Home > Get Involved, In the News, Parent Perspective, Preventable Diseases, Science & Research > Say #NoWayDrJay: Don’t Bring Measles Back

Say #NoWayDrJay: Don’t Bring Measles Back

March 31, 2014

The CDC has recently reported that the United States is experiencing a record number of measles cases this year with outbreaks spread from New York to California.  Despite the fact that measles was once declared eliminated in this country, 14 years later we’re on track for a record high year with 89 cases so far in 2014.

Due to various media outlets covering these outbreaks, we’ve begun receiving quite a few inquiries from concerned parents on our Vaccinate Your Baby Facebook page.  Some have infant children under one year of age who aren’t old enough for their first dose of measles vaccine.  Others have children who have yet to receive their second dose at age 4-6 years of age and they’re wondering if their children can be vaccinated earlier.  Others have children with medical conditions that prevent them from receiving the measles vaccine.  These children are completely dependent on others being vaccinated to help provide a protective community immunity and their parents are understandably concerned about these outbreaks.  Still others have fully vaccinated children, but are infuriated by the statements being made by irresponsible physicians that have tried to downplay the significance of the outbreaks and encourage vaccine refusal.

Last week we highlighted comments Dr. Bob Sears’ made on his Facebook page that suggested that measles infection was not dangerous.

Now we’ve seen a similar message from Dr. Jay Gordon, a well known pediatrician in Los Angeles, who sent this letter to his patients last week.

Greetings!

Our office has received a large number of phone calls and emails about measles.   There are 21 reported cases in Orange County.  I’m not aware of the number of cases in our immediate area. In July, 2014, we celebrate the 30th year at 901 Montana and we have never had a child in our office contract measles.  As many of you know, I use the MMR vaccine more sparingly than most pediatricians so I’m a bit surprised that the number is zero, but it is.

The media, as they often do, are covering this story quite heavily and the headlines make it appear that there is imminent great danger.  In fact, the last fatality from measles in the USA was eleven years ago in 2003. Headlines speak of “ten times more measles in 2014.”  The newspaper articles often don’t mention that California had very few cases of measles in the past five years so the 35 cases reported among 38,000,000 Californians is not a frighteningly large numerical jump.  There have been about 80 cases of measles in the United States this year.  All of these cases began with importation by travelers and then spread to close contacts.  Measles is unlikely to be spread by a brief encounter or sharing a BART train.

If you would like the MMR vaccine, please feel free to get it.  My personal reservations have nothing to do with Dr. Wakefield’s “Lancet” article and are not supported by published medical research.  These reservations are supported by observation and anecdotal evidence only.

The CDC defines outbreak as two cases spread from the same source.  The measles outbreak of 2014 does not pose a risk to your healthy child. Best, Jay

Jay Gordon, MD, FAAP

NoWayDrJayJulie Zwillich, a frustrated parent of two young vaccinated children contacted us, and various other media outlets, because she was very concerned about Dr. Gordon and other physicians

“who do great harm to children by espousing their ‘beliefs’ which are adherent to neither the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines nor those of the CDC”.

Her concern is echoed by other parents, including Maureen Kelly who wrote us saying:

I actually took my son to see “Dr. Jay” in 2008 (for a breastfeeding problem, he was an IBCLC.) I’ve been on his mailing list since then and was surprised to see this letter, which he also linked to on his Twitter feed. What shocked me the most was the statement that measles poses no risk to healthy children. It is my understanding that a small percentage of people who contract measles will be maimed or die. It is also my understanding that even an uncomplicated case of measles means a pretty miserable week or two. Since I have an infant who is too young to receive the MMR, I am concerned that he could become infected by an unvaccinated or under-vaccinated person. Flippant attitudes that make measles out to be “no big deal” or “no-risk” keep families from appropriately vaccinating or quarantining when a family member has symptoms. I also find it bizarre that “Dr. Jay” admits that his medical advice is not based on science or research. How can he appropriately treat children when he feels free to ignore evidence? It’s very disappointing to hear a physician speak this way about a serious and preventable illness.”

We realize that the majority of parents rely on sound medical advice and choose to vaccinate because of the overwhelming evidence that proves vaccines to be safe and effective.  However, it’s always concerning when doctors suggest there is little reason to be concerned about, or vaccinate, for measles.  After all, it wasn’t that long ago – just in the late 1980’s/early 1990s – that low immunization rates against measles in the U.S. were associated with an epidemic that resulted in about 11,000 hospitalizations and 120 deaths.  This is especially devastating when we consider that the measles vaccine is highly effective, with 95% of children developing immunity after one shot, and about 99% developing immunity after two shots.

The emphasis during these current outbreaks is obviously focused on informing those who are not adequately protected.  And that’s not just people who remain unvaccinated.  It’s also the possible 4% of vaccinated people who did not receive immunity from the vaccine.  And it also includes children less than a year old who are too young to be vaccinated and children less than 6 who may not have received their second dose yet.  Even adults vaccinated prior to the early 1990’s when the new two-dose recommendation went into effect may be at risk because they never received their second dose.  And we must warn people traveling to countries where there are endemic measles.  For instance, there have been more US travelers returning from the Philippines with measles in 2014 than any other destination and most of these imported case have been among unvaccinated children younger than 2 years of age.

In support of parents like Julie and Maureen who respect the science, I suggest we respond to Dr. Jay’s Twitter in much the same way we responded to Jenny McCarthy – by disagreeing with his advice and suggesting he consider recommendations based on science and research.  Send a tweet to  @JayGordonMDFAAP and use the hashtag #NoWayDrJay so that he can learn about the dangers of measles and the importance of vaccines.

 

 

  1. lilady
    March 31, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    I “don’t do Twitter”//sigh.

    Dr. David Gorski at the Science Based Medicine blog has a post up which analyzes the new CDC ASD prevalence report and Dr. Jay Gordon showed up to post a comment.

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/autism-prevalence-now-estimated-to-be-one-in-68-and-the-antivaccine-movement-goes-wild/#comment-207066

    I, in turn linked to this Shot of Prevention post.

    Dr. Gordon has a history of catering to anti-vaccine parents and his name is listed on Dr. Bob Sears’ list of hundreds of “Vaccine Friendly Doctors”.

    BTW, the current (March 22, 2014) MMWR issue states that there are 89 confirmed measles cases, which includes the 4 new cases reported by the California Department of Public Health:

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/wk/mm6312md.pdf

  2. March 31, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    “The newspaper articles often don’t mention that California had very few cases of measles in the past five years so the 35 cases reported among 38,000,000 Californians is not a frighteningly large numerical jump. ”

    As a pediatrician, I have to say that Dr. Jay’s comments are frightening. He does understand that even though the risk of death with measles is 0.2%, you don’t actually have to have 500 or 1000 cases to have your first death, right?

  3. Lawrence
    March 31, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    35 cases among children should be extremely distressing…..being at their most vulnerable, especially to something as deadly as SSPE, is nothing to make light of…and this man calls himself a Doctor? He is a disgrace to his profession.

  4. Peter Holleran
    March 31, 2014 at 5:40 pm

    This is in response to a group of these posts. The fact that “parents are outraged” about Dr. Gardner reflects only their conditioning, not their understanding. Dr. Gardner should not be dismissed in the same way that media dismisses “Jenny McCarthy”. Get real. The blind faith in the CDC, pharmaceutical companies (the most powerful lobby in the world), and government experts – in the face of immense financial mutuality of interest between their interchangeable staff members – strains belief.

    SSPE is now primarily a disease of the vaccinated. ( Pediatric Neurology, July 2004; Brain and Development, November 2006)

    Measles remains on of the leading causes of childhood mortality in countries where malnutrition, poor sanitation, and inadequate medical care are prevalent. This explains why during the late 1800’s into the 1900’s, when the nutritional status of the western world was improving, there was a dramatic decrease in the deaths from measles. So Dr. Gardner was only stating the obvious. The sad fact that a few children (or adults in the case of the flu) do die from these things, is no proof that any vaccine is a cure for them.

    No, Narad, you are attempting to obfuscate the issues here. YOU have offered no substantiation for the levels of antibodies (The cornerstone of the whole vaccine model) being the sole and even most important part of the immune equation. Cellular immunity (leucocyte response, macrophages, killer cells, integrity of the cell membrane, etc) are well-known as our primary immune response – and in fact the main response upon our first encounter with a virus or bacteria. And they are highly dependent upon critical nutrients being supplied to a person. In this light, say in measles, it is well-known that Vit A levels are usually quite decreased, and for a hundred years doctors have known that supplying it is an effective treatment for childhood measles. Cod liver oil has been a very effective treatment for what has long been a mild, self-limiting disease of childhood. (besides many historical references, see Pediatric Nursing Journal, Sept. 1996; Journal of Nutrition 1992; JAMA Feb 1993 – the latter reports a 90% reduction of measles mortality in infants with large doses of Vit A).

    There are children with a condition in which they never have antibodies to measles (aggamma-globulenemia) and in which they still amount an effective immune response to exposure to the virus. This contradicts the establishment ‘wisdom’ which turns out to be no wisdom that only an antibody attack will finish off the disease.

    Thus is further substantiated by the work of Ulrich Von Adrian of Harvard Medical School whop showed that survival of potentially fatal viral infections occur without the mounting go high antibody levels. Also researchers at Wellcome Sanger Institute in England have confirmed that antibody response does not necessarily confer immunity to all types if viral illnesses. [

    Why risk SSPE and other disasters when an inexpensive non-toxic remedy can do the job?

    The big item that no one here seems willing to address is the fact that if one looks at any graph made of official statistics on infectious diseases, he will discover that without exception, all major infectious diseases were ALREADY 90-99% eradicated BEFORE their vaccination campaigns were started. The claims for the vaccines being responsible for this is misplaced and erroneous. This is a starting point from which any sane conversation of vaccine safety or effectiveness should begin.

    Narad keeps repeating how cold-hearted I was in calling the elderly “not normal”, despite the fact that I have said my choice of words was misleading. If one in a thousand mostly elderly people die of the flu, it is sad, but not in itself a reason to mass inoculate every healthy person. Rather it an appeal to emotion, which is how the industry and media work on the average person who doesn’t have the time to investigate these things.

    The independent Cochrane Collaboration (i.e., , it does not accept funding from pharmaceutical companies) had this to say about the flu vaccine:

    “There are more than 200 viruses that can cause flu or flu-like illnesses (ILI’s), all of which produce identical or very similar symptoms. Only laboratory testing of nasal or nasal-pharyngeal swabs can indicate if an ILI is actually the flu. Although people and doctors often casually repot, and doctors frequently diagnose, most ILIs as the “flu”, testing is not routine in most cases. The government in turn uses [their own] computer modeling to establish their statistics.

    According to the CDC, between 5 and 20% of the population develops the flu during the winter months. This estimate, however, represents the percentage of the population that develops ILIs. According to the limited serological data, only about 10 percent of those with ILIs actually have the flu. Based on 274 studies of influenza vaccines and twenty-eight epidemiological studies from 1966 to 2007, representing more than three million participants, seven out of one hundred people will develop ILIs during the winter, but only one of those cases will be influenza. [This is important, I would say, if we are trying to determine if the flu vaccine is effective in reducing disease incidence].”

    So Narad, my mention of only seeing very few flu cases is not malpractice; man, you are really an attack dog! I was only using plain English in stating that personally I just have not seen that many cases. I don’t see or advertise of make myself out to be a treater of flu, nor do people come to me for that. I do see a cross-section of average people who should have an average amount of disorders, however, and do not see a great epidemic of these things, including all the other great threats fear-mongers would have us believe are coming back to get us.

    The Cochrane Collaboration also states:

    “The influenza vaccine’s efficacy is 30 percent in most years and 59 to 70 percent in a good year. Vaccine manufacturers make effectiveness claims based on antibody response alone; they do not address whether the vaccine in question actually prevents the disease or not. The FDA only considers antibody production which may or may not be associated with protection against disease. Thus a significant number of those vaccinated [maybe those immune compromised?] never mount an antibody response or have immunity from a disease. [this means that many elderly may die whether or not they have the flu or any other vaccine or treatment. All this means is that saying that it is unfortunate that 1 out of a thousand or tent thousand who get the flu or pneumonia will die of it, is not a reason in itself to vaccinate or proof of any kind that it makes sense].

    “We conclude that there is no evidence that only vaccinating healthcare workers prevents laboratory-proven influenza, pneumonia, and death from pneumonia in elderly residents in long-term care facilities.” [R. Roos, CIDRAP, 2011]

    Sumit Majumder, MD and colleagues at University of Alberta conducted an RCT of the flu vaccine among the elderly to see if the widely held belief that flu shots reduce morbidity and mortality survived close scrutiny. It did not. The study included 700 patents ages 65 and older; half received the flu shot and half did not. They found the relative risk of death was statistically insignificant. The study concluded that “previously observational studies may have overestimated the mortality benefits of influenza vaccination by, among other things, not controlling for appropriate variables.”

    So bottom lines, it is not just Jenny McCarthy, Tom Cruise, or whoever is the media/pharmaceutical advertisers’ target de jour that are concerned about the vaccine issue, but thousands of serious scientists.

  5. March 31, 2014 at 5:41 pm

    Reblogged this on Think Bigger, Public Health.

  6. lilady
    March 31, 2014 at 6:30 pm

    @ Peter Holloren:

    Dr. Gardner???

    You’re replying to “Narad”…who hasn’t posted a comment on this thread???

    How about you actually reading the post you are responding to???

    The risk of contracting measles for an unvaccinated child varies, dependent on where you were exposed and the length of time you were exposed.

    If you are outdoors when the exposure takes place, for a minute or two, the risk is minimal. If you are in a doctor’s indoor waiting room, the risk is high. (Once it is determined that a suspect case of measles was in an enclosed indoor area such as a doctor’s waiting room or hospital treatment room, that area must be evacuated, the door must be closed and the room should not be opened for at least two hours).

    Here from the Australian National Centre for Immunization Research & Surveillance, a guide for parents to make a decision regarding the protective value measles vaccination-vs-the risk of mild, moderate or severe adverse events. The evidence for measles vaccination is overwhelmingly positive.

    http://www.ncirs.edu.au/immunisation/education/mmr-decision/measles.php

  7. Chris
    March 31, 2014 at 7:04 pm

    Mr. Halleran: “SSPE is now primarily a disease of the vaccinated. ( Pediatric Neurology, July 2004; Brain and Development, November 2006)”

    The thing you might try doing is to learn how to provide proper cites, like including the title, or just provide the PMID.

    Though it took a bit I found both of them, and it seems you are both cherry picking and not reading the papers, because they don’t agree with your statement:

    Pediatr Neurol. 2004 Jul;31(1):46-51.
    Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis in children: prevalence in South China.

    Seven children had measles infection, and the majority of infection (86%) occurred during the world measles epidemic in 1988. The mean interval between measles infection and onset of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis was 6.5 years (range = 3-11 years). There has been an increasing trend of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis in southern China after the measles outbreak in 1988. Active surveillance of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis for those with measles infection during the 1988 outbreak is necessary to conduct multicenter drug trials for this devastating disease.

    Brain Dev. 2006 Nov;28(10):649-52. Epub 2006 Jul 7.
    Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis: is there something different in the younger children?

    Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis is a rare, slow viral infection caused by a defective measles virus. ….Although the number of patients in this study is not sufficient, we suggest that SSPE patients under the age of 4 years have a poor prognosis as a result of progressive or rapidly progressive course despite medical treatment.

    Now where exactly did they say SSPE is primarily a disease of the vaccinated? And why did you choose studies done in China and Turkey? Now compare those papers to these two:

    Int J Epidemiol. 2007 Dec;36(6):1334-48.
    Review of the effect of measles vaccination on the epidemiology of SSPE

    Results Epidemiological data showed that successful measles immunization programmes protect against SSPE and, consistent with virological data, that measles vaccine virus does not cause SSPE. Measles vaccine does not: accelerate the course of SSPE; trigger SSPE or cause SSPE in those with an established benign persistent wild measles infection. Evidence points to wild virus causing SSPE in cases which have been immunized and have had no known natural measles infection. Perinatal measles infection may result in SSPE with a short onset latency and fulminant course. Such cases are very rare. SSPE during pregnancy appears to be fulminant. Infants born to mothers with SSPE have not been subsequently diagnosed with SSPE themselves.

    Conclusions Successful measles vaccination programmes directly and indirectly protect the population against SSPE and have the potential to eliminate SSPE through the elimination of measles. Epidemiological and virological data suggest that measles vaccine does not cause SSPE.

    … and…

    J Infect Dis. 2005 Nov 15;192(10):1686-93.
    Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis: more cases of this fatal disease are prevented by measles immunization than was previously recognized.

    ResultsThe measles virus sequences derived from brain tissue samples obtained from 11 patients with SSPE confirmed the diagnosis of SSPE. For 5 of the 11 patients with SSPE who had samples tested by RT-PCR and for 7 patients with SSPE who were identified in published case reports, it was determined that the development of SSPE was associated with the measles resurgence that occurred in the United States during 1989–1991. The estimated risk of developing SSPE was 10-fold higher than the previous estimate reported for the United States in 1982

    ConclusionsVaccination against measles prevents more cases of SSPE than was originally estimated

    Mr. Halleran, if you have any evidence that the MMR vaccine, which has been used in the USA since 1971, causes more injury than measles, then please present the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers. Do try to provide at least the journal, date and title of the citation, or just the PMID. Or you can provide the link, though this blog limits you to two per comment.

  8. Narad
    March 31, 2014 at 8:46 pm

    Peter Holleran :
    This is in response to a group of these posts. The fact that “parents are outraged” about Dr. Gardner reflects only their conditioning, not their understanding.

    You mean Dr. Gordon. And no, the outrage is because he’s lying when he tells his unvaccinated patients that “measles is unlikely to be spread by … sharing a BART train.”

    Dr. Gardner should not be dismissed in the same way that media dismisses “Jenny McCarthy”. Get real.

    You’re correct; he deserves vastly more scorn, because he’s both a physician and one who profits from such destructive lies.

    The blind faith in the CDC, pharmaceutical companies (the most powerful lobby in the world)

    Pharma isn’t even the “most powerful lobby” in the U.S., much less the world: that’s the AARP.

    and government experts – in the face of immense financial mutuality of interest between their interchangeable staff members – strains belief.

    What was that you said about “conditioning” versus “understanding”?

    SSPE is now primarily a disease of the vaccinated. ( Pediatric Neurology, July 2004; Brain and Development, November 2006)

    Gee, I wonder why that might be. Of course, given that measles is eradicable, we could do away with the matter entirely, now couldn’t we? Remember smallpox? The switch from OPV to IPV?

    Measles remains on of the leading causes of childhood mortality in countries where malnutrition, poor sanitation, and inadequate medical care are prevalent.

    Yah, screw them.

    This explains why during the late 1800′s into the 1900′s, when the nutritional status of the western world was improving, there was a dramatic decrease in the deaths from measles.

    Not without improvement in medical technology, no, it doesn’t. Your time frame is also off, as the average case-fatality ratio over 1912–1916 was 26 per 1000. This is not a convincing argument in favor of measles disease

    So Dr. Gardner was only stating the obvious. The sad fact that a few children (or adults in the case of the flu) do die from these things, is no proof that any vaccine is a cure for them.

    A “cure”? Beg pardon? The question is prevention, and vaccines provably prevent disease.

    No, Narad, you are attempting to obfuscate the issues here. YOU have offered no substantiation for the levels of antibodies (The cornerstone of the whole vaccine model) being the sole and even most important part of the immune equation.

    That was your assertion, remember? I’m not trying to “obfuscate” anything. Go figure out what ‘anamnestic response’ means. I already gave you an entire chapter on vaccine immunology.

    Cellular immunity (leucocyte response, macrophages, killer cells, integrity of the cell membrane, etc) are well-known as our primary immune response – and in fact the main response upon our first encounter with a virus or bacteria.

    Congratulations, you’re now reading from W—pedia and failing, for the obvious reason that you have “cellular immunity” as some sort of mantra. Leukocytes, for example, represent the work of the adaptive immune system, not the innate immune system, which is what responds to novel challenges. Here.

    In any event, none of this makes any sense whatever unless you’re arguing against the adaptive immune system on general principles or something.

    And they are highly dependent upon critical nutrients being supplied to a person. In this light, say in measles, it is well-known that Vit A levels are usually quite decreased, and for a hundred years doctors have known that supplying it is an effective treatment for childhood measles.

    You’re already bumbling your own position. Vitamin A does nothing to help “cellular immunity” prevent measles.

    Cod liver oil has been a very effective treatment for what has long been a mild, self-limiting disease of childhood. (besides many historical references, see Pediatric Nursing Journal, Sept. 1996; Journal of Nutrition 1992; JAMA Feb 1993 – the latter reports a 90% reduction of measles mortality in infants with large doses of Vit A).

    The idea the cod liver oil is the Vitamin A supplement of choice border on the insane.

    There are children with a condition in which they never have antibodies to measles (aggamma-globulenemia) and in which they still amount an effective immune response to exposure to the virus.

    The word is ‘agammaglobulinemia’. And? Not only does the immune memory have to lie somewhere, it doesn’t work for all viral challenges. Specific immunity is an improvement over nonspecific immunity.

    This contradicts the establishment ‘wisdom’ which turns out to be no wisdom that only an antibody attack will finish off the disease.

    How do patients with agammaglobulinemia fare with diphtheria?

    Thus is further substantiated by the work of Ulrich Von Adrian of Harvard Medical School whop showed that survival of potentially fatal viral infections occur without the mounting go high antibody levels. Also researchers at Wellcome Sanger Institute in England have confirmed that antibody response does not necessarily confer immunity to all types if viral illnesses. [

    Gee, thanks for making me go look that up. One might think that an actual reference wouldn’t go so well for you. One would be correct. Mice. VSIV. “B cells were absolutely required to provide lymphotoxin (LT) α1β2.” I’m sure this will be fascinating for all of the laboratory-created humans with B cells but no antibodies.

    Would you like to test that out with another rhabdovirus? Maybe a lyssavirus? Think hard.

    Why risk SSPE and other disasters when an inexpensive non-toxic remedy can do the job?

    Vitamin A doesn’t reduce the risk of SSPE. Not contracting measles disease does.

    The big item that no one here seems willing to address is the fact that if one looks at any graph made of official statistics on infectious diseases, he will discover that without exception, all major infectious diseases were ALREADY 90-99% eradicated BEFORE their vaccination campaigns were started. The claims for the vaccines being responsible for this is misplaced and erroneous. This is a starting point from which any sane conversation of vaccine safety or effectiveness should begin.

    You don’t even realize that you’re failing to grasp your own argument, which is that mortality was decreasing, which, speaking of “obfuscation,” is used precisely to draw attention away from morbidity. Show me exactly where measles was “90-99% eradicated” before vaccination, given that in the prevaccine era, everyone got it.

    At this point, it is clear that you are “arguing” from some combination of ignorance, dishonesty, and bad faith.

    Narad keeps repeating how cold-hearted I was in calling the elderly “not normal”, despite the fact that I have said my choice of words was misleading. If one in a thousand mostly elderly people die of the flu, it is sad, but not in itself a reason to mass inoculate every healthy person. Rather it an appeal to emotion, which is how the industry and media work on the average person who doesn’t have the time to investigate these things.

    What part of the Japanese influenza data did you not understand? You’ve only dug yourself in deeper here, because in the prevaccine 1950s, the U.S. was still seeing an average of 450–500 deaths a year. Your response is that returning to this would be a good thing. Because cod liver oil. Claiming that your “choice of words was misleading” doesn’t fly when their plain meaning is clear.

    The independent Cochrane Collaboration (i.e., , it does not accept funding from pharmaceutical companies) had this to say about the flu vaccine

    You’re quoting from Vaccine Epidemic, not Cochrane. You are egregiously wasting my time.

    I do see a cross-section of average people who should have an average amount of disorders, however, and do not see a great epidemic of these things, including all the other great threats fear-mongers would have us believe are coming back to get us.

    Great, being a chiropractor makes your patient base a sample from which to make epidemiological generalization and recommend against vaccination. Got it.

    The Cochrane Collaboration also states

    You are again quoting from Vaccine Epidemic. I have already told you how the VE for seasonal influenza vaccines is assessed. Go read it.

    Sumit Majumder, MD and colleagues at University of Alberta conducted an RCT of the flu vaccine among the elderly to see if the widely held belief that flu shots reduce morbidity and mortality survived close scrutiny. It did not.

    Once again, see the Japanese data. You do not understand how compartmental epidemiological models work.

    So bottom lines, it is not just Jenny McCarthy, Tom Cruise, or whoever is the media/pharmaceutical advertisers’ target de jour that are concerned about the vaccine issue, but thousands of serious scientists.

    Something that you have utterly failed to demonstrate. Your own dishonesty, however, is now cemented. HTH. HAND.

    I am now going to press “post comment” and hope that the tags are not horribly broken.

  9. Richard Feuille
    March 31, 2014 at 9:14 pm

    Actually, Jay is quite wrong about the spread of measles on a BART train. Measles is spread by small droplets from the cough. These are so small that they can hang in the air for hours. One of the cases in a San Diego outbreak a couple of years ago was in the pediatrician’s office hours after the index case had left.

    SSPE is quite rare, but devastating, but measles kills 1 in 200 to 1 in 500 cases. This is not insignificant. And, many more are sick enough to require hospitalization.

  10. Richard Feuille
    March 31, 2014 at 9:25 pm

    Lots of short memories around here. In 1989-90 there was a measles epidemic that spread from the east coast to the west. There were thousands of hospitalized children and over 100 deaths, a number of which occurred in here in Southern California.

  11. Chris
    March 31, 2014 at 9:50 pm

    “Lots of short memories around here. In 1989-90 there was a measles epidemic that spread from the east coast to the west”

    Not for me. My kids consisted of a medically fragile toddler and an infant. It was front page news, especially when a nurse died in the city my dad grew up in (she was too old to have gotten the MMR).

    Some of articles of note about that epidemic:
    Acute measles mortality in the United States, 1987-2002.

    a href=”http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1307536/pdf/westjmed00347-0022.pdf”>Pediatric hospital admissions for measles. Lessons from the 1990 epidemic.

    West J Med. 1993 Oct;159(4):455-64.
    Measles epidemic from failure to immunize.

    And the citation I gave earlier on SSPE (apparently there was a spike due to that epidemic):

    J Infect Dis. 2005 Nov 15;192(10):1686-93.
    Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis: more cases of this fatal disease are prevented by measles immunization than was previously recognized.

  12. Dr. Gitte Bloom
    April 1, 2014 at 8:56 am

    I had a confirmed case of measles in a 6 year old patient of mine 4 weeks ago. Hospitalized 5days with rash, fever and encephalitis like symptoms. Thankfully doing well now. Had not been able to receive his MMR due to his IBD medications. His older brother who did have his first MMR before starting his own IBD medications had to go through painful immunoglobulin IM injections at Cedars Sinai to prevent infection. The process og informing (thankfully very few) patients in my office potentially exposed as well as the school, the health department has been a lot. In the end NO ONE agrees more than the patient and his family that this was not worth not having the MMR vaccine….even though the mom in the past with her older son had speculated if the IBD was related to his MMR vaccine.

  13. Mercuriyisbad
    April 1, 2014 at 9:26 am

    according to cdc there were 189 cases last year…..and according to cdc 1 in 1000 cases of measles will die.

    Lets put things into perspective and stop cherry picking data.

  14. Lawrence
    April 1, 2014 at 9:38 am

    Given that the MMR never contained Thimerisol & 1 in 1000 could mean that one of those people could have died, I don’t know what your problem is…..

  15. lilady
    April 1, 2014 at 10:20 am

    @ Mercury: Silly comment. Learn some basic statistics. The “one in 1,000 cases will die” statistic is based on large numbers/large outbreaks, such as what was experienced in France last year.

    Do you actually believe that we have to wait until we have 1,000 measles cases to see if that statistic is true? That one death from measles could be the “index case” or the 10th case or 143rd confirmed case.

    Sheesh, the ignorance of some posters here.

  16. Lawrence
    April 1, 2014 at 10:23 am

    @lilady – and in France, over 25% of those that were infected required hospitalization….that’s a huge number and not one that I want to see replicated here…interestingly enough, there is a huge push in Europe right now to get vaccination levels up to where they should be (I wonder why?)

  17. Mercuriyisbad
    April 1, 2014 at 10:41 am

    lilady :
    @ Mercury: Silly comment. Learn some basic statistics. The “one in 1,000 cases will die” statistic is based on large numbers/large outbreaks, such as what was experienced in France last year.
    Do you actually believe that we have to wait until we have 1,000 measles cases to see if that statistic is true? That one death from measles could be the “index case” or the 10th case or 143rd confirmed case.
    Sheesh, the ignorance of some posters here.

    I tell you cdc statistics and you say i’m ignorant….wtf are talking about?

    How many deaths by measles last year? Based on my faulty cdc statistics I would be willing to bet that not one person died from measles last year. Yet, you continue to push the false narrative that measles is plaguing our country and it’s the fault of everyone who doesn’t get vaccinated. You people don’t even have a grave to stand on.

  18. Lawrence
    April 1, 2014 at 10:49 am

    @MIB – if no one got the measles, we wouldn’t have to worry about anyone dying from it, isn’t that right?

  19. Lawrence
    April 1, 2014 at 10:54 am

    It is also incredibly stupid to assume that 1000 cases have to occur before someone dies – every single infected person has that same chance of death, not to mention children having the opportunity getting SSPE (which is always fatal).

    So, you tell us how many deaths would be necessary for you to change your mind? 10, 100, how about your child?

  20. Mercuriyisbad
    April 1, 2014 at 11:02 am

    this just breaking…lol…..90% of those who were vaccinated still got measles….imagine that.

    According to the New York State Department of Health, two of 20 people infected in a recent measles outbreak in New York City were children who had not been vaccinated by their parent’s choice.

  21. Mercuriyisbad
  22. Lawrence
    April 1, 2014 at 11:30 am

    Thanks for posting that MIB – seems to confirm that getting vaccinated is a very good idea.

  23. lilady
    April 1, 2014 at 11:41 am

    @ Mercury: Second silly comment: So, if the “index case” dies from measles and hasn’t infected anyone, does that mean that measles is 100 % fatal?

  24. Chris
    April 1, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    MB: “this just breaking…lol…..90% of those who were vaccinated still got measles….imagine that.”

    New York has a population of around eight million persons, if 80% had had a measles vaccine, then the those would number 6.4 million. So if 90% of those who were vaccinated in New York got measles, then there would be over five million cases of measles, not twenty.

  25. JGC56
    April 1, 2014 at 1:22 pm

    “This explains why during the late 1800′s into the 1900′s, when the nutritional status of the western world was improving, there was a dramatic decrease in the deaths from measles.”

    Dying is hardly the only adverse outcome that can occur as the result of meselse infections–why are you’re gnoring thepossibility of surviving, but with blindness, deafness, sterility, etc.?

    Would you argue that because the invention of teh iron lung resulted in a dramatic decrease of deaths from polio, polio vaccines are unnecessary?

  26. lilady
    April 1, 2014 at 11:16 pm

    “This explains why during the late 1800′s into the 1900′s, when the nutritional status of the western world was improving, there was a dramatic decrease in the deaths from measles.”

    I know exactly where that quote came from…and it is false.

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm

    Achievements in Public Health, 1900-1999 Impact of Vaccines Universally Recommended for Children — United States, 1990-1998

    “At the beginning of the 20th century, infectious diseases were widely prevalent in the United States and exacted an enormous toll on the population. For example, in 1900, 21,064 smallpox cases were reported, and 894 patients died (1). In 1920, 469,924 measles cases were reported, and 7575 patients died; 147,991 diphtheria cases were reported, and 13,170 patients died. In 1922, 107,473 pertussis cases were reported, and 5099 patients died (2,3)…..”

  27. Chris
    April 1, 2014 at 11:20 pm

    Even in the early part of the twentieth century, those who understood the statistics knew measles was dangerous. A STATISTICAL STUDY OF MEASLES (1914) is a really good read, the last page includes dialogue that could be directed towards Dr. Jay.

  28. Narad
    April 2, 2014 at 12:48 am

    Mercuriyisbad :
    this just breaking…lol…..90% of those who were vaccinated still got measles….imagine that.

    I tend to doubt that Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia got that exactly right, as New York City has its own health department, which would be gathering those numbers. Anyway, let’s turn to CBS News:

    “In New York City, 25 cases of measles have been confirmed, according to numbers released April 1 by the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, including 12 children and 13 adults who were infected since February….

    “In New York, a majority of children in this outbreak were too young to be vaccinated or within the 12–15 month window [when vaccination is recommended], according to health officials. Of the adults, many thought they had been vaccinated, but lacked documentation.”

    Oops. You probably shouldn’t regurgitate stuff that you found on Activist Post or InfoWars without verifying it.

    We also know that one of those in the “window” was a 15-month-old who had missed vaccination because of illness. It was only two of the first nine children who were deliberately unvaccinated:

    “The first two cases were in adults who had traveled outside New York and who did not know each other but were probably infected at the same airport in the United States….

    “Only three of the 11 [adults] had records proving they had been vaccinated, though others believed they had been. In rare instances, a vaccinated person can become infected later in life.

    “Of the nine children, seven were too young to be vaccinated or within the window of 12 to 15 months old when the vaccination is recommended. The other two were from families in which the parents refused to allow the vaccination.”

  29. dingo199
    April 3, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    Thanks Narad for your tireless efforts to counter the brain dead.

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  1. April 8, 2014 at 11:22 pm
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