Home > Expert Insights, In the News, Science & Research > It’s Not Cool For Kids to Skip Shots, But Go to School

It’s Not Cool For Kids to Skip Shots, But Go to School

After an Associated Press analysis was published yesterday, it didn’t take long for the message to spread like a cold in a daycare.  Although it was information that was spreading, rather than illness, many public health officials acknowledged that it may eventually be new outbreaks of diseases.  What’s particularly disturbing is that it could possibly mean the return of diseases which have been all but eliminated here in the U.S.

Sadly, the report indicated that a rising number of parents, in half the states in the U.S., are now opting out of school shots for their kids.  While the report lacked details regarding how many immunizations were being declined and which ones, the concerning data was that one in twenty public school kindergartners, in as many as eight states, are not getting all the vaccines required for school attendance.

This may come as a shock for many parents, since as many as ninety percent follow the recommended vaccination schedule for their children and adhere to their state’s school immunization requirements.  For many people, the idea of not vaccinating their children has never crossed their mind.  Many parents who vaccinate probably assume that everyone else is vaccinated as well.  But thanks to this recent AP analysis, and last night’s episode of NBC’s Nightly News, parents may begin to understand the concerns tied to this dangerous trend.  After all, it’s time we acknowledge that some parents are making decisions for their children that may have a direct impact on others.

As Brian Williams explains on last night’s episode of NBC’s Nightly News,

“We have vaccines, of course, for a reason.  The alternative can be disease and in some cases epidemics.  That’s why it’s called public health and so the choices of a few can affect a lot of people who have followed the rules.”

Dr. Nancy Snyderman, NBC’s News Chief Medical Editor, followed up by addressing some of the growing concerns to our public health.

The coverage began with Lisa Morris, a mother and practicing chiropractor from Buffalo who has refused all vaccines for her three children.  Ms. Morris says she doesn’t agree with “the thought that the more vaccines the better…the more the healthier.”  Although she readily admits, “I really don’t know if that’s true,” she appears quite confident that her decision to forego vaccinations for her children is the best one.

Meanwhile, commentary from experts like Dr. William Shaffner, the president of the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases, supports the fact that parents are often unfamiliar with the diseases we are trying to prevent and can easily be confused and misinformed.  He states that

“there is a moral and ethical responsibility of getting vaccinated, for ourselves, as well as for our children and our grandchildren.”

While I couldn’t agree more, many people just don’t see an unvaccinated child as a threat to a vaccinated child.  Which is why I was pleased to hear Dr. Snyderman conclude her segment with a brief explanation of community immunity – the concept that in a highly immunized population, that there is a threshold that provides protection to everyone – even those who are not vaccinated.   She explains that a growing number of unvaccinated people in a population can negatively impact the threshold and endanger even those who are vaccinated.   She reminds us that as the number of vaccinated people continues to fall,  “than the grandmother who is on chemotherapy, or the aunt who has rheumatoid arthritis” may be in danger and a four year old child could ultimately be responsible for their “death sentence”.  We must also realize that the infants in our community, who are too young to be vaccinated, are often most susceptible to fall victim to vaccine preventable diseases, and plenty of parents have shared their tragic stories with us.

Yet, there will always be parents who don’t vaccinate their children and some who readily admit that they are not concerned about how their decisions impact others.  While they may never be persuaded by calls for moral and ethical responsibility, we must not let this deter us from addressing other parents who are still investigating their immunization questions and concerns.  Hopefully, more medical news correspondents, like Dr. Nancy Snyderman, who call upon people to be compassionate towards others, will help to clarify the dangers of disease and emphasize the importance of immunizations.

But it’s also up to us.  We each need to take up the conversation with our friends and family to ensure that we’re being responsible in taking care of one another, as well as taking care of ourselves.  Recently, there have been some powerful stories featured on the Moms Who Vax blog that illustrate that decisions can change.  Parents who once chose not to vaccinate, can become parents who now strongly advocate for vaccines.  If you are looking for more information, I encourage you to visit the blogs and websites we suggest here on Shot of Prevention.  There are plenty of expert opinions to consider and we would prefer not to hear another parent decide against vaccination while admitting that they “really don’t know” what’s best.

  1. Steve Walters
    November 29, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    More people are choosing not vaccinate because they are are getting smarter. More people are learning about the dangers of vaccines. They do not prevent disease but rather cause more problems. Unvaccinated kids tend to be nearly 5 times less likely get common diseases. Yeah I’ll take those odds. No thanks vaccines!

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  2. November 29, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Oh good god. Steve, really? Please cite you peer-reviewed science on your claim that unvax kids are five times less likely to get “common diseases.” What about the uncommon ones, like measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis. You know the ones that are coming back because you aren’t vaccinating your children and are spreading misinformation like this?

    This is exhausting.

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  3. November 29, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    To any new parents out there reading this fine blog, vaccines are the most studied and safest “medication” the world has ever known. I’d be interested to know if anti-vaxxers like Steve above would refuse antibiotics to their desperately sick child, simply because antibiotics can be “dangerous” to a tiny segment of the population. There is a gap in logic here–antibiotics are actually far more likely to cause harmful side effects than vaccines. And yet if your child was suffering from bacterial pneumonia, it might be the only thing that saves her. Vaccine-preventable diseases are invisible until your child gets one; and by then, the vaccine is too late.

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  4. Christine Vara
    November 29, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Dr. Snyderman also appeared on The Today Show this morning, continuing her message that unimmunized children are “a walking typhoid Mary that can put any of those immune compromised people in an early grave”. Personally, I think we need to hear more medical news correspondents speaking so strongly in favor of public health. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640

    Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

    Like

  5. November 29, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    “it’s time we acknowledge that some parents are making decisions for their children that may have a direct impact on others.”

    This is an excellent point that often seems to get overlooked. Take the current measles outbreaks for example. Children who follow the CDC immunization aren’t protected until they get their first dose of MMR when they are 12 months old and aren’t fully protected until they get their booster dose at 4 years. That leaves plenty of time for unvaccinated children to expose these children to measles and get them sick.

    You would think that 220 cases of measles in the US this year, the most in 15 years, would have led parents to question their decision to not vaccinate, but it looks like it is going to take outbreaks on the scale that they are seeing in Europe (30,000 cases this year, with 8 deaths, 23 cases of measles encephalitis, and 915 cases of pneumonia, with most cases in unvaccinated (82%) or incompletely vaccinated (13%) people) to change their minds.

    Our record number of measles cases this year should have been a wake up call. Instead, it is likely to just foreshadow an increasing number of vaccine preventable diseases cases in the years to come.

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  6. November 29, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    I am a Mother of four in Minnesota and believe in vaccines 100%; my son who is 6 has low functioning autism and I do not for one second believe that the vaccines caused his autism, my other 3 children are fully vaccinated and have no signs of any cognitive delays whatsoever. It makes me angry to think that these kids are in our public schools and not fully vaccinated, and stop saying that “vaccines caused your child’s autism” instead of looking for a reason and a way to cure it accept the diagnosis and things become so much easier.

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  7. Nathan
    November 29, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    Unvaccinated kids tend to be nearly 5 times less likely get common diseases.

    A pretty strong citation is needed for this, something that is not an internet survey. Especially considering that the available evidence seems to indicate that vaccinated children have the same, or less, “common diseases” than unvaccinated children.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11023764
    “Our study revealed that children who received vaccination against diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, HiB and poliomyelitis simultaneously within the third month of life do not exhibit enhanced frequencies of infectious disease-associated symptoms. In contrary, the frequencies of infection-associated symptoms were found to be significantly reduced. This might be caused by a vaccination-associated unspecific enhancement of immunological activity (e.g. mediated by interleukin 2) or by other presently still unknown factors.”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1647657
    “Contrary to the premise, an apparent protective effect against invasive bacterial disease was detected after all childhood vaccinations. However, when adjustment was made for frequency of well-care visits and day-care attendance, no significant relationship was seen between receipt of routine childhood immunizations and risk of invasive heterologous bacterial disease for any individual vaccine, although a statistically significant protective effect was detected within 1 or 3 months after the receipt of any vaccine.”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2058605
    “The rate of illness before immunization was 53%, and after immunization, 43%, again suggesting no causative effects from DTP immunization.”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3050858
    “The results of this analysis provide no evidence for a causal relation between vaccination with the studied acellular pertussis vaccines and altered resistance to invasive disease caused by encapsulated bacteria.”

    http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/40/4/955.abstract
    “Conclusion: Smallpox vaccination is associated with a reduced risk of infectious disease hospitalization in a high-income setting.”

    http://www.aerzteblatt.de/int/article.asp?id=80869
    “The prevalence of allergic diseases and non-specific infections in children and adolescents was not found to depend on vaccination status. ”
    Further,
    “In addition to atopic disorders, we further compared diseases—such as obstructive bronchitis, pneumonia and otitis media, heart disease, anemia, epilepsy, and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)—in unvaccinated and vaccinated subjects. No relevant differences in the lifetime prevalences were found, neither for different age groups nor between girls and boys.”

    The smart odds are on immunizations.

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  8. Chris
    November 29, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    [citation needed]

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  9. November 29, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    the “unvaccinated kids tend to be nearly 5 times less likely get common diseases” false myth is derived from Andreas Bachmair’s unqualified, online survey of vaccine-refusing parents. It depends upon parental recall and the findings of the survey has not been validated by examining the children’s medical records. A moment’s thought will reveal why this survey has no validity whatsoever. It’s just Bachmair’s claims.

    An actual published study using medical records shows that unvaccinated children are sicker. A German study of

    13,359 children who had received at least one vaccination and 94 children who had received not a single vaccination. For those keeping score, the percentage of completely unvaccinated children was 0.7%. The subjects came from children covered in the Kinder- und Jugendgesundheitssurvey (Health Interview and Examination Survey for Children and Adolescents) carried out between 2003 and 2006.

    What they found was that the unvaccinated kids led in one important metric: they had significantly more pertussis, measles and mumps than the vaccinated kids.

    As for allergic disease (atopy), asthma and susceptibility to “colds”, there was no significant difference between the two groups.

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  10. Chris
    November 29, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Since a moderated comment has come between, I should clarify that the citation should be for the statement: “Unvaccinated kids tend to be nearly 5 times less likely get common diseases.”

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  11. peggy wilson
    November 29, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    The problem that i have found that people are receiving their information from questionable sources. I am an RN with an autistic son. I began getting info from someone in my husband’s family about vaccines and autism. When I told her that she needed to be careful of her sources. I was lambasted. They were from all these natural sources. I finally had to stop saying anything. It is the well educated that think info from these websites are true. I am feel too that it is going to take a serious outbreak to get people to change

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  12. Chris
    November 29, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    he “unvaccinated kids tend to be nearly 5 times less likely get common diseases” false myth is derived from Andreas Bachmair’s unqualified, online survey of vaccine-refusing parents.

    Oh, wow. It is an unscientific self selected survey? So, even if he actually cited it, the survey is worthless.

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  13. MEH
    November 29, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    I think its fine if you do not want to vaccinate your kids. However, they should not be allowed in public schools. If someone wants a religious exemption they should send their kid to a religious school. You should be allowed to put your kid at risk, but not everyone else’s kid.

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  14. Chris
    November 30, 2011 at 1:50 am

    I had to be very careful to protect my first baby from pertussis, because he was denied the DTP due to a history of seizures, and only had the DT vaccine. This was at a time when our county was having a pertussis outbreak (about the same time measles came back and killed several Americans). So I actually asked about the vaccine status of children he came into contact with.

    I say this because some who do not want to vaccinate their children complain that school admittance restrictions are bad. I really don’t care, since i had to restrict my son’s activity to protect him. If they want to flaunt public health policies, then they should stay away from public schools. They can either homeschool or create their own schools that can ignore public health policies.

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  15. Susan
    November 30, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Regardless of where they go to school, it really isn’t fine for children to be unvaccinated unless they are quarantined in their own homes. The health of unvaccinated children is dependent upon the vaccinated status of the majority of children. Many good points have been made above. It is just a shame that people can be so easily lead by uninformed fear to make such irresponsible decisions. Do they really want to go back to the days when many children didn’t survive to adulthood?

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  16. Earnest
    December 3, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    If the other kids are vaccinated how are they at risk?

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  17. Earnest
    December 3, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    A common talking point. Sources must come from people selling books, websites, or poor researchers. Don’t acknowledge all the medical doctors speaking out against the dangers.

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  18. Earnest
    December 3, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Thinking rationally should lead people to the understanding that unvacuolated children are only a harm to themselves and not to vaccinated children. To believe otherwise must mean that someone doesn’t believe the vaccines work.

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  19. Chris
    December 4, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    The Nirvana Fallacy is to expect everything is or should be 100% perfect. Here is the answer to your question:

    1. Some kids, like mine, cannot get certain vaccines.

    2. Some children are too young to be vaccinated. And I have never been in an elementary school building where a parent does not bring in their younger children, including babies that have not had their MMR or full DTaP series.

    3) Vaccines are not 100% effective. That is something that just happens. These children need herd immunity to be protected.

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  20. Chris
    December 4, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    What about babies under a year old? What about children with immune disorders? Why do you think vaccines are 100% effective? That is a Nirvana Fallacy.

    Here is some herd immunity arithmetic to help you understand:

    Take 1000 people (ignoring the infants under 2 months who cannot be vaccinated, or babies under a year who can only be partially vaccinated), if 5% refuse vaccines then the numbers are:

    950 vaccinated persons (assuming full schedule)
    50 unvaccinated persons

    The pertussis vaccine is actually only 80% effective at worse, so the numbers are:

    760 protected persons
    190 vaccinated but vulnerable persons
    50 unvaccinated persons

    There is an outbreak and it gets spread to 20% of the population, then:

    760 protected persons without pertussis

    38 vaccinated persons get pertussis
    152 vaccinated person who may still get pertussis

    10 unvaccinated persons get pertussis
    40 unvaccinated persons who may still get pertussis.

    This is why vaccination rates need to be high, and how the unvaccinated can cause harm to others. For an example, please read this, see that it contains this phrase “they were too young to be vaccinated.”:
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5708a3.htm

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  21. Nathan
    December 4, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    I’m curious to see if you could point to me one such antivaccine medical doctor that is not “selling books, websites, or poor researchers.” Or otherwise profiting from the promotion of antivaccine misinformation. There may be some, but I have yet to find one.

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  22. lis
    December 6, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    if you knew how many unvaccinated people you were in contact with every day you’d be shocked! Guess what! You’re not sick. Go figure.

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  23. Katie Beecher
    December 6, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    It is REALLY not cool for the CDC to tell America that vaccines are safe when they are not. The CDC doesn’t admit that what happened to my mother can happen, even though they have known since the 50’s and it is in all of the drug company inserts.

    After a seasonal flu vaccine (not even H1N1) three years ago, she still can’t even sit up or feed herself. The neurologists said they have seen this many times before. Watch her video to learn what she was never told even though she was a nursing professor.

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  24. Chris
    December 7, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Usually we find out when there is an outbreak. Like mumps at UC Berkeley and the rise of measles in Europe, with several deaths.

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  25. Chris
    December 7, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    The plural of anecdote is not data.

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  26. cia parker
    December 8, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Increasing numbers of parents are not vaccinating, not because we are irresponsible, but because we are. My daughter reacted with encephalitis to the hep-B vaccine given to her at the hospital when she was born (when I had told her pediatrician I didn’t want her to get it). She was later diagnosed with autism. Both my arms were paralyzed for two days by a tetanus booster when I was nineteen, and I later developed multiple sclerosis. The cause of the tremendous surge in asthma, allergies, bowel disease, diabetes, autism, and seizure disorders lies with vaccines, which throw the immune system into a state of panic, and although an inflammatory reaction is meant to be produced by a vaccine, this response often goes far beyond what was desired, leading to acute inflammation (autism and epilepsy from the brain damage) or chronic inflammation (all the autoimmune diseases listed above). Nearly half of American children are burdened by living with one or more of these chronic conditions. The expense of caring for so many permanently disabled people is going to be astronomic. The overwhelming majority of people who get measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, and pertussis are sick for a few days or weeks (over a month for pertussis), and then get well, with a permanently strengthened and better-educated immune system. Diseases like meningitis and hepatitis can be very severe or fatal, but are uncommon, and the vaccines for them are dangerous.
    It is an entirely logical, responsible decision to take into account the dangers of vaccines and the low risk of permanent damage from the vaccine-preventable diseases, and the immense benefit conferred by educating the immune system by overcoming the diseases naturally when they occur, and decide against vaccinating.

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  27. December 12, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    Except, of course that none of that is true.

    IF vaccines have anything to do with autism, how is it that changing vaccine habits (delaying or avoiding them) does NOTHING to reduce or even affect the rate that individuals are diagnosed with autism?

    Please solve that one logical problem with your position.

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  28. cia parker
    December 13, 2011 at 11:34 am

    No vax/unvax study on autism rates has been done, despite the fact that Congress has mandated twice that one be done. The vaccine industry has fought the idea tooth and nail, for obvious reasons. Offit, the vaccine defender par excellence, having made millions from the rotavirus vaccine, says that such a study could never be done, because it would deprive the unvaxed kids of valuable disease protection. Only a small percentage of Americans refuse all vaccinations for their children, and most would be happy to be part of such a study. A growing percentage refuses some vaccines for their children, and certainly studies should be done keeping track of results in all these groups, but to date no official largescale study has been done.

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  29. Kelly
    December 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    cia parker :
    Only a small percentage of Americans refuse all vaccinations for their children, and most would be happy to be part of such a study. A growing percentage refuses some vaccines for their children, and certainly studies should be done keeping track of results in all these groups, but to date no official largescale study has been done.

    Really? You think these parents would really sign up for a randomized study where half the kids got vaccines and the other half didn’t?

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  30. Chris
    December 13, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    http://www.aerzteblatt.de/v4/archiv/pdf.asp?id=80869

    The only difference is that children who had never been vaccinated had more vaccine preventable diseases..

    No vax/unvax study on autism rates has been done, despite the fact that Congress has mandated twice that one be done.

    Reference required.

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  31. Lenore
    December 17, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Cia Parker makes a lot of sense and I appreciate her candor. I’m tired of hearing people refer to vaccinations as if they’re the only thing that prevents you or your children from dying by uncommon diseases. People who chose to not vaccinate are not ignorant – they are well informed people making a different decision than the majority. Un-vaccinated children do not cause more risk to vaccinated ones; the fact that we live in a relatively clean and sanitary environment curbs most illnesses. Why do you think there are so many commercials telling people to wash their hands, or posters in your doctor’s office telling you, the patient, to ask whether your doctor washed his/her hands? These procedures don’t just help prevent common illnesses. There are constant and numerous factors that cause people to be sick and vacs are NOT the “end all be all” thing to prevent that from happening. In addition, we have substances that are absorbed into our bodies by processed foods and pollutants from equipment that cause us harm. The conveniences of our lifestyle is a contributing factor. Think about it – how often do you inhale gas fumes when filling up your car? Do you really think doing so isn’t damaging your body 2x a week, 8x a month, 96x per year? I also think it’s stupid for people on this board to ask Cia Parker for references whens she *personally* experienced the detriment of vaccinations. If I see rain coming down from the sky and I get wet, I don’t need to prove to you how it happened – look yourself. People can quote all the studies they want “proving” that vaccinations don’t cause autism, but I don’t need a convoluted explanation that lies about what I see right in front of my face. If I see it and turn a blind eye, then I’m an idiot. I refuse to turn a blind eye to this issue or vaccinate my future children just because it offends people and isn’t popular. People need to think and decide for themselves instead of quoting what their physician or even gov’t says. Vaccinations are dangerous and unnecessary in the quantities that they’re provided. There are alternative methods to protect your child that aren’t nearly as dangerous.

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  32. cia parker
    December 17, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    If you read Mayer Eisenstein’s book, you’ll see dozens of summaries of VAERS reports on adverse reactions to vaccines, with case numbers so you can authenticate them online if you’re interested. Dozens of healthy children who got a vaccine, any vaccine, and within hours or days had seizures, heart failure, went into coma, severe diarrhea, atoxia, hypothermia, autistic behavior, kidney failure, and/or paralysis, and many of them were dead within days of the vaccine. And these are only a sampling of the tens of thousands of adverse events in the VAERS database. And only a fraction of the total is ever reported. Parents unwilling to add their dead child to the database are just saying no to vaccines. We’ll take our chances with measles, a routine childhood disease when it was last heard from in the U.S. (Just remember to never give fever reducers, death is five times as likely if you use them.) It used to be that learning disabilities were vanishingly rare, now one in six children has one. Asthma is one in nine vaccinated children, unvaccinated children only have asthma at the rate of one in fifty, or less. Unvaccinated children have a fraction of the rate of diabetes, bowel disease, and allergies that vaccinated children do. It really doesn’t matter if unvaccinated children are more susceptible to vaccine-preventable diseases, we’d rather they got them than autism, asthma, peanut allergy, or epilepsy. Most adults have gained immunity to the meningococcal microbe by sub-clinical exposure without ever having gotten the vaccine. There’s a lot to be said for getting immunity the old-fashioned way and bypassing the whole lifelong vaccine-induced disability thing.

    You don’t want your child going near an unvaccinated child? What about all the adults at school, in stores, at the mall, at the movie theater, that he comes into contact with? Most adults’ childhood vaccines wore off long ago. I got a lot of DTPs as a child, but my nine-month old daughter, having had three DTaPs at 2, 4, and 6 months, caught pertussis at a La Leche League meeting and then gave it to me. I was a typical adult who no longer had any immunity, assuming the remarkably ineffective and very dangerous vaccine had ever given me any. My daughter coughed horribly for over a month, coughing up sheets of mucus at the end of a bout. I was sick over two months, racking fits of coughing, ten coughs on one breath. But we both got well, it wasn’t life-threatening, and I’m glad we now have immunity for at least several decades. If you are that worried about protecting your child from germs, maybe you’d better lock him in the bathroom and carve a slit in the door to slide his meals through. Immune systems have to take on many challenges to become adept at their job, going through illnesses like measles, mumps, chicken pox, and pertussis educates them and makes them stronger. Vaccines just screw them up and confuse them into a chronic autoimmune reaction, or burn up the brain with encephalitis, with lots of interesting variety in the subsequent manifestation of the brain damage.

    Most of the people in Europe getting measles in the current outbreak were appropriately vaccinated, and supposedly had life-long immunity to measles. Same with the whooping cough outbreak in California, most of the people who got it had been completely and appropriately immunized, but they got it anyway. Even appropriately vaccinated people are very likely to transmit the diseases to your child, never mind the unscrubbed majority who either were never vaccinated or it’s worn off. If you just want my child to go through the initiation rite of your religion and play vaccine roulette just the way your child did, then we really don’t want to play with you guys anyway. My child getting her head shot off just isn’t worth it.

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  33. Chris
    December 18, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    If you read Mayer Eisenstein’s book, you’ll see dozens of summaries of VAERS reports on adverse reactions to vaccines, with case numbers so you can authenticate them online if you’re interested.

    VAERS is a collection of self selected raw survey data, that can be put in by anyone, even someone not in the USA reporting a vaccine turned his daughter into Wonder Woman. Instead of Eisenstein (who has been sued by parents of children he has harmed, I read it in the Chicago Tribune), actually go to the VAERS data website(vaers .hhs .gov / data / index), and read this part about using it:

    A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described. It only confirms that the reported event occurred sometime after vaccine was given. No proof that the event was caused by the vaccine is required in order for VAERS to accept the report. VAERS accepts all reports without judging whether the event was caused by the vaccine.

    Yes, we know that immunity from the pertussis vaccine wears off. It also wears off after getting pertussis, sometimes as soon as four years you can get another three month bout of coughin:
    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2005 May;24(5 Suppl):S58-61.
    Duration of immunity against pertussis after natural infection or vaccination.

    So get a Tdap!

    Most of the people in Europe getting measles in the current outbreak were appropriately vaccinated, and supposedly had life-long immunity to measles.

    Oh, really? Do you have some real documentation for that? Because according to Medical News Today:

    Nine in every ten measles cases in Europe have occurred in adolescent and adult individuals who had either not been vaccinated, or their vaccination status was unknown.

    I don’t consider only 10% as “most.” Now 90% without a vaccine or documentation of vaccine is what I consider “most.” This is why we ask for evidence, because sometimes you write things that just don’t make sense or go against the actual published data.

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  34. Chris
    December 18, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Lenore:

    Un-vaccinated children do not cause more risk to vaccinated ones; the fact that we live in a relatively clean and sanitary environment curbs most illnesses.

    Actually, now you need to provide references for that statement. The reason is that we have plenty of documentation pointing to the unvaccinated causing illness to others:
    Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story

    Do look at the country comparisons, how some are right next to each other. Also pay attention to what happened in Japan: did sanitation there drop suddenly in the mid-1970s? Did it drop again ten years ago when they had a large outbreak of measles? See:
    BMC Public Health. 2005 Jun 4;5:59.
    Measles vaccine coverage and factors related to uncompleted vaccination among 18-month-old and 36-month-old children in Kyoto, Japan.

    Which says:

    According to an infectious disease surveillance (2000), total measles cases were estimated to be from 180,000 to 210,000, and total deaths were estimated to be 88 [11,12]. Measles cases are most frequently observed among non-immunized children, particularly between 12 to 24 months.

    Don’t forget the last outbreaks of measles in the USA were started by unvaccinated going overseas and coming back sick. In San Diego a kid infected several in a doctor’s waiting room, plus many in his undervaxed school. Then just recently an outbreak in Indiana started by someone who was not vaccinated. Also see:

    Pediatrics. 2010 Apr;125(4):747-55. Epub 2010 Mar 22.
    Measles outbreak in a highly vaccinated population, San Diego, 2008: role of the intentionally undervaccinated.

    N Engl J Med. 2006 Aug 3;355(5):447-55.
    Implications of a 2005 measles outbreak in Indiana for sustained elimination of measles in the United States.

    Waldorf schools in both California (abclocal.go . com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=6131662) and Virginia (dub dub dub dot roanoke . com/news/roanoke/wb/282419) have had to close due to outbreaks of pertussis among a mostly unvaccinated population.

    So when you say something that goes against both common sense and the data, you really do have to back it up with some real evidence. Something like the following would be nice:

    Pediatrics. 2009 Jun;123(6):1446-51.
    Parental refusal of pertussis vaccination is associated with an increased risk of pertussis infection in children.

    Am J Epidemiol. 2008 Dec 15;168(12):1389-96. Epub 2008 Oct 15.
    Geographic clustering of nonmedical exemptions to school immunization requirements and associations with geographic clustering of pertussis.

    JAMA. 2000 Dec 27;284(24):3145-50.
    Individual and community risks of measles and pertussis associated with personal exemptions to immunization.

    West J Med. 1993 Oct;159(4):455-64.
    Measles epidemic from failure to immunize.

    Like

  35. Chris
    December 18, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Lenore:

    People can quote all the studies they want “proving” that vaccinations don’t cause autism, but I don’t need a convoluted explanation that lies about what I see right in front of my face. If I see it and turn a blind eye, then I’m an idiot.

    So some questions about what is in front of your face:

    1. Does the sun go around our planet, or is it actually rising as dawn and setting at dusk, while everything around you is motionless?

    2. Is this planet flat or a sphere?

    3. Do swamp odors cause malaria, or is it a parasite that is vectored by mosquitoes?

    Yeah, you do need to prove your statements with real evidence, not just what you see with your own eyes. Because your own eyes can deceive you, (and for some entertaining reading , you should read some of Dr. Oliver Sacks’ books on his patients, like the The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat, and also VS Ramachandran’s A Brief Tour of Human Consciousness: From Impostor Poodles to Purple Numbers)

    Like

  36. cia parker
    December 18, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Cris,
    You are, of course, free to do as you like. Many people would balk at getting a Tdap every few years for their whole life, playing vaccine roulette multiple times with a very dangerous vaccine. I would encourage readers to read Dr. Mayer Eisenstein’s book for themselves and form their own judgments. If you think many parents are conning society at large by falsely filing reports with VAERS, you are, again, free to do so. A VAERS investigator follows up on reports, contacting the medical personnel involved. I know one did when I reported my daughter’s encephalitic reaction to the hep-B vaccine to VAERS. But again, if you believe there is widespread fraud involved in the institution, for no easily discernible reason, no one gets any money from it, again, you are entitled to your opinion. Not many people are likely to agree with you, since nearly everyone now has either been personally touched by tragic vaccine reactions or has a family member or acquantance who has been.
    I wrote what I had read about the measles outbreak in Europe. Both you and I depend for our knowledge of it on what we read, and your sources are obviously not the same as mine. Dr. Richard Moskowitz had this to say about natural measles infection: “The death rate from wild-type measles is very low, the incidence of serious sequelae is insignificant, and the general benefit to the child who recovers from the disease, and to his contacts and descendants, is very great. Consequently, even if the measles vaccine could be shown to reduce the risk of death or serious complications from the disease, it still could not justify the high probability of autoimmune diseases, cancer, and whatever else may result from the propagation of latent measles virus in human tissue culture for life,” in Vaccination: The Issue of Our Times, ed. Peggy O’ Mara, p. 139. Many of us would rather forgo the devastatingly destructive MMR, and reap some of these truly great benefits from getting the natural diseases. Women who have had measles give protection to their breastfed babies for the first year of life, when the disease is most dangerous to babies. The natural plan had worked out a lot of details that cannot be approximated by any artificial vaccine program.

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  37. cia parker
    December 19, 2011 at 11:10 am

    The scientific reason is very simple. When the immune system is suddenly flung strange, threatening antigens like microbes, aluminum, mercury (now only in trace amounts in everything but the flu vaccine, formerly in huge amounts many times more than the FDA recommended maximum amount), formaldehyde, diploid cells from aborted fetuses, cells from varied animal blood and organs, et al., these antigens having bypassed the normal first lines of defense in the respiratory and digestive systems, it reacts in a way usually used as a last, desperate measure. All vaccines force the immune system to mount an inflammatory reaction: but many people’s immune system reacts to a more extreme degree with a dangerous, damaging inflammation. The brain becomes inflamed (encephalitis), and the brain damage can manifest as autism, seizure disorders, ADHD, mental retardation and/or dyslexia or other learning disabilities. This was why the DTP was taken off the market and replaced by the supposedly safer DTaP, which, though it produces fewer immediate reactions, produces just as many severe reactions as the old DTP.
    Vaccines are designed to keep the antigens circulating indefinitely, so that the immune system is forced to keep responding to the perceived threat, resulting in the many kinds of chronic autoimmune diseases we are seeing now in ever expanding numbers, asthma, every kind of allergy, bowel disease, diabetes, some kinds of autism. One in nine children who has received the pertussis vaccine develops asthma; only, at most, one in fifty unvaccinated children get it. Do you want the citations to the studies which have established these figures beyond a doubt? I will give them to you if you do. This means that children vaccinated for pertussis have immune systems which often react to the lung-based pertussis microbe by creating a condition of severe chronic inflammation of the lungs.
    Books like Randall Neustaedter’s The Vaccine Guide, Andrew Wakefield’s Callous Disregard, Wendy Lydall’s Raising a Vaccine-Free Child, books by Jamie Murphy, Aviva Jill Romm, Mayer Eisenstein, Dan Olmsted, David Kirby, the anthology Vaccine Epidemic, furnish citations to hundreds of scientific studies which have unravelled the mechanism involved in these aberrant immune reactions to vaccines which have crippled an entire generation of our children. Japan stopped giving the DTP vaccine to infants in the early 1970s when it killed or crippled many Japanese babies: as a consequence, their SIDs rate went down to nearly zero, and they achieved the position of lowest infant mortality rate in the world. Our infant mortality ranking is the worst of any first world country, because we give the most vaccines to infants. Sweden banned the DTP in the mid-’70s, but when they had a severe pertussis epidemic between 1977 and 1979 affecting thousands, there was not one fatality, even among infants.
    I looked up Mayer Eisenstein, and the only reference I found to lawsuits involved a doctor who worked at his clinic, who was found criminally negligent for not taking a woman in labor to the hospital soon enough, and whose infant died.
    Actually the sarcastic jibes you provided, like saying that we vaccine refusers are like the flat-earthers, were amusing. I talked to a friend on Saturday, and we were trying to think of comparisons from history, when people were forced to completely change an integral part of their world view to accomodate undeniable factual information, and many of them just refused to make the change. (Eppur, si muove!) We mentioned people who just can’t accept that vaccines are permanently damaging people by the millions, and compared them to people who couldn’t relinquish the belief that the sun went around the world, or that the earth was flat. She mentioned the idea that doctors’ washing their hands reduces the risk of infection, and I said that Dr. Semmelweis, the Austrian doctor who first made that observation, was reviled by the medical community, who locked him in an insane asylum, where he died under mysterious circumstances within a week. Most doctors and other medical professionals just cannot accept facts that contradict their core beliefs, the way they have always done things.
    Parents, knowing this, I advise you to read as many as possible of the books I mentioned above before you make the decision to vaccinate your child. It is the most important and life-changing decision you will ever make for him or her, and the doctor is not going to tell you all you need to know. (And even if he were an honest, intelligent doctor, how could he, with only a few minutes per patient?) Encephalitis often produces high fever, seizures, or long periods of inconsolable screaming, but sometimes only symptoms as mild as somnolence or staring epidodes when it’s hard to get the person’s attention (petit mal seizure). My baby screamed constantly for four days and nights starting four days after they gave her the hep-B vaccine in the hospital when she was born, and was later diagnosed with autism. If the child’s encephalitis produced only mild symptoms, and a year or more elapses before the child’s neurological disease manifests, many parents don’t make the connection. And even if they do, it’s too late for that child, and for all they talk about early intervention, it really doesn’t do much for most children.

    Like

  38. cia parker
    December 20, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Information about the current measles outbreak in Europe is available at Time Healthland and many other websites. According to it, as of October 26, there had been 26,074 cases of measles in Europe this year, of whom nine had died, a mortality rate of 0.03%, or three out of ten thousand. The CDC says that measles kills at a rate of 0.15%, a death rate that would be five times higher than that seen in Europe this year, so the CDC’s rate must be considered to be a greatly exaggerated figure, no surprise when you consider its angle.
    The article in Time, a big vaccine supporter, said that half of the people in Europe who had gotten measles were unvaccinated, ten percent definitely were vaccinated, and the vaccination status of forty percent was uncertain. However, it said overall rates of vaccination with the MMR in Europe are high, though not achieving the 95% considered (mistakenly) to be necessary for herd immunity. That probably means that many of the forty percent with unknown vaccination status had in fact been vaccinated: in measles outbreaks in the U.S. several decades ago, most of the students who got measles had been appropriately vaccinated, in some schools the vaccination rate was 100%, but many students got measles anyway.
    What is clear is that of those who have gotten measles in Europe this year, 26,065 of the total recovered and now have permanent immunity and never have to think about the problem again. All of the girls and women will now be able to give their infants immunity to measles when they breastfeed them, sharing their own measles antibodies with them. Women who have been vaccinated with the MMR give no immunity to their babies in the year in which they are the most vulnerable to complications from measles.
    On the other hand, in 2010 there were 3,427 reports to the VAERS of adverse events caused by the MMR, including fifteen deaths. This means that your child’s chance of getting autism, bowel disease, or dying from the MMR is much greater than that of his being disabled or dying from getting wild-type measles, should there be an outbreak here.

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  39. Chris
    December 21, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Look, a wall of text without a hint of evidence. I’ll only post one comment:

    Sweden banned the DTP in the mid-’70s, but when they had a severe pertussis epidemic between 1977 and 1979 affecting thousands, there was not one fatality, even among infants

    Citation needed, especially since this says:

    SID mortality rate followed significantly the monthly prevalence of BP in Sweden (P < 0.01) and Stockholm (P < 0.0001) during the study period. In Norway there was a significant correlation only during the epidemic outbreak of WC (P < 0.05), but not for the whole study period. When controlling for seasonality a significant correlation remained in the urban area of Stockholm (P < 0.05). CONCLUSION: It is suggested that covariations between WC and SID mortality rate may be related to transmission rate and immunisation status of the investigated population.

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  40. Chris
    December 21, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    On the other hand, in 2010 there were 3,427 reports to the VAERS of adverse events caused by the MMR, including fifteen deaths.

    I see you don’t read the comments to your posts, nor the actual words on the VAERS website:

    A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described. It only confirms that the reported event occurred sometime after vaccine was given. No proof that the event was caused by the vaccine is required in order for VAERS to accept the report. VAERS accepts all reports without judging whether the event was caused by the vaccine.

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  41. Tsu Dho Nimh
    December 22, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Cia parker – On the VAERS site is specifies, VAERS data should be used with caution as numbers and conditions do not reflect data collected during follow-up.

    I searched VAERS for the 15 deaths “caused by MMR” you mentioned in 2010. There were 6 deaths reported in children who had also been vaccinated with any variety of MMR:
    1 – child with history of frequent illness died of MRSA sepsis
    2 – symptoms and lab work consistent with viral meningitis
    3 – sudden death, autopsy found fibroelastosis of heart
    4 – found dead in crib (SIDS?), no further info
    5 – viral meningitis
    6 – no autopsy, no medical records

    So … what are the case numbers of the 15 deaths you claim?

    Also, the supposed link between MMR and bowel disease has been discredited. Andrew Wakefield LIED! He altered the data.

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  42. cia parker
    December 22, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    In what way do you believe that Dr. Wakefield altered the data on the children in the Lancet 12? The data recorded in the families’ Red Books kept at home for visiting nurses to write their observations confirmed the previous health and subsequent decline of the children involved. The pathology reports finding bowel disease in the tissue samples taken were done by lab personnel independent of Dr. Wakefield. Dr. Wakefield’s hospital knew about the payment he had received to conduct a study on vaccines and autism for a class action suit, and did not find it improper that he had received this resarch grant from which he personally received no compensation. Each of the tests he ran was clinically indicated for the treatment of the individual child. HIs hospital was aware of the tests run, but no special ethical clearance was required because the children involved were very sick. Even Brian Deer has backed away from his original allegations, admitting now that there was no fraud involved. None of the parents involved accused Dr Wakefield of ethical viiolations or medically unnecessary procedures. The article was accepted for publication in the Lancet after having been vetted by its professional committee. Details on the age at receipt of the MMR, previous medical history, and subsequent development of autism and/or bowel disease may be found in chapter two of Dr. Wakefield’s book Callous Disregard, supported by many references to medical records and published studies. None of the children had symptoms of autism before the MMR, nine of them did afterwards. The conjunction of autism and bowel disease which Dr. Wakefield has been accused of inventing has now been accepted as a well-documented fact, and pediatricians are advised to screen for bowel disease once a diagnosis of autism has been made. Hundreds of thousands of parents just in the U.S. have reported that their child was developing normally until he got the MMR, when within days or weeks he regressed into autism and/or bowel disease.
    And parents are supposed to take this risk to try to prevent measles, mumps, and rubella, all of which are nearly always harmless diseases when they occur in children?

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  43. Kelly
    December 22, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Hundreds of thousands of parents just in the U.S. have reported that their child was developing normally until he got the MMR, when within days or weeks he regressed into autism and/or bowel disease. And parents are supposed to take this risk to try to prevent measles, mumps, and rubella, all of which are nearly always harmless diseases when they occur in children?

    cia parker is guilty of a common logical fallacy called “post hoc ergo propter hoc”. Simply, correlation does not mean causation. More recent, larger studies show no correlation between the MMR and autism. Thus parents are not taking this risk, because this risk doesn’t exist. http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p4026.pdf

    Brian Deer wrote a series of articles for BMJ describing the case against Wakefield. One can find the series here: http://www.immunize.org/bmj%2Ddeer%2Dmmr%2Dwakefield/

    More information on vaccines and autism can be found here: http://www.immunize.org/autism/

    Measles is hardly a harmless disease. Nine deaths in Europe this year. While rubella may be mild in children, the risk to the fetus if the mother is exposed during the first trimester can lead to congenital defects or death. Mumps can results in brain damage and deafness.

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  44. cia parker
    December 22, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    Chris,
    Do you have a better way to keep track of adverse events to vaccines? When a child reacts, many doctors don’t recognize it as a vaccine reaction, even if it occurs shortly after a vaccination and causes symptoms that have been universally recognized as symptoms of a possible vaccine reaction. Presumably this is both because of ignorance and guilt and denial at having damaged a child by following the accepted protocol. My daughter’s pediatrician tried to dismiss as colic the four days and nights of inconsolable, high-pitched screaming that started four days after the hep-B vaccination. Shouldn’t he have brought up the possibility of encephalitis? Since the entire medical establishment has adopted a stance of denial of vaccine damage, it cannot be relied upon to accurately report the damage done. The VAERS is federally funded and staffed. The investigators follow up reports by talking to the medical personnel involved. In the vast majority of cases, this is the only way for a parent to get a vaccine reaction taken seriously. Most of the reports to the VAERS are made in intricate and upsetting detail, and, as already mentioned, are authenticated by the VAERS staff. It may be an imperfect system, it may be that some people invent damage and report it to get attention, but without the VAERS we would just be letting the medical cartel and Big Pharma sweep all vaccine damage under the carpet, their motivation being to protect the billiions of dollars they get every year from the vaccine industry. Isn’t it sort of like saying that because some women make false accusations of rape, we shouldn’t take seriously any woman’s charge of rape?

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  45. cia parker
    December 22, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Chris,
    Since it is well-known that the pertussis vaccine is responsible for most cases of SIDS, it is very likely that the information you cite about the SIDS rate going up in Stockholm during the pertussis epidemic there 1977-9 is correct. This would mean that either the pertussis vaccine or the natural disease may cause an infant to die of SIDS, and parents would have to decide if they want to take a chance on the devastating sequelae of many sorts which may be triggered by the pertussis vaccine, or the chance of getting the natural disease and having it cause SIDS in their baby. They might be better advised to try to quarantine infants during the first, most vulnerable months, especially since the vaccine has such a high failure rate anyway, and keeping the infant up on their shoulder all the time to help them cough and giving him Pertudoron 1 and 2 in the event he gets pertussis. You said you successfully quarantined your infant to keep him from getting pertussis. I, on the other hand, trusted the DTaP at 2, 4, and 6 months to protect my baby, and went to a La Leche League meeting with tons of babies and toddlers, without a second thought, and she caught pertussis there. She was nine months old, and it wasn’t a big deal for her to have pertussis, although it was alarming at the time, but I would have been racked with guilt if I had taken her there before the age of four months and she had caught it and developed a worse case.

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  46. cia parker
    December 22, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    Autism did not exist before the first cases caused by the pertussis vaccine in the late ’30s and early ’40s. Leo Kanner, on describing the first cases, said it had never been seen nor described before, and, when he and his colleagues at Johns Hopkins collaborated on a compendium of every neurological disease known to mankind in the mid ’30s, nothing anywhere close to autism was described. The rate of autism was only one in ten thousand in the early 1980s: rates started to spiral upward with the MMR in the late ’80s and the hep-B at birth starting in 1991. A subcongressional committee had held a hearing on the safety of the hep-B vaccine in 1999, and heard testimony by people such as Missouri school nurse Patti White, testifying on behalf of her organization of school nurses that the hep-B vaccine had caused the sudden deluge of autim in MIssouri public schools starting in the late ’90s, and Judy Converse, whose son reacted to the vaccine with bowel disease and autism. The committee found that it was so dangerous it recommended a moratorium be placed on its use, but it was given to my daughter at the hospital when she was born without even informing me beforehand or asking me for permission. I had already told her pediatrician I didn’t want her to get it because of the risk of its causing autism. She reacted with four days and nights of inconsolable, high-pitched screaming, and was later diagnosed with autism. You accuse me of being guilty of post hoc ergo propter hoc. I accuse you of being unscientific in your unwillingness to look at children who react within days of getting a vaccine, and say it might well be that the vaccine caused the reaction and the subsequent disability. Hundreds of thousands of parents have seen the reactions and the disability, while hundreds of doctors say nonsense, the vaccine couldn’t possibly have caused the damage (even though the package inserts say they could). Seven years ago the autism rate in the U.S. was one in 150. Now it’s one in 88. The only thing that has changed is the number of vaccines children get. It would be scientific to do a vax/unvax study, and Congress has twice mandated that one be carried out, but it never has. Does this seem scientific to you, or do you agree with Offit that it would deprive the unvaxed kids of valuable disease protection, and therefore could never be ethically done? Hundreds of thousands of parents say their child was fine until he got the MMR, not just those of the Lancet 12, and then became very sick within days. Is there an equal number of parents who say their child was displaying symptoms of bowel disease or autism and THEN got the MMR, showing that there was no causation? Please give me the citation if you can find one.

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  47. Kelly
    December 22, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Since it is well-known that the pertussis vaccine is responsible for most cases of SIDS

    It is well-known that the pertussis vaccine is NOT responsible for SIDS, cia parker. http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309088860

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  48. cia parker
    December 22, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    The package insert for Tripedia (DTaP) on page 11 states that some of the adverse reactions that may be caused by it include: idiopathic thrombocytopenia purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence, and apnea. So it’s not that well-known that the pertussis vaccine does not cause SIDS, since even the manufacturer admits it.

    You might also want to look at: Hutcheson, R. ETP immunization and sudden infant death-Tennessee. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 1979; 28: 131-5.
    Roberts, S.C. Vaccination and cot deaths in perspective. Archives of Disease in Childhood 1987; 62:754-759.
    Werne, J., Garrow, I. Fatal anaphylactic shock: occurrence in identical twins following second injection of diphtheria toxoid and pertussis antigen. Journal of American Medical Association 1946; 131: 730-735.
    Baraff, I.J., Ablon, W.J., Weiss, R.C. Possible temporal association between diphtheria-tetanus toxoid-pertussis vaccination and sudden infant death syndrom. Pediatric Infectious Diseases 1983; 2:7-11.
    Torch, W. Diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus (DPT) immunization: A potential cause of the sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). Neurology 1982; 32:A169.
    Walker, A.M. , Jick, H., Perera, D.R. et al. Diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis immunization and sudden infant death syndrome. Am Journal of Public Health 1987; 77:945-951.
    Walker, A.M. Does pertussis vaccine cause sudden infant death? Presentation for Institute of Medicine Workshop on Possible Adverse Consequences of Pertussis and Rubella Vaccines, Wasington, DC, May 14, 1990. Unpublished.
    Storsaeter, J., Olin, Pl, Renemar, B. et al. Mortality and morbidity from invasive bacterial infections during a clinical trial of acellular pertussis vaccines in Sweden. Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal 1988; 7:637-645.

    For you to just state that the pertussis vaccine does NOT cause SIDS means that you are just unaware of the evidence yourself, or are aware of it and are an active participant in the medical industry’s strategy of circle the wagons and defend the safety of vaccines to the death. If you want more citations, please just tell me, and I will type some more out for you. To any parents reading this, I would just say Caveat emptor.

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  49. cia parker
    December 22, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    For those who don’t want to look up the articles on the pertussis vaccine causing SIDS, I’ll just summarize a couple by saying that in Walker’s case-control study, the relative risk for SIDS within three days of vaccination was 7.3, a big risk (Walker 1990). The Torch study found an increased incidence of SIDS immediately after vaccination compared to a control period several weeks later. The Baraff study found that the excessive deaths within 24 hours of vaccination and within one week afterwards, while there were no deaths in the fourth week after vaccination, were “statistically significant.”

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  50. Nathan
    December 22, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Do you have a better way to keep track of adverse events to vaccines?

    I don’t. But fortunately VAERS is not the primary way we determine whether something is a vaccine reaction. There is a huge network of safety systems to determine what is a vaccine reaction and estimate the incidence, including the Vaccine Safety Datalkink. But that does not mean that you can use VAERS data the way you

    When a child reacts, many doctors don’t recognize it as a vaccine reaction, even if it occurs shortly after a vaccination and causes symptoms that have been universally recognized as symptoms of a possible vaccine reaction. Presumably this is both because of ignorance and guilt and denial at having damaged a child by following the accepted protocol.

    I posit that this is more likely because a lot of stuff you think is a vaccine reaction is not actually a vaccine reaction.

    My daughter’s pediatrician tried to dismiss as colic the four days and nights of inconsolable, high-pitched screaming that started four days after the hep-B vaccination. Shouldn’t he have brought up the possibility of encephalitis?

    Probably not, since the evidence indicates that encephalitis is not caused by the hepatitis B vaccine. Encephalitis has other symptoms besides screaming, and colic is extremely common in the newborn period independently of vaccination. This is an example of what I was talking about above.

    Since the entire medical establishment has adopted a stance of denial of vaccine damage,

    Except that they don’t. Stop drinking the antivaccine Kool-aid. Vaccine damage is well recognized. It is so well studied that we have estimates how often it occurs. It occurs several orders of magnitude less than damage from vaccine-preventable diseases.

    The VAERS is federally funded and staffed. The investigators follow up reports by talking to the medical personnel involved. In the vast majority of cases, this is the only way for a parent to get a vaccine reaction taken seriously. Most of the reports to the VAERS are made in intricate and upsetting detail, and, as already mentioned, are authenticated by the VAERS staff.

    Serious events are indeed investigated, though not all in the manner in which you describe. This does not mean, however, that they are all (or any of them) determined to be caused by the vaccines. In many cases they determine that they are not caused by vaccines. But this is not reflected in the VAERS report, nor is the VAERS report removed if it is determined to be from another cause.

    For examples, all the deaths reported to VAERS from the Gardasil were investigated. None of them were determined to be caused by the vaccine. In addition, no deaths following varicella vaccination have ever been determined to be from the vaccine upon investigation. Some deaths following MMR vaccine have been determined to be from the vaccine. Many have not. But as I described in another comment to you, even if you count all deaths and serious events following MMR as actually being from the vaccine, it is miniscule compared to the deaths and serious outcomes following wild measles.

    Isn’t it sort of like saying that because some women make false accusations of rape, we shouldn’t take seriously any woman’s charge of rape?

    You really don’t understand. Cia, no one is saying that the majority of VAERS reports are made up. We are saying, and it is recognized, that VAERS reports occurred after vaccination, but this does not mean they are caused by the vaccination. Some may have been caused by the vaccination, some were not. Therefore, you cannot count them and say they were all caused by vaccines. Does this make sense?

    When the CDC and FDA use VAERS data, they do not simply do a count of events, they apply statistical methods on the data to determine whether causation is likely. It is far more complex than you want to portray, and raw VAERS events by themselves are not evidence that a vaccine is dangerous, nor can you compare it to adverse events from a vaccine-preventable disease.

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  51. cia parker
    December 22, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    And as for Brian Deer, some of you do not seem to have kept up with the fast-moving events of last spring. Brian Deer, a free-lance journalist, brought the action against Andrew Wakefield himself, spending many hours over many months attending the hearings. When asked who had paid him to do so, he answered that the Sunday Times of London had paid him. But the Sunday Times denied having done so, saying that they had occasionally bought his free-lance pieces, but he was not their employee, and they had not paid him to attend the hearings. So who do you think did? (Or do you think the Times was lying, even though it might have considered it a feather in its cap to take part in the lynching of Wakefield?) Many of us suspect that someone in Big Pharma hired him to ruin Wakefield and make an example of him, to scare other researchers from investigating the dangers of vaccines.

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  52. Nathan
    December 22, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    The package insert for Tripedia (DTaP) on page 11 states that some of the adverse reactions that may be caused by it include… SIDS… So it’s not that well-known that the pertussis vaccine does not cause SIDS, since even the manufacturer admits it.

    No, Cia, it does not. Here is what it says:

    “Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.

    SIDS (and the other things listed) has been reported following administration of Tripedia, to VAERS and to the company. Of course it has. Vaccines are given in infancy. It would be impossible for some SIDS to not follow vaccination sometimes. But a report is not evidence of causation. The manufacturer is not “admitting” that vaccines cause SIDS, only that it has been reported following a vaccination at some point, which is expected to happen even when they are unrelated.

    For you to just state that the pertussis vaccine does NOT cause SIDS means that you are just unaware of the evidence yourself, or are aware of it and are an active participant in the medical industry’s strategy of circle the wagons and defend the safety of vaccines to the death.

    Oh, come on. It means neither. The third possibility is that it means your citations are poor and out of date, and selective. The evidence you cited is weak, as it consists mostly of case reports, temporal events, and hypothetical theories from decades ago. There is a large amount of hard data in the last thirty years demonstrating that vaccines do not cause SIDS, and in fact vaccinated children have far less SIDS. Here are just a few of my citations.

    Hoffman et al, 1987:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3493477
    “These results confirm the earlier preliminary findings from the NICHD SIDS Cooperative Epidemiological Study and suggest that DTP immunization is not a significant factor in the occurrence of SIDS.”

    Fleming et al, 2001:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11290634
    “CONCLUSIONS:
    Immunisation does not lead to sudden unexpected death in infancy, and the direction of the relation is towards protection rather than risk.”

    Vennemann et al 2007, meta-analysis of nine case controlled studies concerning vaccination status and SIDS:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400342
    “CONCLUSIONS:
    Immunisations are associated with a halving of the risk of SIDS. There are biological reasons why this association may be causal, but other factors, such as the healthy vaccinee effect, may be important. Immunisations should be part of the SIDS prevention campaigns.”

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  53. Kelly
    December 22, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Uhm, cia parker, a review from 2003 trumps your studies from 1946 – 1987. The last reference you gave doesn’t even have to do with SIDS and one is unpublished.

    But let’s look at your list:

    – The Hutcheson paper is not coming up in PubMed and pre-dates online version of the MMWR. No matter, because the DTP vaccine has been replaced by the DTaP.

    – The Roberts paper is a case study of twins that died within 24 hours of the DTP vaccine, which the author notes is within what would be expected as a coincidence. The abstract itself says “A number of studies into DTP vaccination as a risk factor in SID have shown that SID is less common in vaccinated than in unvaccinated infants.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1779219/pdf/archdisch00696-0108.pdf

    – A paper from 1946, really? Again, not relevant since that’s not the vaccine we use today.

    – Torch paper – couldn’t find it. No matter, because the DTP vaccine has been replaced by the DTaP

    – Walker paper – again, for the DTP and not DTaP, but interestingly, this paper also shows that unvaccinated children were more likely to die of SIDS and vaccination was shown to be protective against SIDS. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1647245/pdf/amjph00259-0017.pdf

    WOW – your own citations either shows you are wrong or are irrelevant and you have the nerve to say I’m unaware of the evidence. And for the record, I’m not paid by any pharmaceutical company.

    Like

  54. Kelly
    December 22, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    Ah yes, the pharma shill gambit, used by people when they don’t have any real evidence.

    Even if Wakefield was not a fraud, as you claim, numerous other studies show that his hypothesis was incorrect.

    Like

  55. Nathan
    December 22, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    Hi, Cia.

    The rate of autism was only one in ten thousand in the early 1980s:

    You are going to have to learn to distinguish the difference between “rate of autism” and “rate of diagnosis of autism.” A topic for later.

    rates started to spiral upward with the MMR in the late ’80s and the hep-B at birth starting in 1991.

    Umm, the MMR vaccine had been in widespread use in the US since the early seventies. You might want to keep that in mind before you say that again. And before you mention the second MMR vaccine that was added, you should know that this vaccine is given to kids four years and up, not very relevant to the diagnosis of autism.

    A subcongressional committee had held a hearing on the safety of the hep-B vaccine in 1999, and heard testimony by people such as Missouri school nurse Patti White, testifying on behalf of her organization of school nurses that the hep-B vaccine had caused the sudden deluge of autim in MIssouri public schools starting in the late ’90s, and Judy Converse, whose son reacted to the vaccine with bowel disease and autism.

    Good thing that there have been studies since those anecdotes. They show that vaccines do not contribute to autism or developmental problems.

    The committee found that it was so dangerous it recommended a moratorium be placed on its use,

    Can I have a link to this, please? Never heard this one before.

    but it was given to my daughter at the hospital when she was born without even informing me beforehand or asking me for permission.

    Huh. Generally it is required that you sign for vaccinations. You didn’t sign for it? And they did it behind your back? Then they should not have given it. I’m on your side there.

    I had already told her pediatrician I didn’t want her to get it because of the risk of its causing autism. She reacted with four days and nights of inconsolable, high-pitched screaming,

    Elsewhere you said the crying stared four days later. What makes you call this a reaction? Quite a few things occurred around that time, such as being born. Also, crying inconsolably has occurred in babies long before there were vaccines.

    and was later diagnosed with autism.

    I’m guessing there is quite a time lapse here between the vaccine and the diagnosis. Are you thinking that your child’s subsequent diagnosis of autism is related to her singular hepatitis B vaccine at birth? I fail to see even a temporal connection here, much less one that is supported with scientific evidence.

    You accuse me of being guilty of post hoc ergo propter hoc. I accuse you of being unscientific in your unwillingness to look at children who react within days of getting a vaccine, and say it might well be that the vaccine caused the reaction and the subsequent disability.

    Who says we are unwilling? However, that may not be the best way to determine whether something is caused by a vaccine. There is no magic autism/vaccine test that you can do on an individual. The way to tell if autism is caused by vaccines is by looking at large numbers of kids, and seeing if kids who get a certain vaccine (like MMR) or kids who get more vaccines are more likely to get autism. They don’t.

    Hundreds of thousands of parents have seen the reactions and the disability,

    Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of studies show that vaccines don’t cause autism. Okay, that’s not actually true. But I can make up bigger numbers than you can.

    while hundreds of doctors say nonsense, the vaccine couldn’t possibly have caused the damage (even though the package inserts say they could).

    The inserts say nothing of the sort, as I demonstrated earlier, and the reason that doctors say that vaccines don’t cause autism is because it has been extensively studied and no evidence has been found that vaccines increase your risk for autism.

    Seven years ago the autism rate in the U.S. was one in 150. Now it’s one in 88. The only thing that has changed is the number of vaccines children get.

    Wow. The only thing in the whole world that has changed in the last seven years is the number of vaccines that children get? Really? And again, the rate of diagnosis vs. the rate of autism thing.

    It would be scientific to do a vax/unvax study, and Congress has twice mandated that one be carried out, but it never has.

    This is another assertion I would like a link to. Where is this mandate?

    Does this seem scientific to you, or do you agree with Offit that it would deprive the unvaxed kids of valuable disease protection, and therefore could never be ethically done?

    I agree with Offit. Thousands of studies demonstrate that vaccines are safe and effective. they are the standard of care. To deny vaccination to a large number of kids would be completely unethical and would likely result in unnecessary deaths.

    And, I am dying to know who would participate. If you are against vaccines, would you enroll in a study that gives your child a 50% chance of getting all of the routine vaccines? If you are in favor of vaccines, would you enroll in a study that would leave your child unprotected from vaccine preventable diseases? Be honest now.

    Fortunately, a DBPC prospective study is not the only way we can study whether vaccines cause autism. We can look at the number of vaccines, and see if more vaccines cause more autism. You are asserting that there is more autism today because we have more vaccines than in 1980. So, we can study that. And there is no link.

    http://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2011/webprogram/Paper9380.html

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/6/1134.abstract

    Hundreds of thousands of parents say their child was fine until he got the MMR, not just those of the Lancet 12, and then became very sick within days. Is there an equal number of parents who say their child was displaying symptoms of bowel disease or autism and THEN got the MMR, showing that there was no causation? Please give me the citation if you can find one.

    How about you give me a citation for your oft-repeated “hundreds of thousands” claim first?

    What you are asking for is not a great way to demonstrate “no causation.” Looking at lots of kids who did and did not get the MMR, and seeing if there is a difference in autism rates, is a much better way. Here is a list of such studies, among others.

    http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p4026.pdf

    Like

  56. cia parker
    December 26, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    Nathan,
    Ultimately it is up to the parents to decide if they want to take a chance on damagiing their child for life or believing what the medical industry says and going with the recommended vaccine program. I just read a letter yesterday from a mother who said she had a friend who was a vaccine refuser, and she thought she was wacko and was endangering her children by not getting them vaccinated. But then her own child reacted to a vaccine with autism and other disabilities, and she says that now the joke’s on her, her friend’s children are healthy while hers is permanently disabled.
    Most scientists are not busily engaged in figuring out how to differentiate coincidental occurences related to vaccines from causal ones: there’s too much money involved for Big Pharma. Have you read Patti White’s testimony before the sub-congressional committee on the (lack of) safety of the hepatitis-B vaccine in May 1999? She is a Missouri school nurse who said she and the other nurses in her association started out in the early ’90s believing in the value and safety of the hepatitis-B vaccine, but became convinced by the late ’90s that it was responsible for the huge surge in autism cases in Missouri at that time, when the post-’91 babies hit kindergarten. The committee found that the vaccine was so dangerous that it recommended that a moratorium be placed on its use. So why did it continue to be given to all newborns? I had been tested and was negative for hep-B. My baby was at no risk at all of contracting it. Any protection offered by the vaccine lasts less than five years, long before the child becomes sexually active or uses illegal drugs. They gave it to my newborn in May 2000 without even asking permission, and she reacted with encephalitis. It is not true that colic is common in newborns: colic follows a rule of three, it doesn’t start before the third week, it lasts for at least three hours a day, and it ends by three months of age. If you want to redefine it and say it occurs in newborns, that is an excellent way to cloak the encephalitic crying of newborns when they react to the hep-B vaccine. My baby screamed in my arms all night every night for four nights from four to eight days old (well, my mother came in in the middle of the night on two of those nights to relieve me). My baby crashed into an exhausted sleep for two hours at dawn, then woke to scream again. She lost one pound two ounces between Tuesday, May 9, and Thursday, May 11. Colic does not interfere with feeding, encephalitis does. Babies with encephalitis are in too much pain to eat, and either lose weight or die. My baby stopped the encephalitic screaming on Saturday, and after that throve, ate well, gained back the weight lost those two days (over one pound in two days is more than the accepted normal weight loss after birth), but the brain damage was done, and at twenty months old, she was diagnosed with suspected autism, later confirmed.
    It’s silly to say the hep-B vaccine never causes encephalitis, when there’s so much evidence that it does. And it’s silly to say the encephalopathy caused by encephalitis is not the same as the encephalopathy known as autism. Hundreds of thousands of us are saying that it is the same, and we have the vaccine-damaged children to prove it.
    Only a small handful of children a year are diagnosed with hep-B, only a small number die from pertussis, with vitamin A and no fever reducers, only a small number would die of measles. Growing numbers of us would rather take our chances with the natural diseases than get vaccines for our children and wait around to see what horrifying, weird autoimmune or neurological problems will result. When not that many children were noticeably damaged under a much smaller vaccine schedule, not many people realized how dangerous the vaccines were. With the extremely large number given now to most children, the damage is apparent to all, and you guys have killed the goose that laid the golden eggs.
    To say that the side effects listed in the package inserts are not necessarily caused by the vaccine is disingenuous. It means that a number of people have reported that they occurred to them shortly after receipt of the vaccine. There is no other way to find out what effects the vaccine may have. People are not kept in cages in labs and checked on at regular intervals. If a lot of people say the same thing, then most of us would say that’s enough evidence for us, we don’t want to take a chance and have the same thing happen to us. The safety trials for vaccines are a farce: they never compare those who are vaccinated with an unvaccinated control group, only to a group which has gotten another vaccine or the same vaccine at different dosages or intervals. They eliminate from their trial patients who are not in the best of health, even though these patients are ultimately given the vaccine regardless of their poor health. If a patient reacts badly to the first vaccine in a series, they eliminate that patient from the final tally of results.
    I work every day to pull my daughter up from her autism, I homeschool her three days a week. She helped me make Christmas cookies and stollen, measuring the flour carefully and breaking the eggs. But the whole time she asked me what my favorite zhu zhu pet was, over and over. If you people hadn’t pushed to get the hepatitis-B vaccine given to all newborns without even asking permission, she would be healthy and normal today. As Judy Converse said, it’s an all-risk, no-benefit vaccine (except for profits to the medical industry). I refused the MMR and the varicella vaccines for her, and was happy when I had a mild case of shingles and she caught chickenpox from me a few months later. I hope she will get measles and mumps in the next few years. God knows we will neither of us ever take another vaccine.

    Like

  57. Kelly
    December 26, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Ultimately it is up to the parents to decide if they want to take a chance on damagiing their child for life or believing what the medical industry says and going with the recommended vaccine program. I just read a letter yesterday from a mother who said she had a friend who was a vaccine refuser, and she thought she was wacko and was endangering her children by not getting them vaccinated. But then her own child reacted to a vaccine with autism and other disabilities, and she says that now the joke’s on her, her friend’s children are healthy while hers is permanently disabled.

    The mother is making the same mistake, you have made. Autism is not a vaccine reaction.

    Most scientists are not busily engaged in figuring out how to differentiate coincidental occurences related to vaccines from causal ones: there’s too much money involved for Big Pharma.

    The pharma shill gambit again. A search of Pubmed would see that there are active investigations into causation of adverse reactions. IOM reviewed over a 1000 papers recently – http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2011/Adverse-Effects-of-Vaccines-Evidence-and-Causality.aspx

    So why did it (HepB vaccine) continue to be given to all newborns?

    The reasons for the birth dose of HBV vaccines can be found here: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5416a1.htm?s_cid=rr5416a1_e

    This document also corrects the other misinformation about the HBV vaccine.

    It’s silly to say the hep-B vaccine never causes encephalitis, when there’s so much evidence that it does. And it’s silly to say the encephalopathy caused by encephalitis is not the same as the encephalopathy known as autism. Hundreds of thousands of us are saying that it is the same, and we have the vaccine-damaged children to prove it.

    If there is so much evidence, why don’t you present it? What’s silly is to redefine medical terminology to fit your agenda.

    The last sentence is a logical fallacy called “appeal to popularity”. Just because supposedly hundreds of thousands of people believe as you do, cia, doesn’t mean you are right.

    To say that the side effects listed in the package inserts are not necessarily caused by the vaccine is disingenuous. It means that a number of people have reported that they occurred to them shortly after receipt of the vaccine.

    It is disingenuous to say that events reported after vaccination are caused by that vaccine. To assume that a temporal correlation equals causation is a logical fallacy. Observations of adverse events can lead to further studies which can prove causation, if it exists. These types of studies do occur even though you are ignorant of them.

    The safety trials for vaccines are a farce: they never compare those who are vaccinated with an unvaccinated control group, only to a group which has gotten another vaccine or the same vaccine at different dosages or intervals. They eliminate from their trial patients who are not in the best of health, even though these patients are ultimately given the vaccine regardless of their poor health. If a patient reacts badly to the first vaccine in a series, they eliminate that patient from the final tally of results.

    Safety trials are a farce to you, cia because you don’t understand how science works. You are proposing a lower quality of investigation which would be more flawed than how you see the current system.

    Like

  58. cia parker
    December 27, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Kelly:
    You asked about evidence as to the danger of the hep-B vaccine.
    First, VAERS reports. Even though many of you say that they should be viewed with caution, you are wearing blinkers if you don’t regard them as at least statistically relevant, and also view the vaccines with caution.
    160271: a 4-month old boy received the hepatitis B vaccine, developed acute diarrhea, went into a coma, and died that evening.
    49808: a 4-month old girl received the hepatitis B shot, developed a bleeding disorder, encephalitis, and abnormal liver function. She died 3 days later.
    107120: a 5-month-old boy received the hepatitis B vaccine, developed a fever, and died of sudden infant death syndrome the following day.
    76188: a 6-month old girl received the hepatits B vaccine, developed diarrhea, bleeding lesions, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and died 2 days later.
    179608: a 6-month old girl received the hepatitis B vaccine and developed “severe neurological sequelae”8 hours later. She was hospitalized with apnea, convulsions, cerebral edema, fontanelle bulging, and psychomotor retardation.
    49035: a 7-month-old girl received the hepatiits B vaccine, developed a cerebral hemmorrhage and died 4 days later.
    114934: a 7-month old boy received the hepatitis B shot, slept 16 hours, then had delayed psychomotor developemtn and mental retardation.
    160183: a 9-month old baby received the hepaitis B vaccine (Engerix-B) and died 18 hours later.
    180302: s 10-month old girl received the hep B shot , developed a bacterial infection, bronhiolitis, went into a coma, and died the next day.
    74126: a 10-month old girl received the hep B vacine, developed liver cancer one month later, and died from her condition.
    173745: a 1 1/2 year old girl received the hep B vaccine and later that evening was found dead with profuse bleeding from her mouth and nose.
    212894: a 3-year old girl received the hep B vaccine and developed juvenile onset diabetes mellitus 25 days later.

    Case reports by parents: “our 6-year old son became ill after his first dose of hep B vaccine. He had a fever of 103 degrees for five days. After his second dose he had a fever taht did not go away. Three months later he was diagnosed with rheumatic fever. One month later his blood couts dropped and he was rediagnosed with A.L.L. leukemia.”

    “My little boy was injured by a hep B vaccine given to him when he was only three days old. The adverse reaction was so severe that he had an aneurysm rupture in his brain. He has many complications and is severely brain damaged. His life was taken from him. He has seizure disorder, epilepsy, cortical blindness, a feeding tube, and is immobile.”

    “Our daughter was born healthy but received the hepatitis B vaccine, and at three days old she started having seizures. After a week in the local children’s hospital, it was discovered that she had suffered a stroke.”

    “After our son was born, they injected him with hep B vaccine. He immediately suffered a seven minute seizure. Now our son has sensory integration dysfunction.”

    “Our son was born six weeks premature and reacted badly to his shots of hep B. After the first, he cried and had a head circumference growth of 4.25 cm in four days. After the second shot he stopped breathing. He had brain swelling, bleeding in the brain and behind the eyes. He has multiple problems from this. I did not know about vaccine damage before it happened to us.”

    Remember that before the vaccine, there were often only five children a year diagnosed with hepatitis B, babies and children are at close to no risk of getting it unless their mother is positive, and protection wears off in just a few years. What parent reading these VAERS reports would still want the shot?

    Hadler, SC, et al. “Long-term immunogenicity and effiacy of hep B vaccine in homosexual men.”New England Journal of Medicine (July 24, 1986); Vol. 315:209-214.After just five years the hep B antibody levels declined sharply or no longer existed in 42% of the vaccine recipients. In addition, 34 of the 773 subjects (4.4%) became infected with the virus.
    (This paragraph should go at the bottom, I don’t know why it’s here, but the computer won’t let me move it down.) Judy Converse, one of those who testified before the subcongressional committee, has a son whose reaction to the hep-B vaccine at birth (also given without asking permission) was a lot like my daughter’s: shrill, long-lasting inconsolable screaming (encephalitis) and subsequent autism. He also had severe bowel disease, which my daughter fortunately did not have. She wrote a book about her experience, When your Doctor is Wrong: Hepatitis B Vaccine and Autism. She says: “No doubt most everyone touting the hepatitis B vaccine for infants thinks it’s the right thing to do. But I do believe that those individuals sustain a bias on this issue. Perhaps the financial incentives to use this shot are too great. Maybe it’s just easier to believe the rhetoric given by our health agencies. Or beliefs about vaccines are probably just too deeply entrenched to allow truthful investigation. It’s easy to be biased when we hear that some ten million doses of this vaccine have been given and there are only 40,000 reported reactions. But even that conservative estimate places injury incidence from the shot at 4 per 1000, which is well beyond hepatitis B virus case incidence (0.026 cases per thousand). In case you were dozing off right there, what that says is that your chances of reacting adversely to the vaccine are 158 times higher than your chances of getting the virus itself. If your pediatrician is confident that the risk of a reaction is small, he or she is wrong. It is greater than the risk of the infection itself, even for adults.” (187)

    Hernán, M.A., et al. “Recombinant hepatitis B vaccine and the risk of multiple sclerosis: a prospective study.”Neurology 2004; 63: 838-842. Hepatitis B vaccine is associated with a statistically significant elevated risk of multiple sclerosis.

    (This is interesting to me, because I reacted to the MMR with multiple sclerosis, a disease which did not exist before the smallpox vaccine began to be used two hundred years ago.)

    Yann, M., et al. “Hepatitis B vaccine and the risk of CNS inflammatory demyelination in childhood.”Neurology (October 8, 2008). (published online)
    Ness, JM, e al. “Hepatitis B vaccines and pediatric multiple sclerosis. Does timing or type mater?”Neurology (December 17, 2008). (published online) Two new studies showing statistically significant correlations between hep B vaccination in chldren and the development of pediatric multiple sclerosis (central nervous system demyelination) more than three years later.

    Classen, John Barthelow. “Childhood immunisation and diabetes mellitus,” New Zealand Medical Journal (May 24, 1996):195.
    Classen, J.B. “The diabetes epidemic and the hep B vaccine.” New Zealand Medical Journal (May 24, 1996):366.
    Classen, J.B. “Hepatitis B vaccine: helping or hurting public health?”Congressional Tesimony. Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources; Committee on Govt. Reform (Wash., DC: May 18, 1999.
    In the three years after a hep-B vaccine campaign began in New Zealand, there was a 60 percent increase in cases of childhood diabetes.

    This subcommittee hearing was the one a year before my daughter was born, that concluded that the hep-B vaccine was so dangerous a moratorium should be placed on its use. But they gave it to my daughter without even asking permission, causing her encephalitis and subsequent autism.

    France stopped their program of giving the hep-B vaccine to schoolchildren in 1998 after it caused multiple sclerosis in so many of them.

    Like

  59. cia parker
    December 27, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    From Mayer Eisenstein’s Make an Informed Vaccine Decision, p. 152.
    “The clinical studies used to assess the safety of the current hepatitis B vaccine were comprised of just 147 healthy infants and children who were monitored fdor just 5 days after each shot. This is not a large enough sample nor long enough time period to determine true rates of adverse events. In fact, the manufacturer admits that ‘broad use of the vaccine could reveal adverse reactions not observed n clinical trials.’ Adult test subjects were monitored for only 5 days after each shot as well. (Merck & Co., Inc. “Recombivax HB Hepatits B Vaccine (Recombinatn).”Product insert from the vaccine manfacturere (Issued: December 2007).
    The manufacturer lists several serious adverse reactions that have been reported after the hepatitis B vaccine was licensed and mass marketed. These include multiple sclerosis, transverse myelitis, arthritis, lupus, Guillain-Barré syndrome, thrombocytopenia (a serious blood clotting disorder), seizures, peripheral neuropathy, Bell’s palsy, radiculopathy, encephalitis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, eczema, alopecia, anaphylaxis, bronchilal spasms, herpes zoster, tachycardia, optic neuritis, visual disturbances, and hearing disorders.
    Although official fact sheets and other public endorsements of the hepatitis B vaccine minimize or deny serious reactions, numerous studies published in medical and scientific journals throughout the world, plus frequent reports filed with the FDA’s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), confirm these and other aflictions following hepatitis B vaccination.”
    The hepatitis B vaccine has had more adverse event reports filed on it than on all other vaccines combined.
    Kelly, if you want to get your baby the hep-B vaccine, I guess it’s your right, though I feel sorry for a baby who has such a reckless mother. It’s very unfortunate if you have been instrumental in persuading even one parent to get the vaccine for their child, and I can only hope that I may be instrumental in persuading other parents to refuse to damage their children with this vaccine.

    Like

  60. Kelly
    December 27, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    You asked about evidence as to the danger of the hep-B vaccine.
    First, VAERS reports. Even though many of you say that they should be viewed with caution, you are wearing blinkers if you don’t regard them as at least statistically relevant, and also view the vaccines with caution.

    No, cia parker. VAERS reports are not statistically relevant. May I remind you of the page you agreed to before viewing the VAERS reports: “When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.” http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index

    Remember that before the vaccine, there were often only five children a year diagnosed with hepatitis B, babies and children are at close to no risk of getting it unless their mother is positive, and protection wears off in just a few years. What parent reading these VAERS reports would still want the shot?

    Perhaps you should read the material before stating another bit of misinformation, cia parker? “Before hepatitis B vaccination programs became routine in the United States, an estimated 30%–40% of chronic infections are believed to have resulted from perinatal or early childhood transmission, even though <10% of reported cases of hepatitis B occurred in children aged 10 mIU/mL.”

    The evidence of adverse effects caused by HBV vaccine is reviewed here: http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2011/Adverse-Effects-of-Vaccines-Evidence-and-Causality.aspx

    And again with the pharma shill gambit. Really cia parker. Read the information provided before demonstrating your clear lack of understanding in this matter.

    Like

  61. Kelly
    December 27, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Mayer Eisenstein is seriously misinformed. From the CDC link that you obviously didn’t bother to read: “Hepatitis B vaccine is available as a single-antigen formulation and also in fixed combination with other vaccines. Two single-antigen vaccines are available in the United States: Recombivax HB® (Merck & Co., Inc., Whitehouse Station, New Jersey) and Engerix-B® (GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals, Rixensart, Belgium). Of the three licensed combination vaccines, one (Twinrix® [GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals, Rixensart, Belgium]) is used for vaccination of adults, and two (Comvax® [Merck & Co., Inc., Whitehouse Station, New Jersey] and Pediarix® [GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals, Rixensart, Belgium]) are used for vaccination of infants and young children. Twinrix contains recombinant HBsAg and inactivated hepatitis A virus. Comvax contains recombinant HBsAg and Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) polyribosylribitol phosphate conjugated to Neisseria meningitidis outer membrane protein complex. Pediarix contains recombinant HBsAg, diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis adsorbed (DTaP), and inactivated poliovirus (IPV).”

    Package inserts for licensed products can be found here: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm093830.htm

    1. Eisenstein reports the numbers for Recombivax, probably because it makes his case better, but he has ignored the testing on the other vaccines.

    2. “In 36 clinical studies, a total of 13,495 doses of ENGERIX-B were administered to 5,071 healthy adults and children who were initially seronegative for hepatitis B markers, and healthy neonates.”

    3. “In clinical trials involving the administration of 7918 doses of COMVAX to 3561 healthy infants 6 weeks to 15 months of age, COMVAX was generally well tolerated.”

    4. “A total of 23,849 doses of PEDIARIX have been administered to 8,088 infants who received one or more doses as part of the 3-dose series during 14 clinical studies.

    And again, the package inserts do not indicate causation. Only that this event happened after vaccination.

    And again, VAERS reports do not indicate causation.

    I think the definition of reckless is to be willfully ignorant of information and intentionally leave your child susceptible to potentially dangerous diseases. I doubt you are instrumental in persuading other parents to refuse vaccines because I have very easily shown that everything you type is completely false.

    My goal isn’t to persuade others to get the vaccine. They have to make that decision for themselves. My goal is to show how the anti-vaccine position is based on misinformation, misconception and logical fallacies. Thanks for making that really easy for me, cia parker.

    Like

  62. Kelly
    December 27, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    Here is another reference for you cia parker. This one is the WHO’s position paper on HepB vaccine.

    Despite numerous long-term studies, there is no evidence of serious adverse events that have been causally linked to hepatitis B vaccination.

    http://www.who.int/wer/2009/wer8440.pdf

    Like

  63. cia parker
    December 27, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    Have you read the chapter in Dr. Robert Sears’ The Vaccine Book about how the medical establishment just decided to inflate estimated numbers of infected individuals by at least a hundred times in order to justify this very destructive vaccine program? They had absolutely no basis in fact for the numbers they cited.

    So if your child is damaged by a vaccine, where would you go to make sure it’s on the record to perhaps reduce similar damage in the future? There is no place other than VAERS. I understand that you would like to silence all of us who are vaccine-damaged ourselves or have vaccine-damaged children, but I would imagine you might be able to understand why we are not going to go along with just having our lives devastated and lying protrate in abject silence for the rest of our lives. Or perhaps not.

    Like

  64. cia parker
    December 27, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    Kelly,
    If it upsets you too much to hear about any of the more than 50,000 adverse event reports to the VAERS to the hep-B vaccine, or the thousand deaths, let me just mention some other studies published in medical journals:

    Tudela, P., Marti, S., Bonal, J. Systemic lupus erythematosus and vaccination against hepatitis B. Nephron 1992;62:236. A 43-year-old woman developed swelling of both legs two weeks after a first dose of HBV. Laboratory tests were consistent with systemic lupus erythematosus.

    Poullin, P., Gabriel, B. Thrombocytopenic purpura after recombinant hepatitis B vaccine. Lancet 1994;344:1293. A 15-year old girl and a 21-year old woman developed isolated thrombocytopenic purpura and enlarged spleen four/three weeks after receiving the third/second dose of HBV.This is an autoimmune condition causing bleeding into the skin, mucous membranes, and other organs due to decreased blood platelets required for clotting.

    Martínez, E., Domingo, P. Evan’s syndome triggered by recombinant hepatitis B vaccine. Clinical Infectious Diseases 1992;15:1051.A 33-year old man developed acute abdominal pain, multiple inflamed joints in his hands and feet, chills, and fever two days after HBV vaccination. Blood tests showed decreased platelets and anemia caused by an autoimmune mechanism. This combination of hemolytic anemia and thrombocytopenia in the same patient is extremely unusual.

    Shaw, F.E., Graham, D.J., Guess, H.A., Milstien, J.B. et al. Postmarketing surveillance for neurologic adverse events reported after hepatitis B vaccination: Experience of the first three years. American Journal of Epidemiology 1988;127:337-352. This study identified nine cases of GBS that occurred within seven weeks of a hepatitis B vaccine dose. The rate of GBS incidence in the vaccine group proved to be significantly higher than the background incidence in the general population.

    Herroelen, L., DeKeyser, J., Ebinger, G. Central-nervous-system demyelination after immunisation with recombinant hepatitis B vaccine. Lancet 1991;338:1174-1175. A 28-year-old woman developed muscular weakness and partial paralysis six weeks after receiving HBV. A diagnostic MRI revealed hyperintense lesions in the white matter of the left cerebral hemisphere, indicating multiple sclerosis. A follow-up MRI revealed extension of this lesion, and an additional area of demyelination. At three months she remained partially paralyzed.

    Waisbren, B.A. A commentary regarding personal observations of demyelinizing disease caused by viral vaccines, borrelia infections, and proteolytic enzymes. Paper submitted to the Vaccine Safety Committee, Institute of Medicine, Washington, DC, August 11, 1992. Two cases of multiple sclerosis were reported to the Institute of Medicine in 32-year-old and 37-year-old women who developed symptoms three and two weeks following HBV.

    Do you want some studies on the HBV and diabetes? I don’t have time to cite any more tonight, but I’ll do it tomorrow if you’d be interested in learning about them.

    I mentioned earlier today that France became the first country to stop hepatitis B vaccination requirements for schoolchildren after reports of chronic arthritis, symptoms resembling multiple sclerosis, and other serious health problems following hepatitis B vaccination became so numerous that the Health Minister of France suspended the school requirement. A French court ruled that there was sufficient evidence to conclude there was a connection between a vaccine produced by British drug maker SmithKline Beecham and multiple sclerosis symptoms. The French government consequetntly compensated three recipients of hepatitis B vaccine for their development of MS.

    (Thanks to Randall Neustaedter and Cynthia Cournoyer for the documentation offered in their books.)

    Again, you, Tracy, are free to get as many vaccines as you wish, please let me encourage you to get several hep-Bs for maximum protection. But I’m sure you’ll realize that most people on reading only a little of this will resolve never to get it for themselves or their children. And didn’t you know that the WHO and the CDC are the bad guys in this fight for children’s lives?

    Like

  65. Kelly
    December 27, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    Geez cia, is there an anti-vaccine book you haven’t read? How about looking at the real data instead of an uneducated interpretation of it?

    I’m not trying to eliminate VAERS. You are absolutely right in that is the place to go to report an adverse event after vaccination. What you don’t seem to understand is that VAERS only records events that occurred after vaccination. You cannot determine causation from these reports, thus saying these reports are made about vaccine-injured individuals are premature. You believe your child’s autism was caused by the HepB vaccine, but there is no evidence to support that claim. For all I know, you don’t even have a child. You can share your beliefs all you want, but smart parents know that beliefs do not hold a lot of weight compared to the amount of evidence that shows those beliefs to be false. As you said, parents should look at the evidence and not follow what other people believe.

    Like

  66. Kelly
    December 27, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Cia, please read the IOM report on adverse events that I cited earlier.

    What you have listed are case reports, not studies. They are no different than the case reports from VAERS.

    I know you really, really, really want to believe that the HepB vaccine lissome evil entity being promoted by pharma shills, but this is simply not true. Over and over again you have demonstrated your ignorance on the topic and you have willfully ignored the evidence that proves you wrong. You ignore the serious harm of HBV infections. You ignore that no deaths have been caused by the HepB vaccine. You just repeat what your anti-vax gurus tell you because they confirm your beliefs and you lack the ability to think for yourself.

    Like

  67. Kelly
    December 27, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    Cia, your anti-vax gurus lied to you again. France suspended the program due to political pressure not because of scientific evidence. France does vaccinate infants and adults against HBV.
    http://www.who.int/inf-pr-1998/en/pr98-67.html

    Like

  68. Kelly
    December 27, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    Here’s another link that discredits everything cia Parker has claimed about the HepB vaccine.

    http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/immu/immu10.html

    Like

  69. Kelly
    December 27, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    And cia, here is a French study that actually demonstrates no increased risk of MS due to the HepB vaccine.
    http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/161/12/1176

    Guess even the French scientists would say your claims are bogus, eh CIA?

    Like

  70. cia parker
    December 28, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Nathan,
    It is silly to say that autism has always existed at the current rates. Dr. Leo Kanner in 1943 in his first case study, when he coined the term autism, said it was a condition that had never before been seen or described. If there were always one in eighty-eight people with this condition, someone would have noticed it. (Sorry, I blush to say something that stupid, but you appear to believe it.) When I was a child in the 1960s and 1970s, no one had ever heard of any such thing, no one even spoke in whispers of weird children institutionalized and never heard from. I was one of thirteen cousins, all of us were normal. My daughter reacted to vaccines and is autisitic, my brother has an autistic son, and one of my cousins has a daughter institutionalized for autism. If it has always existed, then why had no one heard of it until Rainman in the ’80s? It was very rare then, and only became common enough for every school to have autistic students now, and every family knows someone who has it, in the last twenty years, since the MMR and hep-B vaccines. The pertussis vaccine started the ball rolling in the 1930, but it was rare then. Eight years ago the rate of diagnosed autism was one in 150, and at that time, when my daughter was small, all the magazines and news broadcasts were talking about it, and in 2000, when she was born, it was routine to screen for developmental delay. The rate is now one in 88 in Missouri, about double what it was eight years ago. It is not because of better diagnosis, the diagnosis has been the same for many years, the rate is rising because of the insane vaccine schedule. The principal of my daughter’s school said two years ago that there were four autistic children there out of seven hundred, but by one year ago, she said that their school was keeping pace with state-wide rates, and there were then eight autistic children there. It is not true that three years ago autistic children were not noticed or diagnosed, it is true that rates are continuing to rise with more and more children given more and more shots. The first generation of Prevnar babies caused a spike several years ago, but now more are getting the misguided flu vaccine, and now they want babies to take the meningococcal vaccine, and we all know what the results of that are going to be.
    One of several measles vaccines began to be given in the 1960s (I, fortunately, was in the last cohort to get the natural disease). A killed measles virus vaccine was pulled from the market for causing dangerous atypical measles. It was not combined the rubella and mumps vaccine in the MMR until the late ’80s.
    How dare you say that they would not have given my baby the hep-B vaccine without my permission? They should not have done, but they did, and it was routine for them to do so. I went to Dr. Douglas Boudreau in Jefferson, City, Missouri, in April 2000, just to tell him it was very important to me that she not get that vaccine, as I had read it often caused autism. He agreed, though he thought it was a needless worry. He forgot to tell the staff at the hospital, Capital Region Medical Center in Jefferson City, and when my baby was born May 5, 2000, they gave her the vaccine without asking me. When the nurse came in and told me, and I reacted in shock, she said disapprovingly, “Oh, don’t worry, she won’t be protected against hepatitis B until she gets the whole series.” Dr. Boudreau came in later that day and apologized for having forgotten to tell them I didn’t want it. And she reacted just as I had feared. No one asked me if there were a history of vaccine reaction or neurological or autoimmune disease in my family (there is). No one gave me a list of vaccine reactions to look out for. Please feel free to contact these sources and I’ll give you a release if you want to ask them to show you a permission form I signed. There is none, but you can ask.
    To blithely say that many babies have long-lasting, inconsolable crying is the height of irresponsibility. The Merck Manual defines encephalitis as being a possible result of vaccines. High-pitched, inconsolable crying (le cri encéphalique) lasting three hours or more is a symptom of encephalitis. Dr. Robert Sears says that encephalitis is a not uncommon reaction to vaccines, but that it doesn’t usually do permanent damage. Unfortunately, sometimes it does, and it often causes autism. My baby cried all night and all day, ten hours in a row before sleeping for two hours, then waking to cry again, same pattern from Tuesday evening, May 9 (she was born at dawn, May 5) to Saturday afternoon, May 13. To say, lah-dee-dah, that’s babies for you, cry, cry, cry, who cares? shows that your desire to defend vaccines is so all-consuming that you have lost all concern for the children involved. Shouldn’t you even say that the pediatrician should have ordered a brain scan to look for swelling? Or do you just want people to look away from the causes of autism?
    This was routine, to give the hep-B vaccine without asking permission. Judy Converse’s baby reacted with encephalitis just as my baby did, and she didn’t realize for months that they had given the hep-B vaccine to her baby without asking permission.
    When I have time, I’ll look up the document on the sub-congressional hearing, but you could google it very easily. It was the subcommittee on criminal justice, drug policy and human resources; committee on government reform (Washington, DC: May 18, 1999).
    I am writing all this for the sake of the general reader. I understand very well that you have a financial interest in promoting vaccines, and care nothing about those of us who have been damaged by them.

    Like

  71. Kelly
    December 28, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    It is not because of better diagnosis, the diagnosis has been the same for many years, the rate is rising because of the insane vaccine schedule.

    Citation needed. Anecdotes are not evidence, cia. And repeating the same thing over and over again, doesn’t make it true. Your repeated insistence on ignoring evidence that disproves your position shows your desire to vilify vaccines no matter what the evidence says. You have presented absolutely no evidence that your daughter was damaged by the HepB vaccine. You have presented no evidence that the HepB vaccine could even possibly cause this type of injury. This is your fantasy and you wonder why others dismiss you.

    And again you finish up with the pharma shill gambit, which is probably the biggest red flag that there is no merit to your position whatsoever.

    Like

  72. cia parker
    December 28, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    Kelly and Nathan,
    I realized that no one would say things as outrageous as you do, and deny that vaccines ever damage anyone, unless you were paid to do so. I think you should ask yourselves what it profiteth a man should he gain the whole world and he lose his soul. I’m not going to deal with people as low as you any more.

    Like

  73. Kelly
    December 28, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Yo, cia! Strawman! I do not deny that vaccines never damaged anyone and I’m not paid to defend vaccines.

    Are you even capable of typing a true statement? Everything you have posted on this blog has been wrong. Doesn’t that bother you? You should ask yourself why you continue to spread misinformation and advocate placing children in harm’s way. I am relieved that you have finally decided to stop posting here, but I’m sure you’ll appear somewhere else saying the exact same things that you know are false to mislead other parents. I’ve seen your comment on this newspaper article and you were told you were wrong there too. http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/idahos-epidemic-of-fear-vaccination-liberation-movement-takes-a-shot-at-public-health/Content?oid=2562103

    And the inability to provide evidence to back your statements and instead resort to your religious beliefs is duly noted. That has been my point all along. Your position is based on on nothing more than fantasy.

    Like

  74. Nathan
    December 29, 2011 at 3:13 am

    Hi again, Cia.

    It is silly to say that autism has always existed at the current rates.

    It’s sillier to deny the massive and more inclusive changes in autism diagnosis that have occurred in the last 30 years. Dishonest, even.

    Dr. Leo Kanner in 1943 in his first case study, when he coined the term autism, said it was a condition that had never before been seen or described.

    I’d love a link for that. Autism may have been first popularly described by Kanner in regards to the disorder we are now more familiar with (though the term autism was coined decades before by Eugen Bleuler), yet this does not mean that it had never existed before. History is rife with examples of individuals displaying behaviors consistent with ASDs.

    If there were always one in eighty-eight people with this condition, someone would have noticed it.

    We did. We just called it other stuff. And where is your one in 88 stat coming from. In case you haven’t noticed, all autism is not the same. As I have heard it said “If you have met one person with autism, you have met one person with autism.”

    Sorry, I blush to say something that stupid, but you appear to believe it.)

    I hope you are blushing again over making such a simple error as misreporting who coined the term “autism.”

    When I was a child in the 1960s and 1970s, no one had ever heard of any such thing, no one even spoke in whispers of weird children institutionalized and never heard from. I was one of thirteen cousins, all of us were normal.

    None of this has any actual bearing on the incidence of autism in the 1960’s and 70’s. I didn’t know of any miscarriages when I was a kid. Doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. People don’t usually talk about things like miscarriages and not-yet-well-understood developmental disorders to children.

    My daughter reacted to vaccines and is autisitic, my brother has an autistic son, and one of my cousins has a daughter institutionalized for autism. If it has always existed, then why had no one heard of it until Rainman in the ’80s?

    They obviously had. You just said it was described by Kaner in the 40’s. What gives? I’m sorry, but just because you had never heard about autism until Rain Man doesn’t mean no one had. I had.

    It was very rare then, and only became common enough for every school to have autistic students now, and every family knows someone who has it, in the last twenty years, since the MMR and hep-B vaccines.

    We went over this earlier. Did you read what I said about the MMR vaccine? In widespread use waaay before the increase in diagnosis of autism.

    The pertussis vaccine started the ball rolling in the 1930, but it was rare then.

    Hey, you are just making stuff up again. This is not becoming.

    Eight years ago the rate of diagnosed autism was one in 150, and at that time, when my daughter was small, all the magazines and news broadcasts were talking about it, and in 2000, when she was born, it was routine to screen for developmental delay. The rate is now one in 88 in Missouri, about double what it was eight years ago.

    Again, a citation for those numbers would be great. It’s important to use consistent sources for autism rates.

    It is not because of better diagnosis, the diagnosis has been the same for many years, the rate is rising because of the insane vaccine schedule.

    No, it’s not from the vaccines. There is a lot of research that shows it is not from the vaccines. Why do you think that the diagnosis and surveillance of autism has not changed in the last decade? There are many factors that affect the diagnosis rates of autism and it is not as cut and dried as you want to think it is.

    The principal of my daughter’s school said two years ago that there were four autistic children there out of seven hundred, but by one year ago, she said that their school was keeping pace with state-wide rates, and there were then eight autistic children there. It is not true that three years ago autistic children were not noticed or diagnosed, it is true that rates are continuing to rise with more and more children given more and more shots.

    Wait, what changes in the shot schedule happened two years ago in that district in a single year that would have caused such a huge surge in autism rates? Seriously now. You are actually presenting evidence against vaccines as a cause.

    The first generation of Prevnar babies caused a spike several years ago, but now more are getting the misguided flu vaccine, and now they want babies to take the meningococcal vaccine, and we all know what the results of that are going to be.

    Yeah, less dead children from meningitis. I do hope you are not against that. Or dead infants from pneumococcal disease or influenza.

    How dare you say that they would not have given my baby the hep-B vaccine without my permission? They should not have done, but they did, and it was routine for them to do so.

    I didn’t say that at all! They absolutely should not have given any baby any vaccine without a parent signing for it!! What part of what I said gave you the opposite impression? I am however, surprised that a hospital would not require a parent to sign for a vaccine. This is extremely poor practice. I am, as I said, in agreement with you that this is wrong. It does not, however, have anything to do with whether the vaccine causes autism. It does not.

    To blithely say that many babies have long-lasting, inconsolable crying is the height of irresponsibility.

    But it’s true. Many do. With or without vaccines. I don’t mean to say that crying is never an indication of something more serious, it certainly can be. However, it does not readily mean “vaccine-induced encephalits” as you seem to want to believe.

    The Merck Manual defines encephalitis as being a possible result of vaccines. High-pitched, inconsolable crying (le cri encéphalique) lasting three hours or more is a symptom of encephalitis.

    But not the definition of encephalitis. Certainly, if you have encephalitis, you would cry severly, but encephalitis also has other symptoms. Crying for three hours or more is also a hallmark of colic, and is not encephalitis. And encephalitis is not caused by hepatitis vaccine, according to the science. Especially coming four days after the vaccine. Here, BTW, is one of the studies demonstrating that newborns who receive the hepatitis B vaccine, do not have any more problems that children who do not.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11734710?dopt=Abstract

    Dr. Robert Sears says that encephalitis is a not uncommon reaction to vaccines, but that it doesn’t usually do permanent damage.

    Frankly, Dr. Robert Sears is an opportunist with a popular personality, and despite writing a book on the subject, poorly educated about vaccines. Encephalitis is an extremely rare reaction to only certain vaccines, occurring in less than one in a million doses of the MMR.

    Unfortunately, sometimes it does, and it often causes autism.

    Since encephalitis (which does not mean autism) only occurs in less than one in a million doses, it certainly doesn’t do anything of the sort often. Wild measles caused encephalitis around one thousand times more frequently. So vaccines are preventing a whole lot of encephalitis. Which again, does not mean autism.

    My baby cried all night and all day, ten hours in a row before sleeping for two hours, then waking to cry again, same pattern from Tuesday evening, May 9 (she was born at dawn, May 5) to Saturday afternoon, May 13. To say, lah-dee-dah, that’s babies for you, cry, cry, cry, who cares?

    Thats not what I said. However, I don’t see why you blame the vaccine given many days eariler when apparently there was quite a lot of days of not crying in between. There may well have been something wrong causing all the crying. Certainly not all inconsolible crying is normal, and you child’s may not have been. I personally would absolutely seek medical care for my child under those circumstances. I am not in a position to evaluate the appropriateness that your child received at the time.

    But you have provided no evidence that it was vaccine related. And there is a wealth of studies on large numbers of babies showing that severe reactions are far less common than the bad outcomes of the diseases. This continues to be the crux of the matter, and is something that can only be addressed by science, not anecdotes. So, I invite you to support your position with science.

    shows that your desire to defend vaccines is so all-consuming that you have lost all concern for the children involved.

    Watch a child die from influenza, as I have, then tell me that again.

    Shouldn’t you even say that the pediatrician should have ordered a brain scan to look for swelling?

    I cannot begin to speculate as to the proper actions of the doctor; I was not there. I don’t want any child to suffer, and I am very sorry that you and your child had that experience. However, you are asserting that encephalitis is caused by hepatitis B vaccine. The science on the matter that I have seen demonstrates that this is not the case. If you have evdience to the contrary, actual data, not a quote that something was once reported and in a package insert, I would like you to provide the link.

    Or do you just want people to look away from the causes of autism?

    I want people to look towards the cause of autism. Continuing to harp on vaccines as the cause of autism, when studies have clearly shown that they are not, diverts resources away from finding out what could actually be the cause(s) of autism.

    When I have time, I’ll look up the document on the sub-congressional hearing, but you could google it very easily. It was the subcommittee on criminal justice, drug policy and human resources; committee on government reform (Washington, DC: May 18, 1999).

    I tried to Google it the first time. I Googled it again using these new search terms. The hearing is not hard to find, but I have not found this moratorium recommendation you claimed.

    BTW, if you can’t actually provide a link for your claims, perhaps you should not make the claims.

    I am writing all this for the sake of the general reader. I understand very well that you have a financial interest in promoting vaccines, and care nothing about those of us who have been damaged by them.

    No, Cia, I hate to burst your bubble, but I have no financial interest in “promoting” vaccines. I have an interest in protecting the well being of children, who are killed or hurt by vaccine preventable diseases, and one of my contributions is to correct vaccine-related misinformation of the kind you are spreading, also for the sake of the general reader.

    Like

  75. Nathan
    December 29, 2011 at 3:41 am

    Yeah, not sure how she can make the claim that I “deny that vaccines ever damage anyone” when I said earlier,

    Vaccine damage is well recognized. It is so well studied that we have estimates how often it occurs. It occurs several orders of magnitude less than damage from vaccine-preventable diseases.

    Like

  76. Kelly
    December 30, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Sure enough, cia parker is found a day later on Science-Based Medicine making the same claims that were fully debunked here. And sure enough, she is told she is wrong on SBM too.

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/what-is-an-antivaxer/

    Like

  77. Chris
    December 30, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    I particularly enjoyed EricG’s reply.

    Sorry, I have too busy lately to correct Ms. Parker yet again. Though I did a more complete explanation of the VAERS use disclosure on SBM. I know I had already tried before, but she still does not seem to understand the issues with the database. (if you get a chance, do listen to the rant on VAERS in the podcast I linked to).

    Now it is time to finish putting away Christmas decorations and going up to pay tuition and buy books for my community college kids.

    Like

  78. karla paniagua
    September 28, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    Moms Who Vax :
    To any new parents out there reading this fine blog, vaccines are the most studied and safest “medication” the world has ever known. I’d be interested to know if anti-vaxxers like Steve above would refuse antibiotics to their desperately sick child, simply because antibiotics can be “dangerous” to a tiny segment of the population. There is a gap in logic here–antibiotics are actually far more likely to cause harmful side effects than vaccines. And yet if your child was suffering from bacterial pneumonia, it might be the only thing that saves her. Vaccine-preventable diseases are invisible until your child gets one; and by then, the vaccine is too late.

    Like

  79. karla paniagua
    September 29, 2012 at 12:20 am

    Moms Who Vax:

    According to whom “vaccines are the most studied and safest medication” according to pharmaceutical companies profiting out of hundreds of kids who have been injected with toxins, or acording to you?. Have you read, investigated, gotten informed by Medical Doctors who are opposed to vaccines?. If you only follow what pro -vaccines Medical Doctors tell you, you are not really informed.

    Yes, I will refuse antibiotics because when I have asked Medical Doctors if antibiotics will cure pneumonia, their answers were “no, it will not. Perhaps we need to fear less and study more our bodies natural repsonse to diseases. We need to trust that we have an innate ability to heal ourselves and to recover from any illness.

    Unfortunatelly since the introduction of vaccines, vaccines have not proven they are safe or really necessary. If you have researched well you would have seen the graphics that show that Polio and other diseases were on the decline by the time vaccines were introduced.

    I have to disagree with you about the gap of logic. There is no logic in thinking that a pure child, born healthy needs a toxoid in order to develope his own inmmunity. Furthermore, The most vaccinated kids we have in America this days, the most diseases we have. What logic do you use to explain this fact?

    I am going to give you my opinion. I believe that parents need to be more educated. Parents need to take control over their kids health rather than giving the doctor the right to drug or vaccinate their kids. Parents need to be more involved in their kids health.

    I have not seen any research out about kids who are eating Organic, free of pesticides, No GMO’s, No artificil colorants, NO fast food, NO frozen food, free of vaccines and drugs. If a research ever is done in a population of kids free of toxicity I doubt the results will show unhealthy.

    We have to be honest as parents and reflect about what am I feeding my children today? what drug (medication) I am giving him/her in regular basis? How many times have I introduced on his healthy body thimerosal, aborted fetal cells, aluminum adjuvant?.

    Unvaccinated kids have not contributed to the increase of pertusis, the highest incident disease was among previously vaccinated children.

    We need to get the real facts before we blame those parents who based on a very informed choice decided not to vaccinate.

    I feel fortunate to have met so many parents who have approached me to tell me their very sad stories about how their beautiful kids went from being healthy to developing Autism. It all happened right after vaccines. Perhaps it is a big coincidence they all got Autism after vaccinating? We will never know till the Research linking vaccines to diseases continue, and do not stop to give us an “inconclusive” for an answer..

    Like

  80. Chris
    September 29, 2012 at 12:27 am

    Karla Paniagua:

    The most vaccinated kids we have in America this days, the most diseases we have. What logic do you use to explain this fact?

    How do we know it is a “fact”? What evidence have you given us? All I see are your opinions. You are welcome to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.

    Like

  81. May 8, 2013 at 7:27 am

    Ahaa, its fastidious conversation on the topic of this post here at
    this web site, I have read all that, so now me also commenting here.

    Like

  82. neutrino
    February 22, 2014 at 9:35 pm

    I like how no information, data, or facts are included in this article. Vaccines are poison. Please stop following empty rhetoric and go where the data leads. Your kids deserve you turning off the tv and doing some research instead of blindly trusting governments and media that are bought and paid for by pharmaceutical companies.

    Like

  83. Gray Falcon
    February 22, 2014 at 10:27 pm

    Neutrino, what facts do you have? The pharmaceutical companies would benefit heavily if people stopped vaccinating.

    Like

  84. novalox
    February 22, 2014 at 11:40 pm

    @neutrino

    [citation needed], necromancer.

    Like

  1. July 5, 2012 at 5:48 pm

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