Home > Parent Perspective, Preventable Diseases, Testimonials, Vaccine Myths > Victims Katie Couric Neglected To Mention In Her Discussion of HPV

Victims Katie Couric Neglected To Mention In Her Discussion of HPV

A few weeks ago I wrote about the fact that Katie Couric’s new daytime television show Katie was planning to air a segment about HPV vaccine.  After hearing the proposed line-up for the show it was clear that the HPV vaccine was not going to be portrayed favorably.  And as expected, the conversation has blown up all over the internet in the past 24 hours with many reporters and bloggers calling out Katie Couric and her producers for how poorly they’ve handled this important conversation.

Unfortunately, daytime television ratings are driven by emotion and controversy and Katie Couric’s producers know that.  So despite the overwhelming research available on the safety and efficacy of the HPV vaccine, that information was not adequately presented to the millions of viewers of her show.

But there was one other thing notably missing. 

It was the voices of those who have suffered with HPV related cancers.  And those family members who speak out on behalf of those lost to HPV related cancers.  

Since the Katie Couric neglected to include a single cervical cancer survivor, I’m encouraging anyone who has had a personal experience with an HPV related cancer to speak out and let others know just how terrifying it has been for you.  You may share your story in the comments below or send them to us at shotofprevention@gmail.com.  And I would like to encourage everyone to share your opinions of the episode with one of the show’s producers (Beth.Cochran@katiecouric.com).

Below are just a few of the HPV related stories that are featured on the Shot By Shot website.  They are all very compelling and emotional and I hope that someday they will get the kind of attention that the Katie show has given to those critical of the vaccine.

In this video, Heather Burcham shares her story of cervical cancer just two months before she died.  Her hope was to change just one person’s life by encouraging others to get the HPV vaccine.

This is an excellent video filmed at the national Cervical Cancer Coalition conference in Atlanta, GA, in January 2013 which highlights stories from cervical cancer survivors and family members of women who have died from the disease.  These personal stories highlight the devastating impact of cervical cancer and emphasizes the importance of prevention in the form of vaccines and regular screening–prevention that can save lives.

 Brett lost his wife Summer to cervical cancer despite the fact that she had regular PAP tests.

Denise Burgin talks about losing her daughter Shelley at the age of 27, just nine months after being diagnosed with cervical cancer.  She too had received regular cervical screenings, yet her diagnosis came too late.

In this video,Joslyn talks about what it has been like to live with HPV.  At age 18 she had her first abnormal PAP test, followed by two different LEEP procedures and a cone biopsy all before she was married at the age of 24.

At age 26, Patty was diagnosed with cervical cancer and told she would probably never be able to have children.  Fortunately she went on to have three children who she will choose to protect with the HPV vaccine.

Just a year after her first child was born, this young mother was diagnosed with cervical cancer.  In her area alone, seven other women were diagnosed at the same time.  After two surgeries and a radical hysterectomy she is was no longer able to have children, but she is also the only one out of the eight that were diagnosed at that time to have survived.

These are just a handful of the many stories of fear, suffering and loss that can be attributed to HPV.  Please share these stories with others so that people can hear about the real risks of HPV and why it’s so important to protect our children with the HPV vaccine.

  1. December 5, 2013 at 1:46 pm | #1

    It is heart breaking to think that additional people may suffer because of a show that favored stories of parents, sincerely hurting but with no evidence that the vaccines caused their pain, over the evidence of this vaccine safety.
    Thank you for giving voice to these victims.

  2. December 5, 2013 at 1:54 pm | #2

    It’s these heartbreaking stories, we as vaccine advocates want to prevent. We have the technology to protect our sons and daughter from this cancer-causing virus. It’s saddening to see misinformation and scare tactics being spread by people who lack a science background, misunderstand immunology and are working for the anti-vaccine bandwagon. I don’t blame parents- vaccines and the immune system is a complex subject that requires years of dedication schooling and research to understand. I blame poor media and journalism that promotes the shoddy pseudoscience. If the anti-science/pro-disease campaigns weren’t given a venue to spew their garbage, we wouldn’t have to un-scare people from antivaccine nonsense.

  3. RobRN
    December 5, 2013 at 2:57 pm | #3

    What is it now? About 50+ million doses of HPV vaccine administered world-wide thus far and a relative handful of supposed (post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy) adverse reactions with dubious or nonsensical documentaton reported to VAERS? Real and large volumes of credible scientific data trumps “I heard” urban legends and memes any day.

  4. Beth
    December 5, 2013 at 3:02 pm | #4

    But the HPV vaccine only includes two cancer-causing strains, when there are at least twelve more: consequently, safety trials found that there were more cancerous lesions in vaccinated women, just not type 16 and 18 included in the vaccine. Dr. Harper pointed out that 10-15% of girls (and boys) have previous HPV exposure from transmission from their mother or from getting it by touching contaminated objects during childhood (not always by sexual contact). These girls are at much higher risk of getting pre-cancerous lesions if they are vaccinated than if they were not vaccinated, yet no effort is made at pre-screening for previous exposure because it would be so expensive, and it’s easy to deny that any adverse reactions were caused by the vaccine. Most people contract HPV at some point, and over 99% of them clear it completely: it’s only those with additional risk factors like smoking or vitamin deficiencies that may develop cancer. On Katie’s blog there are now detailed accounts by hundreds of parents of their children dying or being permanently disabled by the vaccine. Dr. Harper stated that the recently-adopted protocol of regular Pap tests combiined with HPV DNA screeing offered a 100% cure rate in the case of suspicioius lesions developing. These are all facts that everone should be aware of before deciding to get the vaccine, and Katie and Dr. Harper have done the world a great service by broadcasting this program.

  5. Chris
    December 5, 2013 at 3:18 pm | #5

    Beth:

    But the HPV vaccine only includes two cancer-causing strains, when there are at least twelve more: consequently, safety trials found that there were more cancerous lesions in vaccinated women, just not type 16 and 18 included in the vaccine.

    The two strains cover 70% of the cancers. You are falling for the Nirvana Fallacy, you are willing to risk 0% protection until 100% protection is available.

    hese girls are at much higher risk of getting pre-cancerous lesions if they are vaccinated than if they were not vaccinated,

    Citation needed.

  6. December 5, 2013 at 6:54 pm | #6

    Agree with Chris. Beth: you are incorrect that women with the vaccine were more likely to get precancerous lesions. That is just false. Read the initial study: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa061741#t=articleResults
    It’s also not true that the types of HPV acquired by touching contaminated objects are the same types that cause cervical cancer–there are many many many types of HPV, some of which cause warts and are transmitted by other means. Dr. Harper’s claim of 100% cure rate with paps and HPV screening is also false. Dr. Harper is just one voice (who is known to receive money from anti-vaccine groups). There are MANY studies on HPV vaccine regarding prevention of cervical lesions, anal lesions, use in men, etc. Review those rather than anecdotal data by a bunch of commenters on a talk show host’s blog. The vaccine is safe and effective and to suggest otherwise on a nationally viewed show is potentially endangering women’s lives.

  7. Scarlett M
    December 5, 2013 at 8:06 pm | #7

    RobRN – are you an RN? Where is your empathy and compassion for vaccine injured people? Way to minimize those that are injured and their crazy nutty families.

  8. December 5, 2013 at 8:14 pm | #8

    @Scarlett – there are a very small number of legitimately vaccine injured individuals, and of course we have the utmost compassion for them….where is your compassion for the thousands of women that are harmed by HPV-derived Cancer every single year?

  9. Chris
    December 5, 2013 at 8:20 pm | #9

    Scarlett M, where is your empathy and compassion for the over ten thousand diagnosed with cervical cancer, plus the three thousand who die from it each year? Or even just for the women profiled above?

  10. Beth
    December 5, 2013 at 11:13 pm | #10

    Chris,
    Sawaya PMID:17494933 “HPV vaccination: more questions, more answers” FUTURE II trial. Rates of grade 2 or 3 cervical intraepithelial nioplasia or adenocarcinoma in situ were 1.3 in vaccinated women and 1.5 in unvaccinated women, an efficacy of 17%. In alayses by lesion type, the efficacy appearws to be significant only for grade 2 cervical intraepithelial neoplasia; no efficacy was demonstrable for grade 3 cervical intraepithelial neoplasia or adenocarcinoma in situ. Merck claimed efficacy against high-grade lesions was around 100%, but in this trial it was only 17%. Against non-vaccine HPV types, Gardasil had a negative -23% efficacy, meaning the vaccine caused more people to develop CIN3 lesions to other HPV types, which is why the overall efficacy was so low. The trial involved 12,167 women with no HPV preexposure. Sawaya believed that the efficacy was so poor because the at least thirteen oncogenic HPV serotypes not included in the vaccine caused cancerous lesions in them. “Targeting only two types may not have had a great effect on overall rates of preinvasive lesions.” In the trial, there were 70 cases of non-HPV 16/18 cancerous lesions in the vaccinated women, but only 57 cases in the placebo group.

  11. Beth
    December 5, 2013 at 11:14 pm | #11

    In Table 93 of the Merck data (STN 125126 Gardasil) to FDA on one of the trials, in the outcome for the CIN3/AIS column against the non-vaccine types, you see 33 cases in the vaccinated group and 25 cases in the unvaccinated group, which again gives a negative vaccine efficacy of -32%. That means 32% MORE people who were vaccinated got non-HPV CIN3 lesions than those who weren’t vaccinated.
    Sawaya in the NEJM article More questions more answers cited above said that “in contrast to a plateau in the incidence of disease related to HPV types 16 and 18 (in the vaccine) among vaccinated women, the overall disease incidence regardless of HPV type continued to increase, raising the possibility that other oncogenic HPV types eventually filled the biologic niche left behind after the elimination of HPV types 16 and 18.”
    Gardasil is supposed to prevent 70% of cases of cervical cancer, but it did not prevent 70% of cervical biopsies, colposcopies, and loop electro-excision procedures in vaccinated women. In Miller’s “Clinical Review of Biologics License Application for HPV 6, 11, 16, 18…”fda.gov/cber/review/hpvmer060806r.pdf, p. 368, Table 285, the results showed a 14.9% reduction in colposcopies in vaccinated women as compared with placebos, 17.2% reduction in biopsies, and 28.2% reduction in LEEP procedures. It should have been 70%, but wasn’t, probably because other serotypes had moved in and caused the vaccinated women’s lesions.

  12. Chris
    December 5, 2013 at 11:39 pm | #12

    Beth: “Sawaya PMID:17494933 “HPV vaccination: more questions, more answers” FUTURE II trial.”

    It is a comment, not a study. The entire thing is online, and does not really say exactly what you think it does: HPV Vaccination — More Answers, More Questions.

    Also, that is from May 2007, less than a year after the vaccine was introduced in June 2006. So one can assume that most of the young ladies who received the vaccine were older and not virgins (actually the above paper actually says that). It also seems that those who would have been vaccinated were in the actual vaccine study group and actively being monitored for HPV infection. Because I am pretty much sure that my then thirteen year old daughter was not tested in 2007. Which drives the note on the CDC website and other papers that being vaccinated after HPV infection does not cure HPV.

    My daughter was in the younger group who was vaccinated starting in late 2007 (while in middle school). Do you have any other citation that is more recent, and would encompass those young kids, perhaps something written in the last couple of years?

  13. miriam
    December 6, 2013 at 12:14 am | #13

    I have stage four cervical cancer. There is still not enough solid data and research done on this vaccine for me to feel comfortable letting my twin girls that are 11 be vaccinated. It throws up MANY red flags when one of the head researchers of Gardisil says it was not tested enough on younger girls. Most women are able to fight off the HPV that causes cancer. Maybe when they have more answers, I will feel more comfortable, I do not wish what I am going through on anyone. But there has to be better testing of these vaccines before they are thrown out there

  14. Chris
    December 6, 2013 at 1:00 am | #14

    miriam: “I have stage four cervical cancer”

    I am so sorry! I truly hope the best for you, especially for your daughters. I was eleven years old when my mother died, and it was horrible. There really is no good time for a mother to die, but having it happen at the cusp of puberty was a psychological roller coaser. I did survive because of and also in spite of my step-mother.

    “Most women are able to fight off the HPV that causes cancer.”

    But obviously you were not among them. Immune abilities are often family traits. My dad and I are both allergic to similar things, like nickel. Though it is not consistent, since my sister is fine with nickel but very allergic to wool. And a on a weird note: both my dad and I are impervious to ticks and leeches… they refuse to latch on to both of us.

    It seems that you got cancer from HPV, that your daughters have a very real chance of that happening to them. Just like women who have seen their mothers and aunts die from breast cancer check to see if they have a higher chance for having the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genetic sequences.

    Though in your case, you cannot know what genetic sequence makes you more vulnerable to cancer from an HPV infection. But that is to be expected, since human genetics is very complicated. My oldest son has a severe genetic heart condition. There are (at least a couple of years ago) eighteen known gene sequences that cause it. He was tested and had none of the known sequences.

    Lots of research has been done, and I truly hope your daughters get to grow up knowing you. Trust me, I type this with tears in my eyes.

  15. Mims
    December 6, 2013 at 1:07 am | #15

    I have an advanced stage of cervical cancer. I am 31. I had regular Paps and HPV tests. I was told by MY DOCTOR that I was too young to have cervical cancer and that it takes years and years for it to develop. Six months later, a new doctor found a tumor in my cervix and I was fighting to survive and I still am. Chemo and radiation are so horrible. You cant even imagine what it is like. I get so annoyed by people who spout statistics and what the “talking box” told them. I am living it. And I would not wish this on my worst enemy. This can happen to ANYONE. And mark my words, you will see more cases of cervical cancer in the coming years as doctors are moving towards paps every 3 years. Maybe the vaccine has risks. But guess what? Most people in this world will get HPV at some point. It is that common. I will vaccinate my son AND my daughter if I am fortunate enough to still be alive. As for the ignorant comment about 100 percent prevention with paps and HPV tests…that is pure garbage. The Pap test, itself, is not even 100 percent reliable. One missed swipe of the swab can mean life or death. I can direct you to online support groups for THOUSANDS of women with cervical cancer. And yes, we all DID get our paps and NO we were not prostitutes. We are mothers, grandmothers, daughters, sisters and friends. We are the experts. Experts who were ignored.

  16. December 6, 2013 at 2:11 am | #16

    Something I am trying to post elsewhere, but its idiotic system thinks I am “posting to fast.” But here is something from my past:

    My feeble engineer mind thinks it is better to prevent than to treat.

    Anyone with contrary evidence are welcome to post their peer reviewed scientific literature. But I will tell you from personal anecdotal evidence that having a mom die when one is only is eleven years old truly sucks. It is not something I would recommend.

    Do not ever think the pain from losing one’s mother fades after several decades. It does not. I am turning off my financial computer (most of the time I post from the kitchen computer), and going to go read a library book. Though it depends on how much I can see through the tears.

  17. December 6, 2013 at 6:28 am | #17

    @Miriam – and Dr. Harper was not “one of the lead researchers” – and by quoting her as such, it shows that you’ve bought into the anti-vaccine lies.

  18. Beth
    December 6, 2013 at 1:49 pm | #18

    Chris,
    The FUTURE II trial used 12,167 women at 90 study sites in 13 countries. The women had no history of HPV virus exposure. It was only to be expected that, on removing targeted Gardasil strains 16 and 18 from that population by the vaccine, that some of the remaining thirteen cancer-causing HPV strains would fill the vacated niche and cause pre-cancerous lesions, which they did.

  19. RobRN
    December 6, 2013 at 2:12 pm | #19

    Scarlett M :RobRN – are you an RN? Where is your empathy and compassion for vaccine injured people? Way to minimize those that are injured and their crazy nutty families.

    YES, I have 40+ years background in healthcare beginning as an Army Medic during Vietnam! My experience included many years in emergency departments and intensive care. Further, I’ve done graduate study and worked in public health epidemiology and biostatistics. I certainly have empathy for the infirmed as I’ve seen quite a number of people suffer and die from REAL injuries and maladies, NOT conjectured vaccine injury with no credible evidence of causation.

  20. Chris
    December 6, 2013 at 2:28 pm | #20

    Beth: “remaining thirteen cancer-causing HPV strains would fill the vacated niche and cause pre-cancerous lesions, which they did.”

    Citation needed, preferably one from the last couple of years.

  21. December 6, 2013 at 2:46 pm | #21

    @Beth – you mean this study?

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa061741

    Results

    Subjects were followed for an average of 3 years after receiving the first dose of vaccine or placebo. Vaccine efficacy for the prevention of the primary composite end point was 98% (95.89% confidence interval [CI], 86 to 100) in the per-protocol susceptible population and 44% (95% CI, 26 to 58) in an intention-to-treat population of all women who had undergone randomization (those with or without previous infection). The estimated vaccine efficacy against all high-grade cervical lesions, regardless of causal HPV type, in this intention-to-treat population was 17% (95% CI, 1 to 31).

    Full Text of Results…
    Conclusions

    In young women who had not been previously infected with HPV-16 or HPV-18, those in the vaccine group had a significantly lower occurrence of high-grade cervical intraepithelial neoplasia related to HPV-16 or HPV-18 than did those in the placebo group. (ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT00092534.)

  22. Scarlett M
    December 6, 2013 at 5:54 pm | #22

    RobRN,

    “I’ve seen quite a number of people suffer and die from REAL injuries and maladies, NOT conjectured vaccine injury with no credible evidence of causation.”

    REAL injuries? You insult me, my family, and all other people and families who have suffered from vaccine injuries. You should really consider picking another profession.

  23. December 6, 2013 at 6:53 pm | #23

    @Scarlett – then you would have no problem pointing us in the direction of your VAERS entry & let us know how your case in Vaccine Court went, correct?

  24. Scarlett M
    December 6, 2013 at 7:23 pm | #24

    Lawrence, if you would like to chat with one of my two uncle’s who were both MD’s until they got Guillain-Barre Syndrome from flu shots, 5 years apart from each other, I would be glad to set up the personal call. You can ask either one of them the details face to face. They obviously can answer your questions better then I can. What I do know is that a couple of families lives have been turned upside down and you have idiots like RobRN, talking down vaccine injuries. Makes me sick!!

  25. RobRN
    December 6, 2013 at 7:45 pm | #25

    Scarlett M :Lawrence, if you would like to chat with one of my two uncle’s who were both MD’s until they got Guillain-Barre Syndrome from flu shots, 5 years apart from each other, I would be glad to set up the personal call. You can ask either one of them the details face to face. They obviously can answer your questions better then I can. What I do know is that a couple of families lives have been turned upside down and you have idiots like RobRN, talking down vaccine injuries. Makes me sick!!

    Guillian Barre Syndrome is a risk always to be associated with a vaccination? There are only 3000-6000 cases of GBS confirmed annually in the USA. Sure, some cases really do develop following vaccinations – But be careful not to be taken in by erroneous correlation! GBS is also seen following a bacterial or viral infection but about 60% of the cases occur with NO identifiable cause. The incidence of GBS closely following a vaccination is estimated to be 1-2 per MILLION vaccinations administered. And – it’s always difficult to determine if the vaccination REALLY caused the GBS or if it’s a unrelated random occurrence because about 60% of GBS has no identifiable cause.

  26. December 6, 2013 at 7:46 pm | #26

    @Scarlett – I hate to say I don’t believe you, but I don’t believe you…..but, if you have actual evidence, such as a VAERS entry or information from a Vaccine Court case, we’ll certainly consider it.

  27. Beth
    December 6, 2013 at 7:50 pm | #27

    Lawrence,
    How about neoplasias caused by serotypes other than the 16 and 18 targeted by Gardasil? They were the ones that occurred more frequently in vaxed than in unvaxed women.

  28. December 6, 2013 at 8:06 pm | #28

    @Beth – that was in one study & has not been replicated since…..if you want to try to scare people, you can try, but the science doesn’t back you up.

  29. Chris
    December 6, 2013 at 8:06 pm | #29

    Beth: “They were the ones that occurred more frequently in vaxed than in unvaxed women.”

    Citation needed. Preferably dated later 2010.

  30. Beth
    December 6, 2013 at 8:43 pm | #30

    Chris,
    I’m sure you’re aware that no one does large-scale safety studies once a vaccine has been released. The study I cited was by Merck and studies over 10,000 women. You choose cutoff dates based on your knowledge of when the most recent reliable study was done, then put the cutoff date just after that.
    There are now hundreds of moving stories by bereaved parents on Katie’s blog about their children’s severe reactions to Gardasil which left them severely disabled or dead. You’d have to have a heart of stone not to be moved by them. It’s not a question of choosing whether you care more about victims of vaccine damage or victims of cervical cancer.
    The safe way to handle the risk of cervical cancer is to get regular Pap and DNA tests, which Dr. Harper pointed out was a new protocol and offered a 100% cure rate of any lesions detected, without incurring the risk of disability, death from vaccine reaction, or increased risk of infection with serotypes other than 16 and 18. Less than 1% of infected women develop cervical cancer, usually women with increased risk from smoking, excessive drinking, unsafe sexual practices, or vitamin deficiencies. Women should realize they should make wise lifestyle choices and take vitamins to prevent deficiencies. And, if they develop pre-cancerous lesions, the Pap and DNA tests will permit treatment which offers a 100% cure.

  31. December 6, 2013 at 8:51 pm | #31

    @Beth – that fact that you are unaware of post-release safety surveillance programs for any and all drugs and treatments, plus you think that pap smears offer 100% cures for anything (they are for detection only & whatever treatment is used at that point is never 100% effective – that’s what we call a Nirvana or Perfect World Fallacy) means that you’ve bought into the anti-vax arguments hook, line and sinker……

    When we looked at the VAERS entries for Gardisil, it was found that several amounted to “I heard on the Internet that someone died” or the person died from a completely unrelated cause (like a car accident).

    Stories are just stories unless backed by actual scientific evidence – of which, you have exactly none.

  32. Chris
    December 6, 2013 at 9:21 pm | #32

    Beth: “The study I cited was by Merck and studies over 10,000 women.”

    Those were women aged 16 to 23, many were already infected with HPV, and most were sexually active. I asked for more recent surveys that would show the effectiveness on those who received the vaccine at a younger age when they were sexually naive.

    “There are now hundreds of moving stories by bereaved parents on Katie’s blog about their children’s severe reactions to Gardasil which left them severely disabled or dead.”

    I am sorry, but those are unverified anecdotes. Looking at the “Finding of Facts” for one case, it would seem the abnormal heart beat found in some EKGs would have been more likely than a vaccine that consists of some proteins. I have a kid with a genetic heart condition, and there are many more verified stories of families being devastated after “sudden cardiac death.” If you want to shed a few tears, just go over to a forum on genetic heart conditions.

    “Less than 1% of infected women develop cervical cancer, usually women with increased risk from smoking, excessive drinking, unsafe sexual practices, or vitamin deficiencies.”

    Citation needed.

    You accuse us of having hearts of stone! You are now judging the women in the stories in the above article, and the more than ten thousand who get cervical cancer each year and the three thousand who die from each year.

    “Women should realize they should make wise lifestyle choices and take vitamins to prevent deficiencies.”

    Do those “lifestyle” choices include making sure there the husband is HPV free? Or does it also include just crossing their legs to avoid rape? You are literally blaming the victim.

    “And, if they develop pre-cancerous lesions, the Pap and DNA tests will permit treatment which offers a 100% cure.”

    On what planet is it better to treat than prevent?

  33. Karin
    December 6, 2013 at 10:48 pm | #33

    I am glad that the unreliability of VAERS data has been pointed out. It is, at best, only a crude barometer of reactions that might be related to a vaccination. Agencies do monitor the entries, no matter how incomplete and nonsensical they may be, and studies have been initiated. One program, the Vaccine Safety Data (VSD) study, has been in existance for at least 20 years and has generated dozens of high quality research papers evaluating vaccine safety. This program has access, through a number of cooperating large health care delivery oranizations nationwide, to millions of electronic medical records. Very large numbers of records can be astutely and quickly analyzed. Results? Over and over again, these well designed, controlled and staticially analyzed studies show there are no significant trends in serious adverse reactions in any vaccine. It cannot be truthfully said that there is no safety study after release of a new vaccine!

  34. December 6, 2013 at 10:57 pm | #34

    @Karin- AMEN!!!

  35. B’s Mom
    December 6, 2013 at 11:34 pm | #35

    My twenty seven year old daughter was diagnosed with stage 1b2 adenosquamous cervical cancer on September 2, 2011. She went through standard of care treatment and the cancer persisted. She died within ten months of diagnosis on July 19, 2012. She never missed a Pap test nor did she ever have an abnormal Pap test. She also had all three shots of Gardasil. All that and never once tested for HPV because she was under thirty and did not have any abnormal Pap test results. If I had it to do over knowing what I know now, I would not have let her be vaccinated Gardasil and I would have insisted that she have an HPV test with each Pap test from when she had her first Pap test. At least she would have known that she had a persistent HPV infection and we could have asked for a colposcopy and ECC. Some of you can comment all you want about why women under thirty are not tested for HPV unless they have an abnormal Pap test, I can tell you right now, I know the rationale behind it and I do not agree with it. I am not anti vaccine or pro vaccine, this is my opinion from my research.

  36. Elizabeth
    December 7, 2013 at 12:06 am | #36

    B’s Mom,
    I’m very sorry that your daughter died so tragically. I agree with you, Dr. Harper said on Katie’s show that the new protocol was to recommend a Pap and HPV DNA test regularly. Ten years ago, I had a DNA test after an abnormal Pap test and a colposcopy showed a suspicious lesion. I had asked for the DNA test earlier, but was told it was not done routinely, as it would make the woman worry if the result was abnormal. So instead I worried for a month after a Pap test was suspicious, but the DNA test showed that I was HPV-free, having cleared an HPV infection with no treatment. I thought it was ridiculous to deny me the DNA test when I wanted it, and in the case of your daughter, not doing it was criminal. Gardasil, as I commented above, actually increases the risk of non-included cancer-causing HPV strains taking hold. Gardasil is very effective in eliminating types 16 and 18, so that is probably what happened in your daughter’s case. Since women have to keep getting the Pap test anyway, it’s better to avoid the risk of Gardasil and just go with the new protocol of testing recommended by Dr. Harper. The most humane doctors, like Dr. Harper, agree with you (us) that the former strategy was irresponsible.

  37. Elizabeth
    December 7, 2013 at 12:14 am | #37

    And Lawrence, obviously the Pap and DNA test do not prevent cancer, but they do not cause vaccine reactions either, which is a big plus. Carried out regularly, they can find cancer when it is still small and completely curable, Dr. Harper said 100% curable. If you read the accounts of the grieving parents on Katie’s blog, hundreds of them, you will find that they are not vague friend of a friend rumors, but searing and detailed eyewitness accounts. Most of them are described as being healthy, athletic, vibrant, and completely healthy before Gardasil, and did not have heart or other health conditions.
    Chris, I’m not blaming any victims. Life is hard and everyone must make many choices. The girl who is raped and has had Gardasil may not get serotypes 16 or 18, but it is still tragic and unfair if she gets any other of the fifteen cancer-causing serotypes, increased if she has gotten Gardasil. Tragic if she gets HIV, or any other STD, tragic because of the trauma as well. But asking her to risk disability or death from Gardasil is asking a lot. Of course she can make that choice if she wishes, but I”d want her to read all 6000 comments on Katie’s blog before making the decision. Most of the parents there say they wish to God they had known the risk, they would never have done that to their daughters had they known.

  38. Chris
    December 7, 2013 at 1:03 am | #38

    Elizabeth: “Gardasil, as I commented above, actually increases the risk of non-included cancer-causing HPV strains taking hold.”

    Citation needed. Preferably dated 2010 and after.

    And why the name change?

    Yes, you are blaming the victims.

    The six thousand comments are not data. Now give the the actual verifiable data that the HPV vaccine causes more harm than the disease. Show us the PubMed indexed study by a qualified reputable researcher that the vaccine causes at least ten thousand cases of serious side effects and three thousand deaths every year. Because it is all about relative risk and verifiable data.

  39. December 7, 2013 at 8:52 am | #39

    @Elizabeth – if you viewed the information available on this very site, you’d see that the safety profile of the Gardisil vaccine is excellent (and the VAERS entries for the vaccine are mostly garbage – especially those bogus “death” entries). If any of those “hundreds” of accounts you’ve read held water whatsoever, they would be followed up on (and heck, listed in VAERS too).

  40. licha hericane
    December 7, 2013 at 12:07 pm | #40

    The pain of losing a loved one, whether from disease or trying to prevent disease, is the most horrendous pain we endure, when our beloveds leave us behind. I’m not playing both sides of the fence, and am not here to debate vax or anti-vax, because I understand that there are severe wounds, no matter which side of the fence you’re on. And which of course are the explanation for such strong and diversified opinion. The loss HURTS, no matter the cause.

    This is so sad. My heart is breaking for ALL of you this morning, whether the wound is from the loss of a son or daughter, whose time with you was interrupted from a reaction trying to prevent illness, or an SOP member, who lost the loving bond of a parent, perhaps through a dreadful communicable disease long ago.

    To ALL those who comment here; for, against, undecided, ambivalent, etc., please know that many of us readers are thinking of each and every one of you, as we read your stories, and would like to relay our sympathies and offer a cyber hug.

    Here’s to hoping for the day when we can rid the planet of dreadful disease without anyone suffering ANY long term, negative effect from the cure.

    Be well, SOP babies, commenters and readers.
    love,
    licha <3

  41. December 7, 2013 at 12:15 pm | #41

    @licha – great sentiment…..though if there was evidence that vaccines were responsible for any measure of reaction that is claimed, it would have been found and follow-up upon a long time ago….I feel for those that try to find blame for the blameless – and I feel worse for those that have their lives cut short or suffer disability from diseases that, by all rights, they should never have gotten.

    I also feel for the tens of thousands of women who are afflicted by HPV-derived Cancers and the thousands that lose their lives every year – they are real victims and should be mourned & we should be doing everything in our power to make sure those wives, mothers, & daughters are given the best chance not to suffer those consequences (and should not be belittled or marginalized by anti-vax agendas or activists that consider them nothing more than collateral damage for their own sick purposes).

  42. licha hericane
    December 7, 2013 at 1:03 pm | #42

    Well of course I expected my unbiased condolences to be shot down by someone of sop, but so quickly? Anticipated, but thoughtless on your part, Lawerence. But my well wishes for Christ still stand. Please don’t negate that by your petty need to endlessly promote your pov.

    ps. the precious nirvana fallacy you love to use so much is a mere notion; however if such mere notion were reality, it would work BOTH WAYS. Are some sop members so blind that they can’t conceive that SOME people HAVE been injured by vax? Sheesh…pretty narrow minded. I prefer to think of your nirvana fallacy as any excuse where science can not be unequivocally proved either way. In this instance, one needs to get facts from all sides, make an INFORMED DECISION, as best as humanly possible, and take the best gamble that one intelligently can, since the wrong choice could be devastating to myself or loved ones.

    As sure as you all love to use the phrase…’nirvana fallacy’, pointing out that nothing is PERFECT, you forget that it works AGAINST YOU AS WELL. ;)

    love,
    licha

  43. December 7, 2013 at 1:14 pm | #43

    @licha – yes, nothing is perfect, nor should it be expected to be perfect….and please point out to a single instance here where it has been claimed that vaccine reactions aren’t real?

    What the real difference is, is that we know that the vast majority of reactions are mild & that severe reactions are so rare as to make it difficult to conclusively link them a particular vaccine.

    You can take issue with that – but facts are facts.

    In this case, tens of thousands of women are afflicted HPV-derived Cancer, which kills at least 3000 of them every single year.

    We also know that there are approximately 7 reports in VAERS that list “death” as a reaction to Gardisil. At least two of those reports are “I saw a report on the Internet that someone died” and at least one other is a girl who died in a car accident six months after vaccination.

    So, please quantity your concerns – because the evidence you claim exists, doesn’t.

    Call me a horrible person all you want, because you are the one who is trivializing the deaths of over 30,000 women over the past decade alone.

  44. licha hericane
    December 7, 2013 at 1:47 pm | #44

    To the contrary, I gave condolences to ALL! You missed something in your comprehension. My sympathies even went out to Chris this morning, as she shared her story of her mother. Please don’t misrepresent me, by saying that I’ve trivialized ANYONE.

  45. December 7, 2013 at 1:53 pm | #45

    @licha – putting the same emphasis on “stories” of supposed vaccine injuries as you do on the tens of thousands of real victims of HPV-derived Cancers does trivialize them and their disease.

    Your feigned indignation is getting very old and tired….perhaps you should spend some time in a Cancer ward….then perhaps you’d get a sense of exactly why this vaccine is so important (and perhaps actually read the safety studies too).

    Again, hate me all you want – I’m not the one trivializing these women by comparing them to fictional stories of mass vaccine injuries.

  46. Chris
    December 7, 2013 at 2:12 pm | #46

    Here is another story of a family who lost their mother to cervical cancer: The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks. Beth/Elizabeth, you should really read this book.

  47. licha hericane
    December 7, 2013 at 3:43 pm | #47

    Lawrence :
    @licha –

    Your feigned indignation is getting very old and tired…
    ——————————————————–
    So Lawrence is a mind reader now as well as all mighty authority on vax injury. My sentiment to Chris was REAL when I saw her story this morning; to remind all of us that loved ones die everyday, from preventable diseases as well. But that sentiment was also mirrored for those that HAVE lost loved ones due to vax INJURY….[not vax *reaction* as you sugarcoat]
    licha
    ——————————————————-
    .Perhaps you should spend some time in a Cancer ward….

    ——————————————————–
    Been there, done that with my OWN mother, who I lost in 2006. Perhaps you should have a vax injured child wasting away right in front of you.
    licha
    ———————————————————

    Again, hate me all you want – I’m not the one trivializing these women by comparing them to fictional stories of mass vaccine injuries.

    ——————————————————–
    Lawrence, please show me where I’ve trivialized anyone, in my comments today. You can’t. I haven’t. Thank you for the linker Chris, and I would also like to look into the book you recommend. Be well.
    love,
    licha

  48. Gray Falcon
    December 7, 2013 at 10:11 pm | #48

    licha, you do know we can read your previous comments, don’t you?

  49. Tammy
    December 8, 2013 at 1:29 am | #49

    Well, I’ve just views the videos and read ALL the comments above…I have a 7yr old girl and an 11yr old boy, so this topic has my interest peaked. I have always vaccinated my kids but when I watched the tv program, I must admit, it got my attention – until I read the science cited in these posts. I always THOUGHT the vaccine reporting was only “recorded” if it was found to be a correlation. The fact that “hearsay” can be used, worries me. Now, I will research it on my own. I want to look at the VAERS records and separate fact from fiction. I owe it to my children… I am still leaning (heavily) towards getting them vaccinated, but will look into it while I still have some time to decide. @Chris – although many found your posts abrasive, I will give you kudos for citing facts, and pointing out issues with the VAERS reports.

  50. Chris
    December 8, 2013 at 2:02 am | #50

    Tammy, exactly which posts of mine are “abrasive”?

    I do try to make my posts informative, and do not want to offend. So if you point out the “abrasive” posts I will honestly work to improve. Please give me the comment number and what I said that was offensive. Thank you.

    By the way, Tammy: my daughter went through the HPV series in middle school and nothing happened. She is now in college and doing well. Her older brother got the HPV series a couple of years ago as a college student and seems to be okay (he is about to graduate and has lived away from home since he was 18… but still needs our van to move each and every summer… in what I call the “annual summer migration of the college student”).

    But what are you going to believe, Tammy? The actual vaccine statistics or a TV program?

  51. December 8, 2013 at 11:05 am | #51

    @Chris – I can see where some might not like our “tone” but when confronted by the same lies, misinformation and misinterpretations over and over again – not to mention those individuals that resolutely refuse to provide any evidence whatsoever for their crazy stances, it gets a bit wearing on one’s attitude…..

  52. Mike Brown
    December 11, 2013 at 6:23 pm | #52

    Why are so few news outlets concerned about victims of vaccine damage? Why are they not giving both sides? Yes, Gardasil will prevent infections caused by strains 16 or 18, two out of many, for a limited length of time. Dr. Harper said five years, others say ten. Dr. Harper pointed out that cervical cancer is not a big problem in the US. Read Katie’s blog if you want to read heartbreaking stories by literally hundreds of parents specifically about Gardasil. One girl reacted severely after each of the three shots. You have to work really hard to brush that one off as coincidence. Katie is performing a public service in alerting families to the dangers of Gardasil. Those who want it can get it, of course, but surely it is unethical to act as though Katie should not be allowed to talk about the issue.

    Link to story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/katie-couric/vaccine-hpv-furthering-conversation_b_4418568.html

  53. Chris
    December 11, 2013 at 7:06 pm | #53

    Mr. Brown: “Read Katie’s blog if you want to read heartbreaking stories by literally hundreds of parents specifically about Gardasil.”

    How do they compare to the thousands killed each year by cervical cancer caused by HPV? Why are you dismissing those very real deaths?

    Why did one of those mothers not take her daughter to a cardiologist?

    The point of ethics is to know the actual relative risks, and also that both mothers belong to anti-vax groups. What would have been more ethical would be for Ms. Couric to at least research their backgrounds, and also let those who had lost loved ones to cancers caused by HPV.

  54. Mike Brown
    December 12, 2013 at 1:04 pm | #54

    The difference is Ms. Chris, is that we are intentionally giving a vaccine that causes serious injury. This is something we have control over and can stop.

  55. December 12, 2013 at 2:55 pm | #55

    @Mike – actually, there is no definitive proof that this vaccine has been linked to serious adverse events.

    What we do know, for a fact, is that HPV-derived Cancers kill 3000 women per year…..why do you want those women to keep dying Mike?

  56. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 3:01 pm | #56

    Mr. Brown: “vaccine that causes serious injury”

    Citation needed. You have just made a claim, now you need to provide the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher that the HPV vaccine causes more harm than the cancers caused by the virus.

    Or, Mr. Brown, would you rather see three thousand women die a preventable death than understand that there is very little evidence to link deaths to the vaccine?

  57. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 3:16 pm | #57

    I wonder why Mike Brown is making these claims, when this article and thread is all about the relative risk and lack of data of great harm from the vaccine.

    (also it would be nice if the “Recent Comments” widget was restored)

  58. Mike Brown
    December 12, 2013 at 5:41 pm | #58

    Ms. Chris, so at first you admit the injuries and then ask how it compares to the deaths of supposed HPV cervical cancer. Now you ask for a citation proving the injuries that you already admitted too?

    Is this because you had no logical response to my reply?

  59. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 6:44 pm | #59

    Excuse me? I asked you if you would prefer that three thousand women die of a preventable form of cancer, than understand that there is very little evidence to link deaths the vaccine.

    How is asking for a verifiable scientific citation to support your claim that this ““vaccine that causes serious injury” not logical. You made the claim of it being a ““vaccine that causes serious injury”, so you must support that claim.

    Please post the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher that the vaccine causes more harm than the cancers caused by HPV.

    The word “more” means that the vaccine needs to cause more injuries than the number of HPV related cancers each year, a number that is over ten thousand. Also it means you need to show the vaccine causes more death than the cervical cancer, which is about three thousand per year. That does not include the numbers of anal, throat, penile and other cancers caused by the HPV strains in the Gardasil vaccine.

    Now please provide that evidence.

  60. Lawrence
    December 12, 2013 at 6:49 pm | #60

    @mb – logic or comprehension isn’t your strong suit.

    Provide your evidence or proof that those “injury stories” are in fact a result of the vaccine……

    And then compare the rate of serious reactions against the thousands of women that die every year of Cervical Cancer……

  61. Lawrence
    December 12, 2013 at 6:53 pm | #61

    @chris – it isn’t even about “more” as he needs to provide actual documented proof that “any” of those supposedly reactions were a result of the vaccine…..

    Vaccine reactions do happen, but we know from the multitude of safety studies that have been done and are being done currently that serious reactions are incredibly rare….. So MB, please show us the evidence to the contrary.

  62. Mike Brown
    December 12, 2013 at 7:14 pm | #62

    Ms. Chris,
    “How is asking for a verifiable scientific citation to support your claim that this ““vaccine that causes serious injury” not logical.”
    It’s not logical because you already admitted the injuries do happen. Now you should prove to me that those vaccine injuries are worth the over-all good. Otherwise, the vaccine should be shelved. I do not believe this vaccine serves the common good. And if somebody I know was injured by this vaccine I would be absolutely livid.

    Lawrence, I won’t be conversing with somebody who hurls insults for no apparent reason.

  63. Lawrence
    December 12, 2013 at 7:18 pm | #63

    @mb – I guess my questions are too hard for you to answer.

  64. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 7:24 pm | #64

    Mr. Brown: “It’s not logical because you already admitted the injuries do happen.”

    Please point to the comment that makes you think that I am admitting injuries do happen at a rate greater than the cancers caused by the HPV virus.

  65. licha hericane
    December 12, 2013 at 7:31 pm | #65

    I guess his WORDS ARE TO HARD FOR YOU to comprehend. Mike said that he won’t converse with one who insults for no apparent reason. How *did* you come to your unfounded assertion Lawrence?

    ps. take the 2nd o from your to, so I don’t have to INSULT your snarky remark for its’ grammar too! ;)

    love,
    licha

  66. December 12, 2013 at 7:35 pm | #66

    I guess MB doesn’t like it when people call into question his ability to comprehend, when he clearly didn’t understand what Chris had said…….and licha – you are not one who should be complaining about anyone’s grammar (much less a very minor misspelling).

  67. Mike Brown
    December 12, 2013 at 7:45 pm | #67

    Here you go Ms. Chris.

    “Mr. Brown: “Read Katie’s blog if you want to read heartbreaking stories by literally hundreds of parents specifically about Gardasil.”

    How do they compare to the thousands killed each year by cervical cancer caused by HPV? Why are you dismissing those very real deaths?”

    I believe the “they” in the 2nd group are referring to vaccine injuries.

  68. December 12, 2013 at 8:29 pm | #68

    @MB – that’s why you fail at reading comprehension – you are comparing “stories” to actual facts…..

  69. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 8:45 pm | #69

    “I believe the “they” in the 2nd group are referring to vaccine injuries.”

    No, I am referring to the cervical cancer deaths. That is because the second question comes after the first one, and “those” refers to the subject of the preceding sentence. At no time did I make a claim the deaths are from the vaccine.

    Now, it seems you owe my a PubMed indexed study from a reputable qualified researcher that the HPV vaccine causes more harm than the cancers caused by the actual HPV virus.

  70. licha hericane
    December 12, 2013 at 8:51 pm | #70

    Failing Lawrence. I got A’s in grammar. I only point out what would normally be trivial, because the comment came from someone who just insulted someone else’s comprehension. And you’re at it again. But you’re right. You failed TWICE. Once for spelling error and twice for grammatical concept.

    I wouldn’t be faulting others comprehension if I were YOU Lawrence.

  71. December 12, 2013 at 8:57 pm | #71

    @Liche – see, I deal in actual facts and am pointing out the fallacies presented by others using real evidence….you, on the other hand, have been reduced to childish insults.

    How sad.

  72. Mike Brown
    December 12, 2013 at 9:01 pm | #72

    Ms. Chris,

    “No, I am referring to the cervical cancer deaths.”

    Ok, I just placed “cervical cancer deaths” in place of “they” for you.

    Here’s how the sentence reads:
    “How do (cervical cancer deaths) compare to the thousands killed each year by cervical cancer caused by HPV?

    You’re not making much sense!

  73. licha hericane
    December 12, 2013 at 9:03 pm | #73

    Chris, Mike was speaking of those on gardasil when you answered him. When you referred to his quote and answered with ‘they’, it would have referred to the vax users he spoke of in his quote you had highlighted.

  74. December 12, 2013 at 9:03 pm | #74

    @Mike – how do “unproven” stories compare to the thousands killed each year by cervical Cancer caused by HPV?

    How about answering that question? Or is it above your grade level?

  75. licha hericane
    December 12, 2013 at 9:06 pm | #75

    Lawrence :
    @mb – logic or comprehension isn’t your strong suit.

    OUCH and ooopsie! First blood anyone?

  76. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 9:08 pm | #76

    Licha, which is why I specifically asked how they compared to the “thousands killed each year by cervical cancer caused by HPV..”

    HPV stands for Human Papillomavirus. It means the virus not the vaccine.

    Now please provide the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher that the harm from the HPV vaccine is greater than the cancers caused by HPV (the actual virus).

  77. December 12, 2013 at 9:11 pm | #77

    Again, how sad….

  78. licha hericane
    December 12, 2013 at 9:18 pm | #78

    @ Lawrence… the onus is on you. Prove that the ‘thousands’ killed by hpv would have lived had they been vaxed! Proooooove it!.. Citations needed ,IF it’s not above YOUR grade level.

  79. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 9:28 pm | #79

    I am sorry, Ms. Hericane, but Mr. Brown made a claim, so it is up to him to provide the evidence for that claim. He said the HPV “vaccine that causes serious injury.” Now he is trying to get out of answering my literally changing the wording of my comments.

    If anyone is going to claim the HPV vaccine causes serious injury, then they need to come up with proof for that claim.

    Because we already have evidence in the article above, and from CDC statistics, that HPV (the actual virus) causes over ten thousand cancers each year, resulting about three thousand deaths from cervical cancer.

    Where is the evidence that the HPV vaccine causes more harm than the cancers caused by the actual virus?

    If you keep on changing my words, and pretending a lack of reading comprehension, we will then assume that particular bit of evidence does not exist.

  80. licha hericane
    December 12, 2013 at 9:39 pm | #80

    Chris, I can’t help you if you don’t understand either of the analogies presented to you. However, Mike spells it out best. You quoted him speaking of the vax injured and you answered with ‘they’.

    Chris :
    Mr. Brown: “Read Katie’s blog if you want to read heartbreaking stories by literally hundreds of parents specifically about Gardasil.”
    How do they compare to the thousands killed each year by cervical cancer caused by HPV?

    One may think you to be comparing deaths of gardasil to deaths of hpv when your reply was worded as such. This may be how Mike was under the impression that you admitted to vax injury. And I do know what hpv is, but thank you for that Chris.

  81. December 12, 2013 at 9:41 pm | #81

    @licha – with you, it has been shown that we can’t assume that you know much of anything…..

  82. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 9:49 pm | #82

    Actually, I am quoting Mr. Brown. That is what those two little lines at the start end of the sentence mean. A quote goes something like this: “This is a quote.” Okay? Do you understand?

    I am asking how those “stories” compare to the thousands killed each year by the cervical cancer causes by HPV (the actual virus).

    Now, that I have made clear multiple times that I believe the cancers from HPV (the actual virus) are much greater than what have even been reported for the vaccine. And we will note that the reported injuries have not been verified. In fact, it has been established that one story involved a young lady with an abnormal heart beat.

    Now, please Mr. Brown, provide the proof for your statement that the HPV vaccine is ” a vaccine that causes serious injury.” (note, Ms. Hericane that the part of the sentence between the quote marks (“), are direct quotes by Mr. Brown… is shows he is making a claim that the vaccine causes serious injury)

    You can do that by providing the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher that the HPV vaccine causes more injury than the cancers caused by HPV (the actual virus).

  83. December 12, 2013 at 10:05 pm | #83

    @Chris – I will also point out the multiple VAERS entries that consist solely of “Respondent saw a report on the Internet of a Gardisil death.”

    Not exactly rocket science…or any science at all.

  84. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 10:08 pm | #84

    Well, Lawrence, that is exactly why I am asking for a PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher. I want the science, not semantics.

  85. licha hericane
    December 12, 2013 at 10:18 pm | #85

    Lawrence :
    @licha – with you, it has been shown that we can’t assume that you know much of anything…..

    huh??? you look arrogant, immature and foolish Lawrence.
    —————————————————-
    Chris, you didn’t initially say ‘stories’, you said ‘they’, and your reply can easily be understood as comparing deaths to deaths, since there are BOTH vax related and hpv related deaths involved in these ‘stories’.

    ps. Chris, there’s a little blue ‘quote’ in the right top. Perhaps someday you’ll ‘UNDERSTAND’ how to USE it. I understand quotes just fine.

    pss. we got your science… just get congress to change the laws to hold pharma responsible for their injuries, without threat of pulling all vax. – hmmmm…. how did THAT happen anyway?It ain’t semantics babies, it’s the LAW! But of course you already KNOW all that, and bank on it as well.

    Another day of fun and games here at ‘shot of pretensions’.
    Goodnight pretentious babies. ;)

    love,
    licha

  86. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 10:21 pm | #86

    Ms. Hericane. please stop with the semantics. Now you just wrote: “just get congress to change the laws to hold pharma responsible for their injuries, without threat of pulling all vax.”

    Now you have made a claim about vaccine injuries. Please post the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher that the HPV vaccine causes more harm than the cancers caused by HPV (the actual virus).

  87. licha hericane
    December 12, 2013 at 11:32 pm | #87

    Doh!!! Now Chris, you are just being silly. Go back 3 pages to the vicp article. It’s all spelled out right there for you. Congress, tort reform for big pharma, having to go through vcip before court; I could go on & on but I’m in my jammies. Good night silly Chris. Sleep well.;)

  88. Chris
    December 12, 2013 at 11:36 pm | #88

    I’m sorry? Because you cannot prove the claim that the HPV vaccine is more dangerous than the cancers caused by the HPV virus, you are now both changing the subject and calling me names.

  89. licha hericane
    December 13, 2013 at 12:21 am | #89

    Huh?

    Chris :
    Ms. Hericane. please stop with the semantics. Now you just wrote: “just get congress to change the laws to hold pharma responsible for their injuries, without threat of pulling all vax.”

    Chris :
    I’m sorry? Because you cannot prove the claim that the HPV vaccine is more dangerous than the cancers caused by the HPV virus, you are now both changing the subject and calling me names.

    hmmm, I can’t find where I mention hpv in my statement which you quote above Chris. Not seeing where I said the words ‘hpv vax is more dangerous than cancers of hpv’, ‘CAUSE I NEVER SAID THEM!. I mention vaccine INJURY COMPENSATION program, as pretensions does often, and there is an article on sop 3 pages back.

    I’m sorry too, that pretensions is laughable with their overly enthusiastic pubmed mentality and being incapable of thinking ‘outside the pub’. I’m sorry that I’m compelled to call you silly by your acts of silliness. But I feel my decorum is justified. I could have said much worse, because you are being ridiculous. Good night Chris. I hope all the pieces fit better for you tomorrow.

    ps. when ‘ya say hpv you don’t have to say ‘virus’ behind it. ;)

  90. Chris
    December 13, 2013 at 12:48 am | #90

    It does not matter if you mentioned it or not, it is the subject of this article. Do not change the subject and do not use insults as evidence.

    Now, please give the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher that the HPV vaccine causes greater injury than the cancers caused by the virus.

  91. novalox
    December 13, 2013 at 3:23 am | #91

    @licha

    Yawn, at least we know that by your use of insults, you admit that you admit that Chris is right and you are wrong.

    Why should we believe anyone who resorts to petty insults instead of posting actual evidence?

    But please, keep attempting to throw out more insults I do admit it is fun seeing a petty, infantile, little anti-vaxxer liar like you try to denigrate others, which shows the bankruptcy of your position.

    Keep posting, I need some entertainment, and you seem like the perfect fool for some cheap laughs.

  92. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 10:06 am | #92

    licha, why aren’t you providing the evidence we’re asking for? Can you give me any legitimate reason why you would withhold information that could save people’s lives?

  93. licha hericane
    December 13, 2013 at 12:12 pm | #93

    Aw! Novalax. I missed you too. However, you’re WRONG in stating that I admit that Chris is RIGHT and I’m WRONG. ;)

    How ’bout you THREE ‘pretensions’ put your heads together, and PROVE to me and the world, that those who *died* from hpv, would have LIVED had they been VAXED.

    At the risk of redundantly repeating myself, ‘applause, applause… thank you very much’, ’cause we know THAT ain’t gunna’ happen.

    Also, Mike brought up an excellent point yesterday. ANY premature death, especially of a child, is a horrific experience. But even more so when you actually inject the cause of death into the child you’re trying to protect. Those parents, [along with parents of ALL vax death/ injuries] have to relive that fact everyday; questioning the odds of contracting hpv/illness in the first place, and if so, would it have proven fatal.

    ps. Falcon, I’m still on non speaking terms with you. My reply button to you is set on ‘ignore’.

  94. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 12:14 pm | #94

    So you admit you don’t have an answer, licha? Because even the most charitable interpretation of your actions makes you look monstrous.

  95. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 12:40 pm | #95

    By the way, we can’t prove “to me and the world, that those who *died* from hpv, would have LIVED had they been VAXED.” No mortal being can, and you know that.

  96. December 13, 2013 at 12:44 pm | #96

    @Gray – licha once again falls victim to the Nirvana & Perfect World fallacies….while we can’t do anything for those women who died, we can continue to move forward with the current crop of HPV vaccines (and future vaccines) to protect girls and women that are alive today, but at risk.

    That is worth fighting for & combating the idiocy from people like Mike & Licha.

  97. licha hericane
    December 13, 2013 at 1:07 pm | #97

    Lawrence, recite your nirvana crap to the parents of gardasil deaths. You are the one living the fantasy. Perhaps you’d feel differently had you lost a child due gardasil opposed to hpv.

    Have a nice day pretentious babies.

  98. licha hericane
    December 13, 2013 at 1:14 pm | #98

    ps. thank you for ADMITTING that you CAN’T PROOOOOVE that those hpv deaths would have been avoided with vax which has caused death

    toodles for now pretensions….. having my old dental fillings removed… ;)

  99. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 1:26 pm | #99

    licha, did it ever occur to you that making unreasonable demands doesn’t help your case? Why aren’t you providing the evidence we’re requesting? Do you consider your pride more important than human life?

  100. reissd
    December 13, 2013 at 1:27 pm | #100

    I’d admit I find Licha’s glee at the thought of dead cancer victims very disturbing.
    Licha, we can’t go back and reexamine those cases. And no vaccine is 100% safe. These vaccines have shown high levels of effectiveness against strains of HPV that cause over 70% of cancer. That is strong evidence they will prevent those infections, and the following cancers and deaths.

  101. Chris
    December 13, 2013 at 1:39 pm | #101

    By the way, a recent preliminary study in Australia shows that the HPV vaccine is preventing pre-cancerous lesions in young women. From Impact of a population-based HPV vaccination program on cervical abnormalities: a data linkage study:

    A population-based HPV vaccination program in schools significantly reduced cervical abnormalities for vaccinated women within five years of implementation, with the greatest vaccine effectiveness observed for the youngest women.

  102. novalox
    December 13, 2013 at 2:03 pm | #102

    @licha

    Again, thank you for admitting that I am morally superior to you in every respect, that you admit again and again that the regulars here are right and you are wrong, and that you are nothing but a “pretentious baby” that cannot give a whit of evidence to support your conspiracy theories.

    The thought of you cheering for people to die of cancer is very disturbing, but then what would I expect from a anti-vax liar and infantile individual like you.

    But please, keep on attempting your puerile insults. I do find it entertaining that you cannot come up with anything else, and I can show others that you and your ilk typify the usual anti-vax mindset. Trust me, my friends and coworkers have been turned off by you and your ilk’s antics here and elsewhere.

    I also need my cheap laughs, and you provide a plenty.

    @Gray

    Well, what else would you expect from a proven liar like licha? I’m just waiting for her to put up another ill-written rant, just for the utter lulz.

  103. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 2:29 pm | #103

    Ms. Chris, you admitted that the vaccine causes injuries. Why don’t you prove to me that all of those injuries are worth the over-all good? That those people that are sacrificing for the benefit of others are worth it? You have not proven this to me. I do not believe that all of those injuries and deaths are worth what you claim the benefits of the vaccine to be. They should take this off of the market immediately. Those injuries are on your hands Ms. Chris and it makes me sick. Very, very sick.

  104. December 13, 2013 at 2:52 pm | #104

    @Mike – there is a difference between the mild adverse reactions that have been documented & confirmed vs. the “stories” you present that are entirely unconfirmed.

    The only sick person here is you – that you seem to think that thousands of deaths from Cancer is no big deal….

  105. December 13, 2013 at 2:57 pm | #105

    @Mike – and what “deaths?” There hasn’t been a singled verified death from any of the HPV vaccines……in VAERS, most of the entries are such like “Respondent saw a report on the Internet that someone died.” If you don’t believe me, look it up yourself.

  106. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 3:22 pm | #106

    Mike, thousands die from automobile accidents each year. Should we ban cars?

  107. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 3:31 pm | #107

    Gray Falcon, if you choose not to drive because you have fear of being in an auto accident then that is your own right. Otherwise, drive at your own risk.

  108. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 3:34 pm | #108

    You believe it is all right to poison people and injure them, thinking that it helps others. Assuming it does help others (and I’m not convinced) it is still not right to be poisoning and injuring the others. It really blows my mind that people think this logic is OK. It is not.

  109. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 3:40 pm | #109

    Good point, Mike. Refusing to drive has little effect on anyone else. By refusing to vaccinate, you put others at risk. Thanks for providing further evidence in support of vaccination!

  110. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 3:42 pm | #110

    Mike, we aren’t saying it’s alright to poison and injure people, we’re saying vaccination is nowhere near as risky as you claim it is. Why are you misrepresenting our position?

  111. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 3:49 pm | #111

    Gray, you choose to ignore the evidence. There are many people being injured by this vaccine. You don’t need to wait for a pub med study to come out. In the mean time many lives are being destroyed. Stop this vaccine now.

  112. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 3:50 pm | #112

    BTW Gray, refusing this vaccine effects nobody else.

  113. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 4:01 pm | #113

    Mike Brown :
    Gray, you choose to ignore the evidence. There are many people being injured by this vaccine. You don’t need to wait for a pub med study to come out. In the mean time many lives are being destroyed. Stop this vaccine now.

    If that’s true, you should have no problem providing proof of this. Why aren’t you? What do you have to lose from giving us information that could save peoples’ lives? Do you not care enough about them?

    Mike Brown :
    BTW Gray, refusing this vaccine effects nobody else.

    Diseases are contagious. If you can’t even comprehend that, perhaps you shouldn’t be posting.

  114. Chris
    December 13, 2013 at 4:02 pm | #114

    Mr. Brown: “Ms. Chris, you admitted that the vaccine causes injuries.”

    So what? The known injuries are mild pain in the arm and some fainting. But young women often faint with minor needle pricks, including giving blood. You are making the claim “There are many people being injured by this vaccine.”

    Now provide the evidence hat the injuries are more than the cancers caused by the virus. Post the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher that the HPV vaccine causes more than ten thousand serious injuries and three thousand deaths per year. Those are the very real injuries and deaths caused by the virus.

    Here is another question: provide a proven way to prevent the more than ten thousand cases of HPV caused cancers each year. Do not mentin getting PAP smears, because that only detects a cancer after it has started. I want you to tell us how to prevent those cancers.

  115. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 4:02 pm | #115

    Gray, you have seen the proof already, and I didn’t realize that cancer was contagious.

  116. December 13, 2013 at 4:05 pm | #116

    @Mike – actually no, we haven’t seen the proof. We’ve heard a lot of people claim they have proof, but when you look at it closely, they actually don’t.

    Science is science for a reason – because we don’t believe in superstitions anymore.

  117. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 4:08 pm | #117

    Ms. Chris, “Now provide the evidence that the injuries are more than the cancers caused by the virus.”
    That’s a trick question because you have to prove that the vaccine actually works and works well. You have not convinced me that is the case. Until there is no doubt about how amazingly effective this vaccine works and helps people, it will never be worth the risk of the injuries it is causing.

    “Here is another question: provide a proven way to prevent the more than ten thousand cases of HPV caused cancers each year.”
    Again, because I don’t have a better way of doing this, does not mean your way is acceptable or the right way and should be used.

  118. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 4:09 pm | #118

    Mike Brown :
    Gray, you have seen the proof already, and I didn’t realize that cancer was contagious.

    Mike, the HPV is what causes the cancer, and that’s what’s contagious. If you’re making elementary errors like that, perhaps you need to study more before commenting.

  119. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 4:10 pm | #119

    Mike, if you read the article, you would have seen a link to this page:
    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/06/18/infdis.jit192.abstract

    There’s our proof. Your turn.

  120. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 4:11 pm | #120

    Lawrence, as a reminder, I won’t be conversing with you, so don’t expect to get any replies from your questions to me.

  121. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 4:14 pm | #121

    Gray, here is one site of hundreds dedicated to this cause http://truthaboutgardasil.org/

  122. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 4:16 pm | #122

    Mike, anyone can set up a web page:
    http://theflatearthsociety.org/‎
    I’m going to need better than that.

  123. December 13, 2013 at 4:30 pm | #123

    Sorry I scare you so much with such pointed questions which you are unable to answer…and yes, you still have a huge lack of comprehension….

  124. Chris
    December 13, 2013 at 4:39 pm | #124

    Mr. Brown, you have not provided any proof of injuries from the vaccine. The only thing you have proven is that you have no clue about the science and the issues. You have done this by posting a biased website instead of posting actual science, and you have ignored the two scientific links given in the last few hours.

    I would suggest, Mr. Brown, that you learn to not make statements and claims on subject that you do not understand. Perhaps you can start educating yourself on the issues by taking some basic biology and statistics courses.

  125. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 5:24 pm | #125

    Gray, I’m not here to convince those who can’t see the big picture. There are hundreds of sites just like that and if you want to belittle them that is your prerogative. I on the other hand look at all of the evidence presented. I don’t wait for official PubMed studies. I see people being injured now and believe action should be taken to get this vaccine off of the market.

    Chris, I highly suggest to that you start opening up your eyes and to start listening to the people. There are many people being injured by this vaccine and you choose to ignore anything that isn’t a PubMed study. Why the tunnel vision and denial? Open up and exam all of the evidence including anecdotal evidence and then make a good reasonable decision.

  126. December 13, 2013 at 5:34 pm | #126

    @Mike – you don’t have any actual proof, do you? Stories are just stories….in a lot of cases, made up by anti-vax people to try to scare….you may not like it, but the Science has shown that this vaccine is very effective and incredibly safe….just because you say its not, doesn’t make it so – so please stop making stupid blanket assertions without evidence.

  127. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 5:35 pm | #127

    Mike, there were thousands of reports in Europe during the Middle Ages about witches causing stillbirths and suchlike. Were they right to burn witches?

  128. John Smith
    December 13, 2013 at 5:42 pm | #128

    I am not asking you to burn anybody Gray Flacon.

  129. John Smith
    December 13, 2013 at 5:43 pm | #129

    Mike Brown, do you have contact info? I would like to speak with you.

  130. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 5:45 pm | #130

    John, I don’t want to give any of my information out over this site. If you have another way, let me know and I would be happy to help.

  131. December 13, 2013 at 5:45 pm | #131

    Wait – did one sock puppet just ask another sock puppet for contact info?

  132. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 5:46 pm | #132

    Gray Falcon, I agree with John. Nobody is asking you to burn anybody. Please come up with another analogy that makes sense.

  133. John Smith
    December 13, 2013 at 5:47 pm | #133

    Lawrence, I see you are harassing people on this page as well. Mike, we are discussing flu on the other article and Lawrence is friendly there too.

  134. Skipper
    December 13, 2013 at 5:52 pm | #134

    This site is whacked. I don’t know what to think with all of these comments. Does anybody have any other resources for good information? Thank you!

  135. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 5:56 pm | #135

    Mike/John: People can die from cancer. You are asking me to risk lives by inaction. My analogy still stands. Also, asking for evidence isn’t harassment, it’s good sense. Anyone can post a webpage, there’s a reason we have standards. Remember the Flat Earth Society?

    Skipper: Try Respectful Insolence: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence. Better moderation policy.

  136. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 6:01 pm | #136

    Gray Falcon, when there are many, many people complaining of injuries caused by XXX why do you choose to ignore them? You really think all of these people are making it up and/or don’t know any better? I’ve seen this happen in pharma. Drugs hurting people and they don’t pull them until thousands have been injured. Why do those thousands have to suffer while they are being slow to do something or are in denial that it is happening? The lack of concern for these injuries is very perplexing to me.

  137. December 13, 2013 at 6:05 pm | #137

    @Mike – don’t you think those people have been listened to? Why do you think their are post-release surveillance and follow-up studies being done? Why are there several mechanisms for identifying and researching adverse reactions?

    Don’t come in here & claim that the work isn’t being done – because it is – and when the results get published, we don’t find the kinds of things you claim to know….

    How about coming up with some real evidence, because otherwise, Gray’s analogy is correct – you are assuming those stories are true without making sure that they are…..

  138. December 13, 2013 at 6:06 pm | #138

    @Mike – also, hundreds of people claim they’ve been poisoned by Chemtrails – do you believe them too?

    How about all of the people who claim they’ve seen UFOs? (in fact, more people believe in UFOs than believe in vaccine causing autism, for example)

  139. Skipper
    December 13, 2013 at 6:07 pm | #139

    @Gray Falcon
    Thank you. I will check this resource out.
    -S

  140. December 13, 2013 at 6:09 pm | #140

    @Skipper – I also heartily recommend this:

    http://antiantivax.flurf.net/

  141. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 6:11 pm | #141

    Lawrence, I believe those people haven’t been listened to based on your answers in this discussion.
    Chem trails are real, and yes I believe there are other beings out there somewhere. So your point is?

  142. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 6:13 pm | #142
  143. Skipper
    December 13, 2013 at 6:16 pm | #143

    @Lawrence and Mike

    Thank you too.
    -S

  144. John Smith
    December 13, 2013 at 6:24 pm | #144

    Mike, I think I found your contact info on that other site. Let me know if you get something from me.

    Licha, I wish I had a way to get in touch with you as well.

  145. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 6:34 pm | #145

    John, yes!

  146. December 13, 2013 at 6:36 pm | #146

    @mike – that last statement just told us all we need to know….you can go back to stop responding to me now….I don’t do “crazy.”

  147. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 6:39 pm | #147

    The Chem Trails or we’re not alone in the universe?
    The government has already talked about the chem trails and you can see them with your own eyes. And if I believe there are other life forms out there then I am crazy? Well then so are many brilliant people much smarter than you or I.

  148. Chris
    December 13, 2013 at 6:44 pm | #148

    Mike Brown: “There are many people being injured by this vaccine and you choose to ignore anything that isn’t a PubMed study.”

    Actually, this and the links in comment #142 show that you really do not have a clue. Obviously you and your socks are now just trolling, and you really really do not care about cancer victims.

  149. December 13, 2013 at 6:46 pm | #149

    @Mike – yeah, just keep up the crazy there…again, now you can stop talking to me again….the sky isn’t blue on your planet, is it?

  150. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 6:49 pm | #150

    Ms. Chris, I care about cancer victims, there is cancer in my family. On the contrary, your comments suggest you care nothing about the vaccine injured, or fixing a problem that does exist. To allow a vaccine to be used that hurts people.

  151. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 6:49 pm | #151

    That’s what I thought Lawrence. You got nothing.

  152. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 6:52 pm | #152

    The question that comes to mind about chemtrails: If the government has the means to covertly spread chemicals in such a way, why haven’t they used it to win any wars? More on topic, anyone who’s willing to believe stories about chemtrails is probably too gullible to post on modern medicine/

  153. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 7:00 pm | #153

    Actually, the government calls it GeoEngineering and according to them, this is altering the weather and saving us from Global Warming. This is their words, not mine.

  154. December 13, 2013 at 7:22 pm | #154

    @Gray – he’s Grade A crazy….best to just ignore him.

  155. Chris
    December 13, 2013 at 7:23 pm | #155

    Mr. Brown: “To allow a vaccine to be used that hurts people.”

    So you would rather not prevent the over ten thousand cases of cancer caused each by the HPV just because you don’t like the vaccine? You have not presented any real data to show that it hurts people more than the cancer.

  156. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 7:28 pm | #156

    Chris, it doesn’t have to hurt more people than the cancer. That’s what you can’t seem to figure out. At what point is this OK. Let’s see the vaccine we believe saved 10 people and it only injured 9 people so it is ok? Ridiculous! You are purposely hurting people with this vaccine. Nobody is purposely hurting people with Cancer. Cancer is hurting people.

  157. December 13, 2013 at 7:31 pm | #157

    @Crazy MB – you tell us what would be acceptable? 1 adverse reaction in 1000, 10,000, 1 million?

    What is acceptable to you?

  158. Chris
    December 13, 2013 at 7:37 pm | #158

    Mike Brown: ” Let’s see the vaccine we believe saved 10 people and it only injured 9 people so it is ok?”

    You are making a claim that the HPV vaccine injures almost half of those who get it. Please provide the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher showing that the HPV vaccine has injured nine out of the nineteen who have received the vaccine, or 47%.

    “Nobody is purposely hurting people with Cancer. Cancer is hurting people.”

    You really need to get some appropriate education. You may have to start with remedial reading comprehension, then some basic biology and a beginner’s course in statistics.

  159. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 7:37 pm | #159

    Really Lawrence?

    Care to prove that GeoEngineering doesn’t exist and that the US Government denies it?

    Care to provide proof that we on planet earth are the only beings anywhere?

    Lawrence, I don’t think you are crazy if choose not to believe in other life forms. That’s the difference between you and me.

    I take it you don’t believe in any higher powers either. Guess what, that’s fine with me. I’m not going to call you crazy Lawrence.

  160. Mike Brown
    December 13, 2013 at 7:40 pm | #160

    I never made a claim that the vaccine injures half of those who get it? I think your comprehension skills are the ones that should be in question. I would love for you to show me where I made this claim?

  161. novalox
    December 13, 2013 at 9:43 pm | #161

    @mike

    Why should we believe you, when you won’t present any evidence for your “assertions”?

    Let’s see, provide actual scientific evidence within 3 posts, or we can all assume that you have no actual evidence, and that you have been lying the entire time to the regulars here.

  162. Gray Falcon
    December 13, 2013 at 11:16 pm | #162

    It’s clear Mike doesn’t understand the concept of “burden of proof”.

  163. licha hericane
    December 14, 2013 at 11:28 am | #163

    Pretentions, please PROOOOVE…. that the hpv deaths would have been saved had they been vaxed. Also PROOOVE that vax has NEVER caused serious, lifelong injury or death. Tit for tat – STALEMATE.

    Pretensions is also quite aware of the tort reform that protects SCIENCE from bringing lawsuits against pharma. Why is that pretensions? Again, it’s your site and YOU are soliciting your pov to the innocent public. The burden to PROOOOVE that vax never harms, is on YOU!

    Thank you for the new linkers Mike

    Enter this site with caution boys and girls. And remember, anyone who calls someone who isn’t a liar, a liar, is a liar. ;)

  164. licha hericane
    December 14, 2013 at 12:14 pm | #164

    reissd :
    I’d admit I find Licha’s glee at the thought of dead cancer victims very disturbing.

    I admit that YOUR GLEE for the thought of dead or life long vax injuries is very disturbing as well. Where is your empathy for them? Please take your head from you know where, as I NEVER even alluded to such a stupid notion.

    <blockquote The thought of you cheering for people to die of cancer is very disturbing,

    Back at you Lax. The thought of you CHEERING for the VAX INJURED AND DEAD is very disturbing. *Injecting* misconceptions into commenters posts is a SHOT of ‘pretensions’ game.

  165. Gray Falcon
    December 14, 2013 at 12:59 pm | #165

    Anyone wondering if licha’s upset she can’t post in Comic Sans?

  166. novalox
    December 14, 2013 at 1:26 pm | #166

    @licha

    Again, thank you for admitting that you would rather have people die of cancer than prevent it in the first place with a vaccine, and also, thank for for admitting that the vaccine is much more safer than not taking it, since you cannot actually field a half-coherent argument.

    Also, thanks for admitting that you have been lying the entire time, you admit defeat, I have always told the truth and you have always been lying, and that you admit that I have always been right and you have always been wrong.

    Please keep continuing to post. Your inchoate rage that you have lost and serve only as a prime example of the moral bankruptcy of the anti-vax side is utterly amusing, and you only serve as cheap amusement for me and the other regulars.

    You do serve as purpose after all, showing others how little actual science the anti-vax side has at all, and you are a perfect example of a typical anti-vaxxer for me to show others.

  167. Gray Falcon
    December 14, 2013 at 2:04 pm | #167

    By the way, licha, people will probably take you more seriously if you learn how to read and write in English.

  168. licha hericane
    December 14, 2013 at 4:33 pm | #168

    How many of your *imaginary* BADGES AND MEDALS have you deluded yourself with lately Lax? As promised previously, I’ll try to be around as much as possible to *inject* your DOSE of comedic reality. Pretensions is certainly my INSPIRATION for laughable material.

    It seems there’s a little birdie [big BIRD] trying to insult my english. First, I’m quite happy with my self esteem [only minus the blatant, unearned arrogance of Lax] and the same goes for my past scholarly achievements. Second, the BIRD must not have *understood* the message from a few posts back. Insult away. Lalalalala! I don’t HEAR COMMENTS OF ANITI-CURES.

    If I DID, I would ask why they speak with ‘forked’ vax tongue. It’s fine for people to get sick or die to try to prevent disease with vax, per their logic; but NOT to search for and utilize cure/treatments/and PREVENTIONS??? for a.s.d.’s. What a hypocritical double standard. Persona non grata to me ANTI-CURE… Go play on your neuro diversity sites. :(

    Must run for now. Santa’s expecting me in the workshop to help make choo choo’s and dollies for the ALL the kiddies of the world… vaxed and non-vaxed. Santa and I know no prejudice unlike so many closed minded, biased, lying haters. So be good all you boys and girls and pretentious babies.

    Have a great day shot of pretensions, [members, commenters, ambivalent readers] and to ‘ALL A GOOD NIGHT!’

    ps. anyone who calls someone who isn’t a liar, a liar, is a LIAR! ;)

  169. novalox
    December 14, 2013 at 4:40 pm | #169

    @licha

    Again, thank you for admitting that you are lying, and that you admit that you can never be trusted with the truth.

    I admit, you are laughable that all you can do is insult and that you cannot provide any proof. All of your insults that you have tried to make is just more proof that you cannot tell the truth and that you admit that the regulars here tell the truth and are more trustworthy than you can ever hope to be.

    But at least you admit that you admire me. I do appreciate the effort, however pathetic it may be, for your insults. It just tells me that you have nothing and your position is untenable.

    So please, keep posting. Show the world how irrational you really are. I relish every pathetic insult you attempt, as it is an admission by you that you lose each and every time.

    I do need my entertainment, and so far, however clumsy you have done, you provide a plenty of laughs for me and the regulars.

  170. Gray Falcon
    December 14, 2013 at 4:45 pm | #170

    licha, read a book. Or a newspaper, or even a magazine. Notice how they write things. Notice how similar it is to what we write. Notice how different it is from what you write. Note how people quit trying to understand what you are attempting to say. Have you ever thought about why?

  171. Osmond
    December 15, 2013 at 10:28 pm | #171

    We’re winning the battle here it Utah. There is no interest in this vaccine, so they can’t afford to carry it!!
    http://preventdisease.com/news/13/121513_Utah-Public-Health-Bans-Gardasil-Vaccine.shtml

  172. reissd
    December 15, 2013 at 10:31 pm | #172

    Unfortunately, one health official in Utah did decide not to stick the vaccine, denying protection against HPV infections that can cause cancer to Utah’s residents. Not because of safety concerns – there are none – but for costs. It is sad to think of those that will get cancer because of this bad decision.

  173. reissd
    December 15, 2013 at 10:34 pm | #173

    It’s important to remember that this is not a game. Lack of a vaccine’s protection means suffering, harms and lives lost. This is why it’s important for us to speak up and highlight the impressive safety and effectiveness data behind this – and other – vaccines.

  174. Chris
    December 15, 2013 at 11:23 pm | #174

    Osmond: “There is no interest in this vaccine, so they can’t afford to carry it!!”

    It was only public health clinics. And according to that linked article at least some parents know how to face reality: “At 42 percent, Utah ranks lowest in the nation for completion of the three-injection series among girls who start it. The national rate is 71 percent, according to the National Immunization Survey.”

    Sure, many have to pay for it. But I know I paid the almost $400 for my college age son to reduce the chance of him getting HPV related cancers and passing the virus on to a young woman…. because I love my son, and I would never want him to inadvertantly cause harm to anyone (and I am exceptionally proud that he took it upon himself to get the last two doses on his own… it helps the clinic is just block from his job). I am glad that almost half (and over a third) of the population of Utah cares about science and the future health of their children.

    Osmond, what is your reasoning? If you think the vaccine causes harm, then provide the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher that either of the HPV vaccines causes more harm than the cancers caused by the actual virus. That means injuries being greater than ten thousand per year, and more than three thousand deaths per year (and that is only for cervical cancer, not the other cancers caused by the HPV virus!).

    By the way, this was a great editorial: Editorial: Denying HPV vaccine is irresponsible.

    It ends with: “Blodgett should lose his job for denying them a way to prevent these awful diseases.”

  175. Osmond
    December 16, 2013 at 2:48 pm | #175

    I do believe the vaccine causes harm and I am happy with the decision that was made in my state. I believe it will save lives. Have a nice day.

  176. December 16, 2013 at 3:15 pm | #176

    @Osmond – and in your state, hundreds of women will die of cervical cancer that could have been prevented….have a nice day.

  177. Osmond
    December 16, 2013 at 3:41 pm | #177

    Lawrence, maybe, maybe not. I am not convinced the vaccine would save anybody.
    But I do know there won’t be any vaccine injuries from this vaccine and that is fantastic?

  178. licha hericane
    December 16, 2013 at 3:51 pm | #178

    And don’t we all know what happens after a vaccine is made popular. Hootchie mama – they’re made MANDATORY! Kudos to a state that can remove the blindfold, think for themselves, and with common sense enough to stop the madness of promoting unsafe vax. Thank you Osmond, and all others in the quest to keep our freedoms to choose what we feel is best for ourselves and our families; to vax or NOT TO VAX!

    Oh! And shot of ‘pretension’, HAVE A NICE DAY! ;)

  179. December 16, 2013 at 3:53 pm | #179

    @Osmond….hmmmm….you have a very strange way of thinking.

    A vaccine that has been shown to be incredibly safe (based on studies of hundreds of thousands of women) with very few adverse reactions (and no verified deaths) vs. the lives of tens of thousands of women who are diagnosed with Cervical Cancer every year, plus the 3000 that die, each and every year.

    Again, you are a very strange person.

  180. Chris
    December 16, 2013 at 6:36 pm | #180

    Osmond: “I do believe the vaccine causes harm”

    You are entitled to your own beliefs, but not to your own facts. The facts show the vaccine to be safe, and definitely prevent a virus that causes over ten thousand cases of cancer each year. If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide the PubMed indexed study by a reputable qualified researcher showing that the HPV vaccine causes as much harm as the virus.

  181. Osmond
    December 16, 2013 at 7:17 pm | #181

    Chris, look at these beautiful girls and then tell me how safe this vaccine is.
    http://sanevax.org/

  182. December 16, 2013 at 7:23 pm | #182

    @Osmond – please take a look at the documented cases (in the article above) of women dying (or dead) of cervical cancer….that is proof.

    What you have provided is nothing more than speculation – and has not been borne out when actually investigated.

  183. licha hericane
    December 16, 2013 at 7:48 pm | #183

    Again, in ‘Clinton’ speak, I guess it depends on what your definition of ‘SAFE’ is. Before Lawrence puts his foot in his mouth again, regarding the nirvana fallacy, remember that as you wrongfully claim, we have ‘perfect world’ fantasy/mentality; that you’ve also AGREED that no medicine, [thing, event, etc.] is completely safe. So what if YOUR child was the one who had the fatal vax reaction? Do you just *accept* their death for the greater good of the herd? The right answer would be, to make sure vax is 100% safe for ALL of the population.

    But this isn’t the ‘pretension’ mentality. They are against parents doing the research and deciding for themselves, if the conclusion is one they disagree with. Boo hoo! Jenny and Katie disagrees with pretensions.

    Lawrence, again, please provide PROOF that the women who died of the hpv related cancer would HAVE LIVED HAVING BEEN VAXED.

    Chris, please provide FACTS that show vax to be unequivocally safe and effective, by a reputable, qualified researcher. You CAN’T do so.

    ‘Pretension’ is the one deluding themselves with the nirvana fallacy. Not only are they unable to provide such proof that vax is *SAFE*, but they ADMIT in the same sentence, that vax DOES cause HARM, with statements as ‘showing that hpv vax causes as much harm as the virus’. Huh? So pick our poisons?

    I think I’ll take my chances that my healthy lifestyle will keep us *safer* than injecting numerous shots of dead disease, and other adjuncts that may cause adverse reactions or death in the immunocompromised.

    <blockquote
    showing that the HPV vaccine causes as much harm as the virus.

  184. Chris
    December 16, 2013 at 8:01 pm | #184

    Osmond, what part of “PubMed indexed study” did you not understand? Here is an idea, go into PubMed and find the case reports where the HPV vaccine caused the death.

    And another thing is to check out the US Court ruling in the vaccine cases. Here is one that SaneVax has pushed and what happened:

    Human papillomavirus (HPV); autoimmune/inflammatory disorder; seizures; cerebral vasculitis; dyspnea; depression; paresthesia; petitioner’s motion for a decision; dismissing the petition for insufficient proof of causation; denial without hearing.

    And this one discussed on the Katie Couric’s Show, and note these two very important paragraphs:

    On November 20, 2007, Christina saw a doctor for chronic sinus congestion. The doctor detected an irregular pulse rate. Exhibit 4 at 136. An EKG was abnormal, indicating premature atrial contractions and that Christina ’s heart was beating in pairs. Id. at 142.

    Approximately one month later, the EKG was repeated. It appears unchanged from the previous one. Id . at 135 and 141. In February 2008, Christina had a transthoracic echocardiogram. It produced normal results. Exhibit 4 at 139.

    Ms. Couric should have checked these publicly available documents and asked the mother about what kind of care her daughter was getting from the cardiologist. Here is the PubMed Identification Number of a relevant review, which is free to read online: PMID: 22451713

  185. Chris
    December 16, 2013 at 8:25 pm | #185

    Ms. Hericane: “Chris, please provide FACTS that show vax to be unequivocally safe and effective, by a reputable, qualified researcher. You CAN’T do so. ”

    Actually I have posted one up thread, and so did Gray Falcon (#101 and #119). I suggest you go up there and click on those links. Also, until you make some kind of sense in your rantings, this will be the last reply to you from me.

    Also, here are some relevant PubMed Identification Numbers (just go to http://www.pubmed.gov and put the number in the search box). You may need to go the a medical school library to read some of them:

    23331518
    23314717
    22492244
    22155768
    22018560
    21942919
    21443282
    21266842
    21198715
    20647284
    20574412
    19684444

  186. licha hericane
    December 16, 2013 at 8:43 pm | #186

    Chris :
    Osmond, what part of “PubMed indexed study” did you not understand?

    Good evening Chris. And what part of pubmed indexed S T U D Y do YOU NOT UNDERSTAND, and why do you consistently purport ‘study’ to be FACT? You *do* realize that pubmed STUDIES are just that; ‘studies’, don’t you? They should certainly not be mistaken for unequivocal proof, or even fact. I asked you for unequivocal proof and as yet, you’ve been UNABLE to provide such PROOF.

    I don’t expect you to get this Chris, since it entails ‘thinking outside the PUB’, so thank you, and good night.

  187. novalox
    December 16, 2013 at 9:45 pm | #187

    @licha

    Again, thank you for admitting that you haven’t looked at the studies provided to you by Chris and GF, and admit that you still persist in lying.

  188. Chris
    December 16, 2013 at 10:05 pm | #188

    Perhaps, novalox, Ms. Hericane would prefer to fly on aircraft that have not been studied for structural or aerodynamic integrity, but done with alternative engineering.

    She has no clue that PubMed is an index of medical research, and at least it is a way to see what data has been evaluated. Just like there are engineering journals that publish the research in structures (like carbon fiber wings), flight systems and methods to optimize performance.

    So, she if wants to live in a fantasy world where the only information allowed are unverifiable stories, and ignore actual evidence, we can just ignore her. All she is doing is incoherent typing.

  189. licha hericane
    December 16, 2013 at 10:17 pm | #189

    Novalax, you epitome of repetitive, redundant rhetoric. Please do ask for a new script. Your lack of creativity is becoming boring; although par for the ‘pretentious’ course, being from a site full of sheep.

    I come across pubmed STUDIES often in my research. However I have the intellect to decide if I should dismiss or follow up on STUDIES which are unfounded, [unproved]. I usually dismiss data that’s not based on proven fact, and move on in my research. For those like Chris, who believe pubmed to be the quintessential site for scientific FACT, one can’t possibly insist that *unequivocal* proof can come from unfounded or unfinished studies.

    I only ask pretentions to supply what you harass all your dissenting posters for; PROOF that vax has never harmed anyone. Why shouldn’t YOU be held to the same standards, which you so arrogantly demand from your readers.

    For the tenth time, do your own research boys and girls. Decide carefully and wisely.

    And remember that anyone who calls someone who isn’t a liar, a liar, is a LIAR! ;)

    ps. Chris, of course I have a CLUE regarding pubmed .. been there-done that… You, on the other hand, keep passing pubmed ‘studies’ off as fact. Didn’t anyone ever tell ‘ya, there’s a WHOLE world of science out there? And I reiterate, you DO know the difference between ‘studies’, FACT and UNEQUIVOCAL PROOF, don’t you?

  190. novalox
    December 16, 2013 at 10:40 pm | #190

    @licha

    Again, thank you for admitting that all you have done here is harass others and use ad hominems instead of actually posting evidence. Also, thank you for admitting that you have nothing instead.

    I do admit, thank you for honoring me with your continued attempts at insults, as you admit that you cannot provide any evidence and instead must resort to base lies. I await your continued admissions of defeat with every puerile insults and pathetic excuse you attempt to post here. Why should anyone bother with you and your continuing lies?

    Also, thank you for admitting that I have always told the truth and that all you have ever done here is lie and will always continue to lie, which will undoubtedly continue with your next attempt at libel.

    At least I can show your posts to rational people like the people I volunteer and work with and show you as an example of the typical anti-vax mindset, and all have said that they were turned off by your behavior.

    So you do serve a purpose here, dearie, just not the one you intended.

    Please, keep posting. I do like a fool, and you seem the perfect one to entertain all of us.

  191. Chris
    December 16, 2013 at 10:46 pm | #191

    I recognize the words as being written in English, but the way they are ordered makes no sense. Ms. Hericane seems to specialize in incoherence.

  192. novalox
    December 16, 2013 at 11:12 pm | #192

    @Chris

    Well, you know the old saying, “If you can’t impress people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bull”

    licha, from her postings, as well as her consistent refusal to post actual evidence as well as look at the evidence provided by you, Lawrence, and GF, certainly shows little to no intelligence here. Guess he/she/it is resorting to the bull part by her inane and incoherent writing style.

    At least it provides some cheap laughs, as well as showing the intelligence of the typical anti-vax liar.

  193. licha hericane
    December 17, 2013 at 12:10 am | #193

    Aw! You cut me pretensions. Is that the best ‘ya can do? Fake badges again Lax? At least I know the difference between ‘studies’ and proven fact. Oh! And how about bringing up ‘airplane science’ when you’ve been busted. Talk about INCOHERENT! I thought you were ‘ignoring’ me Chris. Sheesh!

    Novalax would say you’ve just ADMITTED TO LYING. And thanks for the anti-vax compliment Lax. Keep *fooling* yourself. You’re FAILING!

    My writing style has been applauded and commended, except by those who lack the comprehension skills to ‘get it’. I’m tickled and proud, that I’ve been compared to Hunter & his gonzo journalism. If you [collective you] don’t get THIS, [or you confuse mere unfounded studies as fact or proof], why should readers TRUST YOU WITH THEIR LIVES?

    Chris :

    So, she if wants to live in a fantasy world where the only information allowed are unverifiable stories, and ignore actual evidence, we can just ignore her. All she is doing is incoherent typing.

    I say we replace ‘she’ with Chris, and ‘stories’ with STUDIES. And of course pay special attention to the word ‘unverifiable’. Since when should unverifiable, UNPROVEN studies be accepted as fact?

    So please explain why readers should waste their time linking data to you, when you condone the use of unfounded studies as being factual.

    And maybe boys and girls, pretensions will be able to understand THIS. Anyone calling someone who isn’t a liar, a liar, is a LIAR! ;)

    Mwah!!! Good night pretentious babies.

  194. novalox
    December 17, 2013 at 12:19 am | #194

    @licha

    Yawn, thanks for your admission again that you still cannot tell the truth and that you failed again and again to convince rational people that your opinion has any merit at all.

    Again, you are a perfect example of D-K in action and a perfect example of your lies in action. At least you show your lies to the world and provide laughs to rational people here.

    Also, don’t assign your mental issues to others and don’t denigrate those who are mentally ill.

    So, go to sleep, little child. I’ll be waiting again for another pathetic insult thrown by you, just proving again and again that you cannot even hold a rational conversation to others.

    But please keep posting, I need my laughs at your continuing delusions and false pretensions.

  195. licha hericane
    December 17, 2013 at 12:43 am | #195

    Oh sweet Lax. You don’t need my comments for laughs. You have your site, shot of pretensions. Thank you for honoring me with your admission that your site is nothing but ‘pretentious’ babies.

    Thank you also for admitting Chris is a liar, and that you lie about posters being liars, since we all know that anyone calling someone who isn’t a liar, a liar, is a LIAR! ;)

    You too Lax! Sheep …er… a ..sleep well sweet child. and you can even count your pretentious cohorts to help you fall asleep…. one sheepie…two sheepies…three sheepies

  196. Chris
    December 17, 2013 at 12:52 am | #196

    “Chris is a liar,”

    Evidence of that, please. So those were not PMIDs that I posted? I thought you guys would love the last one on the list.

  197. novalox
    December 17, 2013 at 2:16 am | #197

    @licha

    Ah, thanks for admitting that all you can do is post insults, therefore admitting that you have nothing and admitting that I am right and you are wrong. Also, thanks for admitting that you can only posts lies and ad hominems instead of actual science.

    Please, keep posting. Your inane and childish insults reveal who you truly are, and just shows how irrational you truly are. i do enjoy reducing you to such base insults, as it shows that you cannot bring any evidence to the table and how easy it is to reduce you to a babbling and irrational poster.

    @Chris

    Of course licha cannot post any proof of it, for it would require her to look at actual science and reason, something that through her posts he/she/it shows that he/she/it truly lacks. But of course, I want to see what mental and verbal gymnastics he/she/it will write to show it. Should make for good entertainment, just to see what more idiocy she can post.

  198. Osmond
    December 17, 2013 at 12:48 pm | #198

    Since nobody cared the last time I posted this, I would like a real answer this time.
    Please tell me why you think this vaccine is safe.
    http://sanevax.org/

  199. licha hericane
    December 17, 2013 at 1:08 pm | #199

    Mmmmm! I LOVE the smell of fresh deterred, defeated and debunked vaxers in the morning.

    I’m here for YOU Lax, since I consistently enjoy unnerving and outwitting an egomaniac like you. Good to know that you concede and admit that your aberrant and narcissistic verbiage is no match for my creative and intellectual ‘gymnastics’. Thank you for yet another ‘badge’ of triumph for me, as you admit that you’re unable to deviate from your obnoxious broken record of a script, showing that you don’t have the adequate intelligence to spar with the likes of my above average iq.

    Thank you for also admitting that you remain disillusioned and extremely prejudiced about vax facts, and that pretensions wouldn’t understand scientific PROOF if it bit them in the a$$. This is in concurrence with members who’ve been erroneously demanding that readers accept INCLUSIVE STUDIES as fact. Readers appreciate that you finally admit that I’m right, you’re wrong, and that you’ve been lying about vaccines, since you remain UNABLE to provide unequivocal PROOF that the hpv deaths would NOT have occurred had the victims been vaxed and that vax has NEVER caused *any* long term injury or death.

    I’ll be awaiting your PROOF Lax, and good luck with that.

    Lastly, since I was accused of lying when I mused that ‘licha has left the building’, only to post later, I was stating that since Chris said she was going to ignore me, but kept responding anyway, that Lax and other members would call *her* a liar as well. I was NOT inferring that she was lying, but that the irrational ‘pretensions’ mentality would assume her to be, based on my own lovely experience here.

    Sorry babies! I have to run out for the day, but Novalax, I’ll try to be back by midnight to tuck you in again. ;)

    love, licha

  200. Gray Falcon
    December 17, 2013 at 1:35 pm | #200

    @Osmond: Read the articles linked to in this post. They contain why we think the vaccine is safe. We’ve told you that repeatedly. Do you feel that it is honest to disregard our words like that?

    @licha: Learn to write.

  201. December 17, 2013 at 1:35 pm | #201

    @Osmond – because studies based on hundreds of thousands of women (and millions of doses of vaccine given) show that the vaccine is safe and effective…..

  202. Osmond
    December 17, 2013 at 1:47 pm | #202

    Gray Falcon, and these http://sanevax.org/ ? You have a funny idea of what you consider safe. If one of those girls were related to you, you would feel much differently about it.

    Lawrence, you just continue to ignore the evidence. I can’t help you there.

  203. December 17, 2013 at 1:50 pm | #203

    @Osmond – evidence? What evidence? Quack websites aren’t evidence.

  204. licha hericane
    December 17, 2013 at 1:55 pm | #204

    Gray Falcon :
    They contain why we think the vaccine is safe.

    T H I N K???

  205. Gray Falcon
    December 17, 2013 at 1:58 pm | #205

    Sorry, licha, I forgot the word “think” isn’t in your vocabulary.

  206. Gray Falcon
    December 17, 2013 at 2:00 pm | #206

    Osmond :
    Gray Falcon, and these http://sanevax.org/ ? You have a funny idea of what you consider safe. If one of those girls were related to you, you would feel much differently about it.
    Lawrence, you just continue to ignore the evidence. I can’t help you there.

    Osmond, do you understand what we mean by evidence? You’ve provided the same level of evidence as was provided in the Salem witch trials!

  207. licha hericane
    December 17, 2013 at 2:03 pm | #207

    Someone please remind Falcon that ‘thinking’ something is NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING!

  208. Chris
    December 17, 2013 at 2:27 pm | #208

    Osmond, the plural of anecdote is not data. I have shown you why in comment #184. I’ll post it again, but will remember to fix the blockquote:

    Osmond, what part of “PubMed indexed study” did you not understand? Here is an idea, go into PubMed and find the case reports where the HPV vaccine caused the death.

    And another thing is to check out the US Court ruling in the vaccine cases. Here is one that SaneVax has pushed and what happened (bolding added):

    Human papillomavirus (HPV); autoimmune/inflammatory disorder; seizures; cerebral vasculitis; dyspnea; depression; paresthesia; petitioner’s motion for a decision; dismissing the petition for insufficient proof of causation; denial without hearing.

    And this one discussed on the Katie Couric’s Show, and note these two very important paragraphs:

    On November 20, 2007, Christina saw a doctor for chronic sinus congestion. The doctor detected an irregular pulse rate. Exhibit 4 at 136. An EKG was abnormal, indicating premature atrial contractions and that Christina ’s heart was beating in pairs. Id. at 142

    Approximately one month later, the EKG was repeated. It appears unchanged from the previous one. Id . at 135 and 141. In February 2008, Christina had a transthoracic echocardiogram. It produced normal results. Exhibit 4 at 139.

    Ms. Couric should have checked these publicly available documents and asked the mother about what kind of care her daughter was getting from the cardiologist. Here is the PubMed Identification Number of a relevant review, which is free to read online: PMID: 22451713

  209. Chris
    December 17, 2013 at 2:33 pm | #209

    I believe, Osmond, if you really cared about the health of young people you would be willing to learn the relative risks of the vaccine, versus the harm from the cancers caused by the virus.

    Also, you would be campaigning for better attention to sudden cardiac death in the young. This means campaigning for EKG screenings of student athletes, and having defibrillators at every high school campus, and college building. Plus making sure that those who have heart murmurs and abnormal heart rhythms have access to a qualified cardiologist.

    The more relevant links to one young lady’s death are:

    Pediatric sudden cardiac arrest.

    and: http://www.sca-aware.org/

  210. Osmond
    December 17, 2013 at 3:18 pm | #210

    It’s obvious that nobody here cares about these vaccine injured girls. It really is a sad state of affairs when you can’t see what is right in front of you and continue to deny and make excuses, and for what? It really blows my mind. No compassion what so ever. At first I thought you really believed this vaccine was safe, but now I understand, you just don’t give a damn. Not sure what is motivating you to ignore these injured girls, but I can only hope you will see things differently in the future.

  211. December 17, 2013 at 4:25 pm | #211

    @Osmond – we have plenty of actual proof and evidence that HPV-derived Cervical Cancers kill thousands of women every year.

    What you keep showing us is a bunch of accusations without evidence……

  212. Chris
    December 17, 2013 at 5:47 pm | #212

    Osmond: “It’s obvious that nobody here cares about these vaccine injured girls.”

    It is obvious that you don’t care about those who get cancers nor those with abnormal heart rhythms.

    Now look again at this Finding of Fact very carefully. There is a saying that if you hear clop-clop-clop behind you would you think the hoofbeats are from a horse or a zebra behind you?

    Now read that legal document very carefully, look up what an EKG measures.

    Now tell us which is the horse and which is the zebra:

    sudden cardiac arrest… horse or zebra? especially after reading that the EKGs were abnormal, indicating premature atrial contractions with the heart beating in pairs

    or Gardasil, is it the horse or the zebra?

  213. Gray Falcon
    December 17, 2013 at 6:01 pm | #213

    licha hericane :
    Someone please remind Falcon that ‘thinking’ something is NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING!

    Note that the statement I made was:

    Gray Falcon :
    @Osmond: Read the articles linked to in this post. They contain why we think the vaccine is safe. We’ve told you that repeatedly. Do you feel that it is honest to disregard our words like that?

    licha, do you consider it honest to misquote people like that? I didn’t say my “thinking” anything was proof of anything. Why do you feel the need to lie about what us?

  214. Osmond
    December 17, 2013 at 8:11 pm | #214

    You are both still ignoring it. All you do is change the subject. Thank you for admitting you have no response to those young girls, If you did you would say something.

    Gray Falcon, I don’t think Licha misquoted you. She is right, your “thinking” doesn’t make it so, it doesn’t make it a fact and it isn’t proof.

  215. December 17, 2013 at 8:46 pm | #215

    Okay, Osmond, show us the definitive evidence the health issues were caused by the vaccine and not something else, like a congenital heart condition.

    Post the medical reports by the physicians that were treating them, and determined it was a vaccine injury. Prove to us that the one young lady’s abnormal EKGs had nothing to do with her death.

  216. Gray Falcon
    December 17, 2013 at 10:31 pm | #216

    Osmond :
    Gray Falcon, I don’t think Licha misquoted you. She is right, your “thinking” doesn’t make it so, it doesn’t make it a fact and it isn’t proof.

    Did I ever say it was my “thinking” that made it so? Didn’t you bother to read the post you just responded to? Why did you trust her over your own eyes?

  217. novalox
    December 17, 2013 at 11:14 pm | #217

    @licha

    Yawn. licha, thanks for admitting that you still lie and that you keep admitting that vaccines are safer than the diseases that they protect against. Your projections, as seen by your childish insults and ad homienms, of your mental and intellectual inferiority is also amusing, if just to see how much you despise the intelligence the regulars here have compared to you.

    Also, with every insult, you admit that you cannot win against me. So please, keep on attempting your juvenile insults, as it is admission that you are still wrong and that I am right.

    @osmond

    [citation needed] within 3 posts, or we can all assume that you cannot provide actual proof for your assertions and admit that you have no logical basis for your argument.

  218. licha hericane
    December 18, 2013 at 1:12 am | #218

    Novalax! Please keep talking. I close my eyes and SNORE when I’m interested. Unfortunately for you, I’ll NEVER have the need to admit to lying or that vax is totally safe, since those assertions are your own fabrications. Regardless of your persistent, public prevarications I’m kinda’ busy right now so can I ignore ‘ya later?

  219. licha hericane
    December 18, 2013 at 1:18 am | #219

    Chris :
    <p There is a saying that if you hear clop-clop-clop behind you would you think the hoofbeats are from a horse or a zebra behind you?

    Now tell us which is the horse and which is the zebra:
    horse or zebra?
    or Gardasil, is it the horse or the zebra?

    Here’s another saying. ‘If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.

  220. Gray Falcon
    December 18, 2013 at 1:21 am | #220

    licha, what you’ve done is glue a beak on it and make quacking noises, and expect us to believe it’s a duck.

  221. licha hericane
    December 18, 2013 at 1:23 am | #221

    licha hericane :

    Gray Falcon :
    They contain why we think the vaccine is safe.

    T H I N K???

    Osmond, thank you for taking a mediator role and sparing me from further communication with Falcon. I refuse to associate with neuro diverse anti-cures. For a month now, all I’ve heard from pretensions is, ‘vax are safe, vax are safe’. Perhaps Falcon had a momentary lapse as he writes, ‘why we THINK vax are safe’.

    Hmmmm!. Not exactly what inquiring parents want to hear.

    Good night Osmond and pretentious babies. Sheep well. ;)

  222. Gray Falcon
    December 18, 2013 at 1:35 am | #222

    licha, absolute certainty is not the goal of science, understanding is. My using the word “think” is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength. Learn the basics of science before you comment again.

  223. novalox
    December 18, 2013 at 1:53 am | #223

    @licha

    Again, thanks for admitting that I bother you since you have no evidence for your assertions and that you are nothing but a “pretentious baby”

    In addition, thank you for admitting that the regulars here have actual scientific evidence to support their views while you do not.

    Also, your continuing lies and libel are an admission that you admit continual defeat again and again. Please continue to post, as I like laughing at you and your idiocy so much.

  224. Chris
    December 18, 2013 at 3:09 am | #224

    The real problem with the stories at SaneVax is that they are just stories. The real victims are the young women whose parents are exploiting them on the site, and not pursuing real medical answers to the issues.

    Here are some questions that need to be made to those parents. Things like questions about cardiology, and about bacterial infections (Pyomyositis), and the many other things that happen to teenage girls. Like depression.

    I just learned that a childhood friend of my daughter who died three years ago committed suicide. We had only been informed of her death, but not the reason. This is something that needs to be taken seriously since suicide is the third most common death for young adults. Unintentional injury is first, followed by homicide. Heart disease is a distant fifth. How is hat for your fun fact for the day?

    Osmond, we know you don’t care about young people dying from virus caused cancers or genetic forms of heart disease, but how do you feel about youth suicide and the mental issues leading to that final solution?

  225. Chris
    December 18, 2013 at 3:14 am | #225

    Typo correction: “How is that for your fun fact for the day?”

    Notice how “vaccine injuries” on not on that chart? And that “Malignant Neoplasm” (also known as “cancer”) is just before “heart disease”?

    Did you know that human papillomavirus causes cancer? And that there is a vaccine to prevent it! Woo hoo!

  226. December 18, 2013 at 7:00 am | #226

    @Chris – and I also believe it has been pointed out that the HepB vaccine also helps prevent certain kinds of Liver Cancer as well…..

  227. Chris
    December 18, 2013 at 6:33 pm | #227

    I just read this interesting article: Growing Up Unvaccinated. This is one of its paragraphs:

    As healthy as my lifestyle seemed, I contracted measles, mumps, rubella, a type of viral meningitis, scarlatina, whooping cough, yearly tonsillitis, and chickenpox, some of which are vaccine preventable. In my twenties I got precancerous HPV and spent 6 months of my life wondering how I was going to tell my two children under the age of 7 that mummy might have cancer before it was safely removed.

    Now where is the verifiable scientific evidence that the HPV vaccine is more dangerous than the cancers caused by the virus?

  228. February 19, 2014 at 5:09 am | #228

    Greetings! Quick question that’s totally off topic.
    Do you know how to make your site mobile friendly?
    My blog looks weird when viewing from my iphone. I’m trying
    to find a theme or plugin that might be able to fix this problem.
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  229. March 30, 2014 at 4:02 am | #229

    This website definitely has all the info I needed about this subject and didn’t
    know who to ask.

  1. December 6, 2013 at 11:49 am | #1
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  3. January 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm | #3

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