The VSD project was established in 1990 to monitor immunization safety and address the gaps in scientific knowledge about rare and serious events following immunization.

    Like

  13. Steve Michaels
    March 29, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    Read what I said liz, “In fact, as I pointed out to Nathan on a separate thread, vaccine science is FAR from settled now that Harvard has discovered that the entire theory of immune function is incorrect.”

    The citation was provided on the thread I was referring to. Here it is again.

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/242403.php

    Here is the opening commentary: “A new study turns the well established theory that antibodies are required for antiviral immunity upside down and reveals that an unexpected partnership between the specific and non-specific divisions of the immune system is critical for fighting some types of viral infections.”

    Like

  14. Steve Michaels
    March 29, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    So California has covered the loop hole. It only adds to my point that legislation only targets middle and lower income groups as wealthier people can opt out by sending their kids out of California to avoid the restrictions while others cannot afford it. And please don’t accuse me of trying to make this a class issue. I am not stinking rich, but I am above middle class by a fairly wide margin.

    Like

  15. Steve Michaels
    March 29, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    You completely lost credibility after you posted your ‘story’ on here previously. I have presented you with your straw man argument when you couldn’t actually refute my actual argument.

    https://shotofprevention.com/2012/03/08/laras-story-part-2-vaccines-and-autism/#comment-7474

    Look it back up and see if you can redeem yourself.

    You have now also diminished your credibility further with the comment, “I find it interesting that after a post like this, the anti-vax crowd is always the first to sound out and always spouting the same, old and tired anti-vax propaganda that they’ve been sprouting for at least a generation. None of their arguments have changed since my mom shouted them so loudly when I was a child, unless it’s that autism is the new buzz topic for them.”

    Did you actually read the comment or jump to a conclusion without bothering? I suspect the latter as my reference was to BRAND NEW research than neither your Mom or anyone else could have been talking about as it was initially reported THIS month!

    So the question becomes this: who is it that cannot handle the truth? Your avoidance of presented arguments and obvious spouting of ‘tried and true’ sound bites should point most people in the right direction, and it’s not where you claim.

    Like

  16. March 30, 2012 at 1:27 am

    Steve, this legislation does not remove or prevent parents from refusing some or all vaccines for their children. The Personal Belief Exemption will still be available. It’s just that parents will have to do more than signing the back of the school’s vaccine form to get the exemption.

    Like

  17. Quokka
    March 30, 2012 at 6:34 am

    Steve, I read the report you linked to and it referred to research in mice that may impact viruses that attack the nervous system. They referred to possible consideration for west nile virus – for which there is currently no vaccine but did not discuss Polio which as you know is a virus that effects the central nervous system but has been nearly eradicated by vaccination.

    How do you think this research should be considerd in this context and what impact to do you think it will have on diseases that are caused by viruses that do not attack the central nervous system?

    If there are any actual biologists, or health care professionals out there who can answer or direct me that would be wonderful.

    Like

  18. March 30, 2012 at 9:36 am

    This is unacceptable. Parents should not need to jump through hoops in order to exercise their legal and ethical right to make medical decisions for their children.

    Like

  19. March 30, 2012 at 9:40 am

    Thank you for the information. I will make sure California parents that I am aquainted with contact their representatives to express the obvious importance of informed consent and parental freedoms.

    Like

  20. Snoozie
    March 30, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    @researchvaccines: Opting out of public health and free-riding on herd immunity, all while benefiting from tax-payer supported public education is not an ethical right. In fact, *that* is unacceptable.

    We all understand that the most vehement anti-vaxxers will not be convinced by time spent with actual medical professionals learning the facts about vaccines. However, people who are unsure of the facts and people who would vaccinate but are too unmotivated to do so will be convinced to vaccinate their children, and then we have hope to maintain some level of herd immunity.

    Like

  21. Snoozie
    March 30, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    Actually, Steve, there is a response to your comment awaiting your reply. After your vitriolic and ad hominem attacks on Lara, I do not blame her for ignoring you. Your tendency toward personal attacks shows your desperation.

    Like

  22. March 31, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    Note the reference to vaccine skepticism as “crazy, paranoid nonsense”. Can you not see the manipulation here? The message Dr. Katz and this article is really promoting is that if you suspect, or have decided for yourself, that the benefits offered by vaccines are not worth the risks, or you believe there are more effective methods of preventing disease and choose to focus on those measures, you are a nutjob!

    I also find it interesting that Katz, in his article, felt the need to associate craziness with the concept of depopulation (see the documentary “Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement”, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZho , fmi on depopulation and eugenics). Their fear of the unstoppable global awakening is written all over their faces and becoming increasingly obvious in their propaganda.

    “Sure they recognize the dangers of disease. They even understand the benefits of vaccines. That is why they comply with the recommendations of their doctors and other experts.”

    Umm, noooo! You are not supposed to just COMPLY based on the assumption that they’re the experts and therefore must know what’s best for us. Many top experts disagree on an endless list of issues and all make errors from time to time.

    Yes, CONSIDER the physician’s advice, read scientific research, but never make decisions based solely on trust in another’s expertise. Too many people have died or suffered due to putting too much trust in the experts and failing to trust their own inner guidance system.

    One could take the right statistics and figures and make a very convincing argument either for or against vaccines. Ultimately we have to listen to our own hearts and employ common sense in making decisions that affect our health and nobody should be ridiculed, marginalised and labelled crazy or paranoid when our hearts AND minds are putting up big red flags when it comes to vaccination.

    This article also suggests that people don’t think for themselves and need to be told what to think. That people are choosing not to vaccinate because they are hearing “crazy nonsense” on the internet and are too dumb to think critically. Is that really how you see your readers? No, of course not. They’re the sane, sensible ones who vaccinate. Not like us lunatics who don’t believe in potentially sacrificing our children for the “greater good” of humanity!

    We kooks, who have been moved by the countless personal stories of individuals injured or killed by vaccines and have decided we didn’t want to go through that suffering ourselves, or watch our loved ones suffer needlessly, when there are so many natural ways to support our immune systems that never killed or maimed anyone.

    If you really want people to listen to you, it’s probably not in your best interest to insult your target audience and suggest their doubts make them lunatics, unless your sole intent is to manipulate people’s emotions on a subconscious level so they associate healthy skepticism and non-compliance with mental illness, in which case you’re doing just fine.

    Like

  23. Lawrence
    March 31, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    @Tanya – I wonder exactly where you get your “countless stories” since I’ve very involved in my locality, school system & parent groups. I have yet to hear even a single such story – and you are the last person that anyone should consider “sane & logical.”

    Seriously, read Matt Tabibi’s “The Great Derangement” – it will give you a really good perspective on the reasons you think the way that you do. Chem-trails, my ass….

    Like

  24. Lawrence
    April 1, 2012 at 6:52 am

    @Tanya – actually, if there was something to your conspiracy theories (or to anything in that absolutely garbage “documentary” that YOU continually bring up – and seriously, I would recommend Matt’s book – it isn’t dull, isn’t droll, and actually talks about the issues from both sides – the scary, industry-dominated legislation part & the marginalized public and why they clinge to fringe political movements, religious groups, and conspiracies as a means of dealing with their own disillusionment with the current political process – so there, like I said, I think you’d actually like it) – then the world would be a much more interesting place, maybe more James Bond-y, as opposed to the normal, boring world in which we live.

    And if you want to play the schoolyard game – I was here first, you followed me, as far as I can tell. If you feel like I’m antagonizing you, you need a thicker skin (isn’t the Morgellon’s bio-engineering nanobots supposed to help with that? – sorry, I didn’t read the full warning labels before loading the chemtrail mixture into my plane last night).

    Food & Drug safety is a serious issue – the FDA doesn’t receive enough funding, they don’t have enough inspectors, Congress does get in the way by blocking effective legislation (Orrin Hatch is one of the worst offenders), and we can always do better. Unfortunately, there are people with an axe to grind that are using the current vaccine – autism scare as a means to promote their own anti-government / anti-medical establishment woo (a great way to make money by the way – with people like Mercola & Adams racking in millions from their supporters).

    My final recommendation to you would be to take a big step back, really look at your beliefs & the evidence in general. Like a good sceptic, put yourself in someone else’s shoes and try to see things from the other perspective.

    Like

  25. Steve Michaels
    April 1, 2012 at 10:59 am

    And what exactly is the topic, Bill Addressing VT Philosophical Exemptions is Halfway There” all about? Is it not the active use of this site to promote an end to personal exemptions of any kind? You are, as the saying goes, talking out both sides of your mouth and it has been noted.

    Like

  26. April 1, 2012 at 7:36 pm

    Oh looky what happened. The comment you were replying to got deleted…again. I guess censorship is part of what is meant by getting out your megaphones? Good reminder to me to always save my posts in a notepad so I can repost. I find once the censorship has been pointed out they usually leave your comment alone.

    I looked at the comment policy and I don’t see any violations. Is putting a guy in his place has been making rude comments regarding your mental health for the past 2 months (well, minus 5 days) considered a personal attack? Then again, from the tone of this article and it’s praise of Dr. Katz’s, the blog owners see nothing wrong with belittling sceptics and calling us crazy.

    I was asking Lawrence if he was a shill, a sicko or just an idiot because, despite saying repeatedly that he thinks I’m crazy, delusional, etc. (his many unkind, non-constructive remarks begin at comment #155 here http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/01/still_more_evidence_that_morgellons_dise_1.php) he has repeatedly felt the need to point out how crazy and delusional I am, bringing up the fact that I have Morgellons disease and am anti-geoengineering, I assume to try to discredit me(?).

    The way I was treated on that other blog inspired me to make a video entitled “PLEASE! Show Some Compassion Toward Morgellons Sufferer’s!” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgEVIcKLSxE). I shouldn’t even have had to say those things. The commenters are adults. What does this say about the attitudes we are modelling for our children?

    I am just confused by Lawrences behaviour, I guess. If I think what someone is saying has no merit, I am not normally compelled to keep listening to them. I don’t normally go about insulting people with whom I disagree, but if I was under the impression that person was mentally ill/unstable, I would show extra empathy toward them and certainly wouldn’t make fun of them! It’s not about me not having a thick enough skin (very tactful and mature joking about my struggles w/ Morgellons, btw), it is about how pathetic and childish it is for you to treat people in this manner.

    Lawrence very condescendingly advises me to “put yourself in someone else’s shoes and try to see things from the other perspective”. Well, that’s what I’m doing. I’m trying to figure out this guy’s motivation, so I’m asking for his perspective before drawing conclusions.

    Clearly we have different motivations, Lawrence, so I’m just trying to put myself in your shoes.

    I am not clinging to conspiracy theories. I only accept something that I have seen sufficient evidence to support. Some conspiracies are fact. Some things need to be exposed. This is not about my unresolved angst toward the system, this is about clearly seeing things happening that are hurting many people and doing what is necessary to stop the injustice.

    I don’t want to live in a “James Bond-y” world. I just want to live out my life in peace and have some relief from the physical and emotional pain I currently struggle with as the result of a manmade illness that the government is covering up.

    Anyways, it’s certainly not just autism that people are concerned about. If you looked at some of the stories on YouTube where people share their vaccine injury stories, many of those people are not autistic but have been injured in other ways, and not just from the MMR vaccine. The harm and deaths caused by the Gardasil vaccine, for example, is particularly disturbing.

    Lawrence, my final recommendation to you would be to take a big step back, really look at your beliefs & the evidence in general. Like a good sceptic, put yourself in someone else’s shoes and try to see things from the other perspective. 🙂

    Oh, and like I said in my previous post, if you really want people to listen to you, it’s probably not in your best interest to insult your target audience.

    Like

  27. Snoozie
    April 2, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    Steve, what an odd comment. Rereading what I have written, I stand by it. the most vehement anti-vaxxers will refuse to vaccinate no matter what laws are passed. The people whom we have the greatest hope of reaching are those who are on the fence or who are getting exemptions because exemptions are easier to get than vaccinations.

    Your comment about talking out of both sides of my mouth was interesting. You do understand that I did not write this article and that I am only commenting here under this name, yes?

    Like

  28. April 3, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Steve Michaels :
    Read what I said liz, “In fact, as I pointed out to Nathan on a separate thread, vaccine science is FAR from settled now that Harvard has discovered that the entire theory of immune function is incorrect.”
    The citation was provided on the thread I was referring to. Here it is again.
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/242403.php
    Here is the opening commentary: “A new study turns the well established theory that antibodies are required for antiviral immunity upside down and reveals that an unexpected partnership between the specific and non-specific divisions of the immune system is critical for fighting some types of viral infections.”

    You might actually pick up a copy of the journal if you are that interested. A commentary in the same issue states that “The production of neutralizing antibodies by B cells to protect against viral and bacterial infections is a hallmark of immunity and one of the primary goals of vaccination. However, recent reports including a paper in this issue of Immunity have revealed an additional previously unappreciated critical function of B cells as regulators of innate immunity to virus infection.”

    They found an additional role for B cells in this specific type of infection. That doesn’t make ‘the entire theory of immune function’ incorrect.

    Like

  29. Quokka
    April 3, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    Thank you for providing actual information and critical analysis of the report Steve provided. I had asked him some days ago to explain the impact of the research but got no response.

    Like

  30. gattarian
    April 3, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    I just KNEW that was what you thought the paper said.

    For the record, it is not.

    Please read this. Understand why it is relevant. If you do not, read it again.

    http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm

    Like

  31. gattarian
    April 3, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    He suffers quite badly from a severe misunderstanding of the relativity of wrong.

    Like

  32. usagi
    April 4, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    researchvaccines :
    VAERS is an under-reported, highly flawed, passive system. The data which is able to be extracted is mostly ignored in favor of blanket, far-over-reaching statements refering to all the “hundreds of studies” which prove that vaccines are the magical medicine that saves all of mankind. No drug is as safe as vaccine proponents often claim vaccines are. It is naive to think that vaccine side effects are well understood, when they are simply not. The data isn’t there and there is no attempt to remedy the lack of data.

    Why hello there EmmaGrace. I knew it was you as soon as I read this same old, tired, set of sentences, typed verbatim here from years past.

    I raise my hand in admitting that I had to put away my on-line megaphone because anti-vaxers like EmmaGrace (aka research vaccines above) took over parenting sites and spread their crap as far as the eye could see, giving me a massive migraine in the process. There is only so many times one can explain how VAERS works, how whale.to is not a reliable site for information, how herd immunity works, how you can’t get the flu from a flu shot, and how to read the vaccine ingrediant list from the CDC. It’s not just megaphones that we are fighting against, but also people that just wear you down with the same misinformation over and over and over again no matter how many times you point out the flaws in their arguments or correct factual errors. It’s incredibly frustrating and I don’t have the patience, sadly. 😦

    Like

  33. cia parker
    April 6, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Wow, that’s a lot of vaccines! No wonder there’s so much more autism and autoimmune disease these days! I’m so thankful that the Constitution guarantees us the free practice of religion, so that those of us who believe that God is appalled by this holocaust of vaccine damage can freely practice our religion and take a religious exemption, available everywhere but Mississippi and West Virginia.

    Like

  34. cia parker
    April 6, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Was your mom influenced by reading A Shot in the Dark? I cried the first time I read it. When I read about the Phil Donahue show on the first page, I thought, I used to watch that. And the first mom missed the segment on the program Vaccine Roulette, about the horrible, frequent reactions to the DPT, had her baby get it that morning, and he died horribly over the next few days. All the grisly case histories were based on real ones, with the names changed. The book and its story were so powerful that they got the DPT taken off the market, replaced by the supposedly safer DTaP (acellular), which causes fewer mild reactions, but just as many severe ones. There were also powerful groups which fought the smallpox vaccine which killed and damaged hundreds of thousands from the mid-nineteenth century on. Is your mother still alive, Lara? What does she think about the extremely powerful anti-vax movement now? What is her opinion on all the new vaccines?

    Like

  35. cia parker
    April 6, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Lawrence,
    You must not get out much. I’VE heard lots of personal stories from parents about how their children were vaccine-damaged. It may be that your attitude prevents people from telling you about the heartache of having seen their children’s health destroyed by vaccines.

    Like

  36. cia parker
    April 6, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    In addition, there’s a genetically inherited condition that makes a person unable to manufacture antibodies of any sort. Children who have the measles still get immunity, but without having manufactured any antibodies. Something else is providing the immunity.

    Burnet, M., The Integrity of the Human Body. Harvard University Press, Cambridge, 1962, 42-3.

    Good, R.A., Zak, S.J., Disturbances in Gamma Globulin Synthesis as ‘Experiments of Nature”, Pediatrics 1956, 18(1): 109-49.

    Like

  37. Lara Lohne
    April 6, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    @cia parker,
    My mother did no reading other then religious books, possibly got some of her information from watching TV shows but detested Donahue; she believed he was the devil incarnate. When the internet came into existence, she didn’t spend much time on it until the last few years of her life. Mostly she played solitaire on the computer.

    My mother is not alive, she died 5 and a half years ago from diabetes complications, which she didn’t have to suffer through had she just followed what doctors told her instead of searching for a cure on the internet. My mother was very much influenced by the anti-western medicine sentiment spoken repeatedly by her father and uncles who were chiropractors and believed chiropractics could cure everything, including my older brother’s cerebral palsy.

    Nothing my mother believed was based on any scientific evidence, just as your theories are not backed by science and you have nothing to prove your assertions are true. What my mother and the rest of her die-hard chiropractic family believed was not so different from beliefs of witch doctors and voodoo practitioners.

    What my mother believed about vaccines doesn’t matter in the end because I, as well as the rest of my siblings who have children, decided the best course of action was to vaccinate. Three of my sisters and I have between us 18 children, most were vaccinated on schedule with only a couple of exceptions (my older sister fought vaccines at first until she realized she didn’t have the endurance or patience to home school her children, which led to her getting them vaccinated also). Only one child out of those 18 has autism and he didn’t receive vaccines until after we knew something was not normal with him. Most of those children would have received vaccines containing thimerosal also only with the exception of the very youngest, and still no autism in them.

    Your emotional vehemence against vaccines doesn’t mean anything when held in the face of scientific evidence and research. More and more research is showing genetic influences and mutations along specific genes is responsible for autism. They are even starting to pin point which gene mutations are responsible for the varying degrees of severity in autism patients. Your religious beliefs and theories hold no water and they can’t stand up when so much evidence is contrary to them. No doubt you will take offense at my refusal to play along with your emotional tag, but in my mind, science has taken away the necessity for this pointless debate to continue.

    Like

  38. Nathan
    April 10, 2012 at 11:15 am

    Wow, that’s a lot of vaccines! No wonder there’s so much lessmore autism and autoimmune infectious disease these days!

    FTFY.

    Like

  39. Nathan
    April 10, 2012 at 11:16 am

    You must not get out much. I’VE heard lots of personal stories from parents about how their children were vaccine-damaged.

    No doubt you have. I believe that is called “confirmation bias.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

    Like

  40. November 27, 2012 at 9:36 am

    I have just heard from my sister, Mary.Love me,love my dog.I have my hair cut every month.How niceprettycoldfunnystupidboringinterestingMy car needs washing.I want to take a walk along the river bank, singing my favorite songs.I want to take a walk along the river bank, singing my favorite songs.Opportunity knocks but once.The answer is zero.I’m looking forward to a prompt reply.

    Like

  41. Lara Lohne
    November 27, 2012 at 11:03 am

    spam alert again!

    Like

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  43. January 16, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Patrick Hoggan is a spammer!

    Like

  1. April 7, 2014 at 12:14 am

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