Home > Get Involved, Parent Perspective, Preventable Diseases, Testimonials > Have Vaccine Critics Made You More of an Immunization Advocate?

Have Vaccine Critics Made You More of an Immunization Advocate?

You know all the crazy stuff you read about vaccines….the myths your friends remain fearful of…the articles that people send you that claim vaccines are toxic and dangerous? Well, I’m beginning to hear from people who claim that all this anti-vaccine sentiment has actually helped to encourage them to be more active in advocating for vaccines. This seems especially true among a select group of people who may have otherwise not been inclined to become vocal on this issue.

Take Kristen for example. She admits that the anti-vaccine dialogue actually made her more committed to vaccinating her child.

“It dawned on me last night that I actually have an anti-vaxer to thank for how pro-vaccine I am now. I reached out to her when I was questioning having my little man vaccinated. All of the absolutely stupid brain-dead articles that she would send to me – with their fear mongering that I’m sure she was hoping would make me join the dark side – did the exact opposite and had me running like hell to the nearest vaccination clinic instead. I should probably send her an organic fruit basket & a recycled thank you card.”

Amanda adds,

It’s similar for me. A friend told me she wasn’t vaccinating because the “risks outweighed the benefits” and I looked into for myself and now I’m way more pro-vaccine than I would have been otherwise.”

And these are just a few examples of what I’ve been hearing from parents online.

Perhaps, by suggesting crazy conspiracy theories, twisting data and neglecting to back up vaccine criticism with scientific evidence, anti-vaccine rhetoric is actually helping to ensure that parents continue to vaccinate.

History shows that suggestions of vaccine safety concerns have the power to create fear and hesitancy among parents. Andrew Wakefield’s unproven claims that vaccines were linked to autism are a perfect example. Years after his reckless statements, public health advocates are still struggling to combat this misinformation, despite the fact that there are plenty of scientific studies that have failed to provide any evidence that links vaccines and autism. But if people were smart about pushing their anti-vaccine agenda, they may consider leaving well enough alone. Just the suggestion of autism, coupled with discussion of adverse effects from random people on the internet may be enough to create a lingering doubt about immunizations among concerned parents.

But no. They can’t just leave it at that. They have to take it to an extreme.

They need to blame vaccines for everything – from autism, to asthma, to allergies, to SIDS, to cancer, to infertility and everything in between. While they may be able to document that the rates of these “ailments” is rising, they fail to acknowledge that the actual amount of antigens in the recommended schedule of vaccines has actually been reduced over the years. They also fail to acknowledge the ongoing research that demonstrates the many benefits of vaccines and the fact that not all research is conducted by pharmaceutical companies.

Of course, vaccine haters also like to cling to elaborate conspiracies that suggest that our government, our doctors, the CDC and the pharmaceutical companies are intentionally trying to harm us. Personally, I struggle to understand why people would continue to live in a country where they are convinced the government is purposely trying to kill them off. And while it’s important to question the intent and integrity of each and every organization that manufactures and regulates vaccines, conspiracy theorists fail to see how repeated hospitalizations and permanent ailments that would result from widespread disease could actually be more profitable to pharmaceutical companies and doctors than the immunization schedule that is now recommended.

And then, as if the elaborate government conspiracies weren’t enough, vaccine critics prefer to put their faith and trust in questionable people – like Andrew Wakefield, whose medical license has been revoked, and Dr. Bob Sears whose alternative vaccination schedule has no scientific basis and has never been tested. They even find it acceptable to reference ridiculous sources like Natural News when eliciting their version of “proof”. (Yes, that would be the same source that recently claimed that vaccines were causing a zombie apocalypse.) While Natural News may fail to provide scientific evidence of their damaging claims about vaccines, the site can be credited with enticing millions of people to purchase expensive, unregulated homeopathic remedies for ailments they claim are caused by vaccines. But of course, Natural News is just one of many sources of anti-vaccine commentary that profits off of vaccine misinformation. There are dozens more and vaccine critics find these profits completely acceptable.

Fortunately, the extreme anti-vaccine sentiment is far from a mainstream concern. Their exaggerated claims don’t often appeal to the inquisitive parent who will eventually do enough research to discover accurate sources of reliable scientific data. Instead, their accusations of enormous government cover-ups, along with their claims of pharmaceutical company mind-control, is more like a scheme that preys on parents who wish to identify themselves, and their children, as victims. However, from what I’ve seen lately, these tactics are becoming more effective at encouraging parents to choose to immunize their children rather than refuse vaccines. As outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases continue across the country, and school exemptions are on the rise, more people are speaking out in favor of public health and the benefits of vaccines.

What has prompted you to get more involved in this conversation? Have you become more of a vaccine advocate because you simply refuse to stand by and allow the misinformation to influence others not to vaccinate? If so, share your story in the comments below.

  1. Kristine
    June 1, 2012 at 12:02 pm | #1

    I became a vaccine advocate because of the anti-vaxers I encountered in attachment parenting communities. It was so hard to see the misinformation floating around because it puts lives in jeopardy. With sources like Mercola and Natural News, I just couldn’t keep my mouth shut any longer.

  2. June 1, 2012 at 12:07 pm | #2

    I think I was really motivated to get more involved when I read a newspaper article that stated that so many of the people who are anti-vaccine are too young to remember the devastating effects of Polio, Influenza, Measles, Mumps. Many of these people probably have ancestors who were impacted by these devastating illnesses, but they do not remember them or they have not heard their stories. I have family members who WERE impacted by these illnesses, in the early part of the last century. Knowing my family history was very important in my decision to vaccinate.

  3. Kate
    June 1, 2012 at 1:32 pm | #3

    I started advocating for vaccines when I had the privilege of hearing Dr. Offit speak at an event about the anti-vaccine movement. Being pregnant at the time, it infuriated me that those who were choosing not to vaccinate their children were putting me and my unborn child at risk. Since then, the amount of misinformation spread in the media and on the Internet have pushed me to try to counter the crazy with facts and sound science.

  4. June 1, 2012 at 1:51 pm | #4

    I became a vaccine advocate in 1998, when somebody dear to me was undergoing chemo and we discovered that a number of folk in our social circle were vaccine refusers. I am also old enough that I had measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox. Happily I escaped pertussis and was protected against tetanus.

    As I have become more involved in autism advocacy, I have become even more of a vaccine advocate. The “treatments” that the “autism is vaccine injury” brigade subject their children to are horrific. (The “latest” is bleach enemas.)

    Contrary to the vaccine-rejectionists claims, I find them often to be ill-educated about science, the scientific method, statistics, biology, and every other field of science involved in vaccination.

  5. June 1, 2012 at 2:09 pm | #5

    Yes, the lies, distortions, and propaganda of the anti-vaccine movement have definitely made me more of an advocate for vaccines, and for accuracy in public health conversations in general.

  6. Lara Lohne
    June 1, 2012 at 2:17 pm | #6

    Having grown up in an anti-vaccine household, I suffered through vaccine preventable diseases myself, I saw a younger sister nearly die from one, she has permanent damage from it, I have permanent damage from the ones I suffered from. While neither of us suffered extreme damage, it was enough to impact our lives. When I was expecting my first child I did my own research because I had been so entrenched in the anti vaccine sentiment for so long that I was confused when I started hearing the benefits of vaccines. The research I did led me to the science behind vaccines and the data showing how many lives they have saved, how much suffering they have prevented and it changed my mind for good with regard to vaccines.

    I considered the matter closed at that point, nearly forgetting about the anti-vaccine side of the argument, until my youngest son was diagnosed with autism and then it all came back. I heard the stories about vaccines causing autism and started to get scared and confused again, until I remembered my son was not vaccinated on schedule, therefore the vaccines couldn’t have been responsible. What then caused his autism if not vaccines? I started searching for other parents who have children with autism to see if we could find a common ground. Most parents who blame anything for their child’s autism, blame vaccines for it, but by far the majority of parents of children with autism don’t blame anything, but accept the fact that their child has autism and move on to deal with it.

    I have seen many times anti-vax people stating unvaccinated children don’t have autism, yet my son does, and he isn’t the only one I know. I speak out in favor of vaccines to try and dispell the myths associated with autism. My son is proof that autism can happen even without vaccines, and basically proves that a child who is going to have autism will get it with or without vaccines because the markers for it were there in the child prior to birth. In my case, yes, the anti-vaccine movement definitely influences my speaking out in support of vaccines. I believe also that I have a unique perspective because for so long I was anti-vaccine, but when I actually learned the science behind vaccines, It convinced me that vaccines were by far more beneficial then not. I feel almost duty bound to speak out in support of vaccines also because my son has autism but didn’t get it from vaccines, therefore he disarms a very commonly used ‘weapon’ in the anti-vaccine arsenal. I speak out because I know my story is powerful. The fact that I get attacked so viciously by anti-vaccine people when I state my story proves my point; it really weakens their stand because it proves so many things wrong that they hold to religiously.

  7. Autismum
    June 1, 2012 at 2:40 pm | #7

    My son is severely autistic. I got involved mainly because I hated they language those in the anti-vaccination movement used to describe children with this condition and the imagery of the once perfect but now broken, damaged or stolen child. It breaks my heart that parents talk of their own children that way.
    The more I looked into, the more I realised they were *using* my child’s condition, which isn’t a tragedy nor was it an event, to terrify parents into making poor health choices for their families. Aside from causing the resurgence in diseases like pertussis and measles, the anti-vaccination movement has done incredible harm to autistic people. The idea of them as being somehow less than human is disgusting and has been used as an excuse to inflict degrading and horrifying “treatments” upon autistic children.

  8. Lawrence
    June 1, 2012 at 3:29 pm | #8

    I had only heard about this peripherally until my wife and I had our son. As a matter of course, we knew vaccinations were the right thing to do, since we had the benefit of receiving them growing up (though I did suffer through a very severe bout of chicken pox, before the vaccine was available).

    After being exposed to the absolute hysteria of the anti-vaccine movement online & stumbling upon RI a couple of years ago, it became very important to me, for the sake of my children & others, to do the research and understand and combat the falsehoods that the anti-vaccine movement continues to attempt to spread.

  9. Brittany Englert
    June 1, 2012 at 4:27 pm | #9

    I became pro vaccination when I had a group of anti vaccination people tell me they didn’t care what cancer patient or too young child there own child could kill by contracting diseases all they cared about was there child and everyone else’s child was not of concern to them. They were advocating chicken pox parties and all natural things when children had fevers of 105 rather than giving them tylenol or taking them to the doctor. It was heartbreaking to hear about there kids suffering while they shoved honey down there throats and some kind of “silver” product to avoid shots and antibiotics.

  10. Autismum
    June 1, 2012 at 5:06 pm | #10

    Gotta love RI

  11. June 1, 2012 at 6:53 pm | #11

    Dana got me involved. Dorey et al ensure I remain.

  12. June 1, 2012 at 6:57 pm | #12

    It were the deceitful and fraudulent medical professionals that opened my eyes to how dangerous misinformation could be and the effect these perpetuated lies had on non-medical personals and families. Occasionally I would see parents sharing misinformation on ‘Baby Boards’ and while they were wrong, it was the health professional who purposely denied the hundreds of studies and plethora of scientific data that blew my mind. My frustration mounted when I discovered that these professionals attempted to sell their ‘information’ or ‘cleansing cures’ that had no scientific support from their colleagues and the credible scientific community. These outlaws of legitimate medical associations have the potential to harm innocent lives and promote outbreaks of diseases that veracious scientists and medical workers had devoted their lives to eradicating. And to top it off they used claims of mass conspiracies to draw support.
    We as healthcare professionals have an obligation to our patients and communities to provide up-to-date health services and proper education. After I recovered from my shock, I used my repugnance to create am Internet source via Facebook for nurses that would provide medical news updates and continuing education opportunities. That is how and why Nurses Who Vaccinate originated. I had to do my piece to offset the mass ignorance that is so easily found and unfortunately shared.

  13. Tsu Dho Nimh
    June 1, 2012 at 7:14 pm | #13

    Because I’m old enough. That’s all.
    I’m old enough to remember the “good old days” before all these new-fangled vaccines.
    I’m old enough to remember my grandmothers stories about the “Spanish Flu”, the influenza epidemic of 1918, and the friends and family who died in it.
    I’m old enough to have had polio put classmates in iron lungs, and if they were lucky, leave the iron lungs for a life on crutches.
    I’m old enough to remember the deaf and blind children in the AZ State School for the Deaf and Blind … mostly there because of rubella or measles.
    I’m old enough to remember what a newborn with congenital rubella looks like, if the mother was not fortunate enough to have miscarried.
    I’m old enough to remember what a baby in ICU with disseminated HiB looks and smells like, with its fingers and toes blackening with gangrene.
    I’m old enough to remember the misery of chickenpox, and (barely) old enough to have seen a tenant’s girls in ICU because of it.

    I’m old enough to remember how a baby sounds, gasping it’s life away with whooping cough … oh, wait, that was well after the vaccine was developed!

    And that’s the real reason why: because those who do not remember do not know what preventable death and illness looks like.

  14. June 1, 2012 at 7:43 pm | #14

    I have been pro vaccination for over 20 years. I worked as a teacher’s aide in the late 1980s and one of the students was a young man who had an acquired brain injury from measles encephalitis. When I was pregnant I found out that one of my oldest friends (pregnant at the same time) came from an anti-vax (and anti-anti biotic, essentially anti medicine) family. She was not going to immunise her baby. I found this inconceivable and I have since lost contact with her.

    I found myself drawn to the pro-vax movement last year when I read about Meryl Dorey being invited to present her misinformation to a hippie festival in Queensland, Australia (search Woodford, AVN and Meryl Dorey if you’re interested in more). Luckily the Stop the AVN facebook site was all over this and I’ve found my tribe! I’m happy to promote pro-medicine wherever I can.

  15. Lara Lohne
    June 1, 2012 at 8:06 pm | #15

    Orac is boss! Heheh.

  16. June 1, 2012 at 9:20 pm | #16

    I’ve watched more than one child die from vaccine preventable disease, and others be hospitalized or disabled. It did not take more than that to make me a vaccine advocate in the offline world.

    And when I started reading more in depth about vaccines, it was the people arguing against them using blantantly twisted facts and outright lies, often things that are easily correctable with mere minutes on pubmed or even Google, that made me an online advocate. 

    Initially I thought “Well, that point there is so obviously wrong that if I show the facts to this person they will begin to understand.”  I no longer believe that, not in the least with regards to the people who make these arguments. 

    What I do believe, at least what I hope, is that when I point out the nonsense that it demonstrates for the level-headed reader the lack of threads in the Antivaccine Emporer’s clothes.

  17. CanadianNurse
    June 2, 2012 at 12:27 am | #17

    I was a nurse before I had ever heard of an anti-vaccination stance. When a friend pointed me towards an anti-vaccine Facebook group, I thought it was a joke, a hoax. How could anyone – I asked myself – deny the good that vaccines have done?

    Once I discovered the anti-vaccine movement, I knew I had to do whatever I could to undermine it. What kind of nurse would I be if I didn’t advocate for the prevention of diseases that have maimed and killed millions?

  18. June 2, 2012 at 12:56 am | #18

    I am from nigeria in the northern part of the country. some people are refused to acceptin the vaccine especial OPV. So what are the implication .

  19. anautismdad
    June 2, 2012 at 2:09 am | #19

    I became an opponent to the anti-vax brigade, because I believed that their raucous publicity was drowning out rationalism. People need to consider the science or lack of it. I want them to see the science and not buy lies and snake oil.

  20. Carolyn B
    June 2, 2012 at 5:37 am | #20

    Yes. Because I’m a paediatrician. Contrary to popular belief, I care about children (and adults) and I don’t directly or indirectly profit financially from vaccinations. I see children with preventable diseases die or become disabled. Thankfully, not as often as I would if it weren’t for immunisation.

  21. Th1Th2
    June 2, 2012 at 6:03 am | #21

    Ignorance has no age limit.

  22. June 2, 2012 at 6:20 am | #22

    Researching disease/vaccination history I came upon an anti-vax website. Up until then I didn’t know such sites existed. I was appalled at the ignorance of disease and disease history shown there: “whooping cough was considered a mild childhood ailment” etc. I remember the whoops and the vomiting and the sight of my new-born baby sister gasping for breath, her navel herniated from the strain. I remember the other childhood diseases and tuberculosis,meningitis, which saw my brother in hospital for 2 years. I knew people with shrunken limbs from polio and saw the fear caused by a smallpox outbreak. My father, as a teenager, saw his baby sister die of diphtheria. I became involved in the campaign to counter these ignoramuses.

  23. mochuck
    June 2, 2012 at 6:56 am | #23

    Same here

  24. June 2, 2012 at 7:32 am | #24

    Yes, definitely led to advocacy, getting boosters and more flu shots than I’d have considered. Always interested in why people gravitate to fallacies. Lately, very keen on sifting out the lucrative “antivax industry” from the maintained front. New parents are a never ending source of profit. In Australia we have a woman who makes obscene amounts from scams, promised projects, urgent fund drives to defend civil rights and magazine subscriptions for never sent mags. Kids grow, parents move on to new challenges and those who do seek answers never get replies or returned calls.
    They sell fear and dependence on “maintenance” lest this secretive toxic world force robust health upon you. That they are still copy and pasting the recycled nonsense of 15 years ago, surely prods many “believers” toward the facts.
    It’s a scam. The actual antivax obsession is as much using kids as proxies instead of managing complex psychological issues.

  25. June 2, 2012 at 11:00 am | #25

    The trigger for my creation of The Millenium Project in 1999 was the discovery that the Vaccination Awareness Network had changed its name to the deceptive Australian Vaccination Network. Every utterance I hear from this vile outfit makes me more determined to fight vaccine deniers.

    I have often mentioned that when I wrote a book about the Internet in 1996 I had to research pornography so that I could answer questions about how prevalent and accessible it was. Nothing I saw in that research project was as disgusting as the first anti-vaccination web site I encountered.

    Occasionally I get asked by vaccine deniers why I call them “anti-vaccinations liars”. The answer is simple – they oppose vaccines and they tell lies.

  26. liz allen
    June 2, 2012 at 1:33 pm | #26

    Lara,
    Why do you say your son was not vaccinated on schedule, therefore the vaccines couldn’t have caused his autism? Any vaccine given at any time can cause autism. What difference do you think it might have made that they weren’t given on schedule?

  27. liz allen
    June 2, 2012 at 1:39 pm | #27

    Mr. Yusuf,
    The OPV is no longer given in First World countries because it sometimes causes the polio it’s supposed to prevent. I don’t know why it’s still given in Third World countries. it caused 36,000 cases of paralysis in children to whom it was given in India last year. I’m afraid the implications are obvious. I’ve read that many parents in African countries are hiding their children to prevent their being vaccinated against their will. It is shameful that their right to choose or refuse vaccines is in many instances being denied.

  28. Chris
  29. Autismum
    June 2, 2012 at 3:01 pm | #29

    liz allen :
    Lara,
    Any vaccine given at any time can cause autism.

    Can you back that up? The answer is no.

  30. Autismum
    June 2, 2012 at 3:04 pm | #30

    OPV is given in developing countries because it is, actually, more effective than the injected polio vaccine and because it is easier to administer. You may not realise this, but developing nations don’t have quite as many medical professionals as the USA for example.

  31. Nathan
    June 2, 2012 at 3:28 pm | #31

    it caused 36,000 cases of paralysis in children to whom it was given in India last year. I’m afraid the implications are obvious.

    The obvious implication in this case is that you are making things up.

  32. Th1Th2
    June 2, 2012 at 3:49 pm | #32

    You mean the OPV vaccine is more effective than the IPV because the excreted infectious poliovirus from OPV recipient is easier to spread to anyone in close contact including naive children? Now you know why the OPV managed to be the leading cause of paralytic poliomyelitis which is further enhanced by 1. Being in the Third world country 2. Overcrowding 3. Malnutrition 4. Poor basic hygiene and sanitation 5. Lack of clean water supply 6. Lack of education and lastly ….7. Abundant supply of infectious OPV.

    The USG knew exactly when to stop that hideous OPV. But I’m glad they did it.

  33. Chris
    June 2, 2012 at 3:52 pm | #33

    You may thank John Salamone for the USA switching from OPV to IPV. He is a true vaccine safety activist.

  34. Th1Th2
    June 2, 2012 at 4:26 pm | #34

    I suggest you augment your study on the history of the polio vaccine Chris and how the USG never learned its lessons from the past. Let’s begin 20 years before the advent of the Salk vaccine, shall we?

  35. June 2, 2012 at 5:42 pm | #35

    I too am old enough. I had classmates in leg braces and crutches. I knew children who had hearing loss or cognitive disabilities from vaccine-preventable diseases.

  36. June 2, 2012 at 5:43 pm | #36

    And my considered advice is to ignore Th1Th2. No amount of facts can inter its brainspace.

  37. June 2, 2012 at 6:59 pm | #37

    Great post!

    A few years ago a couple of anti-vaxers started posting a bunch of crap on my forum at thinkhumanism.com. My fully-vaccinated kids were grown up and I wasn’t all that interested in the subject and hadn’t read up on it for years. But I could see these people and the ideas they were spreading were dangerous so I ended up reading several books as well as all about the Wakefield/MMR story. Wanting to nail my colours to the mast on the issue was one of the reasons I started my blog. I’ve had an anti-vaxer try post over a hundred stupid anti-vax comments on there – they go straight into my spam bin these days but whenever I saw them they were a little reminder of how bad the anti-vax stupidity burns. There’s another reminder here and it’s horrific: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1354314/my-kids-are-not-vaccinated-but-how-do-i-stop-worrying/20

  38. June 2, 2012 at 7:25 pm | #38

    Liz Allen claimed:

    The OPV is no longer given in First World countries because it sometimes causes the polio it’s supposed to prevent. I don’t know why it’s still given in Third World countries. it caused 36,000 cases of paralysis in children to whom it was given in India last year.

    A study in India found that vaccine associated paralytic polio occurs at a rate of 1 case per 4.1 to 4.6 million OPV doses administered. http://www.who.int/bulletin/archives/80(3)210.pdf According to the WHO there was only one case of confirmed polio in India last year, which was wild-type virus. Why would you spread this misinformation when the facts are so easily found? I hope Mr Yusuf Gurkumo understands that it is lowered uptake of OPV that leaves people vulnerable to polio, whether wild or vaccine derived.

    More to the point, coming across anti-vaccine claims has certainly made me more pro-vaccine. So many of them are easily refuted yet people continue to spread misinformation that can easily lead to death or permanent disability if people believe it.

  39. June 2, 2012 at 8:58 pm | #39

    I write stuff and as many writers will recognise the hard part is often just finding the topic. Put another way, the hard part is the thinking of it not the writing about it.

    The idea just crystallised in my mind that many, if not most, of the professional anti-vaccination liars, the ones who lie for a living, are fully aware that there is no connection between vaccines and autism. It suits their agenda (and business plans), however, to continue to peddle the lie. Bearing in mind that they don’t give a damn about children, the autism ploy is a way to threaten parents with a vicarious disability: “Vaccinate your kids and YOUR life will be ruined”. The same thinking is behind the spurious relationships between SIDS and Shaken Baby Syndrome: “Vaccinate your kids and YOU might be prosecuted for something”.

    I feel my unpopularity with anti-vaccination liars increasing even as we speak. Now, I’ve got some magazine and web articles to write.

  40. June 3, 2012 at 4:09 am | #40

    I can describe a little about what pharmacy students learn about vaccines at a university where I worked until recently.

    They study specific ingredients regarding toxicity. In addition they do what few medical faculties seem to be concerned about – study interactions between ingredients, because they can and do occur. Interactions may enhance toxicity several hundredfold.

    Students are given projects to work with involving investigation of specific vaccines. Package insert information which can be found in internett is used as a source of officially approved information.

    Every year each class is challenged to find serious and unbiased studies concerning co-administration of vaccines (several given at the same time). As far as I know, none have been presented so far.

    It is the students’ choice whether to support or be critical regarding vaccines. They are advised to: “Investigate before you Vaccinate”.

  41. June 3, 2012 at 7:56 am | #41

    Vaccine Risks,

    They study specific ingredients regarding toxicity. In addition they do what few medical faculties seem to be concerned about – study interactions between ingredients, because they can and do occur. Interactions may enhance toxicity several hundredfold.

    Forgive my skepticism, but this doesn’t sound very plausible. Could you give an example of an interaction between vaccine ingredients that could “enhance toxicity several hundredfold”? Is this a reputable university? This looks to me like the sort of thing Bastyr University or a similar institution might come up with.

  42. Kelly
    June 3, 2012 at 8:45 am | #42

    Vaccine Risks

    Every year each class is challenged to find serious and unbiased studies concerning co-administration of vaccines (several given at the same time). As far as I know, none have been presented so far.

    Yes, I agree with Krebiozen. Please forgive my skepticism, but this doesn’t sound very plausible.

    These studies are found in the package inserts which Vaccine Risks claims the students study as “a source of officially approved information”, yet the students can’t find them?

    For instance, this is from the package insert for Pediarix (http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM241874.pdf)

    In a US multicenter study, infants were randomized to 1 of 3 groups: (1) a combination vaccine group that received PEDIARIX concomitantly with Hib conjugate vaccine (Wyeth Pharmaceuticals Inc.; no longer licensed in the US) and US-licensed 7-valent pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (Wyeth Pharmaceuticals Inc.); (2) a separate vaccine group that received US-licensed INFANRIX, ENGERIX-B, and IPV (Sanofi Pasteur SA) concomitantly with the same Hib and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines; and (3) a staggered vaccine group that received PEDIARIX concomitantly with the same Hib conjugate vaccine but with the same pneumococcal conjugate vaccine administered 2 weeks later. The schedule of administration was 2, 4, and 6 months of age. Infants either did not receive a dose of hepatitis B vaccine prior to enrollment or were permitted to receive one dose of hepatitis B vaccine administered at least 30 days prior to enrollment. For the separate vaccine group, ENGERIX-B was not administered at 4 months of age to subjects who received a dose of hepatitis B vaccine prior to enrollment. Among subjects in all 3 vaccine groups combined, 84% were white, 7% were Hispanic, 6% were black, 0.7% were Oriental, and 2.4% were of other racial/ethnic groups.

    Furthermore, I quickly did a PubMed search using the search words, “vaccine”, “safety”, and “co-administration” and got 46 hits. I did not read them all, but I found one study without too much trouble at all. I wonder why the students at your school have so much trouble, Vaccine Risks.

    Back to the topic at hand. Like many others, I became a vaccine advocate due to the appalling misinformation anti-vaxers like to trot out as fact. I feel that parents deserve to make an informed choice and should have accurate information to make that choice.

  43. Gaye
    June 3, 2012 at 9:26 am | #43

    Maggie, I am 67 and very anti vaccines. I am old enough to remember the Dr’s calling measles, mumps and chicken pox just mild child hood diseases and to not worry about them.. I am also old enough to remember the odd ones with Polio, and some of my family had croup and all recovered, and I am also old enough to remember that we did not have thousands of children dying from leukaemia and other sort of new diseases.
    I do not blame immunisation on its own as the proliferation of chemicals in water, foods, air and household products is also widely suspected as a key factor, so adding anti-freeze (phenoxyethanol), formaldehyde and a variety of stabilisers, plus many other dangerous chemicals into immunisations sure does not go down with a developing baby/child.. I remember dissecting rats in Biology class that had been preserved with formaldehyde.
    Have we exchanged the mild child hood diseases with other killers, eg The incidence of lymphomas has more than doubled over the past 20 years for no known reason and continues to rapidly increase in Australia.
     In developed countries, over the 50 year period from 1950 – 2000, the incidence of non-Hodgkin lymphoma (NHL) increased dramatically by about 300%.
    In 2009, approximately 5,500 Australians are projected to be diagnosed with lymphomas; the equivalent of 12 people every day. Of these, most (89%) have non-Hodgkin lymphomaii.
     In 2010, it is projected there will be 4,734 Australians diagnosed with non- Hodgkin lymphoma (an increase of 30.5% since 2002)ii.

  44. Gaye
    June 3, 2012 at 9:47 am | #44

    Goodness Liz, as I read down this page, I could not believe that there was not one person speaking out against immunisations, have they been cut out or are they toooo scared to reply as they would be demonised by those on here…
    It would appear in todays society that if you do not believe in something, that you are miss informed, do not have a brain, that they are listening to all the hype etc. There are enough Professors and Dr’s who have taken the risk of loosing their liscence to speak out now, notice that if they speak out they can lose their liscence, plus one has to wonder why if a child is damaged by immunisation that drug companies cannot be sued.. .
    Well I have seen much damage done by immunisations, no sorry by the chemicals in vaccinations, and with the horrific increase of cancers, ADD, autism, Aspergers, ear problems, and many other diseases in our children, does it mean as I have said above that we have exchanged the mild child hood diseases for other horrors..

    Although Britain has the lowest rate of increases in childhood cancers with Australia and the US being the worst, Britain, recorded childhood cancer incidence rates increased by 38 per cent between 1966 and 2000. Sadly, cancer is the biggest killer of Australian children with approximately 600 cases across Australia every year. Then of course we now have Asthma which while my husband was a teacher then principal of different schools 40 years ago, in NZ we very really saw children with asthma, I didn’t even know what it was.. but as the years have gone by, just about every child is on some form of pills or puffers for something now.. He is still a Principal and is horrified at just how sick and weak todays children are.. just so many children having to have so many weeks of school now, young adults and young parents seem to be so often sick, they seem to get everything that goes around.
    Now there is Autism where the degree of damage varies where some child are so badly damaged that they cant function at all, we have ADD, Aspergers, all things that up until 30 years ago my husband had not seen in his many years of teaching/principal ..
    There are now mysterious child diseases in Uganda and other diseases have risen… so with getting rid of the mild child hood diseases have we opened a Pandora’s box??? by the way, my grand daughter died in my arms only an hr after her immunisation, I was able to revive her, but what if we had of put her down to bed when we got home???

    On the whole Life expediency has increased as a result of considerable environmental and social changes early in the 20th century, with resulting improvements in the health of mothers and children. The social and economic environment around 1901 was harsh and difficult for many families; many children were malnourished. Life expediency has doubled to 80 years since the beginning of the 1900 to the end of the twentieth century.
    The under five mortality fell from 2,604 per 100,000 in males and from 2,214 in females in 1907 to 137 and 111 respectively in 1998. More than 50% of the fall had occurred by 1930 and most (more than 80%) by 1960. By the 1950s mass vaccination of a couple of diseases and antibiotics became available.

    Caldwell (Caldwell 1999) quoted Alfred Marshall (1890) who attributed mortality declines in the 19th century to “the growth of temperance, of medical knowledge, of sanitation and of general cleanliness”. Thomas McKeown in the UK (McKeown 1979) and Douglas Gordon in Australia (Gordon 1976) both suggested that changes in living conditions, particularly better nutrition (which would have increased host resistance to infection) and improved hygiene (reducing contact with infecting organisms) played a more important role than improved medical knowledge. This was in the first few decades of the 20th century when falls in deaths in infancy and childhood were due mainly to fewer children dying from gastroenteritis, respiratory and other infections (Lancaster 1956a; Lancaster 1956b).

  45. Gaye
    June 3, 2012 at 10:12 am | #45

    Yes Nathan, according to the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine J R Soc Med. 2006 March; 99(3): 156. The Cutter Incident: How America’s First Polio Vaccine Led to a Growing Vaccine Crisis.
    In April 1955 more than 200 000 children in five Western and mid-Western USA states received a polio vaccine in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective. Within days there were reports of paralysis Subsequent investigations revealed that the vaccine, manufactured by the California-based family firm of Cutter Laboratories, had caused 40 000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10, which of course would then have lead to a massive spread of the disease. The live virus was also going through the child and parents were contracting the disease via the faeces. Unfortunately
    it was found in 1960, that the rhesus monkey kidney cells used to prepare the poliovirus vaccines were infected with the SV40 virus (Simian Virus-40) which would later cause tumors in those it was given to.
    Between 1959 and 1960 Dr. Bernice Eddy, a researcher with the National Institute of Health (NIH), made a startling discovery.

    While examining the minced kidney cells of rhesus monkeys – from which the the polio vaccines were derived – she discovered “that the cells would die without any apparent cause,” according to a report by Michael E. Horwin, M.A., J.D., published in the Nov. 3, 2003, issue of the Albany Law Journal of Science & Technology.

    Though Sabin’s vaccine had the advantages of being administered orally and of fostering wider `contact immunity’, it could also be re-activated by passage through the gut, resulting in occasional cases of polio

  46. June 3, 2012 at 10:13 am | #46

    I became a vaccine advocate in 2010. I learnt about Andrew Wakefield’s striking off and was curious. I read posts from Wakefield’s supporters and his opponents. The more I read, the more I became convinced that Wakefield was a fraud. I also realised that anti vaccinationists had hijacked autism advocacy and I feared that there would be a backlash against us. So I started to blog on the issues.

  47. Gaye
    June 3, 2012 at 10:23 am | #47

    Krebiozen, it is called money…
    The put down of people who are against immunisations is not on, everyone has the right to do their own investigations, and as long as they are sensible they have the right to their opinion.. When pharmaceutical companies are making trillions out of drugs for every thing that they can think of is it no wonder that people are worried as to their real agenda, take this as an example…

    By 1960, Horwin notes, the Salk injectable polio vaccine had been given to about 98 million American children and adults, while Sabin’s oral version had been given to about 10,000 Americans and tens of millions of Soviet citizens, where trials had been conducted. “It was estimated that 10% to 30% of the vaccines contained live SV40,” he wrote, noting that despite the link discovered by Dr. Eddy, no federal agency and no new federal rules that regulated the manufacture, sale and distribution of vaccines required makers of the polio vaccine to “discard their SV40-contaminated poliovirus seeds which were the source for all subsequent polio vaccines.”

    Subsequent federal testing of the vaccines, which occurred in the mid-1960s, were also inadequate, Horwin notes, because “the fourteen-day SV40 tests were not long enough to detect the virus.” Yet in the years afterward, the incidence of pediatric cancer increased.

    “Indeed, the pediatric cancer rate continued to climb through the 1960′s, 70′s, 80′s and 90′s,” he wrote.

    That claim is backed by other research as well.

    “Whether childhood cancer is becoming more common is a controversial question among scientists,” writes Amy D. Kyle, for EnviroHealthPolicy.net.

    “Data from the cancer tracking systems in the US suggest that childhood cancer is increasing,” she adds, noting a graph which tracked the increase in pediatric cancer rates in the latter part of the 20th century.

    The American Childhood Cancer Association goes a step further, stating that according to statistics, cancer is the number one killer of children in the U.S.
    In 2005 the National Network for Immunization Information published a somewhat conflicting report regarding a link between SV40 and increased cancer rates.

    “Although SV40 has biological properties consistent with a cancer-causing virus, it has not been conclusively established whether it has caused cancer in humans,” said the report. “Epidemiological studies of groups of people who received polio vaccine during 1955-1963 do not show an increased cancer risk.”

    But later, the same report seems to contradict itself:

    However, a number of studies have found SV40 in certain forms of cancer in humans, such as mesotheliomas – rare tumors located in the lungs – brain and bone tumors; the virus has also been found to be associated with some types of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.

    In 2002, the IOM’s (Institute of Medicine) Immunization Safety Review Committee considered that the available data was inadequate to conclude whether or not the contaminated polio vaccine may have caused cancer. Because there is biological evidence supporting the theory that SV40-contamination of polio vaccines could contribute to human cancers,the committee recommended continued public health attention in the form of policy analysis, communication, and targeted biological research.
    So should not parents be more sus of these things when it can sometimes take many years for evidences of diseases to be seen.. after all most of the trials were only done for a week or two, and on whose babies did they do that on before they said that it was safe???? yours????…
    Why is there now one in 8 children with austism, why is there so many kids with cancers, etc

  48. June 3, 2012 at 12:45 pm | #48

    An antivax chiropractor sent me a link to a paper showing how mortality was declining prevax era. Even then, knowing nothing about vax, epi or that JPandS is a fringe publication – I realised the argument was a fallacy because it ignored morbidity. That got me hooked – why would people believe this sort of stuff – especially being interest in the concept of denial in general. Years later I created http://vaxfax.me as a search engine that parents could use to find reliable info about vax and a repository for some vax apps i like to tinker with. I debate antivax dailyish – they make me so mad and they definitely stoke my interest…

  49. Autismum
    June 3, 2012 at 2:52 pm | #49

    How much formaldehyde is in vaccines? How much is injected in total? Now, how much formaldehyde does the body make, each day, in its metabolic processes?
    I’m not 67, but I had measles and remember the misery of it and the fear in my mother and grandmother that my sister and I could go blind. One child in my class never returned to school after measles because her sight was so badly damaged. This was the 1980s and the UK.
    Is it even conceivable to you that the increase in cancer, for example, is a consequence of human beings reaching greater ages than they ever used to? That screening and detection techniques have come on in leaps and bounds and that people who are at risk of these conditions have been identified and are monitored more closely? No, it’s gotta be the vaccines.

  50. Autismum
    June 3, 2012 at 3:00 pm | #50

    Absolutely. It’s always the parents who are front and centre. They recovered their children who are entirely passive in process at best or one of many obstacles to their parents’ heroism. Any progress their kids make is because of the treatments/effort/sacrifices mum and dad made and never acknowledged as a breakthrough for the child himself/herself.
    Please keep up the good work. There are at least as many who admire what you do as hate it.

  51. Autismum
    June 3, 2012 at 3:12 pm | #51

    If you want to swap anecdote for anecdote my uncle (by marriage) is an ex head teacher in Ireland. He would say the number of kids using puffers and being off with ear and chest infections went down from the 70s to the last couple of years (when he retired) because people are less likely to smoke around their children.
    He also mourns a time when children who would now be diagnosed as autistic were ostracized and even punished for their behaviour. They certainly did exist before there was wider awareness. Anecdotes count for little. We can swap ‘em all day long.
    “Now there is Autism where the degree of damage varies where some child are so badly damaged that they cant function at all”
    When wasn’t there autism? Before it wasn’t called autism or before you heard about it?
    And, for your information, my autistic son is not damaged. He is severely autistic and to say he or others “cannot function at all” is ludicrous.
    “There are now mysterious child diseases in Uganda and other diseases have risen… ”
    Could you be more vague? Try being a little more specific and backing up your sweeping assertions.

  52. Autismum
    June 3, 2012 at 3:36 pm | #52

    One in 8 with autism? Where are you getting that from?
    Is the question you are so clumsily grasping for, “why has the prevalence of autism seemingly increased?” There are a whole host of reasons which, no doubt, you’ll be ready to dismiss with a single anecdote. I’ll summarise: increased awareness, better and earlier diagnosis, a redefinition of ASD and social changes.

  53. June 3, 2012 at 4:42 pm | #53

    Gaye, I am familiar with the Cutter incident 50 years ago. It has little to do with Liz’s unsupported claim that last year, in India, the OPV caused 36000 cases of paralysis.

  54. June 3, 2012 at 4:52 pm | #54

    “Although SV40 has biological properties consistent with a cancer-causing virus, it has not been conclusively established whether it has caused cancer in humans,” said the report. “Epidemiological studies of groups of people who received polio vaccine during 1955-1963 do not show an increased cancer risk.”
    But later, the same report seems to contradict itself:
    However, a number of studies have found SV40 in certain forms of cancer in humans, such as mesotheliomas – rare tumors located in the lungs – brain and bone tumors; the virus has also been found to be associated with some types of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.

    People who understand the difference between correlation and causation can see pretty clearly how those two sentences are not contradictory.

    Regardless, SV40 was an issue fifty years ago and has nothing to do with the safety of modern vaccines.

  55. Chris
    June 3, 2012 at 6:12 pm | #55

    I hope they also compare the relative risk between the vaccines and the actual diseases. Especially the diseases that are making a come back due to those who seem to “investigate before you vaccinate” at the very unreliable Google University.

    And that they learn how interpret VAERS reports, and compare the risks to the entire population. And that they are sure to read the disclaimer before using VAERS.

    Though, there is no way to know if this class you describes actually exists. Since you are using very odd terminology in regards to medical risk assessment. If the class taught real research it would emphasize using primary scientific literature, and not company lawyer written package inserts.

  56. Chris
    June 3, 2012 at 6:55 pm | #56

    My vaccine advocacy began over twenty years ago because my first born had medical issues (seizures) and required herd immunity for pertussis. At that time our county was experiencing a resurgence of pertussis, and the beginning of the measles outbreak that killed over 120 Americans. So I made it a habit to ask about the vaccine status of children in playgroups.

    When he was older I then participated in an online listserv for his specific disability. About twelve or so years ago some others on the list brought up vaccines as a cause for the disability, where I would reply it was more than likely my son’s seizures. It started off quietly, and then they became more strident. One tried to get me booted off the listserv for politely noting that the MMR vaccine never contained thimerosal. After getting several nasty-grams off list from these people I left that listserv (many of those were because I objected to chelating children, just a month or two after I left Tariq Nadama was killed).

    Because the vaccine question kept coming up, I started to do some internet searching (and this was still using a phone modem). That is where I found this very accurate depiction of the anti-vax information: The Anti-Immunization Activists: A Pattern of Deception.

    I also found my way to UseNet, where I was introduced to John Scudamore’s whale.to website. That was a very strong indication of the tactics and tropes one could expect from an anti-science group (like a couple who have commented on this thread).

    It was also on UseNet that I “met” Tsu Dho Nimh, Peter Bowditch and Orac.

  57. June 3, 2012 at 8:26 pm | #57

    My second daughter was born soon after Wakefield’s fraudulent study was published. Prior to that time, I did not spend a nanosecond thinking about vaccines. I travelled a whole bunch in my corporate life, so I was well vaccinated before heading to Brazil or Thailand or India.

    Anyways, as a medical researcher, I got all kinds of journals that came to my office, and sometimes I’d bring them home. I had the Lancet because it some article that was interest to me, and I left on my desk in my house. My wife, who had no medical background, read the article and was panicked. She and I had a massive argument over whether to vaccinate our children, so I brought some infectious disease textbooks home, and marked all the photos of children with the disease. I won the argument, though I had to go nuclear.

    At the time, I just thought the article was total crap, and kind of wondered why the Lancet published it. All I can remember of that initial reading was that I thought Mr. Wakefield (in my mind he no longer rates a “Dr.” honorific) was making a specious conclusion from so few patients. I honestly shrugged it off as one of those “silly articles” that will just end up in the dustbin of medical research. I went back to focusing on trying to find the magic bullet to prevent restenosis of coronary arteries post-angioplasty.

    Now remember, when the article was published, the internet (as we know it) was in its infancy. But I guess there were usenet mailing lists that described the conclusion, and I would bet within 1-2 years I was inundated by friends who decided that they wouldn’t vaccinate their children. I patiently explained to them that they were crazy.

    But about 5 or so years ago, after watching how much money has been wasted by the NIH and its equivalents in other countries to find absolutely no link between vaccines and neurological deficits, I went from patient to downright rude. Anyone who doesn’t vaccinate their children, should be arrested, and the children adopted by real parents who really care and who don’t depend upon Jenny McCarthy as their information source.

    And I’m still pissed off that the UK hasn’t arrested Wakefield, and executed with one of those medieval drawing and quartering things. He lied. That lie has lead to uncounted number of deaths of children. If that’s not depraved indifference to human life, I do not know what is.

    And anyone here who writes that “vaccines do XYZ”, you are full of crap. You have no intellect. You lack any evidence whatsoever. But if you have real evidence, bring it. I want to analyze. I want to study it. And if it is real evidence, then I’ll apologize to that fraud Wakefield. But after seeing millions spent to find not cause/effect between vaccines and whatever, I’m really not holding my breath.

  58. Michael Simpson
    June 3, 2012 at 8:27 pm | #58

    So it was UseNet. Because I don’t think the University of Google had much traction in the late 90′s.

  59. Michael Simpson
    June 3, 2012 at 8:29 pm | #59

    Bring evidence. Opinion has little weight with real scientists. But I’m almost certain that you have none, but as opposed to your close-mindedness to real evidence, I openminded to all evidence, and smart enough to know what qualifies as real evidence and rejecting what isn’t. Of course Pharmacists push homeopathy and junk medicine, so I shouldn’t be surprised.

  60. Th1Th2
    June 3, 2012 at 8:45 pm | #60

    And anyone here who writes that “vaccines do XYZ”, you are full of crap. You have no intellect. You lack any evidence whatsoever. But if you have real evidence, bring it. I want to analyze. I want to study it. And if it is real evidence, then I’ll apologize to that fraud Wakefield.

    Apologize now.

  61. June 3, 2012 at 9:00 pm | #61

    Gaye,

    everyone has the right to do their own investigations, and as long as they are sensible they have the right to their opinion

    Do you think that claiming the polio vaccine caused 36,000 cases of paralytic polio in India last year is sensible when the truth is there was only one confirmed case caused by the wild virus? Especially when it is directed at someone living in a part of the world where a fall in OPV uptake has resulted in many cases of paralytic polio? I don’t.

  62. Chris
    June 3, 2012 at 10:37 pm | #62

    Well, there was Digital’s AltaVista, and a couple of other odd search engines. Then there were people who were posting “helpful” sites that are mentioned in the link I gave.

    I found Quackwatch, which had a link to a list of untrustworthy websites. That turned out to be Peter Bowditch’s Rsoles list. And his pages about discussions on Usenet made me venture forth there a bit more (I had posted a couple of times before).

    Dealing with Scudamore was surreal. I actually clicked a link on his whale.to page about smallpox, and was taken aback by the author referring to American Indians as “savages.” Then I looked around a bit and found it was something written in the 1870s or so. As we noticed today a typical anti-vax argument is to bring up things that happened fifty, or in the case of Scudamore, over a hundred years ago and claim it applies to the present.

    Another tactic was to claim that the diseases are not just renamed, which ignores the modern technology that can distinguish not only the virus or bacteria, but what specific
    strain it was (there are three polio strains).

    I stopped going to Usenet years ago. It is just too full of spam, and the same characters are still rehashing the same arguments over and over again. And still no one has answered with data showing that any vaccine is more dangerous than the disease, and I was asking that on UseNet at least eight years ago.

  63. Me
    June 3, 2012 at 10:52 pm | #63

    Where’s your evidence? He said he wanted evidence. You know, like a peer reviewed scientific paper that shows that vaccines cause XYZ.

  64. Th1Th2
    June 3, 2012 at 11:14 pm | #64

    Another tactic was to claim that the diseases are not just renamed, which ignores the modern technology that can distinguish not only the virus or bacteria, but what specific strain it was (there are three polio strains)

    Modern technology has since expanded the classification of poliovirus which not only includes the wild-type strains, but the OPV-like strains and the VDPV strains as well.

    Your severe knowledge deficit obviously does not represent what technology is today.

  65. Th1Th2
    June 3, 2012 at 11:17 pm | #65

    Another tactic was to claim that the diseases are not just renamed, which ignores the modern technology that can distinguish not only the virus or bacteria, but what specific strain it was (there are three polio strains).

    Modern technology has since expanded the classification of poliovirus which not only includes the wild-type strains, but the OPV-like strains and the VDPV strains as well.

    Your severe knowledge deficit obviously does not represent what technology is today.

  66. Chris
    June 3, 2012 at 11:23 pm | #66

    The character you responded to is often called “Thingy”, named after Thing One and Thing Two from Dr. Seuss books. She is not a normal person, so it is best that you just ignore her and do not even attempt to engage in any kind of dialog.

  67. June 4, 2012 at 12:36 pm | #67

    Th1Th2 :

    And anyone here who writes that “vaccines do XYZ”, you are full of crap. You have no intellect. You lack any evidence whatsoever. But if you have real evidence, bring it. I want to analyze. I want to study it. And if it is real evidence, then I’ll apologize to that fraud Wakefield.

    Apologize now.

    Absolutely not. The author of this blog may ask politely if she thought I went over the edge, but in the meantime, bring the evidence. Because I know you have absolutely none (and in science absolutes are extremely rare), otherwise apologize for all the children who have died because the fraudulent research from Andy and promoted by the anti-vaccination lunatic kept kids from getting the safest medication possible for deadly diseases.

    I’ve read your comments. You’re a bit of a tool.

  68. Michael Simpson
    June 4, 2012 at 12:45 pm | #68

    Chris…the vaccine lunacy is rife with logical fallacies, historical errors, and, as we can see with Th1Th2, a seriously deficient education in science and medicine. Relying upon the University of Google education is one of the worst things that have happened to medicine.

    I actually paid attention to UseNet more back then, I had a couple of pretty powerful programs for searching keywords. Most people have no clue about UseNet.

    Your point about renaming diseases is interesting, because it’s happening with Whooping cough today, as there seems to be a mutant genotype that has evolved to avoid the immune response to the main genotype. Australian researchers are already developing a vaccine for that, which will probably be added to the main pertussis (or TDaP) vaccine.

    Remember, one of the hallmarks of pseudoscience is the lack of progress in research. There has been zero (and when I mean zero, I don’t believe I’m rounding down) confirmatory research, and we found out that Wakefield was a lying fraud. But pseudoscience insists that they are progressing, when it’s never reported.

  69. Michael Simpson
    June 4, 2012 at 12:45 pm | #69

    Th1Th2 :

    Another tactic was to claim that the diseases are not just renamed, which ignores the modern technology that can distinguish not only the virus or bacteria, but what specific strain it was (there are three polio strains).

    Modern technology has since expanded the classification of poliovirus which not only includes the wild-type strains, but the OPV-like strains and the VDPV strains as well.
    Your severe knowledge deficit obviously does not represent what technology is today.

    Apologize now!

  70. Michael Simpson
    June 4, 2012 at 1:09 pm | #70

    Autismum :
    How much formaldehyde is in vaccines? How much is injected in total? Now, how much formaldehyde does the body make, each day, in its metabolic processes?
    I’m not 67, but I had measles and remember the misery of it and the fear in my mother and grandmother that my sister and I could go blind. One child in my class never returned to school after measles because her sight was so badly damaged. This was the 1980s and the UK.
    Is it even conceivable to you that the increase in cancer, for example, is a consequence of human beings reaching greater ages than they ever used to? That screening and detection techniques have come on in leaps and bounds and that people who are at risk of these conditions have been identified and are monitored more closely? No, it’s gotta be the vaccines.

    Hey Autismum, I know you’ve been around the block on these anti-vax issues for awhile. One of the things that you will notice about anyone pushing a pseudoscience is that they grab ahold of scientific terminology, without really understanding it, just to make it sound like a good science. Formaldehyde sounds nasty, because many of us who had taken a biology course remember that the frog or whatever we studied was preserved in it. Obviously, formaldehyde is a killer chemical.

    But like you said about formaldehyde, it’s actually an essential part of the cellular redox reactions creating a compound NADH that is used by all cells to transmit electrons (if I got that wrong, please correct me, I’m relying upon my biochemistry education from eons ago). If I recall correctly, there is somewhere around 1-2 g of formaldehyde floating around your body at any particular time. Maybe more after drinking. This is a constant amount, more or less, of course depending on body size. A typical vaccine contains less than 1% of that amount. Even multiple vaccines only add a tiny bit more. The body utilizes that level of formaldehyde or clears it through the kidneys.

    This is what pseudoscience types always fail to understand. Minor levels of contaminants are simply cleared by a normal human being quickly. Formaldehyde is a carcinogen and poison at very high levels. But at low levels it’s at the background level of what the body requires.

    Annoying.

  71. Th1Th2
    June 4, 2012 at 2:02 pm | #71

    I do not understand the reason why post #66 is still being held up in the moderation queue since June 3, 2012 at 11:54 pm. Must be the links. Anyway, here’s the repost, infection promoter.

    ————
    Non-medical people would usually demand for “peer reviewed scientific paper” because they do not understand basic immunology and pathogenesis.

    Fact: Measles vaccine causes primary measles infection.

    Evidence (after evidence).

    1. Measles vaccine produces an inapparent or mild, noncommunicable infection.
    h_ttp://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00053391.htm

    2. The presence of IgM is generally accepted as evidence
    of primary measles infection (by disease or
    vaccine). However, absence of IgM does not exclude
    infection, as the sensitivity of some IgM assays is low
    (Schluederberg et al. 1973), and the timing of specimen
    collection is important, because of the shortlived
    IgM response (Figure 2) (Heffner &
    Schluederberg 1967).
    h_ttp://www.who.int/vaccines-documents/DocsPDF-IBI-e/mod7_e.pdf

    3. We have previously demonstrated that measles-specific IgM may persist for at least 8 weeks after primary vaccination, but it is unknown how quickly IgM appears. This study determined the timing of the rise of measles-specific IgM and IgG after primary measles vaccination with Schwartz vaccine[...]A total of 209 of the 224 children who returned for the second visit had prevaccination sera that were both IgM and IgG negative. The postvaccination IgM positivity rates for these 209 children were 2% at 1 week, 61% at 2 weeks, 79% at 3 weeks, and 60% at 4 weeks.
    h_ttp://intl-cvi.asm.org/content/6/2/178.full

    Are you happy now, infection promoter?
    ——————–

    Next, rubella vaccine. Do you want to give it a try?

  72. Th1Th2
    June 4, 2012 at 2:03 pm | #72

    Formaldehyde = feces. Now you do the analogy.

  73. Tsu Dho Nimh
    June 4, 2012 at 5:30 pm | #73

    I am quite sure that I was exposed to SV40 from any of the many polio vaccines I have had.

    You know what? It may cause cancer in hamsters, but I am not a hamster. I am a cranky old lady whose sole episode of cancer was a basal cell carcinoma from excessive sun exposure.

  74. Snoozie
    June 4, 2012 at 7:02 pm | #74

    I am similar Kristine. Every time I see something misleading or incorrect posted by an anti-vaccinationist, I feel like my silence could be a tacit form of approval. I am provoked to speak up because I don’t want unsuspecting new parents to see the anti-vaccine nonsense go unchallenged.

  75. Jenni
    June 4, 2012 at 11:09 pm | #75

    Critics can actually make us look at our believe system and our understanding of our knowledge. As long as we do not allow fear to control us or make decisions because of our fears we are on the right track. If someone continually critises I have a tendency to tune-out because they are being very needy.

    I have 5 children who are in the 30′s now and a couple of them have had a couple of immunisations however after one had a really bad reaction to their first injection I decided to question my understanding of the whole immunization thing. I did not make a big deal about it I just didn’t immunise. Because I did not make waves nobody even thought to ask if my children were immunised. If you wish to create chaos and stress for yourself then let every one know about it. It was only when the youngest two started school that I was told that they had to have the immunizations to be able to register for school. I told the school I would look into it and did nothing about it and was never asked again about it.

    My children are now choosing to not vaccination their children and like me do not make waves about it just do it. They have had some pressure from their in-laws about it however they have done their recearch and like in any debate reason always wins over if it is the ethical and moral way to go. In other words don’t lie or use fear to convince someone to do something.

    As your readers may also aware that burning natural gas or bottled gas in the home ie: cooking and heating allows for unburnt toxins to be breathed in (one of which is formaldehyde). If it is ducted heating it is burnt outside so the toxins are not inside. We have always had toxin free houses and several years ago moved into a house with gas heating & cooking. It took me a couple of years to work out what was causing the aches and pains in my muscles and joints. I am still trying to find out more and there does not appear to be any reasearch on the subject or I just have not looked hard enough.

    I was recently at a meeting where they turned on a gas heater and I walked out of the meeting and sat in the car waiting for my husband. Everyone was informed of why I was leaving the meeting. Since that meeting I have had one couple say they have started to now question some of their aches and pains as they were not informed that the gas can cause problems.

    I find that people are more likely to change their ideas on things by gentle persuasion or general understanding rather than using fear driven tactics. Also parents need support not bombardment with comments that they should be doing this or that. Offer suggestions on alternative methods of doing things. Humans have an amazing ability to know what is right or wrong for them once we take the fear out of it so we need to encourage people to make the right decision for themselves which they will not have regrets about. A decision is only made with the extent of any persons individual knowledge and because we have no idea what knowledge an individual has we can not criticise their decision.

    Critics are only critising themselves because of their own perceived inabilities or fears.

  76. Chris
    June 4, 2012 at 11:40 pm | #76

    Offer suggestions on alternative methods of doing things.

    Here is one gentle alternative: instead of being held hostage by your fears, learn to live with real evidence. The fear has closed your mind to learning about reality and relative risk. This is why you left a meeting with a gas heater and went to wait in a car, which is also a cause of carbon monoxide poisoning (not to mention car accidents are a major cause of death in this country).

    Replace your fears with knowledge. Learn some science and basic statistics. One way to start is to read the book Lies, Damned Lies, and Science: How to Sort through the Noise Around Global Warming, the Latest Health Claims, and Other Scientific Controversies.

    Now, I will ask you to suggest an alternative method of doing something: How do we protect children from diseases? What is your alternative method for preventing for diseases that are now returning: pertussis and measles? If it is not vaccines, then describe how it could be done but with actual evidence. The evidence needs to include the title, journal and dates of the PubMed indexed papers that show your alternative actually works.

  77. June 5, 2012 at 3:37 am | #77

    Great post – really interesting idea that the harder anti-vax activists push, the more counter-productive it becomes.

    It’s also a cautionary tale for vaccine advocates not to be too agressive, even though science is on your side.

    Delighted to see so many people taking it upon themselves to advocate for vaccination. Alas, the anti-vax groups/individuals are small but motivated. Looking forward to seeing more parents weigh in on this issue.

  78. Kelly
    June 5, 2012 at 10:57 am | #78

    They have had some pressure from their in-laws about it however they have done their recearch and like in any debate reason always wins over if it is the ethical and moral way to go. In other words don’t lie or use fear to convince someone to do something.

    This is interesting to me because if you take fear and lies out of the equation and just look at the research, vaccination wins hands down. Vaccination is also the ethical and moral way to go since vaccination contributes to herd immunity which protects us all.

    A decision is only made with the extent of any persons individual knowledge and because we have no idea what knowledge an individual has we can not criticise their decision.

    In some ways I agree with this. A parent that makes an ignorant decision cannot really be criticized because they don’t know any better. However, there is so much information out there on the benefit of vaccinations, that those that purposefully avoid them, should be criticized. I support immunization laws that make exemptions harder to get than the vaccinations and programs that provide immunizations for those that could not otherwise afford them. I also appreciate the efforts of ECBT that continue to strive for awareness about the importance of vaccination. Parents that claim to have “done their research” and then go on to make a decision not supported by research should be made aware that not immunization is decision that puts others at risk. As a society we shouldn’t tolerate behaviour that harms others and those that partake in such behaviour should be criticized.

  79. liz allen
    June 5, 2012 at 11:19 am | #79

    Gaye,
    I appreciate your writing, I agree with you. I also remember when measles, mumps, and chickenpox were very common diseases, and no one worried about them. It was the reverse of now, at that time very few people had asthma, allergies, seizure disorders, no one had autism. Most children were healthy and normal, no autism, no learning disabilities, no ADHD. They behaved well in class, Sunday school, and scouting, unlike now.
    Formaldehyde is a deadly poison, and has no business being injected into the body. Aluminum and mercury are also deadly poisons, and the fact that many don’t immediately appear to be adversely affected by them does not mean that they are not devastating for many thousands who receive them in injections.

  80. liz allen
    June 5, 2012 at 11:27 am | #80

    Thanks, Gaye, I feel the same way you do, it’s nice to have met you here. I think, though, that while the vaccinations are dangerous because of the chemicals in them, they are also dangerous because the body reacts, not just to the chemicals, but also to the weakened or killed disease pathogens themselves. The body always reacts with inflammation to a vaccine, it is supposed to, but when the reaction is extreme, it can manifest as encephalitis, causing autism, ADHD, learning disorder, or seizure disorders. The immune system is skewed from an appropriate Th-1 response to pathogens, the goal of its healthy development after birth, to an inappropriate autoimmune Th-2 response, resulting in asthma, allergies, bowel disease, eczema, chronic ear infections, etc., when different body cells which resemble ingredients in the vaccines are mistakenly attacked by the immune system.

  81. liz allen
    June 5, 2012 at 11:29 am | #81

    Thanks again, Gaye, what a wonderful, detailed response! I’m so glad you have joined the fray!

  82. liz allen
    June 5, 2012 at 11:34 am | #82

    I meant to specify in the first three years of life. It may do so later, but it would not be common. Vaccines given after three years of age are more likely to cause paralysis and seizure disorders of different kinds, as well as all sorts of autoimmune diseases, probably because the brain is more developed and no longer as susceptible to the brain damage that is autism. The hep-B and MMR vaccines are the most likely to cause autism, the pertussis vaccine sometimes, there were some reported cases generations ago from the smallpox vaccine. But in susceptible individuals, any vaccine might cause autism.

  83. liz allen
    June 5, 2012 at 11:37 am | #83

    Great response, Th1Th2! I enjoy and agree with all your comments!

  84. liz allen
    June 5, 2012 at 11:47 am | #84

    Nathan,
    Look at the evidence of K. Pl Sethunath in the Deccen Chronicle Press on “Paralysis Cases After Polio Vaccine.”
    http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/cities/thiruvananthapuram/rise-paralysis-cases-after-polio-vaccine-234
    I assure you I am not making anything up.

  85. liz allen
    June 5, 2012 at 11:52 am | #85

    autismmum,
    The rates I have read are that the 1 in 88 in the U.S. was in the group born in 2000, like my goddaughter, who got autism from a vaccine. Rates now in the U.S. are higher. State and school district counts find that in New Jersey and Utah the rates are as high as 1 in 50, 1 in 39 boys. The highest rates in the world are among the Somali children in Minneapolis and Ugandan children in Germany, I think it was something like 1 in 30 among them. At least in the U.S. the rates probably won’t reach 1 in 8 for another several decades. Does that make everyone feel better?

  86. Kelly
    June 5, 2012 at 12:35 pm | #86

    Indeed you are liz. Your own link describes an increase in non-polio AFP. The polio vaccine would cause polio AFP. This is a very important distinction.

    The increase in non-polio AFP is due to the increased surveillance needed to ensure eradication of polio. These cases have always been present, but the increased surveillance has made people more aware of the incidence rates.

    It is the common fallacy, “post hoc ergo propter hoc”, at play here. Just because an increase of non-polio AFP is correlated with the polio vaccine administration does *not* mean that the polio vaccine caused non-polio AFP.

    Perhaps you should talk to your “friend” cia parker, liz. She would make similar mistakes and was corrected repeatedly. She also though autism was a vaccine-injury even after being shown repeatedly that this is not true. She would also rhyme off a list of chronic conditions that again, are not caused by vaccines. Finally, she really liked to downplay the seriousness of vaccine preventable diseases while greatly exaggerating and even falsifying the risks of vaccines.

    It is the dishonest tactics like these that make me speak out against those that spread misinformation about vaccinations.

  87. Lara Lohne
    June 5, 2012 at 12:44 pm | #87

    liz allen :
    Gaye,
    I appreciate your writing, I agree with you. I also remember when measles, mumps, and chickenpox were very common diseases, and no one worried about them. It was the reverse of now, at that time very few people had asthma, allergies, seizure disorders, no one had autism. Most children were healthy and normal, no autism, no learning disabilities, no ADHD. They behaved well in class, Sunday school, and scouting, unlike now.
    Formaldehyde is a deadly poison, and has no business being injected into the body. Aluminum and mercury are also deadly poisons, and the fact that many don’t immediately appear to be adversely affected by them does not mean that they are not devastating for many thousands who receive them in injections.

    There was a study done in the UK (as I understand it, Autism Speaks is also conducting a study here in the US) of all the adults who have been newly diagnosed with an ASD using the current DSM diagnostic criteria. The averages they found were 1 in 100 newly diagnosed adults, those who were previously thought to just have profound learning disabilities (1% of the adult population with learning disabilities kind of also blows your ‘no learning disabilities’ statement out of the water also). These are adults with high functioning autism, Asperger’s Syndrome or are only mildly autistic. These are not young adults either, but adults in their 30′s, 40′s and 50′s. At the time you were growing up, the only ones who were diagnosed with autism, were only those who were moderately, severely or profoundly autistic, where it was obvious. All the others were labeled with learning disabilities or considered just plain weird. As adults they are able to get a diagnosis of autism though and the numbers of newly diagnosed adults is not that far off the current totals of children. Autism has been around this entire time, and stating that it has not is ignorant. I had a friend who had autism, high functioning but there was something about him that was just a little bit off, and I didn’t understand why until he told me of his autism. Before that I just thought he was weird. I was 18, he was 24 when I learned of this, back in 1989.

    If formaldehyde is so deadly, why are we all not dead just from the normal processes of living? Our bodies create significantly more formaldehyde then is present in any vaccine. There is no mercury in routine childhood vaccines, nor has their ever been (Thimerosal is not mercury and even it has been removed from all routine childhood vaccines, therefore this is an old and tired and antiquated argument.) I’d like to see also your links supporting the amount of deaths from aluminum poisoning as well. Keep in mind that just because you were not exposed to children with severe or profound autism when you were a child, doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. I’m sure you also had to have experienced the ‘weird kids’ in school who just didn’t fit for some reason. Guess what? Autism. Your statements are offensive to those who have and will live their lives with autism. You need to do more research from reputable places rather then just parroting the same old and tired anti-vaccine nonsense that’s been going around for at least a decade, if not longer, and have been thoroughly proven false.

  88. Lawrence
    June 5, 2012 at 2:32 pm | #88

    liz allen :
    autismmum,
    The rates I have read are that the 1 in 88 in the U.S. was in the group born in 2000, like my goddaughter, who got autism from a vaccine. Rates now in the U.S. are higher. State and school district counts find that in New Jersey and Utah the rates are as high as 1 in 50, 1 in 39 boys. The highest rates in the world are among the Somali children in Minneapolis and Ugandan children in Germany, I think it was something like 1 in 30 among them. At least in the U.S. the rates probably won’t reach 1 in 8 for another several decades. Does that make everyone feel better?

    @Liz – if Vaccine rates maintain a certain level of consistency over time (which they have), how do you account for the rapid increase? Vaccine formulations haven’t changed significantly – except for the removal of Thermisol, and recently added vaccines like Varicella & HPV haven’t been given the same quantities or at the same percentages as the regular vaccines, so please explain the mechanisms (outside of better reporting & diagnosis) that you would say led to this increase?

  89. Autismum
    June 5, 2012 at 3:34 pm | #89

    Well you didn’t specify but, in fact, that sloppiness is pretty irrelevant because no vaccine given at any time has been shown to cause autism.
    ” Vaccines given after three years of age are more likely to cause paralysis and seizure disorders of different kinds, as well as all sorts of autoimmune diseases, probably because the brain is more developed and no longer as susceptible to the brain damage that is autism.”
    Citation for another vague statement please.
    “The hep-B and MMR vaccines are the most likely to cause autism, the pertussis vaccine sometimes, there were some reported cases generations ago from the smallpox vaccine.”
    Not only would I like citation to show that any of these vaccines can cause autism but I’d like to see studies showing this ranking that you’ve given them. While you search fruitlessly for those, I have a gorgeous little autist, my son, to go and play with.

  90. Autismum
    June 5, 2012 at 3:39 pm | #90

    Ha ha, I’ve been around the block alright!
    That’s how I remember it from my (also eons old) biochem. Yes there is also more circulating after a drinky-poo or too.

  91. Chris
    June 5, 2012 at 4:08 pm | #91

    Ms. Allen:

    I also remember when measles, mumps, and chickenpox were very common diseases, and no one worried about them.

    Then your memory is faulty. Since all of those diseases were known to cause discomfort, disability and death. Do you seriously want us to go back to the days when around five hundred people in the USA died from measles every year?

    Most children were healthy and normal, no autism, no learning disabilities, no ADHD. They behaved well in class, Sunday school, and scouting, unlike now.

    Actually, I remember some of those kids. I remember the child in one of my elementary school classes who had a “wiggle worm” sign posted on his back, possibly a child with ADHD.

    Perhaps you have heard of a place called “Willowbrook.” If not, I suggest you look it up. That is where all those naughty abnormal children ended up at. Then there were all those special schools for the deaf and/or blind. Many because their mothers caught rubella, measles or chicken pox while pregnant (note: today’s NY Times science section contains a blurb that fever while pregnant is a possible cause of developmental disorders). Try reading some history.

    Formaldehyde is a deadly poison, and has no business being injected into the body. Aluminum and mercury are also deadly poisons,

    Along learning some basic 20th century history, you should take a class in chemistry and biology. Your body produces more formaldehyde as part of normal cell metabolism than what is contained in any vaccine. Plus, you consume aluminum every day by eating food grown in soil (one of the major components of soil minerals is aluminum). I hope you do not eat any fish. And I defy you to explain how any of those are more deadly than tetanospasmin.

  92. Chris
    June 5, 2012 at 4:13 pm | #92

    Ms. Allen, please post the title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed papers that show that any vaccine in the present pediatric schedule is more dangerous than the infections caused by the actual diseases. Provide actual scientific evidence for your claims.

    Some examples of what we expect:
    Pediatrics. 2001 Dec;108(6):E112
    Childhood vaccinations, vaccination timing, and risk of type 1 diabetes mellitus.

    Pediatrics. 2010 Jun;125(6):1134-41. Epub 2010 May 24.
    On-time vaccine receipt in the first year does not adversely affect neuropsychological outcomes.

  93. liz allen
    June 5, 2012 at 9:43 pm | #93

    They added Prevnar about ten years ago, and since most autistic children aren’t caught until they start school, that would have been about five years ago, and the CDC doesn’t report official national figures until twelve years after infancy. The flu shot was added as a recommended vaccine for everyone over six months old about seven years ago, and the mercury in the standard flu shot given every year to the most obedient would have more than offset the withdrawal of thimerosal from the other vaccines. Some places have added hepatitis-A to the recommended or even required schedule. Each addition would push a certain number of people over their personal tipping point into vaccine damage, whether from any individual vaccine or from the cumulative total. It would be good if someone were tracking this systematically, but of course no one is. Instead they just report the increase, rates have gone up an average of ten percent a year for the last ten years or so, they say they have no idea why it could be, but they don’t try to tease out the different contributing factors, or examine the difference in outcomes among those who vaccinate less or who refuse certain vaccines. They could insist on a thorough patient history of autoimmune or neurological disease in the patient or in his relatives before allowing vaccination, to take out those who are probably the most vulnerable to vaccine damage, but they don’t do that either. They could do a blood test to test for mitochondrial dysfunction before allowing vaccination, it’s still unclear whether such dysfunction precedes or follows receipt of the vaccine, but it would show concern for not causing damage in those most clearly vulnerable. There does exist a relatively cheap test for “soft” markers of mitochondrial dysfunction, but the medical cartel does not at present routinely take advantage of it, preferring to just let the chips fall where they may, and, after all, it’s not their problem. That is, in my opinion, why educated mothers vaccinate less than uneducated ones, they understand the political ramifications of this issue better than the less educated, and prefer not to let their child suffer for it.

  94. Nathan
    June 5, 2012 at 10:36 pm | #94

    the mercury in the standard flu shot given every year to the most obedient would have more than offset the withdrawal of thimerosal from the other vaccines

    Not even close. Only about half of the influenza vaccine supply has thimerosal, only about half of the child population receives it. And the amount of thimerosal is less than the combined amount that used to be in infant vaccines, and administered later as well. Nice try. Again with the making things up thing.

    They could insist on a thorough patient history of autoimmune or neurological disease in the patient or in his relatives before allowing vaccination, to take out those who are probably the most vulnerable to vaccine damage, but they don’t do that either.

    This is because those “most vulnerable to vaccine damage” is arbitarily decided by the antivaccine movement and not based in science. Vaccination is not contraindicated in the setting of autoimmune or neurological disease – they need disease protection as much as anyone, if not more, and studies do not show ain increased risk of these kinds of disorders

    They could do a blood test to test for mitochondrial dysfunction before allowing vaccination, it’s still unclear whether such dysfunction precedes or follows receipt of the vaccine, but it would show concern for not causing damage in those most clearly vulnerable. There does exist a relatively cheap test for “soft” markers of mitochondrial dysfunction, but the medical cartel does not at present routinely take advantage of it, preferring to just let the chips fall where they may, and, after all, it’s not their problem.

    The reason that they don’t screen for mito disorders is mostly because there is simply no existing screening tool for the entire population, and if there were, we would already be doing it. “Soft markers” are insufficient, because they would lead to a lot of unnecessary things like muscle biopsies due to the false positive rate. Not to mention that vaccinations are not contraindicated in mitochondrial disorders, again because the diseases themselves would wreak more havoc on a person with mito than a vaccine ever could.

    but they don’t try to tease out the different contributing factors, or examine the difference in outcomes among those who vaccinate less or who refuse certain vaccines.

    Yes, they have.

    http://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2011/webprogram/Paper9380.html

    “These results suggest that childhood vaccines do not increase children’s risk of developing autism and do not exacerbate the disorder severity in children who are later diagnosed with autism. Children who receive a greater number of vaccines overall, who receive the MMR vaccine, or who receive immunizations at a higher rate, do not differ significantly on subsequent behavioral measures from children who receive vaccines on an alternative schedule or children who do not receive vaccines.”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22521285

    CONCLUSIONS:
    In this study, there were not any convincing evidences that MMR vaccination and increasing the number of vaccine injections were associated with an increased risk of ASD in a genetically homogeneous population. Therefore, these findings indicate that there is no basis for avoiding vaccination out of concern for ASD.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/6/1134.abstract

    “Timely vaccination during infancy has no adverse effect on neuropsychological outcomes 7 to 10 years later. These data may reassure parents who are concerned that children receive too many vaccines too soon.”

    Unfortunately for the authors conclusion, no amount of evidence will chance some peoples’ minds.

  95. Nathan
    June 5, 2012 at 10:38 pm | #95

    Yes, I’m afraid misusing a news report to make an otherwise unsubstantiated claim is, at the core, “making things up.”

  96. Chris
    June 5, 2012 at 10:41 pm | #96

    Ms. Allen:

    The flu shot was added as a recommended vaccine for everyone over six months old about seven years ago, and the mercury in the standard flu shot given every year to the most obedient would have more than offset the withdrawal of thimerosal from the other vaccines.

    Statements like this is why we insist that you provide actual scientific documentation. Of course it does require a PubMed indexed article to show the basic fallacy of that comment, all we have to do is go to the list of pediatric vaccines with how much thimerosal is in each one: Thimerosal in Vaccines.

    Now going down the list I see there are eight influenza vaccines, and half say “free” in the “Thimerosal Status Concentration**(Mercury)” column. Do please tell us how exactly the influenza vaccine causes autism by giving us the verifiable statistics of numbers of children who only get the half with thimerosal.

    Now since the only other vaccine you mentioned was Prevnar, do please list the title, journal and dates of the PubMed indexed papers that show it is more dangerous than Streptococcus pneumoniae.

    And do also provide us the PubMed indexed papers that show people who have mitochondrial disorders suffer more from vaccines than the high fevers from diseases. That should be very interesting reading. Just do not post the paper with Dr. Jon Poling as an author, nor news articles on the court ruling.

  97. Chris
    June 5, 2012 at 10:52 pm | #97

    Argh, I left out a word: “Of course it does not require a PubMed indexed article to show the basic fallacy of that comment,”

    Also, Ms. Allen, along with actually providing verifiable scientific documentation for your statements: Could you please use paragraphs with line breaks?

    The wall of text is very hard to read, especially since you start with one idea, and then lump in several more in quick succession. Thank you.

  98. lilady
    June 5, 2012 at 11:30 pm | #98

    I come from a background in public health (public health nurse investigating vaccine-preventable diseases and part-time public health clinic nursing).

    I know only too well the devastation visited upon the families whose children were left with permanent intellectual, sensory, neurological and physical disabilities from a VPD. I recall a young infant who died from pertussis, contracted from an older household member and the children who died from bacterial meningitis and septic shock caused by these diseases.

    For the “older” poster here who “claims” to not recall the polio scares we experienced in early childhood before the Salk vaccine was developed and available…I lost my childhood friend to the disease. My cousin was left with permanent neurological sequelae following measles encephalitis.

    I have been an advocate on behalf of developmentally disabled children for the past 35 years because my son was born profoundly mentally and physically disabled. My advocacy work took me into the back wards of human warehouses…the so-called “developmental centers” or “state schools” where children and adults were housed in deplorable conditions. Some of the children I advocated for, became disabled because of the diseases that are now preventable with safe vaccines.

    I made a commitment to my son in 1976 to advocate for him and for other kids with disabling disorders and part of that commitment is to continue that advocacy even now, since his death in 2004.

  99. Jenni
    June 6, 2012 at 3:31 am | #99

    It is true Chris it is a fear that I went to the car instead of sitting in the meeting because I am aware that I will be unable to move for 2 – 4 days depending on the amount of exposure to the fumes from the gas.
    Science does some amazing things however they try to fix things instead of getting back to the basic cause of the illness. I am lucky because I took the time to work with the doctors, and naturopaths to establish what I was actually allergic and interolerant to. This only came about because of my stress levels being so high and there was no reason that they could find and it turned out that it was the allergies which actually puts the body into stress mode. This has now been proven by science. My journey started 20 years ago and science eventually caught up with the ancients already knew.

  100. June 6, 2012 at 8:49 am | #100

    I do find it irritating when people keep repeating these nonsensical claims about vaccines, particularly formaldehyde. Here’s a link to some information about methanol and formaldehyde in normal metabolism. The maximum amount a child would get from vaccines at one time is 0.2 mg. The normal body turnover of formaldehyde is estimated to be in excess of 30,000 mg. From the first link I gave above:

    Using a value of 49 L for total body water (0.8 L/kg bw for a 60 kg adult) and an equilibrium concentration of 2.6 mg/L (the background tissue formaldehyde concentration), the total formaldehyde content in the body can be estimated to be 122.5 mg. However, to maintain the equilibrium concentration of 2.6 mg/L, it was calculated that the daily turnover of formaldehyde would be 31-59 g/day, meaning that external sources of formaldehyde, including methanol, account for only 1-2% of the total daily turnover.

    Are we really expected to believe that 0.2 mg of formaldehyde can do any harm at all when the human body metabolizes 150,000 times as much each and every day? Is there any chance that after reading this Liz will stop claiming that “Formaldehyde is a deadly poison, and has no business being injected into the body”? I doubt it.

  101. Chris
    June 6, 2012 at 10:26 am | #101

    Perhaps there is a psychiatrist you can consult for your issues, Jenni. He/she might help you figure out why your fears are controlling your life.

  102. Jenni
    June 6, 2012 at 7:36 pm | #102

    Already done that Chris. That is when the Doctors (Scientists) found it was external (chemicals) causing the problems.

  103. Chris
    June 6, 2012 at 8:10 pm | #103

    Though you still need to find a way to figure out why the chemicals only affect you, and not other people. Do you also stay away from homes and restaurants that use gas cook tops? Why is it okay to sit in a car right behind a gas engine going down a roadway with all of the traffic fumes?

    And you need to figure out why you fear the very small risk from vaccines versus the much larger risk from the diseases. That is an irrational fear not supported by any real evidence. Especially since the most potent toxins are actually made by bacteria (like tetanospasmin and botulinum toxin).

    It seems like your fears are having an unpleasant affect on your life. I hope you find a way to stop being so afraid.

    I see you mentioned naturopaths. It is the experience of a family member that she was better served with a real psychiatrist than the naturopath. Unfortunately she discovered this by skipping going to the psychiatrist and going to the naturopath. She then discovered that the expensive homeopathic remedies she bought from the naturopath were worthless. Which is just as worthless as using applied kinessiology to diagnose allergies: Applied Kinesiology – How it is Done.

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  1. June 3, 2012 at 4:44 am | #1
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