Home > In the News, Preventable Diseases > The Cost of Containing An Epidemic

The Cost of Containing An Epidemic

May 4, 2012

We already know that there is a pertussis epidemic in Washington State. But here’s the update today.

The Governor is tapping into an emergency fund to help contain the epidemic and encourage residents to get vaccinated.

Perhaps this is a prime example of how it can be more costly to address an epidemic of a vaccine preventable disease than to first attempt to minimize the impact of disease through immunizations.

The Seattle Times and various other news sources have provided the following specifics in regards to the Washington state of affairs:

  • Governor Chris Gregoire is making $90,000 in crisis cash available to help strengthen a public awareness campaign about the need for vaccination.
  • The campaign will include radio ads, public service announcements, Facebook and Google ads, and possibly some bus and billboard ads as well.
  • The state has received approval from the federal government to divert federal funds for the purchase of 27,000 doses of vaccine that will be made available to the uninsured.
  • The state has already recorded 1,132 cases of pertussis so far this year, which is about 10 times more than last year.
  • The state has been seeing about 400 cases per month, which is four times more than the threshold for what is considered “epidemic”.
  • The Secretary of Health Mary Selecky and State Senator Maria Cantwell plan to ask the CDC to send investigators and epidemiologists to help the state study and contain the epidemic which will assist state health officials with their response and identify why the epidemic is growing so quickly.

So, what are your thoughts about this?  Do you think it will work, or is it too little, too late? 

Public health departments are typically tight on cash and there are lots of needs they must address.  But with two WA state infants who have previously died in 2011 and an additional 20 infants who have already been hospitalized this year, we can only hope that they can execute a plan that will help to contain this epidemic as quickly as possible.

While there may be some people who will not get vaccinated, no matter how many children die, perhaps there are more who would get vaccinated if they only understood the need for adolescent and adult Tdap boosters.  In Washington, it appears that they are hoping that will be the case.

  1. May 4, 2012 at 6:38 pm

    What is the cost of sickening a society with numerous useless vaccines? Does anybody notice that the vaccination rate is higher than in the 1990’s and the disease rate continues to climb? We’ve had over 90% baby vaccination rates for whooping cough vaccines for over 11 years and they’ve included even more shots since then for the adolescents at the time and yet more after 2000 and here we are with whooping cough in even higher numbers than it was before 1960? The same is happening in the USA, and their rate of vaccination is even higher than Australia. Has anyone with any authority noticed the numerous peer reviewed articles, the latest being from Dr Witt of Keiser in California showing the terrible efficacy of the vaccines? Yet the steam roller goes on to conclude” the vaccination rates are too low” and “we need more boosters for teenagers and adults”. If any of your children survive into their 50’s after you vaccinate the tar out of them, I’ll wager everything I have that they will be far sicker than our unvaccinated children who survived pertussis, mumps, measles, chicken pox, never got HepB, rotavirus etc and are thriving. Vitamin C is a time-tested and logical treatment for pertussis. If any of you learned how to treat it, you’d probably be able to calm down – that is if you dont’ have other agendas….

  2. Chris
    May 4, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    Has anyone with any authority noticed the numerous peer reviewed articles, the latest being from Dr Witt of Keiser in California showing the terrible efficacy of the vaccines?

    Unexpectedly Limited Durability of Immunity Following Acellular Pertussis Vaccination in Pre-Adolescents in a North American Outbreak.:

    .Conclusions: Our data suggests that the current schedule of acellular pertussis vaccine doses is insufficient to prevent outbreaks of pertussis. We noted a markedly increased rate of disease from age 8 through 12, proportionate to the interval since the last scheduled vaccine. Stable rates of testing ruled out selection bias. The possibility of earlier or more numerous booster doses of acellular pertussis vaccine either as part of routine immunization or for outbreak control should be entertained.

    Dr. Humphries, have you had a Tdap booster? Or are you going to prevent and/or treat pertussis with homeopathy? Something that has less effectiveness than water and sugar pills.

  3. May 4, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    Oh here we go with the personal attacks. No way in hell I’m getting a booster. And no I’d rather use vit C and then get comprehensive immunity and not become a carriere and fomite like you will after you’ve been vaccinated.

  4. May 4, 2012 at 7:21 pm

    And yes I”ve read the conclusion. Yay for you. Have you read any other parts of the paper including the tables? HOw is your cherry pie? Do you know that it is almost impossible to get an article published that says anythign negative about a vaccine unless you also say something supportive like that assinine conclusion?

  5. Chris
    May 4, 2012 at 7:23 pm

    Vitamin C is a time-tested and logical treatment for pertussis.

    I forgot: citation needed.

    It was because I was looking at this article about you, and was distracted. Especially by this bit:

    >Even so, it’s also probably irrelvant, because it’s the quality of one’s arguments that should rule, and, quite frankly, Dr. Humphries has become a homeopath. To embrace homeopathy, as far as I’m concerned, means throwing away all that knowledge of physics that tells us that homeopathy is nothing more than pseudoscience based on a mixture of prescientific beliefs drawing from the principles of sympathetic magic.

    And here is an article on your International Medical Council on Vaccination.

  6. Chris
    May 4, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    And no I’d rather use vit C and then get comprehensive immunity

    Citation needed. Please post the title, journal and dates of the PubMed indexed papers that show Vitamin C provides immunity to Bordetella pertussis.

  7. Lawrence
    May 4, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    @Dr Suzanne – you are a disgrace to the profession. Go ahead & keep drinking the Vit. C koolaid & see how it does against real diseases…..

    If you’re up to it, why don’t we see about infecting you with Rabies & see what your Vitamin C regimen does for it, if you dare…..put your health where you mouth is, as they say,

  8. lilady
    May 4, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    @ Dr. Susanne: You are a public health menace. Pertussis is a bacterial illness that requires a quick response to provide an antibiotic for the patient to decrease the period of time of infectivity..and also identification of contacts to provide prophylactic antibiotics to prevent actual disease.

    How dumb can you be Dr. Humphries and how much hubris do you possess to claim that Vitamin C, in lieu of a booster with Tdap vaccine is curative. Does you hospital affiliation in Maine, permit you to be on the premises without the booster Tdap vaccine, Dr. Susanne? Do you tell your vulnerable patients that you are in the anti-vaccine camp, thus putting them and their families at risk for this dreadful, sometimes deadly bacterial disease?

    The pertussis out break has been reported by various media outlets and here is my observation…as a public health nurse specializing in the epidemiology of vaccine-preventable diseases:

    “Regardless if they were vaccinated or not, the study revealed that the number of whooping cough cases peaked around the pre-teen ages. On average, the researchers aid there were 36 cases for every 10,000 children between 2-7 who were fully immunized that got whooping cough. The number goes up to 245 out of 10,000 with the kids between 8 and 12. That number dropped drastically after the kids reached 13, possibly because most people receive the booster shot at the age of 12.”

    These figures indicate that the pertussis incidence proportion 245/10,000 in fully immunized older children (ages 8 through 12) is more than six times the pertussis incidence proportion 36/10,000 in fully immunized younger children ages 2 through 7). Incidence proportion drops off dramatically after age 13…after most kids received the Tdap booster vaccine.

    This really is further proof that the recommendation from the ACIP, the CDC and the AAP to provide booster Tdap in early adolescence, does dramatically decrease disease prevalence while increasing herd immunity.

    Time to fold your tent Dr. Humphries…you are a dinosaur and an anachronism…when it comes to public health and modern medicine.

  9. kelly
    May 4, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    Oh yes, Suzanne and I have had this conversation before. (http://shotofprevention.com/2011/12/13/the-battle-against-whooping-cough-continues/#comment-5923)

    Vitamin C was found to be ineffective as a treatment for pertussis in 1938. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2210412/pdf/brmedj04218-0015.pdf). Way to keep up with the current literature, Suzanne.

    Still waiting for those references that show the effectiveness of vitamin C as a “time-tested and logical treatment for pertussis”. Last time we talked you promised me 10 papers that support your claim. Just the PMID reference numbers there, Suzanne. No need to respond with anything else.

  10. novalox
    May 4, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    Where in Chris’ response did she give a personal attack? From what I have seen, it has been use with the personal attacks, giving the old pharma shill gambit when asked for evidence.

    So, give us the evidence and citations, or be proven a liar.

  11. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    What a great post! If you are Dr. Suzanne Humphries, I included in a post here a couple of weeks ago a link to your article on vitamin C treatment for pertussis. I’m really thrilled to read your opinion on this issue here, as that of a well-educated and well-respected medical specialist, which supports what I”ve been saying here for the past few months.

  12. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    This is incorrect. Antibiotics do nothing to treat pertussis once the coughing has started, as by that point the coughing is caused by the toxins produced by the bacteria rather than the bacteria themselves. The toxins break off the cilia in the respiratory tract that usually work to push the mucus upward to be coughed out, which is why the coughing is so violent. You just have to wait for the cilia to grow back, antibiotics do nothing to make them grow faster. Lillady, you are the dinosaur who continues to believe antibiotics are effective in curing everything, an antiquated belief which is no longer promoted by most medical professionals, as it has led to antibiotic resistance due to overuse and is not effective anyway when used to combat viruses or to make cilia grow back faster. Antibiotics may be effective in preventing the development of pertussis after exposure, if given early enough, but they won’t do anything once coughing has started, but since they’re the only thing modern medicine has to throw at it, that’s what doctors do to make it look as though they were doing something useful. Homeopathy has worked for us, and if we were to get pertussis again, which we won’t for at least several decades as both I and my daughter had it in January through March 2002, so we are protected for at least the next several decades, but when and if we do we’ll alternate Pertudoron 1 and 2. If you want to dis homeopathy, that’s fine, I really don’t care if you get relief from it, as I”m sure you’ll recognize as an absolutely true statement.

  13. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    No way in hell either I or my daughter, both vaccine-damaged, will every get another vaccine either. We’d sit around for the rest of our lives struggling with new horrible auto-immune conditions, as though autism and MS weren’t bad enough.

  14. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Most health care professionals reject the Tdap or the flu vaccine for themselves, as they feel the authority of the hospital ends where their own body begins, and fear the adverse side effects of the vaccines. I prefer unvaccinated medical professionals, as it shows they have a little intellligence and show an ability to think outside the box.

  15. Chris
    May 6, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    You’ve been shown several times that vaccines do not cause auto-immune disorders. Please stop lying.

  16. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    I love Dr. Suzanne’s articles, and wish that she were our doctor. But since we have fearlessly toughed out chickenpox, whooping cough, and flu many times (and measles for me) we have healthy immune systems and never need to go to the doctor. I loved her article comparing vaccinationists to a weird religious cult. I wish all medical practices had to include on their sign whether they were human and humane doctors or roboshills.

  17. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    The dogs bark, the caravan moves on. I think your worship of St. Vaccinia is far more magical than the practice of homeopathy, which, since it works, must perforce be based on scientific principles. Science has not yet comprehended everything there is to comprehend. I’m sure you’ve seen the articles comparing doctors in white coats to priests in cassocks, vaccination of babies to baptism, vaccines to the Host. It’s the need of people to have a faith in an age which has by and large discarded religious belief, but not the need to have a faith in something comprehensive that will protect them and provide answers to their questions. To me the replacement of religious faith by modern medicine seems weird and very much conjured up by prescientific beliefs and the principles of sympathetic magic. Have you read the book The Age of Autism? Now that was weird, the young woman saying Oh, that painful spot on my leg is just where my ailing father rested his diseased leg while I rubbed mercury cream into his syphilitic sores. And Freud’s best, “scientific” response was: Oh, you have a mad incestuous desire for your father stemming from your screwed-up childhood. Very obvious. Using mercury to treat every ill known to man, and just dismissing all the horrible damage it did. “Scientists” still defending it as recently as ten years ago, as being harmless in vaccines, even though the amount injected routinely into babies was several hundred times over the FDA “safe” limit. Still defending it now in flu vaccines and in vaccines sold and used in other countries. The science is clearly on the side of not using mercury at all in anything that goes into the body, including dental fillings. But I’m sure you guys break open your old thermometers and swig it straight, to prove how harmless it is.

  18. Chris
    May 6, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    If you have a healthy immune system, why do you claim that vaccines gave you an auto-immune condition like MS?

  19. Chris
    May 6, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    Oh, no! More bad prose from Cia!

    Have you read the book The Age of Autism?

    A book written by an “investigative” journalist who could not find the cryptically named “Clinic for Special Children”, and a guy who has a Master’s in Business Administration. Both of whom think they know more biology than those who have actually have degrees in medicine.

  20. Kelly
    May 6, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    More lies, cia. Suzanne isn’t a “well-respected medical specialist”. She spreads dangerous misinformation for profit.

    Considering you have been lying on the blog for months, if Suzanne supports what you say, that also means you have been lying.

  21. Lawrence
    May 6, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    @cia – citation please.

  22. Kelly
    May 6, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    Strawman, cia. You are misrepresenting lilady’s statement. She didn’t say antibiotics treat pertussis. She said they are used to prevent the illness from being passed on to others.

    Homeopathy is just magic water. It does nothing but profit the homeopath.

    Pertudoron 1 and 2 contain the very toxic belladonna. Nothing like letting your kid get pertussis and then poisoning them with herbal remedy under the mistaken belief that it provides relief. The better approach would be to try to prevent the disease altogether with vaccination.

  23. Lawrence
    May 6, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    @cia – how about the rabies vaccine? You prepared to take a chance on the 98% + mortality rate?

  24. Kelly
    May 6, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    Citation for “most health care professionals”.

    It doesn’t take a whole lot of intelligence or a whole lot of thinking to quickly say “no” because you want to stick it to folks that have authority over you. My child old mastered the technique before the age of 2.

    I’d prefer a health care professional that has progressed intellectually passed the mindset of a toddler and remains current with the scientific literature, analyzes that literature and applies the knowledge to provide best care for their patients by vaccinating themselves. A little knowledge is all it takes to see the lies of the anti-vaccine movement.

  25. Chris
    May 6, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Except more and more of those health care providers will find themselves not being allowed in a hospital without a mask. So you really should provide a citation for your claim, since you have a reputation for just making stuff up.

    More on vaccines, with a story of a nurse spreading disease at the end:

    Oregon is one of only two states in the US that prohibits employers from requiring vaccines as a condition of employment. Our organization is actively working with colleagues throughout the state to try to change this.

  26. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    I knew it, they haven’t given the 7 to 12 year olds the pertussis vaccine up until now, they know it will cause a lot of severe reactions, that’s why they haven’t done it yet, but they’re working up to doing it now!

  27. Kelly
    May 6, 2012 at 8:50 pm

    No, cia. The Tdap has been recommended since 2006. The vaccine was reformulated to prevent severe reactions.

  28. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 9:11 pm

    Chris,
    I’m dizzy, fatigued, and have poor balance all the time, am nauseated a lot of the time. That’s the MS caused by vaccines, my own system attacking the myelin nerve endings in my brain. But I don’t get acutely sick very often, which is why I say I have a healthy immune system, the flu about once every two years, maybe two colds a year, and beyond that no allergies (except the myelin thing), no asthma. My daughter doesn’t either, she’s healthy as a horse, except for the autism, vaccine-caused. But staying away from drugs and vaccines (after our hard lesson) has given us pretty stable good health.

  29. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 9:23 pm

    Kelly,
    Give me a break. Homeopathy is not at all the same thing as herbal medicine. I think highly of herbal medicine as well, but I would not take snake venom under any circumstances, but would take the homeopathic remedy lachesis if I thought it were called for. All kinds of substances are used to make the remedies, but one part is mixed with ninety-nine parts water and shaken (succussed), then one part of that is taken out and mixed with 99 parts of water and shaken, then one part of that is taken, etc. etc. , until the desired potency is reached. There are often only a few molecules left of the original substance in the remedy, which is put into sugar and milk pellets, or prepared as a liquid remedy. In the highest potencies (the most powerful) there is nothing at all left of the physical substance, but it is thought that the succussing infuses the energy of the substance into the remedy. It is supposed to be like a tuning fork, and shows your body the energy vibration that would be healthier for it to align itself with. But, of course, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It has worked for me. It has worked for my daughter and my friends. If you don’t want to try it, I really don’t care at all.

  30. Kelly
    May 6, 2012 at 9:23 pm

    Once again, cia. Vaccines do not cause MS or autism. You are not vaccine injured. Please stop lying.

  31. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    Wearing a mask is probably a good idea, and it would be much preferable to getting a vaccine which might cause dangerous side effects, even death. The vaccine wouldn’t even necessarily give you immunity or prevent you from transmitting disease to someone else. Probably the wave of the future is going to be masks and gloves for everyone in hospitals, given out at the door. I would have no problem with that.

  32. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    Vaccine 30 (2012) 3151-3154. It’s just one article, I’ve seen a lot of articles on the lack of willingness of health care professionals to get vaccines themselves, but I’ve got other things to do, so I’ll just give you that one, about a large percentage of nurses in Haifa, Israel, refusing flu vaccine and DTaP.

  33. cia parker
    May 6, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    Here’s another one, from the Guardian. One third of nurses saying no to HINI vaccine, one third undecided, only one third clearly willing.
    By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor

    7:00PM BST 17 Aug 2009

    CommentsComment

    Frontline health and social care workers will be among the first to be vaccinated in October along with people with serious underlying health problems and pregnant women.

    However a survey by Nursing Times has found many frontline nurses have reservations.

    Only one in three said they are prepared to have the H1N1 vaccine with a third undecided and the rest saying no.

    Almost 1,500 nurses were polled, of whom 91 per cent said they were frontline.

    It comes after news that parents are also concerned about the vaccine, with worries predominantly about the safety of its contents, side effects, and the amount of testing that will be done.

  34. Kelly
    May 6, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    The vaccine has not been shown to cause death, cia. Please stop lying about vaccine side effects.

  35. Kelly
    May 6, 2012 at 10:19 pm

    Here is a link to the abstract – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22446637

    Interesting choice to make your point, cia, considering the reason for the nurses refusing the vaccine was because they were duped by the anti-vaccine lies like the ones you tell and not because they had a legitimate reason to refuse the vaccine.

  36. Chris
    May 6, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    Even though they have some medical education, does not meant they are not influenced by anti-vax propaganda. Exactly why health care centers are giving some of their employees these two choices:

    1. Get the vaccine to protect the patients.

    2. Find employment elsewhere.

    Am J Infect Control. 2012 Mar 29. [Epub ahead of print]
    Seasonal and H1N1 influenza vaccine compliance and intent to be vaccinated among emergency medical services personnel.

    Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol. 2012 Mar;33(3):243-9. Epub 2012 Jan 10.
    Seasonal influenza vaccine compliance among hospital-based and nonhospital-based healthcare workers.

    Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol. 2012 Mar;33(3):213-21. Epub 2012 Jan 19.
    Support for seasonal influenza vaccination requirements among US healthcare personnel.

    Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol. 2012 Jan;33(1):81-3. Epub 2011 Dec 7.
    Assessment of a mandatory tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis vaccination requirement on vaccine uptake over time.

    Our university hospital made employment conditional upon receipt of Tdap vaccine. Implementation for newly hired employees quickly resulted in complete compliance, but achieving adherence among current workers required setting a termination date for noncompliance.

    Infect Control Hosp Epidemiol. 2012 Jan;33(1):63-70. Epub 2011 Nov 22.
    Voluntary to mandatory: evolution of strategies and attitudes toward influenza vaccination of healthcare personnel.

    Vaccine. 2011 Nov 21;29(50):9398-403. Epub 2011 Sep 22.
    Increases in vaccination coverage of healthcare personnel following institutional requirements for influenza vaccination: a national survey of U.S. hospitals.

  37. Nathan
    May 6, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    Give me a break. Homeopathy is not at all the same thing as herbal medicine.

    You’re right. Herbs actually have a chance to cause an effect.

    In the highest potencies (the most powerful) there is nothing at all left of the physical substance, but it is thought that the succussing infuses the energy of the substance into the remedy.

    Wait, I have to read that again…

    there is nothing at all left of the physical substance, but it is thought that the succussing infuses the energy

    Those thinkers have some great imaginations.

  38. lilady
    May 7, 2012 at 12:02 am

    @ # 24 CIA Parker: Your comment is possibly the most fact-less rant that I have ever read.

    “This is incorrect. Antibiotics do nothing to treat pertussis once the coughing has started, as by that point the coughing is caused by the toxins produced by the bacteria rather than the bacteria themselves. The toxins break off the cilia in the respiratory tract that usually work to push the mucus upward to be coughed out, which is why the coughing is so violent. You just have to wait for the cilia to grow back, antibiotics do nothing to make them grow faster.”

    (Citation please)

    “Lillady, you are the dinosaur who continues to believe antibiotics are effective in curing everything, an antiquated belief which is no longer promoted by most medical professionals, as it has led to antibiotic resistance due to overuse and is not effective anyway when used to combat viruses or to make cilia grow back faster.”

    Cia Parker: B. Pertussis is a bacterium, not a virus. Medical professionals only prescribe antibiotics for a bacterial illnesses.

    “Antibiotics may be effective in preventing the development of pertussis after exposure, if given early enough, but they won’t do anything once coughing has started, but since they’re the only thing modern medicine has to throw at it, that’s what doctors do to make it look as though they were doing something useful.”

    (Citation please)

    Try to find some *beginner’s* courses in human anatomy/physiology, chemistry, bacteriology, virology, immunology and epidemiology, before you come posting here. You are only making a fool of yourself here.

    Here you go CIA, this is a pertussis fact sheet. Even an elementary school student would comprehend this simple fact sheet.

    http://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/pertussis/fact_sheet.htm

  39. Lawrence
    May 7, 2012 at 5:46 am

    @cia- wow, someone who believes in homeopathy and actually got the “process” right. Now go back and re-read what you wrote and tell me how on earth that makes any sense as a medical treatment?

    If water has a memory, how do you get out all of the other things the water has been in contact with?

    And that’s just the first, obvious question (of many) including the various violations of physicals laws that would need to occur for homeopathy to even begin to be correct.

    What you describe is diluting known poisons to the point where “NOTHING” of the original substance exists – yet this this the most powerful of treatments? You do realize you just admitted that homeopathic solutions are nothing but water, right?

    cia parker :
    Kelly,
    Give me a break. Homeopathy is not at all the same thing as herbal medicine. I think highly of herbal medicine as well, but I would not take snake venom under any circumstances, but would take the homeopathic remedy lachesis if I thought it were called for. All kinds of substances are used to make the remedies, but one part is mixed with ninety-nine parts water and shaken (succussed), then one part of that is taken out and mixed with 99 parts of water and shaken, then one part of that is taken, etc. etc. , until the desired potency is reached. There are often only a few molecules left of the original substance in the remedy, which is put into sugar and milk pellets, or prepared as a liquid remedy. In the highest potencies (the most powerful) there is nothing at all left of the physical substance, but it is thought that the succussing infuses the energy of the substance into the remedy. It is supposed to be like a tuning fork, and shows your body the energy vibration that would be healthier for it to align itself with. But, of course, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It has worked for me. It has worked for my daughter and my friends. If you don’t want to try it, I really don’t care at all.

  40. Chris
    May 7, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Why do you think insults are a valid substitute for scientific evidence?

    And asking Cia to stop lying is not an insult, it is a simple request that she cease posting false information.

  41. Christine Vara
    May 7, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Chris’ comment above was in response to another comment that has since been removed due to vulgar and inappropriate language which will not be tolerated here.

  42. May 8, 2012 at 1:03 am

    Lilady says:

    Cia Parker: B. Pertussis is a bacterium, not a virus. Medical professionals only prescribe antibiotics for a bacterial illnesses.

    Hahahaha. You’re an idiot. Maybe you should get one of those beginner textbooks so you’ll stop looking like the fool.

    http://www.acponline.org/patients_families/diseases_conditions/antibiotic_resistance/

    The improper use and abuse of antibiotics has led to the development of antibiotic resistance. The most common misuse and abuse of antibiotics are:

    Physicians prescribing antibiotics for viral infections

  43. lilady
    May 8, 2012 at 2:17 am

    Mr. Schecter you only think you know about childhood diseases and the vaccines that prevent them.

    Mr. Schecter has a blog and a Facebook page which “attracts” the anti-vaccine crowd who are just as ignorant in science as he is. When he posts on science and medicine blogs with his factoids, he gets quickly disabused. He is a scientist wannabe whose college degree is in “fire sciences”.

    I suggest that you Mr. Schecter, trade in one of your old college textbooks for some grammar school science books.

  44. Chris
    May 8, 2012 at 10:35 am

    Anti-bacterial resistance is another reason why prevention with the Dtap and Tdap is better than the alternative.

  45. May 8, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Hey all. I had nearly forgotten about you. But this article came to my attention today so I decided to pay you another visit. I see the den of serpents has gotten upset and heated…

    http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/states-ending-free-parent-whooping-vaccine/story-e6frfku0-1226350174856

    “He said the national Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee (PBAC) had determined vaccinating parents was not effective in protecting newborns, after two pharmaceutical manufacturers made submissions to the PBAC.

    “The PBAC, which is totally independent and very expert, has determined that there is no clinical effectiveness of this strategy,” Professor Brook said.
    He said this had made it clear the cocooning strategy should not be continued.

    “So all jurisdictions who have been in this program will be effectively ceasing the cocooning strategy as of the end of June this year.”

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/states-ending-free-parent-whooping-vaccine/story-e6frfku0-1226350174856#ixzz1uIV82CAX

    So, here I ask you this…If it is not effective in adults why will it work in children?

    And it you have not seen the debate that occurred on “Inside Vaccines” facebook page, your skeptics conceded that herd immunity does not happen with pertussis vaccine.

    Cheerio, and thanks Cia. But I caution you not to hurt yourself over here. Lots of jagged edges and brick walls that will not listen to reason even as their children deteriorate in front of their eyes. Sickos.

  46. cia parker
    May 8, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    How about this news? Australia is discontinuing its cocooning program of pushing pertussis vaccine for adults to protect newborns, as it says the vaccine has proven to be clinically ineffective in protecting them. Chris Brook, executive director of the (Australian) Department of Health says that as of June 30 the vaccine will no longer be offered for fee to adults as it has been until now in every state except Tasmania.
    I think that all people worried about infants getting pertussis should shift to thinking of ways to promote and enable quarantining babies at home for their first four to six months, maybe parents should wear masks and gloves if there’s pertussis in town during those months. The vaccine simply isn’t effective, while it is dangerous.

  47. cia parker
    May 8, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Sorry for being repetitious, I just saw that Dr. Suzanne had posted about the same news.

  48. cia parker
    May 8, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Sorry, I didn’t follow this. I knew that antibiotics are only effective for bacterial illnesses, and that pertussis is a bacterial illness. But I also know that antibiotics are not effective in treating pertussis once the coughing starts, as the coughing is a reaction to the effects of a toxin produced, and not by the bacteria themselves. What did I say different?

  49. Chris
    May 8, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    The first sentence in the blog article above is “We already know that there is a pertussis epidemic in Washington State. But here’s the update today.”

    Now, we know that there is a state in Australia with the abbreviation of “WA”, but that stands for Western Australia, not Washington. The political decisions by states in Australia have no bearing on the decisions made in a state in the USA.

    Perhaps you can find the PubMed indexed papers that the Australian states are using to support their decisions. That would be much more helpful. While you are at it, perhaps you should show with real scientific documentation solutions the state of Washington should pursue to quell the rise of pertussis instead of (quoting above again):

    The Secretary of Health Mary Selecky and State Senator Maria Cantwell plan to ask the CDC to send investigators and epidemiologists to help the state study and contain the epidemic which will assist state health officials with their response and identify why the epidemic is growing so quickly.

    And again, please do not use news reports but limit your scientific documentation to title, journal and date of relevant PubMed indexed papers. The papers must show that your suggestion actually worked.

  50. Kelly
    May 8, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Hey, Suzanne.

    Could you explain what was meant by “not effective in protecting newborns”? Not effective, how?

    For example, it may be that vaccinating women postpartum is not effective because the antibody response develops too late to protect the newborn. These studies suggest that vaccination before or during pregnancy might be a better strategy. This would not imply that the vaccine itself does not work, but the timing of administration of the vaccine is what doesn’t work.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21206396

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21272845

    And speaking of ineffective, I’m still waiting for the citations that show treating pertussis with vitamin C is effective and safe.

  51. Kelly
    May 8, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    Could you explain why the cocooning program is clinically ineffective? That information is vitally important in order to critically evaluate that statement. You know, actually thinking for yourself instead of just repeating what your read in a newspaper.

    Perhaps you could provide a citation that shows quarantine is effective in preventing pertussis, cia? Or how about even explaining how this would even be feasible for families to have no contact with the outside world for more than 6 months? You have mentioned that your daughter got pertussis when she was 9 months old and very ill for months. Why didn’t you practice what you preach and quarantine her? What age do you think it is safer for children to suffer from pertussis than get a vaccine to prevent the disease?

    Please stop lying about the vaccine being dangerous and ineffective, cia. You know that statement is not true.

  52. lilady
    May 8, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Hey Suzanne and CIA Parker: The funding stream to end free vaccines against pertussis through the Australian cocooning program, was set to “sunset” after June 30, 2012.

    Why didn’t you link to this website, which provides additional information about the difficulties of provided the free vaccine to older household contacts and caregivers?

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/vaccine-cutback-worries-doctors-20120508-1yb9q.html

    Here are the opinions from some REAL doctors, not crank naturopaths:

    “But the president of the Victorian branch of the Australian Medical Association, Dr Harry Hemley, said he was concerned the move would put some parents off the vaccine, which costs about $44.

    ”Whilst the rates of pertussis infections are going down, it would be wise to continue the subsidy of this program for the carers and parents of newborns until they reach pre-epidemic levels,” he said.

    Ivanhoe GP Peter Eizenberg, who has worked on government immunisation committees, said he was extremely concerned about the cut because he was still seeing families with whooping cough. ”There are still very high levels of pertussis in the community,” he said.

    The deputy director of Melbourne University’s vaccine and immunisation research group, Jodie McVernon, said vaccination programs for parents did not work well because they were difficult to implement and did not protect babies from other unvaccinated adults they would come into contact with.

    ”We can’t say this is the best way to spend money to protect babies … but that doesn’t mean at an individual level parents shouldn’t do it to protect their child,” Associate Professor McVernon said.”

    Let me repeat what Dr. McVernon said…the cocooning immunization was not a failure in instances where all older siblings who came into contact with a newborn…but rather failed when unimmunized adults came into contact with the infant.

    Suzanne, you are still a public health menace and your colleague CIA Parker is still lying.

  53. lilady
    May 8, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    (Correction of my posting above) Paragraph should read:

    Let me repeat what Dr. McVernon said…the cocooning immunization PROGRAM was not a failure in instances where all older siblings AND ALL ADULTS who came into contact with a newborn WERE IMMUNIZED…but rather failed when unimmunized adults came into contact with the infant.

  54. lilady
    May 8, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    Here’s a report on the transmission of pertussis to newborns and the program to implement “cocooning” in Australia:

    http://www.agpn.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/2673/242713.pdf

    “…In 2006, adults over 20 years of age, accounted for 90 % of the 11,000 (pertussis) notifications…”

    (Source: Communicable Disease Network Australia. National Notifiable Diseases Surveillance Network)

    “…In one Australian study, mothers were found to be the primary source of whooping cough infections in hospitalized infants, accounting for 42 % of the cases….”

    (Source: Pichichero, ME, et al. Expert Rev Vaccines 2006;5 (2): 175-187

  55. cia parker
    May 8, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    But the reason they’re cancelling the vaccine program is that their studies have shown that the vaccine just doesn’t work to prevent pertussis, so they’re doing the only sensible thing. It really doesn’t matter if adults are transmitting pertussis to infants if the vaccine just doesn’t work, but it means that infants should be kept in quarantine and maybe even the parents should use gloves and masks if pertussis is around when they’re very small. Pushing everyone to get a vaccine that doesn’t work (and does a lot of harm) benefits only the medical professionals.

  56. cia parker
    May 8, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    Thank you to whomever it was whose comment was taken down, who was apparently defending me. I just ignore the insults, and think it’s important to continue to tell the truth as well as I am able.

  57. cia parker
    May 8, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    It’s considered to be energetic medicine, and I don’t think anyone really understands why it works. It’s enough for me that sometimes it does. It’s hard to get it right, but it’s cheap, and it often works, so why not? It’s definitely worked for me several times.

  58. Kelly
    May 8, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    No, cia. Another lie. According to the article Lilady linked, they are cancelling the program because it was “difficult to implement and did not protect babies from other unvaccinated adults they would come into contact with.”, not because the vaccine didn’t work. (emphasis mine)

    And you continue to lie about how the vaccine “does a lot of harm”.

    If you think it is important to tell the truth, then why do you continue to lie? Are you unable to tell truth, which is why everything you say is a lie?

    And you haven’t answered my questions. How would it be possible to quarantine an infant from all unvaccinated adults? At what age would you suppose it is safer to get pertussis then to get the vaccine to prevent the disease?

  59. lilady
    May 8, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    @ CIA Parker: Did you read my last last three posts with the opinions of real doctors, not naturopaths? Did you miss the two case surveillance studies I also provided?;

    “…In 2006, adults over 20 years of age, accounted for 90 % of the 11,000 (pertussis) notifications…”

    (Source: Communicable Disease Network Australia. National Notifiable Diseases Surveillance Network)

    “…In one Australian study, mothers were found to be the primary source of whooping cough infections in hospitalized infants, accounting for 42 % of the cases….”

    (Source: Pichichero, ME, et al. Expert Rev Vaccines 2006;5 (2): 175-187

    Do I need to connect the dots for you, CIA?

    Basically…

    The risks to newborns for contracting pertussis, is minimal with exposure to a young fully immunized child.

    The risks to newborns for contracting pertussis is increased, with exposure to older children who have completed the primary series of pertussis, due to waning immunity…hence the recommendation for a Dtap “booster” vaccine in early adolescence.

    The risks to newborns for contracting pertussis from exposure to an adult who has not received a Dtap “booster” is exceptionally high.

    Jeez…stop posting your inanities here.

  60. Lawrence
    May 8, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    @cia – “nothing” works sometimes as well, which is exactly the same thing as “homeopathy” – it isn’t anything but water. You are talking about something that, if it worked as described, would violate several physical laws – and since you admit it can’t be understood or tested, you really are full of it.

  61. Chris
    May 8, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    He was not defending you, as he did not mention your name. He did call a couple of persons a rude colloquialism relating to female anatomy, ending with a wish they would have a fatal encounter with a motor vehicle.

    You need better friends. And you also need to stop lying.

  62. October 13, 2012 at 3:21 am

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