Home > Science & Research, Vaccine Myths > A Family Struggles to Understand Seizures Following Vaccination

A Family Struggles to Understand Seizures Following Vaccination

It’s understandable that parents can be concerned about adverse reactions to vaccines.  Although they are rare, we know they exist.  However, from a medical standpoint, it’s also important that parents realize that just because a medical condition surfaces in the hours, days or weeks following a vaccination, doesn’t necessarily suggest that the event has been a result of the vaccination.

Just last week, a business colleague of mine, who has herself been involved in a vaccine trial, shared a relevant story.  Apparently, another participant in the trial had fallen and injured her head during the course of the study.  Even though the fall was a result of dancing on a table in a bar, the injury required a complete investigation to rule out the vaccine as a possible cause.  While most people would laugh at such a ridiculous suggestion, it exemplifies the strict guidelines of medical observation and investigation required during a study of vaccine safety.

It’s likely that when the average person reads about a seizure shortly after vaccination, they may understandably make the assumption that the seizure was caused by the vaccine.  While dancing on a table may be an extremely odd association to attribute to a vaccine,  there are common medical issues that are often mistakenly blamed on vaccination.  Seizures are often one of them.

Take for instance Laura Cossolotto, the mother highlighted in this Washington Post article.  Her daughter Michaela developed seizures three days after receiving her DTP shot.  For years she made the direct association that her daughter’s worsening condition was a direct result of this particular vaccination and in reading the article one can certainly see why.  As the article explains,

Cossolotto, who spent hours online desperately seeking answers, found the vaccine hypothesis persuasive, particularly after doctors failed to offer another explanation.

The article then elaborated on Michaela’s worsening symptoms by stating,

Despite test after test, no doctor could say what kind of epilepsy she had, and no cocktail of medications proved effective in controlling the seizures. Nor did doctors know the reasons for problems that emerged as she aged: delayed speech, mild mental retardation and serious growth deficiency.

As I read this article, my heart went out to this family.  They suffered through more than ten years of testing, medication and attempts at treatment.  Fortunately, a proper diagnosis was finally revealed that would help explain why Michaela’s condition had nothing to do with her vaccination.

The blood test for the SCN1A gene revealed that Michaela had Dravet syndrome, also known as severe myoclonic epilepsy of infancy, a rare and serious form of the seizure disorder….Dravet is usually caused by a spontaneous — not inherited — genetic mutation present at birth that affects the functioning of brain cells…Its hallmark is severe seizures during the first year of life that are difficult to control. Many children with Dravet, which occurs in one in every 20,000 to 40,000 births, also exhibit poor language skills, behavioral problems and cognitive deficits. There is no cure for Dravet, but some medications are effective in controlling seizures….In many cases Dravet emerges when a baby runs a fever, which can occur after receiving an immunization. But, notes Wirrell, chief of pediatric epilepsy at Mayo, “it’s absolutely not the immunization causing Dravet” but rather the fever that causes the existing disorder to surface”. Wirrell, who has seen 20 children with Dravet, said that those who have never been immunized show symptoms after spiking a fever.

I offer this case for discussion because it highlights the complexities of defining various post-vaccination conditions as adverse reactions.  This story illustrates how easy it is for parents, and even doctors, to mistakenly believe a causal relationship between two events.  However, as science has revealed more about Dravet syndrome, it’s clear to see that it has also provided a more comprehensive understanding of how what may first appear as a adverse reaction to a vaccine is simply part of a child’s genetic makeup.  For instance, The Washington Post article refers to a 2010 study in Lancet Neurology which found that the vaccine did not affect the outcome of Dravet and illustrated that babies whose seizures began after the shot fared no worse than those whose illness surfaced at another time. Additionally, a 2011 report in the journal Pediatrics found that five children presumed to have neurological damage caused by the shot were later discovered to have Dravet.

Certainly, the Cossolotto family had reason to suspect that their child’s condition was brought on by the vaccine. However, we are fortunate to now have the scientific evidence that identifies Michaela Cossolotto’s condition as one of genetic origin.

The belated discovery of what was wrong with her daughter would upend Cossolotto’s long-held views and lead to major improvements in Michaela’s life…As a result of the diagnosis and proper medication, Michaela’s life has dramatically improved. Although she still grapples with cognitive and behavioral problems, her seizures have dwindled to only a handful annually…Without a diagnosis, Cossolotto said, she would probably still believe — erroneously — that the DPT shot caused Michaela’s illness.

It’s true that people who respect the science behind immunizations are sometimes suspect of parents who claim their child is vaccine injured.  However, this doesn’t mean they are questioning a parents’ integrity.  Certainly parents who make claims about adverse reactions believe them to be true.  However, if a reaction is suspected, immunization advocates will suggest that the incident  be fully examined and supported by scientific and medical evidence.   This may be the only way to know whether the reaction was brought on by a patient who had been dancing on a tabletop or who had an undiscovered genetic disorder.

Vaccine safety is certainly not a forum for speculation.  When it comes to investigating vaccine adverse events, we must continue to test new theories, while also accepting the evidence from those already tested.  After all, as Laura Cossolotto states, “Having an answer does make a difference.”

  1. Julie Leask
    February 8, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Great blog. Thank you for highlighting this important area of vaccine safety and establishing causality.

    Like

  2. February 8, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    Sensitive and educational account of a crucial piece of the vaccine safety puzzle. Nice one.

    Like

  3. Clara Goodman
    February 8, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    Denial, bias, and misleading. Shame on you for perpetuating lies. All of the vaccine inserts state seizures as a possible side effect of the vaccine. Shame on you. Your day in the “true court” will come.

    Like

  4. Clara Goodman
    February 8, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    And babies dont dance on tables. They don’t engage in other behaviors that can be misconstrued as a vaccine reaction. They lie there and take all the toxic poison that we dutifully have injected into them. And then we listen as our doctors tell us that our beautiful, healthy, NORMAL baby has brain damage, but rest assured it’s not the vaccines. Only in this messed up world can you get away with such an obvious cover-up of the systematic poisoning of children. Try it in the next world. Hope you like hot weather.

    Like

  5. Chris
    February 8, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    Can you please tell us the rate of seizures for vaccines versus the diseases? As an example, please show us seizures are more often causes by the Hib than by the meningitis caused by haemophilus influenzae type b. Just post the title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed study with that data. Thank you.

    Like

  6. Clara Goodman
    February 8, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    No,Chris. I can’t and I wont. Can you tell me the rate of autism? Can you explain the 600% increase??? Better diagnosis? Don’t think so…..Having to choose a disease vs. a vaccine reaction that is permanent is like choosing which of your children you would want to lose. The article asserts that seizures are not from the vaccines? But your question is probing the suggestion that it is better that some kids suffer seizures and other COMMON reactions, than to take the chance of getting the vaccine. Please wake up. Children are not sheep. They are precious and have rights. They have a right to a vaccine schedule that is appropriate for each of them on an individual basis. Clearly, the current schedule is not working. But if you say it’s better diagnosis, which is bull, then you see no problem with the status quo….

    Like

  7. Chris
    February 8, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    So you refuse to answer the question. Please do not change the subject from seizures to autism.

    Actually the article did not say “seizures are not from the vaccines” for every seizure, it was about one particular child who turned out to have Dravet syndrome. Please read the article again, and pay close attention to what is being said.

    I personally know that seizures happen, and they are frightening. My son had a series of neo-natal convulsions when he was two days old (before the birth HepB vaccine was used), and then a major seizure when he was a toddler while very sick with a now vaccine preventable disease. ‘

    Vaccines are not the only cause of seizures. The diseases also cause seizures, and to forget that is even more dangerous. This is why I need you to tell me the relative seizure risk between the diseases and the vaccines.

    Okay, you have refused to answer how many seizures are caused by the Hib vaccine, especially compared to the disease that twenty years ago was the most common cause of neurological damage to young children. Perhaps you would prefer to tell us what the risk of seizure is from the MMR vaccine versus getting measles. Please post the appropriate scientific evidence to tell us those risks.

    Here are a couple of examples:

    Impact of Vaccines Universally Recommended for Children—United States, 1900-1998:

    Before the first vaccine was licensed, an estimated 20,000 cases of Hib invasive disease occurred each year, and Hib was the leading cause of childhood bacterial meningitis and postnatal mental retardation.

    and

    The Clinical Significance of Measles: A Review:

    Postinfectious encephalomyelitis (PIE) occurs in 13 per 1000 infected persons, usually 3–10 days after onset of rash [39, 131]. ….snip…As many as 25% of people with PIE due to measles die, and ∼33% of survivors have lifelong neurological sequelae, including severe retardation, motor impairment, blindness, and sometimes hemiparesis [39, 131].

    Now, all you have to do is show that vaccines cause problems in more often than measles.

    Like

  8. Chris
    February 8, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    My apologies, I am trying to do more than one thing at once… the last sentence should read:

    Now, all you have to do is show that vaccines cause problems more often than measles.

    Measles being a disease that is coming back to the USA. It will be interesting to see how people these two teenagers infected in Indiana. Hopefully no one will be seriously hurt.

    Like

  9. Clara Goodman
    February 8, 2012 at 10:03 pm

    Yes, clearly vaccines are implicated in seizures, autism, SIDS, ADD, ADHD, childhood asthma, juvenile (type 1) diabetes, food allergies, eczema, colic, speech delay, dyslexia…the list goes on and on. It is 2012, why do we have to choose one epidemic over another. People arent dying from VPD’s. Measles was very common years ago. With proper medical care, that we have here in the US, these diseases are easily treatable. You cannot compare India to the US. We have much better abilities to deal with illness here. I will take chicken pox for my kids over autism anyday. One requires a week or so home from school and resting in bed, and another robs a child of their speech, socialization, essentially, they lose skills they had. I think I will take chicken pox. When it is reported that a child dies of a VPD, it is never noted that that child had some underlying issues that exacerbated the issue. It isn’t black and white. If you watched a child regress into autism, you would understand that vaccines are not 100% safe, without question. You asked me not to change the subject to autism, but seizures are only a small part of vaccine reactions. The MMR poses many risks, aside from seizures. I know MANY children who have bowel disorder from that vaccine. We need to take a look at why we have so many sick children in 2012, and those are the fully vaccinated ones. Sorry, but you need to see reality to understand what is really going on.

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  10. Chris
    February 8, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    Your refusal to answer my question is duly noted.

    And when you say “, it is never noted that that child had some underlying issues that exacerbated the issue.”… thanks for telling me my child is imperfect because he had seizures from an actual disease.

    And yes, he is disabled. So in the future I expect a actual evidence from you.

    Like

  11. Clara Goodman
    February 8, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    Having an underlying issue does not equal imperfection, that is your own perception. It only means that vaccines do NOT deserve the credit they are given for anything. They are a medical procedure and need to be dispensed with great caution and discretion.

    Like

  12. Chris
    February 8, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    You are refusing to answer my question. How about this one: Can seizures be caused by things other than vaccines?

    When you say a child died from a disease because they had some other condition, you are saying that they do not deserve to live and are ignoring the rates of disabilities from the diseases. Is my child less important because he was injured from an actual disease?

    Yes, vaccines are a medical procedure. And if you had actually read the article above you would have realized how serious they take the testing of vaccines when they even investigated a fall of a vaccine test subject.

    What do you mean that vaccines do not deserve the credit they are given? Are you denying that the Hib vaccine prevented thousands of cases of meningitis? Are you denying that the measles vaccine has prevented hundreds of deaths per year? Are you denying that the MMR vaccine prevented thousands of cases of congenital rubella syndrome, an actual known cause of autism? Did you even read the article I linked to on the effects vaccines in the USA between1900 and 1998?

    Like

  13. Kelly
    February 9, 2012 at 12:29 am

    Clara, can you provide the citations for the scientific papers that support your claim that vaccines cause all those things or did you just make it up?

    Like

  14. Nathan
    February 9, 2012 at 12:41 am

    And babies dont dance on tables. They don’t engage in other behaviors that can be misconstrued as a vaccine reaction.

    Yes, they do (not tables, the other thing). And Chris has graciously provided evidence of this with her own family. Chris, I hope you don’t mind me demonstrating with what you wrote below:

    My son had a series of neo-natal convulsions when he was two days old (before the birth HepB vaccine was used), and then a major seizure when he was a toddler while very sick with a now vaccine preventable disease.

    Chris’s child had a seizure at two days old, and had no birth dose of hepatitis B vaccine. A seizure is something that can be misconstrued as a vaccine reaction. Had Chris’s child been born at a time when the baby would have gotten the hepatitis B vaccine, it likely would have been misconstrued as a vaccine reaction. And it certainly would have been if it had been your child, Clara, don’t you think?

    BTW, Chris, we don’t chat together much, but I greatly appreciate all your efforts to dispel vaccine misconceptions around the web.

    Like

  15. Nathan
    February 9, 2012 at 12:42 am

    Can you tell me the rate of autism? Can you explain the 600% increase??? Better diagnosis? Don’t think so…

    If you dismiss the massive paradigm shifts in autism diagnosis so easily, it is unlikely that you have read the research in this area.

    Like

  16. Chris
    February 9, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    No problem, Nathan. And thank you very much.

    Like

  17. Clara Goodman
    February 9, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Kelly, unfortunately, science and research in our times, is driven by the pharmaceutical companies that wish to assure the public how their drug/vaccine is so necessary and safe. Therefore, all of the research that is put out there for the public is biased…Sorry, the truth is hidden.
    \

    Like

  18. Kelly
    February 9, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Oh, so everything in this statement “clearly vaccines are implicated in seizures, autism, SIDS, ADD, ADHD, childhood asthma, juvenile (type 1) diabetes, food allergies, eczema, colic, speech delay, dyslexia…” is only clear in your imagination?

    That’s good to know. Thanks for clarifying Clara. Your claim to supposed vaccine injuries is based on an imaginary conspiracy theory and not anything real. It makes me laugh though, because you claim that the “truth” is clear to you but hidden from everyone else. You do know that makes you look like a delusional whacko, right?

    Like

  19. Chris
    February 9, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Ms. Goodman, if it is all driven by the pharmaceutical companies, then that must mean that vaccines are more profitable than treating the diseases. Please tell us how it is more cost effective to treat measles for the one to three out of a thousand cases that require hospitalization than to pay for two MMR doses. Provide references.

    Show us that the paper I posted on the impact of vaccines between 1900 and 1998 is wrong when it says:

    In 1994, every dollar spent to purchase measles-containing vaccine saved $10.30 in direct medical costs and $3.20 in indirect societal costs.

    Along with the paper on the clinical significance of measles, here is a paper outlining the cost to the state of California during the measles epidemic of about twenty years ago that killed over 120 Americans: Pediatric hospital admissions for measles. Lessons from the 1990 epidemic.

    Like

  20. February 9, 2012 at 4:47 pm

    “People arent dying from VPD’s.”

    For one thing, people are indeed dying from vaccine preventable diseases in the United States. 10 infants died of pertussis in 2010 in California.

    The main reason that more people don’t die from vaccine preventable diseases is that the vast majority of people are vaccinated. If more people listen to anti-vaxers and rates drop, then we will have more disease and more deaths. Go visit the pediatric ICU in a Children’s Hospital and ask them how often all of their skills and technology can save a child with meningococcal disease.

    And you don’t even have to speculate about this very much or look at India. Just look at what has happened in Europe this past year. About 30,000 cases of measles, 26 cases of measles encephalitis, and 8 deaths.

    People are dying from VPDs.

    Like

  21. Clara Goodman
    February 9, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    They are more profitable, just ask your hero, Dr, Proffit, I mean Offit. That man is the devil in disguise, and he will be accountable for all the damage his vaccine has caused to children. C’mon, a vaccine for diarrhea? This isn;t a third world country, our children are not going to die from diarrhea. BTW, I know many children who got pertussis and were vaccinated for it in the weeks before. I am not saying all vaccines are bad. It isnt black and white. We can no longer ignore the harm that the OVER AGGRESSIVE schedule is doing to some children. No, not ever seizure is attributed to vaccines, but many are and could have been prevented. We need to come up with a better, safer schedule. Vaccinating a baby at 12 hrs old for an STD, when their mother clearly isnt hepb positive is a cruel sin. I’m, sorry, we can do without that one and chicken pox. The flu shot has no eficacy whatsoever. Vitamin D is the best immune booster their is. I know you will disagree because in the world we live in everyone wants that magic bullet, shot or pill, to prevent a disease. But it doesnt come without risks. And with the number of chronically ill children out there, we see that those risks are not rare at all.

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  22. Chris
    February 9, 2012 at 7:21 pm

    Why do you think insulting people is a valid form of evidence? I am trying my best to treat you with respect, but you are making it very difficult. Even though I know that my actions here will be labeled as being a “total meanie.”

    Why do you really think that treating children for illness is more cost effective than preventing them. I just wrote my first check to pay for my son’s two days at the hospital a little over a month ago. The total costs are now at over $20000 dollars, fortunately most of it is covered by insurance.

    By the way, it was more than a week of diarrhea that caused my son’s dehydration that precipitated his seizures which involved an ambulance trip to the hospital. It is not a trivial matter. And even with insurance it we still wrote some significant checks to the hospital, doctors, and ambulance company.

    No, not ever seizure is attributed to vaccines, but many are and could have been prevented.

    What does that mean? You were asked for the relative risk, which you have refused to answer.

    So, I will give you another chance to show you can discuss these issues honestly, sticking to just one disease:

    Please tell us what the relative risk for seizures are between the Hib vaccine and haemophilus influenzae type b.

    Please tell us how treating haemophilus influenzae type b in the hospital is cheaper than vaccinating a child with four does of Hib, which would total about a hundred dollars.

    To show you what I mean, please watch this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/PKIDsOrg#p/u/32/iy9iywzE0z0

    Like

  23. Clara Goodman
    February 9, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    I am done with this discussion. Let me just say that what you paid for you sons one time hospital visit is what I pay per month to try and recover my son from vaccine injury. Loads of luck, and be careful, for your child’s sake.

    Like

  24. Chris
    February 9, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    I am terribly sorry. Though I am afraid that the veracity of your statements will be weighed by the tone and honesty of your previous statements.

    Like

  25. Lara
    February 10, 2012 at 12:02 am

    My goodness! What a debate. Well, actually more like a slaughter 🙂 I would like to take this opportunity to share my professional medical opinion and state that there is a correlation between vaccine use and the trends of disease. The correlation is statistically measurable and found in numerous, peer reviewed journals. The use of vaccines is directly proportionate to the amount of disease. The more vaccines used in any given population, the less VPD disease(s) found!

    I think we can just agree that it’s ok if Clara is against vaccines, since after all, in a roundabout way, her children and self are protected through HERD immunity. Your welcome Clara, our vaccine use will protect you and your family!!

    On a side note, great articles Chris! A scholarly approach to a debate is refreshing, even if the defendant doesn’t “follow the rules” or ever answer your questions!

    Like

  26. Chris
    February 10, 2012 at 1:25 am

    Thank you very much.

    I remember saying when I first found out that I was pregnant was that I did not want an “interesting” baby. Unfortunately my wish was ignored. And now my son has to decide if he wants to go through open heart surgery. Which is a weird way to encourage folks to read one of the following articles here:
    https://shotofprevention.com/2012/02/09/the-health-of-one-small-child-in-the-hands-of-one-big-world/

    Like

  27. Clara Goodman
    February 10, 2012 at 7:50 am

    Lara, Your professional opinion is causing harm to many many children in the world. My children arent protected from anything. My son had all his vaxes, and with each one he lost more and more of his speech, which is totally gone now. Sure, he is protected from chicken pox (actually that vaccine seldom even works), well he got all of his vaccines, but he is still very very sick. He has gut and brain inflammation, heavy metals in his body, no beneficial bacteria in his gut from all the antibiotics he was given in response to vaccine induced ear infections and other bacterial infections.. Yes, he got all of his vaccines, but he is hardly protected. How dare you assert that he is better off because of this. If you are a pediatrician, then the next time you vaccinate, please consider that you are possibly poisoning a child for life. You aren’t protecting them if their immune system is on overload and cannot handle the vaccine. If someone tells you their kid cant have eggs and you give them an egg salad sandwich, then they get very very sick, yes, you can say there is no correlation between what you gave them and what happened, but if they never got the egg, they would be fine. The same is true here. Please think about that when you are pushing your harmful drugs and shots on innocent children..It’s not for everyone, And you think it is, you are wrong and the system is wrong, that is why our kids of this generation are so sick. Make excuses so you can sleep at night. There will be a day when your eyes will be opened to what is going on.

    Like

  28. Kelly
    February 10, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Oh my Clara…more unsupported claims and a whole whack of misinformation. I thought you were done with this discussion.

    How dare you assert that vaccinations are dangerous when you quite clearly made it all up.

    Vaccines don’t overload the immune system or contain poisons, you silly goose.

    If the child is allergic to eggs and has an allergic reaction after eating an egg salad sandwich than you can say that sandwich caused the reaction. Where you are confusing the situation is that your saying your son has all these problems from the vaccines, but vaccines don’t cause these problems. That’s where your logic fails.

    I know it makes you sleep better at night Clara to blame vaccines for all your problems, but sadly, you are wrong. I also think you shouldn’t be one to lecture on hurting children, considering you think children dying from rotovirus infections is a good thing and someone trying to prevent these deaths is “the devil in disguise”. I personally hope that your wish for humanity does not come true and we see more kids sick or killed by preventable diseases because their parents were misinformed.

    Like

  29. Lara
    February 11, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    My first instinct was to reply with all of the academic research I have to back my opinion, but then I reconsidered because it appears that all the research in the world will not help Clara make more educated comments.

    Sadly it is the opinion of a few people like Clara that can lead to others not being vaccinated, but I think the most important thing is to continue to educate those who are misled in their information. Or in Clara’s case, those who appear to have not taken the time to critically evaluate the information.

    Clara I am sorry for your family’s medical issues and I think that sometimes we need to find something to “blame” them on. In that sense, I can see why you are so passionate about your opinion. It is unfortunate that we cannot visually see how a child battles disease after they are immunized. Perhaps if there was a way for parents to see the moment when a child’s immune system became targeted, with say Chickenpox, and then watch the child’s immune system fight it off, then we would have fewer non-believers. On a side note, Chickenpox continues to be a deadly disease and it is in fact mutating as we speak targeting the gastrointestinal systems of humans leading to respiratory distress and even death. Imagine Chickenpox taking over your child’s airway and digestive system like some parents are now recognizing due to non-vaccination-how disturbing is that! While you say this vaccine “seldom even works” I have to academically disagree. If we stop protecting our children from this one disease by limiting the uptake of vaccine use, we will in turn generate a more serious representation of this disease causing horrifying presentations in children and adults alike.

    On the plus side everyone, thankfully there are still more people in the world who understand the benefits of vaccination. Otherwise, we would be in some serious trouble. This debate has represented the exact struggles that professionals face worldwide but I encourage those of you who use your academic research to substantiate your opinion to continue do so. Negating research is a dangerous thing, but if you are critical in your evaluations you are left with solid evidence to make informed decisions, and have educated debates!

    Like

  30. Clara Goodman
    February 11, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    We ARE in serious trouble, you fools. Our children are sicker than ever. Scare tactics is a great method to use, but fortunately people know better. Chickenpox is not deadly. Neither is the flu, neither is Hep B, for a newborn whose mother does not have it. What’s next? A vaccine for the common cold. Probably in the works now, why not, there is so much money to be made from you goons who can;t wait to inject all this crap in your kids, so they dont have to sneeze ever. Best of luck, morons.

    Like

  31. Kelly
    February 11, 2012 at 10:37 pm

    Our children are sicker than ever.

    Citation needed. Please highlight the part that shows that this is caused by vaccines.

    Scare tactics is a great method to use, but fortunately people know better.

    If you know that people know you are using scare tactics, Clara, why do you keep using them. Or perhaps you don’t think saying things like “our children are sicker than ever” and making up a list of fake vaccine injuries is a scare tactic?

    Chickenpox is not deadly.

    I bet these parents would beg to differ with you Clara. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19030311

    There are stories on this blog of children that died from influenza. Perhaps you should read those too, Clara.

    Finally, here are several case reports of newborns infected with HBV because the mother was thought not to have it (see medical error #2, #3 and #4). hhttp://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2062.pdf

    As for name-calling, have you heard the saying “people living in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”?

    Like

  32. Chris
    February 12, 2012 at 12:29 am

    Probably in the works now, why not, there is so much money to be made from you goons who can;t wait to inject all this crap in your kids, so they dont have to sneeze ever. Best of luck, morons.

    I have asked you for the data on how treating haemophilus influenzae type b is more cost effective than spending the $100 for four doses of Hib vaccine. But you refused to answer. I think it would be more helpful if you actually provided some evidence for your statements.

    Instead you have just responded by insulting us and calling us names. Why do you think insults are a valid as evidence, and even useful in a discussion?

    Like

  33. February 12, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    As thunderously incorrect and off topic as the anti-vaccine comments are we should always appreciate what they mean about our own quality of life.

    Set free from the horror of vaccine preventable disease, dying or maimed children, suddenly silent homes and having our entire cities and communities ravaged by epidemics we can now *choose* what to care about. How our forebears would have laughed at the description of such health luxury that medical science has given us. So complete, so powerful has the success of vaccines been that in tandem with freedom of choice and democratic liberty people now indulge in fantasy, such that it becomes to many, their reality.

    In noting these comments, I realise that I am not just free, but free to be stupid. Even free to risk the life of my offspring simply by choice. To risk a child’s health say, to measles exposing them to 1,000 times the risk of encephalitis than via vaccination. To leave them forever a prospect to be struck down with SSPE, often as they finish school or university or begin adult life. They will die from SSPE, and having seen what it does I will consider death a mercy. I can risk their sight, hearing, neurological development whilst at the same time I can abuse those parents who choose the safest route for their child and for society.

    I can infect my child with varicella. A 0.41 in a million death rate is a gamble I can take. “Place your bets ladies and gentlemen”, the croupier would call and the wheel would spin.

    Necrotizing Fascilitis is better known as “flesh-eating disease”. You can catch it from serious skin wounds, weakened immunity (such as associated with vaccine preventable diseases) yet also following varicella. Varicella pneumonia can occur and varicella encephalitis – although rare – can occur following infection. Any deterioration in patient health requires monitoring for neurological or super bacterial infection.

    Super Bacterial Infection?! Get outta here! “I say banker – more chips”.

    Then it lays dormant until again, it may emerge as shingles, encephalitis and potentially lead to stroke, disability or death.

    Of course… I can cheat. My gamble will not pay off entirely but in losing, another innocent person shall pay. You see no doctors will know I exposed and infected my child. No records will be kept. My kid stands good odds of recovering. Yet better odds of spreading it to others, who spread it to others and then others exponentially expanding every hour. Some immunocompromised, some who will die, none of whom *chose* to be exposed.

    Did they have rights? Who cares baby, I’m a gamblin’ game star. I am free to risk the life of my own child and the lives of hundreds – perhaps thousands of others – all for a gamble. Ha! Take that Vegas!

    “Banker! More chips”.

    I am free to be so stupid I can endanger my children and insult those who provide the cocoon of immunity that will protect my child from my own stupidity! Surely this is unprecedented. How would I explain this to my grandmother who buried her only son, and her farms future, in the rock hard earth of Victoria’s Mallee region? She never spoke of it again.

    What would I say to the great Aussie poet Henry Lawson who wrote, as measles killed children, in 1880:

    Our first child took—a cruel week in dyin’, …
    I’ve pulled three through and buried two
    Since then—and I’m past carin’.

    Would he have believed a time would come when he could *choose* what to care about? When shouldering the burden of burying two children would be replaced by screaming hysteria over fevers or sore reddened arms. Childhood mortality is today one twentieth than during that time. And now many seek to revive that figure. It’s “the price we must pay” says an Aussie PhD student.

    What would they say?

    Free to be stupid or free to be mad? Either way, we’re free.

    Like

  34. Lawrence
    February 13, 2012 at 6:52 am

    You may not be as free to be stupid as you’d like to believe. It is a choice to get behind the wheel of a car while drunk – but you are putting everyone else at risk when you do so (and if you are caught, you are punished for it).

    When you choose not to vaccinate your kids, you aren’t necessarily taking as big of a gamble, since the vast majority of people still do vaccinate & the chances of catching anything are pretty slight – but it seems to me that these same parents seem to enjoy taking their kids to other countries where vaccination rates aren’t as high (like Switzerland, for example) and then get shocked when they come back with measles & cause a local outbreak (San Diego a few years ago is a good example).

    I’m also waiting to see what happens with the whole “measles at the Superbowl” thing pans out, since it sounds like several individuals were actually infected there.

    And, of course, once the anti-vaxers start throwing around the “money” issue – they are surprisingly silent when asked if it is more profitable to treat the diseases (doctors’ visits, prescriptions, hospital stays, emergency room visits, etc) than to vaccinate. I know, for example, that my last childs’ visit to the ER would have cost upwards of $2000.00 just for the tests and time – as opposed to what, a few dollars for a vaccine?

    Given parents’ propensity to freak out and bring junior to the doctor or ER (if they have no insurance) when he / she has the littlest fever or cold, imagine the stampede that would occur should there be regular outbreaks of preventable diseases. How could this possibly be less profitable?

    Lastly – while the anti-vaxers are happy to proscribe the profit motive to their opponents, they never seem to turn that same sceptical eye towards their own – including the Geiers who profited from shame autism treatments, including chemical castration and industrial chelation, or Wakefield who was paid by trial lawyers in the UK to find cause for their lawsuits against Pharma companies.

    I will admit, if these vaccine preventable diseases did return in force, the overall mortality rate would be lower than historical averages. Our doctors and hospitals have gotten much better at keeping people alive over the years, but it still does not prevent the various other nasty, known side-effects of these diseases – like blindness, sterility, and hearing loss (not to mention enchephalits).

    Interestingly enough, schools for the deaf (like Gallaudet University, for example) have seen a severe drop in enrollment over the last few decades, primarily because kids were no longer being stricken with the childhood diseases that most resulted in deafness as a side-effect.

    We have had the good fortune to not have grown up in the shadow of these standard cabal of childhood illnesses, and I would dare any of the anti-vaccine crowd to visit those countries still in the throes of these diseases – where there isn’t adequate healthcare or nutrition, and see what these horrible illnesses are still capable of.

    Sorry for the long post, pretty well motivated to combat stupidity this morning.

    Like

  35. Chris
    February 13, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Lawrence:

    And, of course, once the anti-vaxers start throwing around the “money” issue – they are surprisingly silent when asked if it is more profitable to treat the diseases (doctors’ visits, prescriptions, hospital stays, emergency room visits, etc) than to vaccinate.

    But, but, but… Ms. Goodman says she is paying at least $20000 per month on treating her autistic child. Personally, I would love to have an income that could support that expense.

    But since I have dealt with the expenses of a disabled child that including intensive neurodevelopmental therapy (up to $150/week), some hospitalizations, specialized classes, seeing specialists like a pediatric neurologist, I know the expenses cannot be that much per year!, Unless it is for a DAN! doctor. Like the very expensive, invasive and ineffective treatment from Bradstreet.

    Like

  36. Adam
    March 1, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    Vincent Iannelli, MD :
    “People arent dying from VPD’s.”
    For one thing, people are indeed dying from vaccine preventable diseases in the United States. 10 infants died of pertussis in 2010 in California.
    The main reason that more people don’t die from vaccine preventable diseases is that the vast majority of people are vaccinated. If more people listen to anti-vaxers and rates drop, then we will have more disease and more deaths. Go visit the pediatric ICU in a Children’s Hospital and ask them how often all of their skills and technology can save a child with meningococcal disease.
    And you don’t even have to speculate about this very much or look at India. Just look at what has happened in Europe this past year. About 30,000 cases of measles, 26 cases of measles encephalitis, and 8 deaths.
    People are dying from VPDs.

    Can you explain how pertussis is prevented by vaccination? I was under the impression that the vaccine merely tried to make the symptoms less severe but doesn’t prevent carrying the disease or transmitting it and doesn’t provide protection against B.parapertussis strains at all.

    Like

  37. Chris
    March 1, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    Read this:
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/pert.pdf

    One way to prevent pertussis is to increase herd immunity by encouraging teenagers and adults to get a Tdap vaccination.

    Plus parapertussis is not actual pertussis, and is much less severe. Even getting and recovering from pertussis will not make you immune to parapertussis. It is much like expecting a measles vaccine or infection to protect yourself from fifth disease, it is not going to happen.

    Like

  38. Cassandra
    January 16, 2013 at 11:44 pm

    How about people vaccinate their children safely, using the one vaccine every 6 weeks IF the child shows no symptoms or health problems(ie. a cold or fever or any sort of illness, not necessarily something as serious as a seizure) until all vaccines have been given. This is the recommended manner of doing so seeing as giving all of the vaccines at once is so horrible to do to anyone’s immune system, not just a small child’s. I think most can agree that overloading anybody’s system with that many vaccines at once does not sound like a wise move. It takes the body 6 weeks to develop full immunity to something but if it’s trying to fend off multiple viruses/vaccine-viruses, it often fails and genes can mutate leading to things such as autism and epilepsy.
    For instance, my mother had myself and two sisters vaccinated one every 6 consecutive healthy weeks until all were delivered. Each one of us was fine. Then came her last child, my youngest sister. The same process was executed up until the start of school. She needed just two more vaccines but the school would not allow her to come unless she had them. With both parents working and nowhere for her to go during the day otherwise, my mother gave in and let my sister get those last two vaccines at once. 27 hours later she had her first of countless seizures. My family has a history of bad reactions to vaccines but none quite this severe. For somebody to say that her seizures have no correlation with those 2 vaccines being given at once though? That’s an insult to the years of tests, surgeries, scans, poking, and prodding done to my sister. Every medicine she has had to take that wears off a few months later. All of the side effects those medicines cause. To say that her seizures and epilepsy was just a mere coincidence is offensive and incorrect.
    All in all, vaccines can do good, yes, if given in a safe way with knowledge of what is being done. Yes I think vaccines should be given but certainly not all at once, ever. One at a time is always the best thing to do especially if you have any history of bad reactions to them.

    Like

  39. Lara Lohne
    January 17, 2013 at 12:09 am

    I am so tired of this ‘vaccines cause autism’ crap! Can someone else take this one please? That whole n=1 thing maybe? I don’t know.I can’t do anymore today though, it’s too irritating and I need to spend time with my son.

    Like

  40. Chris
    January 17, 2013 at 12:45 am

    Actually, I have others things to do now, but I will say this:

    Cassandra, citation needed for your six week plan.

    My son had seizures from a now vaccine preventable disease. The vaccine did not come out for a few years later. So the reason that there are more vaccines is that there was research on ways to prevent other diseases. Some are just more difficult to develop than others.

    Also, if we did you six week plan a kid could get one of the many diseases we vaccinate for that cause encephalitis, meningitis and actual seizures.

    In the future when you post a comment on an almost year old article, please provide some actual data instead of one anecdote (and please embrace the concept known as “paragraphs”). I don’t expect you to believe my anecdote, so I present these citations:

    Vaccine. 2012 Jan 5;30(2):247-53.
    Lack of association between childhood immunizations and encephalitis in California, 1998-2008.

    Pediatrics Vol. 126 No. 2 August 1, 2010 (doi: 10.1542/peds.2009-1496)
    Lack of Association Between Acellular Pertussis Vaccine and Seizures in Early Childhood

    Pediatrics. 2010 Jun;125(6):1134-41.
    On-time vaccine receipt in the first year does not adversely affect neuropsychological outcomes.

    Like

  41. Nathan
    January 17, 2013 at 1:02 am

    Lara, I think you can pretty much sum up the response with a simple [citation needed].

    Like

  42. lisa king
    October 18, 2013 at 3:34 am

    I realize I am way late to this party but gosh, thank you so much Chris for posting solid information based on actual science and research. Do you do this on a regular basis. Is there a blog or a facebook page dedicated to this that you can direct me to. I live in southern California. I am surrounded by anti-vaxer naturalists that make me nuts. I often argue directly with Jay Gordon (I refuse to call him a doctor). I would love to have access to all of these citations when I do that.

    Like

  43. Ted Kuntz
    March 17, 2014 at 11:25 pm

    I’d be interested in knowing how many children develop Dravet’s who have not been vaccinated. To me that is the real test of whether the vaccine contributed to the condition or not.

    Like

  44. Lawrence
    March 18, 2014 at 8:30 am

    @Ted – since there is no indication that vaccines have anything to do with this, it really wouldn’t matter what the child’s vaccination status is.

    Like

  45. JGC56
    March 18, 2014 at 10:01 am

    Ted, one doesn’t ‘develop’ Dravet’s syndrome: its origin is genetic. Mutations of the SCN1A gene cause 79% of all cases, while mutations in SCN2A, GABRG2, and PCDH19 may also cause Dravet’s and other epilepsies. A child will in your words have already ‘developed’ Dravet’s at birth, regardless of whether or not they are vaccinated afterward.

    Like

  46. Sylvia
    March 18, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    The DTaP vaccine insert lists “seizures” as a possible side effect. It is also contraindicated in infants with “uncontrolled or progressive seizures/epilepsy”.

    Like

  47. Lawrence
    March 18, 2014 at 1:43 pm

    @Sylvia – operative word being “possible.”

    Like

  48. JGC56
    March 18, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    Which brand of the DTaP vaccine’s package insert identifies seizures as a possible side effect? I’m surprised it hasn’t been changed to reflect the fact that post-licensing studies have demonstrated this isn’t the case (see Huang W-T et al. Lack of association between acellular pertussis vaccine and seizures in early childhood. Pediatrics 2010 Aug; 126:263)

    Perhaps you’re thinking of the previous DTP vaccine?

    Like

  49. Narad
    March 19, 2014 at 12:46 am

    JGC56 :
    Which brand of the DTaP vaccine’s package insert identifies seizures as a possible side effect?

    None. The reference is to the VIS, the wording of which is deliberately unsophisticated. The inserts, which separate (although not as clearly as the old format) reactions and events, are here.

    Like

  50. Narad
    March 19, 2014 at 12:49 am

    Ah, the two links are in that. I’ve got a bad feeling about this virgule key.

    Like

  51. Victor Cruz
    March 29, 2014 at 1:01 am

    Wow. What an incredibly low level thinking, manipulative article. Really? Really? You give us the example of a lady dancing on a bar table and falling? But leave out the details, and then try to tie this into why we shouldn’t be asking if vaccines cause seizures????? What does a grown woman dancing on a bar table, who fell, during a vaccine study, have anything to do with a child who gets a vaccine and within a few days, develops seizures? Here, let me answer it for you: NOTHING. An infant was injured by the neurotoxins in vaccines, that’s why they got seizures. Have U never heard of the vaccine vials that are “overfilled” that are filled with more toxins than the human brain can handle? Nice try downplaying the vaccine epilepsy connection pal. And if you have some property on Mars, I’d be interested in hearing about it.

    Like

  52. Narad
    March 29, 2014 at 2:20 am

    Victor Cruz :
    What does a grown woman dancing on a bar table, who fell, during a vaccine study, have anything to do with a child who gets a vaccine and within a few days, develops seizures?

    “While most people would laugh at such a ridiculous suggestion, it exemplifies the strict guidelines of medical observation and investigation required during a study of vaccine safety.”

    And if you have some property on Mars, I’d be interested in hearing about it.

    Are you looking to move closer, or farther away?

    Like

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